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Old
03-21-2013, 05:58 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
A good confident puck handling goalie like Roli results in likely 5-10 less shots a game. Why? because its like having another skater back there. A few times a game Roli is clearing puck, several times he's moving puck to a PMD, and often he's got rebound control or tying up loose situations so they don't become 3-4 shot close in cluster****s which Dubs is susceptible to.

A goalie can, and does, play some part in how many total shots they are seeing. A goalie like Roli brilliantly supported MINIMIZING how much the puck stayed in his own end. Dubnyk is abysmal at puck management of any kind.
It is obvious that Dubnyk has worked on his puck handling. It's still below average for starters in the league, but no longer atrocious. I fear this is as good as he'll ever be with the puck. Which means he'll face a lot more shots than he necessarily should. Should a goalie get credit for a high save percentage when many of the shots are a result of his own play?

The third goal was terrible. Maybe it was due to Dubnyk being tired, but no one can argue that it was a solid goal 'any' goalie would let in.

No he's not the only problem with this team. But this is a young team that faces the added burden of knowing when the game gets tight there is a decent chance their goalie will let in a softie.

If opinion around the league is as vociferously pro-Dubnyk as it is with some on this board there should be a market for him.

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03-21-2013, 05:58 PM
  #227
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He's not as good as Roloson, but he's not as bad as Ty Conklin or something.

At this point, you just ride him out for the season and re-evaluate at year end. He's still young too, which has to be taken into consideration.

We have much bigger needs anyway, we need to get a big, gritty 2/3 center and we need 1-2 more additional d-men.

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03-21-2013, 06:11 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
A good confident puck handling goalie like Roli results in likely 5-10 less shots a game. Why? because its like having another skater back there. A few times a game Roli is clearing puck, several times he's moving puck to a PMD, and often he's got rebound control or tying up loose situations so they don't become 3-4 shot close in cluster****s which Dubs is susceptible to.
Even if you could prove this, doubtful that it's anywhere near 5-10.

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03-21-2013, 06:16 PM
  #229
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Even if you could prove this, doubtful that it's anywhere near 5-10.
I watched Roli play his whole career. It was like having a 3rd D back there. A very competent one. You think thats not a huge factor?

Interview Ron Hextall on it sometime. In 87 Hextall gave the oilers(best team in the world) fits with how good he was basically as an extra PMD. Its a HUGE factor. This is of course before trapezoid but with attention to detail goalies can still be very actively involved.

Also, and a point that hasn't been raised. Dubnyk is, shall we say a very non physical goalie. Whatever happened to making people think twice about sitting in your crease? Making people pay. Dubs looks like a pacifist out there which doesn't exactly help him.

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03-21-2013, 06:20 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Dubnyk reminds me of Markkanen with the amount of rebounds he gives out.
Jussi was good at controlled directing of rebounds. He also looked a hell of a lot more in control of the puck. With Dubes... you think the guy is stoned half the time because he has no clue where it is when he makes a save or what is going to happen. He constantly looks like a goalie that has put on new equipment aand has no feel.

Certainly not a goalie any team has to mentally prepare or fear getting into their heads. you just shoot from anywhere and you will get him wondering what to do if he happens to make the save. A little late to be learning to feel the puck when you are 25.

No one will ever fear facing Dubie. Cujo and Roli...even Salo Essensa and Jussi could get into opponents heads where the opposition felt they had to move the goalie. Watched the SCF 06 a while ago and Jussi stood on his head in every one of those games. Puckss were smothered. Other than the team not showing up in game 2 and leaving him out to ddry we were right in that series with our back-up as the main man. Even game 2 where we got lit up he was the best player on our team by miles. Could have been 15-0 after 20 mintutes. I dont see anything like that EVER from Dubie. He is a punch line on TSN and likely accross the NHL.

That is when you have a good goalie, when teams have the goalie in their head and they adjust to try to solve him. Just shoot on dubie he is nothing special nor ever will be.

