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Evgeny Kuznetsov to Detroit

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Old
03-20-2013, 01:42 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Hard to gauge honestly. Prob Smith + Tatar + 1st or something. Kuznetsov is one of those players that I can see developing much better in Detroit than in Washington, especially if he gets a year to play with Datsyuk.

What's the deal with Detroit drafting Ferraros, Sheehans, etc. in the first rounds these days?
Ferraro was a 2nd round pick, Sheahan was our last 1st round pick, all of 2 years ago. I'm not sure what you mean by "drafting Sheahans, etc." but the wings normally take a relatively safe player in the first, Sheahan even if his offense never came along like it has would have made it to the NHL in a bottom six role due to his size and defensive awareness.

While last year you could have said they both looked like disappointments this season has been a breakout year for both of them. They've both found their offense and in Ferraro's case appears to have the potential to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener in the mold of Cleary, Sheahan still has the #2 center potential or he could end up and Elite 3rd line center.

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03-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
Ferraro was a 2nd round pick, Sheahan was our last 1st round pick, all of 2 years ago. I'm not sure what you mean by "drafting Sheahans, etc." but the wings normally take a relatively safe player in the first, Sheahan even if his offense never came along like it has would have made it to the NHL in a bottom six role due to his size and defensive awareness.

While last year you could have said they both looked like disappointments this season has been a breakout year for both of them. They've both found their offense and in Ferraro's case appears to have the potential to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener in the mold of Cleary, Sheahan still has the #2 center potential or he could end up and Elite 3rd line center.
Ferraro was basically a late 1st, he was picked from a 1st that was traded 3 spots down so they'd have effectively picked him either way I imagine.

Wings seem to be drafting safe boring players with tweener upside that don't amount to anything with their earliest picks recently. There was McCollum too I believe. Their later picks look much better. Given that Detroit is lauded as a drafting superpower I just found that strategy a bit strange. Breakout or not, compared to other players drafted in that area they don't look like solid picks.

Just reminded of it since Kuznetsov was taken 2 or 3 spots behind Sheahan.

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03-20-2013, 02:36 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Ferraro was basically a late 1st, he was picked from a 1st that was traded 3 spots down so they'd have effectively picked him either way I imagine.

Wings seem to be drafting safe boring players with tweener upside that don't amount to anything with their earliest picks recently. There was McCollum too I believe. Their later picks look much better. Given that Detroit is lauded as a drafting superpower I just found that strategy a bit strange. Breakout or not, compared to other players drafted in that area they don't look like solid picks.

Just reminded of it since Kuznetsov was taken 2 or 3 spots behind Sheahan.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that part, I don't want to derail this thread but looking at who was drafted after Ferraro I would trade him for only O'Reilly or Silfverberg, he was coming off a 37 goal season and was one of the fastest players in the draft, he also had one of the best releases in the draft as well. Nobody could have predicted the injuries that would follow him the rest of his junior career, the fact that he is now looked on again in a positive light is an accomplishment by itself.

Sheahan filled a few needs for the wings:
1) a center with top 6 potential
2) he had size
3) he was already good defensively, a very mature player (on the ice)
4) safe bet to make the NHL

So with all of that in mind, and with the power of hindsight I would only take Kuznetsov over him, and that's assuming he does come in the next 2 years, maybe Nelson as well. There is nobody else picked after him that you couldn't make the case that Sheahan is better then them.

The other thing is by going "safe" it allows them to go for the home run picks, so the next pick after Ferraro was Tatar, the pick after Sheahan was Jarnkrok. So while playing it safe may not always work there is no way of knowing whether or not the wings even were considering taking Kuznetsov anyways, as we all know that he was a top 10 talent but the Russian factor affected him so he slid. Washington was willing to take the risk and it paid off for them, though he hasn't yet dawned their sweater so he he hasn't really helped them either.

Edit: About McCollum; it came down to the wings picking either McCollum or Markstrom, they were taking a goalie at 30th overall regardless and both guys were #1 for their NA/Europe. The OHL scout said that McCollum was the real deal, ya da ya da. When Holland asked about Markstrom Hakan said he doesn't know much about goalies or he can't evaluate them well or something to that elk. Holland went with the OHL scout and we picked McCollum, the scout did make up for it though by getting Mrazek.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Hard to gauge honestly. Prob Smith + Tatar + 1st or something. Kuznetsov is one of those players that I can see developing much better in Detroit than in Washington, especially if he gets a year to play with Datsyuk.

