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Drew Doughty's Comments on Phoenix/Vancouver (mod warning #185)

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03-21-2013, 03:15 PM
  #176
vanwest
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I went through the first 9 games of the season, and I reviewed EVERY even strength goal scored while Doughty was on the ice and posted them there.

There's no cherry picking.
Sure there is. You need to pick every time his goalies bailed him out when he made a mistake.

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03-21-2013, 03:18 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Sure there is. You need to pick every time his goalies bailed him out when he made a mistake.
no i think its your job to provide those since that is your counter-claim.

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03-21-2013, 03:19 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Sure there is. You need to pick every time his goalies bailed him out when he made a mistake.
What part of "EVERY GOAL" did you miss?

Quick played awful to start the season, and he wasn't bailing out anyone. Doughty is the one who was bailing out the goalies.

Judging by your quick response, I'm guessing you didn't bother to watch the clips I posted.

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03-21-2013, 03:21 PM
  #179
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no i think its your job to provide those since that is your counter-claim.
Ok, give me a few days while I go through every Kings game and I'll report back.
Or how about I just post this as a shortcut from an article by an LA writer who is obviously a big Doughty fan and a quote from Sutter too:

"In the Kings’ first ten games, Doughty contributed just four assists, and one might expect more than just four points in ten games from a former James Norris Memorial Trophy candidate. However, the more glaring number was that he had a -10 plus/minus rating.

A big reason for that was that Doughty committed numerous turnovers and was guilty of more than his share of blatant coverage mistakes in the defensive zone.

“We expect a lot out of [Doughty],” said head coach Darryl Sutter told the media following a 3-0 loss at Nashville on February 7. “He has to, clearly, play better in his own zone.”

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03-21-2013, 03:25 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Ok, give me a few days while I go through every Kings game and I'll report back.
Or how about I just post this as a shortcut from an article by an LA writer who is obviously a big Doughty fan and a quote from Sutter too:

"In the Kings’ first ten games, Doughty contributed just four assists, and one might expect more than just four points in ten games from a former James Norris Memorial Trophy candidate. However, the more glaring number was that he had a -10 plus/minus rating.

A big reason for that was that Doughty committed numerous turnovers and was guilty of more than his share of blatant coverage mistakes in the defensive zone.

“We expect a lot out of [Doughty],” said head coach Darryl Sutter told the media following a 3-0 loss at Nashville on February 7. “He has to, clearly, play better in his own zone.”
Since I posted the videos of every one of those goals, you can see that the writer is full of ****.

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03-21-2013, 03:25 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
What part of "EVERY GOAL" did you miss?

Quick played awful to start the season, and he wasn't bailing out anyone. Doughty is the one who was bailing out the goalies.

Judging by your quick response, I'm guessing you didn't bother to watch the clips I posted.
I've already posted what the LA writer and your own coach said about his defensive play in the first part of the season.

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03-21-2013, 03:25 PM
  #182
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Doughty is a goof. He can be very immature - most Kings fans are honest enough to admit this. However, he's grown up a lot - the Phoenix tantrum was the worst thing he's done in a long time - over the past few years. In fact, Doughty's composure throughout 99% of the playoffs last year was instrumental in our Cup win.

I'm fine with the hate - he deserves it for the most part. But anyone would love him if he was on their team.

Oh, and this discussion has morphed into another BS "is Doughty good at hockey or not" argument? I'll just repost this:

Just to clarify how dominant Doughty's 11/12 playoff performance was, here's a side by side comparison with other major performances from top defensemen en route to a Cup over the past few years:

2008

Niklas Lidstrom
22 games played
3-10-13, 0.59 points-per-game
+8
26:48 avg TOI

Brian Rafalski
22 games played
4-10-14, 0.63 points per game
+6
24:53 avg TOI

Niklas Kronwall
22 games played
0-15-15, 0.68 points per game
+16
23:19 avg TOI

2007

Chris Pronger
19 games played
3-12-15, 0.78 points per game
+10
30:11 avg TOI

Scott Neidermayer
21 games played
3-8-11, 0.52 points per game
+2
29:50 avg TOI

2011

Zdeno Chara
24 games played
2-7-9, 0.37 points per game
+16
27:39 avg TOI

2012

Drew Doughty
20 games played
4-12-16, 0.80 points per game
+11
26:08 avg TOI

That gives you some semblance of an idea of just how dominant Doughty was in the playoffs. He's not almost PPG in his playoff career by accident. He elevates his play tremendously when it matters most, which is why he's stacked up the hardware playing pivotal roles for his teams in his very young career. People get caught up in regular season numbers and forget that the playoffs is where everyone gets to see players at their absolute best, against the absolute best.