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03-21-2013, 06:20 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I watched Roli play his whole career. It was like having a 3rd D back there. A very competent one. You think thats not a huge factor?

Interview Ron Hextall on it sometime. In 87 Hextall gave the oilers(best team in the world) fits with how good he was basically as an extra PMD. Its a HUGE factor. This is of course before trapezoid but with attention to detail goalies can still be very actively involved.

Also, and a point that hasn't been raised. Dubnyk is, shall we say a very non physical goalie. Whatever happened to making people think twice about sitting in your crease? Making people pay. Dubs looks like a pacifist out there which doesn't exactly help him.
How many goalies in the league handle the puck like Roli? Few to none do that anymore, it just isn't something they do.

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03-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I watched Roli play his whole career. It was like having a 3rd D back there. A very competent one. You think thats not a huge factor?
Congrats. And have you watched every other goalie too? And have you recorded any type of information regarding the impact of stick handling ability to distinguish between good and bad? And based on this difference in ability, the impact the variability has on shots against? Doubtful.

I get what you are trying to say. And stickhandling is an important component but to suggest that the difference between the stickhandling ability Roli vs. Dubnyk causes 5-10 shots against on a per game basis, you're wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Interview Ron Hextall on it sometime. In 87 Hextall gave the oilers(best team in the world) fits with how good he was basically as an extra PMD. Its a HUGE factor. This is of course before trapezoid but with attention to detail goalies can still be very actively involved.
I'll try and book him in.

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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Also, and a point that hasn't been raised. Dubnyk is, shall we say a very non physical goalie. Whatever happened to making people think twice about sitting in your crease? Making people pay. Dubs looks like a pacifist out there which doesn't exactly help him.
Nitpicking.

This just in. Dubnyk is not the best goaltender in the NHL. He isn't elite and isn't going to steal a significant number of games. However, today, the Oilers aren't going to get an elite goalie in this league. There is no hidden gem in Finland that no other team has noticed.

He is however going to keep you in games and is a competitive goalie who will win more games as the team in front of him improves. Replacing him at a cost, is a wasted cost. It's a cost that should be used to improve this team in other areas.

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03-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #233
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Do the Oilers NEED another goalie?

I say yes, but NOT to replace Dubnyk...yet. It's to replace Khabibulin.

We obviously can't rely on him being healthy the rest of the year and we're going to need someone as a legitimate NHL back-up next year anyway, so why not start looking for someone now?

As for Dubnyk...I've been watching a fair amount of hockey on game centre this year and TBH, I don't think that the Oilers are getting much worse goaltending than any of the other teams in the league.

Has Dubnyk been letting in more soft goals than he should be? Absolutely, but so are most of the other starters in the league. You name anyone, and they've let in some very stoppable pucks this year and it seems like every team has had to suffer through inconsistent goaltending at some point.

Does he need a lot of work on his rebound control? No question, but he's shown that he is capable of doing that, it's just the consistency.

Some have said that because he's 27 that it's do-or-die for him, or even that he's already past his point of getting it, but I wonder if that's the case here.

I can't help but think that he's at a point in his development where the next 2 years are the when he should know whether he's going to figure it out or not and get that consistency and rebound control etc.

History has shown that some goalies can mature at a very late age, and I think that his development was stunted a bit due to the path he's had to take to get to where he is now.

He's shown that he's capable of winning games on his own, as he did at the start of the season, the question is, can he do it on a regular basis and is he the goalie for this group of skaters going forward.

I think it's too early to tell yet with him and think he should be given another season to figure it out, but with someone like a Bishop, etc pushing him in case things don't work out with Dubnyk. The Oilers don't NEED to win now (they need to start winning in general), but they do need to have a solid 1-2 figured out by the end of 2 seasons from now when the team is ready to start making a serious run.