What's the deal with Detroit drafting Ferraros, Sheehans, etc. in the first rounds these days?
Ferraro had a LOT of injuries, so that was really just bad luck. Sheahan isn't a blue-chipper, but he's looking pretty good. He also has the biggest thing our prospect pool lacks, in size.

The best example of a crap first round pick by us would be McCollum.

And I wouldn't do Smith/Tatar/First. I understand that Kuznetsov is a blue-chip and he'll likely step in an instantly be a star, but the value isn't there for me.

That's a blue liner with likely Top 2 potential, and guy who (IMO) could and should be in the top 6 right NOW, and a 1st that might be pretty high for us if we don't figure out basic concepts such as Justin Abdelkader isn't a first liner.

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Old
03-20-2013, 04:36 PM
  #30
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Hakan Andersson talks to the foreign kids in person about their desire to come to this side of the pond. They drafted Marchenko for just this reason as a potential 7th round steal, because he is firm on wanting to play in North America.

My feeling going into to the draft from the rumors out there was the Wings thought Kuznetsov wasn't a sure thing to ever show up in North America. He still isn't. While many have railed against Sheahan over Kuznetsov, until he nears coming over that was still a very responsible pick. Riley has had a great rookie pro season on the ice. He never fails to impress when you turn on Griffins games and he provides a lot to the system. Not to mention without Sheahan I don't know that they take the chance on Jarnkrok which is a very big pick for them moving forward. They might have taken the #1 and #2 centers back to back there. Similar to how they grabbed Ouellet and then Sproul in back to back picks who should be top 4 D-man in the next draft.

By the way I think their dream pick was Bjugstad falling two more selections.

In any event Washington is best to hold on to Kuznetsov, he is the best player currently not in the NHL and I mean that over Radulov. It is tough to get his value, if he doesn't show up in 2014 then you sell him for cheap. Right now they should rightfully ask for more than anybody should give up for a guy that nobody knows will come. They are just going to have to hold on to him.

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Old
03-20-2013, 06:19 PM
  #31
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Imagine the Wings going from Yzerman/Federov to Datysuk/Zetterberg to Kuznetov/Jarnrok.

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03-20-2013, 06:38 PM
  #32
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I would trade Nyquist, Oulette, Ferraro and a 1st in a heartbeat for Kuznetsov.

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03-20-2013, 07:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I know it's a pipe dream and probably will never happen, but what would it take to get Kunznetsov to Detroit? He's exactly what Detroit needs when they transition into the post-Datsyuk era - which will probably occur in 2014/2015. And if he came over to NA next year he could learn under Datsyuk for one season.

In a trade like this basically nothing would be off-limits. I'd give up a lot for the kid - just want to see if anything is remotely possible.
Unfortunately, Kuznetsov has one more year left on his deal with Traktor after this year and he wants to honor it (at least that's what he's said, but he says a lot of things). It's nice to see an open mind but as much as he could be what Detroit needs, he's everything that Washington needs: skill, speed, drive, excitement, youth. The Caps shouldn't give Kuznetsov up for anything.

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03-21-2013, 09:03 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Adityase View Post
I would trade Nyquist, Oulette, Ferraro and a 1st in a heartbeat for Kuznetsov.
Probably why you aren't the GM.

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03-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #35
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Kuznetsov is going to be a stud...more so under direction from Dats than Ovi, I suspect.

BUT I suspect Detroit might be better off tanking and getting a good draft pick. Considering the team is primarily built with toss-away picks, I shudder to think what they'd do with a few years of top-10 picks.

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03-21-2013, 09:22 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sokocanuck View Post
Kuznetsov is going to be a stud...more so under direction from Dats than Ovi, I suspect.

BUT I suspect Detroit might be better off tanking and getting a good draft pick. Considering the team is primarily built with toss-away picks, I shudder to think what they'd do with a few years of top-10 picks.
Even with high picks you still won't see them for five years lol.

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03-21-2013, 09:34 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
he said hes coming over next season after KHL contract is done.
This is partially correct. He is coming over AFTER the Sochi Olympics which is also when his contract is over. Apparently, it sounds like he isn't sure if the NHL is going to let their players play in the Olympics (Source below). My take is that he still doesn't come over and backs out....again.