Doughty averaged more points and goals than every defenseman on this list (sans Rafalski in 2008, who scored the same amount of goals, but not points) despite playing less games than everyone on the list except for Pronger in 2007. Doughty also put up a better plus minus than everyone on the list in less games outside of Chara in 2011 and Kronwall in 2008, who received somewhat sheltered minutes playing behind Lidstrom and Rafalski. Moreover, Doughty's TOI is right up there in the high twenties, as befitting a number one defenseman. Pronger and Neids averaged significantly more minutes in 2007, but Doughty's TOI is right in line with everyone else.

Drew was a lock for the Conn Smythe if Quick hadn't literally broken the save percentage and goals against average records along the way, in addition to carrying the team throughout the beginning of the regular season, which was surely still in the mind of voters. But ask anyone who watched the Kings Cup run and they'll tell you that the defense made Quick's job fairly easy, of which Doughty played no small role. He played in every situation and was the #1 guy on the blue line by far.

You don't get much better than that at the highest level of play. So yes, Doughty should still be considered elite.

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03-21-2013, 03:28 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I've already posted what the LA writer and your own coach said about his defensive play in the first part of the season.
I can post actual stats and videos and tangible evidence all day long, but it won't matter to you.

Haters gonna hate.

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03-21-2013, 03:30 PM
  #184
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We have been through this before anyone who posts that embellishment city video will be threadbanned and infracted

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Old
03-21-2013, 03:32 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I can post actual stats and videos and tangible evidence all day long, but it won't matter to you.

Haters gonna hate.
Not a hater. He's a great defenceman who got off to a poor defensive start according to his own coach and a LA writer who obvioulsy is a big fan of his.
You are blaming all his struggles on poor goaltending and post 10 videos to prove it.
Like I said, I am sure that there are times when Quick and Bernier have bailed him out. In fact, I suspect that Doughty would acknowledge that he got off to a poor start and wouldn't blame his golaies.
I think that you're being too defensive and not being objective.

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Old
03-21-2013, 03:32 PM
  #186
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The first few years of his career he did whine quite a bit if he didn't get the calls. I think he's improved as of late (not saying he still doesn't go off on occasion).

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03-21-2013, 03:36 PM
  #187
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Funny how when a player complains about a call he's a crybaby but when he's on your team he's pointed out the stupidity of the refs

I am enjoying this LA/VAN rivalry though. Makes way more sense than the VAN/TOR rivalry that seemed to be built on the Sundin trade.

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03-21-2013, 03:55 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Not a hater. He's a great defenceman who got off to a poor defensive start according to his own coach and a LA writer who obvioulsy is a big fan of his.
You are blaming all his struggles on poor goaltending and post 10 videos to prove it.
Like I said, I am sure that there are times when Quick and Bernier have bailed him out. In fact, I suspect that Doughty would acknowledge that he got off to a poor start and wouldn't blame his golaies.
I think that you're being too defensive and not being objective.
I'm trying to be objective. That is why I posted the videos of every even strength goal scored on him during the first nine games of the year. I was hoping that you would watch them and be objective as well.

Instead, you are taking the words of a blogger who wants readership and a coach known for good soundbites and saying what it takes to motivate players, and taking those as fact without looking at the evidence in front of you.

It's easy to look at the -10 after the first handful of games and assume he was playing poorly. I believe that's what the blogger did.

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03-21-2013, 03:57 PM
  #189
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I much prefer this to the old "They're a tough team to play against, we have to give 100% and take it one game at a time" cliches over and over again.

He got asked a question directly. He gave his opinion, and complimented both teams he also took a little shot at. I wish all players would be more honest like this. Then we could make threads about the clearly insane ones. Good times.

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03-21-2013, 04:00 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
I'm trying to be objective. That is why I posted the videos of every even strength goal scored on him during the first nine games of the year. I was hoping that you would watch them and be objective as well.

Instead, you are taking the words of a blogger who wants readership and a coach known for good soundbites and saying what it takes to motivate players, and taking those as fact without looking at the evidence in front of you.
It's easy to look at the -10 after the first handful of games and assume he was playing poorly. I believe that's what the blogger did.
I'm taking two objective people's opinions or rather people who view Doughty positively. I understand why you want to defend Doughty but it's not like I'm saying that Doughty is not an elite defenceman. I believe my views will also be shared in the Norris voting by people who presumably also are objective. We'll see who is right.

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03-21-2013, 04:02 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Shepard View Post
So much ignorance in this post. Tippett calls out his team when he feels they put out a crap effort.
And when they lose when they put out a good effort, he will whine from time to time. His litrle rant the other night about how they should have won the game but didnt and flowing into the weak call excuse was an example. He calls a legit penalty a weak call while totally ignoring the blown call that led to them getting back in the game as well as multiple no calls.