Edit: I just wanted to add that the rest of the team is very young and is being given some extra leash due to the learning process, and I don't have a problem with Dubnyk being given the same a little longer because of what I stated above. And honestly, who's available that's a better replacement?


Last edited by Powder: 03-21-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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Old
03-21-2013, 06:26 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insta View Post
How many goalies in the league handle the puck like Roli? Few to none do that anymore, it just isn't something they do.
Yeah, lol, Roli was one of a kind, really underrated. Should've won the Conn Smythe in 2006 if it wasn't for freaking Bergeron throwing a player on top of him.

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03-21-2013, 06:28 PM
  #235
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If Brodeur can score, why can't Dubnyk? He's gotta pick it up!

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03-21-2013, 06:30 PM
  #236
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Who doesn't want a Vezina goalie...until then we have a competent but not perfect goalie...deal with it!!!

Ryan miller .919 career/ 2.59 GAA career
Dubnyk .912 / 2.82 GAA career

Dubnyk played to
12-13 in 2010-11 (team was 25-45-12)-62 pts,
20-20 in 2011-12 (team was 32-40-10)-74 pts
8-9-6 in 2012-13 (prorated 31-31-20)-prorated 82 pts


I think it is too easy to say that other goalies are not letting in those deflating goals...that is crap...all goals are deflating to a team...and all goalies let in goals.

Miller is on a terrible team and strangely enough he is "exposed". Goaltender play has a lot to do with the team in front of them.

the way I see it

Pros:
-Size
-Covers the bottom of the net well on most shots (even the difficult ones)
-Positionally ok
-Stops a lot of really good mid-range scoring opportunites (shots from high slot)
-Stops a lot of rubber in general

Cons:
-bobbles the puck on long shots (seems like he almost has vision problems)
-poor rebound control
-goes down early
-cant scramble to save his life
-has not "stolen" us a lot of games


This is a FIRST year designated #1 starter...and while I dont think he has been lights out...I would not say he is the biggest problem...this is a team that has Ryan Smyth chugging around with his boat anchor, Eric Belanger being completely ineffective in firing shots from his muffin cannon, RNH stone cold offensively, Ryan Whitney on one leg, Potter and N. Shultz throwing the puck around like a hand grenade, Eberle struggling...

and in spite of all this...we MIGHT...JUST MIGHT...have a hope of playing some more meaningful hockey this year...

Would I like to have Rinne, Quick, Price, Lundqvist, Hiller...of course...but I would also rather have Crosby than Eberle because he is outperforming him as well...but I dont see the majority of HFOil losing it everytime Eberle steps on the ice and makes a gaffe

Dubnyk is our starter for the remainder of the year like it or not...lets get together and back the guy...if there is someone better available now for the right price (unlikely) or in the off-season then I am all in favor of improving our team...

I groan on the bad goals too...and I want to see him mend the holes in his game, but regardless for now wears the Oilers jersey and I will back him for the remainder of this season...

(rant over)

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03-21-2013, 06:36 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by actionjackson View Post


Who doesn't want a Vezina goalie...until then we have a competent but not perfect goalie...deal with it!!!

...

This is a FIRST year designated #1 starter...and while I dont think he has been lights out...I would not say he is the biggest problem...this is a team that has Ryan Smyth chugging around with his boat anchor, Eric Belanger being completely ineffective in firing shots from his muffin cannon, RNH stone cold offensively, Ryan Whitney on one leg, Potter and N. Shultz throwing the puck around like a hand grenade, Eberle struggling...

and in spite of all this...we MIGHT...JUST MIGHT...have a hope of playing some more meaningful hockey this year...

Would I like to have Rinne, Quick, Price, Lundqvist, Hiller...of course...but I would also rather have Crosby than Eberle because he is outperforming him as well...but I dont see the majority of HFOil losing it everytime Eberle steps on the ice and makes a gaffe

Dubnyk is our starter for the remainder of the year like it or not...lets get together and back the guy...if there is someone better available now for the right price (unlikely) or in the off-season then I am all in favor of improving our team...