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...ochi-olympics/

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03-21-2013, 10:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Animus View Post
This is partially correct. He is coming over AFTER the Sochi Olympics which is also when his contract is over. Apparently, it sounds like he isn't sure if the NHL is going to let their players play in the Olympics (Source below). My take is that he still doesn't come over and backs out....again.

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...ochi-olympics/
When was the first time?

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03-21-2013, 10:14 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Ferraro had a LOT of injuries, so that was really just bad luck. Sheahan isn't a blue-chipper, but he's looking pretty good. He also has the biggest thing our prospect pool lacks, in size.

The best example of a crap first round pick by us would be McCollum.

And I wouldn't do Smith/Tatar/First. I understand that Kuznetsov is a blue-chip and he'll likely step in an instantly be a star, but the value isn't there for me.

That's a blue liner with likely Top 2 potential, and guy who (IMO) could and should be in the top 6 right NOW, and a 1st that might be pretty high for us if we don't figure out basic concepts such as Justin Abdelkader isn't a first liner.
I was gonna originally say Smith + Nyqvist + 2nd/3rd but thought the other might be more palatable.

I can understand Detroit not wanting to overpay, especially before Kuznetsov comes over and proves himself on small ice. Washington can't really afford to give him up on the cheap since they need wingers and he projects as a 1st liner, I'd say one could argue that he projects better than Tarasenko. Detroit is better off trying to sign Semin to a multi year deal in the offseason if he makes it there.

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03-21-2013, 10:16 AM
  #40
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Kuznetsov for Quincey, Franzen, Abdelkader, Nyquist and a 1st.

The reason I say this is because theres no way Washington is going to enter that trade offer without wanting the entire Red Wings roster. Kuznetsov can possibly be the next big thing and for that, they're going to ask for a ton in return

Obviously this trade won't happen unless you're offering them Zetterburg which we all know is a huge no

Zetterburg Backstrom and Ovechkin... think about that

Zetterburg is the only player the caps would be interested in for someone like Kuznetsov

So either the one I said previously or Kuznetsov, Ribeiro, Fehr and a 1st For Zetterberg.

It wont happen, Detroit

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03-21-2013, 10:30 AM
  #41
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This is really interesting idea. Kuznetsov would be a perfect answer for our biggest need at center prospect area.

His jump to NA also fits greatly with the departure of Datsyuk.

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03-21-2013, 11:19 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
This is really interesting idea. Kuznetsov would be a perfect answer for our biggest need at center prospect area.

His jump to NA also fits greatly with the departure of Datsyuk.
i bet he wants to play with a fellow russian though. Ovechkin and Orlov will be there

datsyuk will be gone.

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03-21-2013, 12:13 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
When was the first time?
Year ago.

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Originally Posted by courtcapsfan View Post
i bet he wants to play with a fellow russian though. Ovechkin and Orlov will be there

datsyuk will be gone.
Detroit drafts Traktor buddy Nichuskin.. problem solved.

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03-21-2013, 01:01 PM
  #44
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Zetterburg is the only player the caps would be interested in for someone like Kuznetsov
We'd also be interested in Kronwall.

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03-21-2013, 01:57 PM
  #45
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We'd also be interested in Kronwall.
.. Until you see him play D.

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03-21-2013, 03:34 PM
  #46
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.. Until you see him play D.
Are you familiar with the Washington Capitals' defense?

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03-21-2013, 03:43 PM
  #47
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i bet he wants to play with a fellow russian though. Ovechkin and Orlov will be there

datsyuk will be gone.
Alexei Marchenko will cross the pond at next summer.

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03-21-2013, 04:26 PM
  #48
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Are you familiar with the Washington Capitals' defense?

Well yeah but I thought you don't want it to stay that way .

Orrleksy looks ok.

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03-22-2013, 12:05 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Probably why you aren't the GM.
Okay, let's see this play out. Also if most of the Detroit posters were made GMs they'd have to fire themselves immediately based on their own ridiculous standards. I still wish anyone came clean about wanting to have Holland fired for losing Quincey on waivers only to want him fired for reacquiring him.

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03-22-2013, 12:29 AM
  #50
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Why do the Capitals retain Kuznetsov's rights, and at what point would they lose them? I thought a player had to sign within 2 years after being drafted.

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