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03-21-2013, 04:06 PM
  #192
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I don't understand the correlation of how good or bad a player is and whether he whines or not. Good and bad players generally get told to cut it out if it becomes a distraction or they grow up and stop doing it.

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03-21-2013, 04:17 PM
  #193
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Stil ldon't understand how Doughty didn't get an additional 2 for unsportsmanlike for his tirade.

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03-21-2013, 04:23 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Stil ldon't understand how Doughty didn't get an additional 2 for unsportsmanlike for his tirade.
He deserved it, but because it was OT in the playoffs, they probably eased up.

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03-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #195
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I don't understand the correlation of how good or bad a player is and whether he whines or not. Good and bad players generally get told to cut it out if it becomes a distraction or they grow up and stop doing it.
Gretzky was still "whining" about referees in the late 90s. The job of a captain/veteran leader is to talk to the referees and try to get favour on calls.

Half of what is being claimed as whining is heat of the moment emotion on calls they thought were not correct or unhappiness with calls. That isn't whining. Mike Richards/Brad Marchand talking about Subban was whining.

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03-21-2013, 04:36 PM
  #196
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I know many of you guys say the Canucks whine and dive but when you whine about someone else who whines its kind of ironic, eh?
That's exactly what I thought when I saw this thread . You're just doing exactly what you're getting on Doughty's case for. You may argue that you're not whining, that you're just calling out someone else for whining, but that's what Doughty was doing in that quote. Either you're both whining or you're both not. Either way, it's a bit hypocritical, to be honest.

Frankly, I'm tired of this term, "whine." It's a pejorative, intending to disparage, rather than describe. It can just as easily be replaced with "complain." They're interchangeable, except that someone decides to use "whine" when he wants to stick it to the person and make him look especially bad. It's all spin. In your eyes, it's simply "complaining" if you do it, but "whining" if others do it, and, in others' eyes, it's "whining" if you do it and simply "complaining" if they do it. It's all a game to make others look worse than you (and you look better for ostensibly being above the behavior, yourself) and is rather immature. Yes, Doughty is immature for playing the "whine" game, but half of the people on this board are just as immature for playing the same game and really have no business getting after him or any other player for it. It's funny how players who complain get called "whiners" by the same fans who spend so much of their own time complaining about refs, coaches, GMs, rules, schedules and whatnot. Maybe it should be the other way around .


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03-21-2013, 04:47 PM
  #197
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Not a hater. He's a great defenceman who got off to a poor defensive start according to his own coach and a LA writer who obvioulsy is a big fan of his.
There are many more quotes from Sutter defending his play early in the season, and just recently he said "Drew’s been awesome. I can pick three or four mistakes out all year. Literally." So that blows through the coach argument.

Next you take one sentence by a writer with a rather simplistic take on Doughty's plus/minus turnaround, and hold it up as God's own truth. Goaltending and bad bounces were factors, as you can see from the videos.

Doughty was logging heavy even strength minutes when Quick struggled due to his back injury -- in fact Quick still has one of the worst save percentages for a starter this year. Every advanced stat person looked at Doughty's on-ice save percentage and said the plus/minus stat was being made too much of, and that it was bound to turn around. Lo and behold, it did.

The burden is on you to prove your claim. Couldn't it be you who dislikes this player so much that it leads you to be less objective? You've received good counter arguments from those who watch Doughty's games and break down plays.

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03-21-2013, 04:51 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
Frankly, I'm tired of this term, "whine." It's a pejorative, intending to disparage, rather than describe. It can just as easily be replaced with "complain." They're interchangeable, except that someone decides to use "whine" when he wants to stick it to the person and make him look especially bad. It's all spin. In your eyes, it's simply "complaining" if you do it and "whining" if others do it, and, in others' eyes, it's "whining" if you do it and simply "complaining" if they do it. It's all a game to make others look worse than you (and you look better for ostensibly being above the behavior, yourself) and is rather immature. Yes, Doughty is immature for playing the "whine" game, but half of the people on this board are just as immature for playing the same game and really have no business getting after him or any other player for it.
This. I was thinking about posting something like this. It doesn't help that we associate whining with children.

Additionally, I also don't consider the passionate outbursts Doan, Smith, Doughty, and others have had on the ice as "whining." Whining is an ongoing, low-intensity complaint. Losing your cool over a perceived outrage, or even because you hate to lose, isn't admirable - but it isn't whining.

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03-21-2013, 05:00 PM
  #199
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He's just exposing them for what they really are

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03-21-2013, 05:09 PM
  #200
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This is how Drew reminds them of what they are really are




#nickelback


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