I groan on the bad goals too...and I want to see him mend the holes in his game, but regardless for now wears the Oilers jersey and I will back him for the remainder of this season...

(rant over)
I can't agree more with this.

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03-21-2013, 06:36 PM
  #238
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I dunno Miller seems like kind of a head case...

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03-21-2013, 06:39 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
I dunno Miller seems like kind of a head case...
and this... lol

There's something going on between the ears with that guy.

He calls out team mates out in the media then has to apologize the next day, I know he's frustrated right now, and he should be...but he seems like a bit of a hot head and I wonder if his best days are behind him.

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03-21-2013, 06:39 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
I dunno Miller seems like kind of a head case...
I honestly couldn't tell you much about him. I was just using him as a basis for comparison as he has been called elite (maybe not recently) and is an example of what might be an available option come trade deadline.

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03-21-2013, 06:43 PM
  #241
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Silly thread is silly.

The only people that blame DD are people that have not watched any Oiler's games, or followed any of their stats.
You couldn't be more wrong.
Some of us have watched this player sieve out for three years now.
Its getting a little old.
Quote:
Both show the same result. Goal tender is above league average in performance, skaters are below league average in performance..
Perhaps you should watch the games instead of focusing on the SV%.
Dubnyk can stop over ninety percent of shots he faces ..... big deal.
He wouldn't be in the NHL if he didn't have some ability.
The problem is that his penchant for letting in terrible goals continues to cost the team games they could have/should have won - like last night.
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People who think DD is the problem have some serious expectation issues in regards to goalies.
Nah. We just know what an NHL goalie looks like and it aint Dubnyk.

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Problem isn't Dubnyk, sorry. Oilers give up 6 more shots per game than they take, many of which are quality shots.
I disagree. I think Dubnyk faces a lot of easy shots. But I guess every shot is "quality" when you are shooting at Dubnyk - even ones from center ice.

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Originally Posted by oil10 View Post
YES !!!! I strongly agree. Why is it that us true Oilers fans get this but the band-wagoners don't. Getting really sick and tried of the blame always being on Dubnyk.
lmao


Last edited by harpoon: 03-21-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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03-21-2013, 06:48 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
I dunno Miller seems like kind of a head case...
I don't want him. I bet his team mates hate him.

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03-21-2013, 06:54 PM
  #243
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I don't want him. I bet his team mates hate him.
Yeah, he's still a good goalie but he's past his Vezina days. Also, he whines and whines about everything.

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03-21-2013, 06:56 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Sloth Slothersons View Post
Yeah, he's still a good goalie but he's past his Vezina days. Also, he whines and whines about everything.
Serious question...

All things considered (salary, term, attitude, performance, etc)

Dubnyk or Miller for this year and next?

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03-21-2013, 07:10 PM
  #245
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Ah yes. Now the Oilers are being outshot because Dubnyk is allowing too many rebounds. This is priceless
Where did I say that at all? You pulled that one out of your ass. Giving up rebounds does allow for more shots on goal.

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03-21-2013, 07:12 PM
  #246
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Yeah, he's still a good goalie but he's past his Vezina days. Also, he whines and whines about everything.
It sure seems like it. There always seems to be a cloud of discontent and poor attitude around him. His tendency to throw his team mates under the bus is not something I like either.

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03-21-2013, 07:21 PM
  #247
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LOL this discussion again.

Our goalies go to other teams and have success. Roloson had Dubnyk-level save percentages in his last year, and is heralded as a "poor goalie". We let him go, and he's leading the TBL to the ECF within 2 years.

How hard is it for people to realize that no goalie (other than Hasek in his prime) can take a bottom-5 defense and turn it around.

It's so easy to point the finger at one person rather than a 6-man unit on the blue-line, so you do it. Armchair GMing at it's finest. I'd rather throw some bigger assets away on a legitimate top-pairing defenseman (McDonagh) than waste it on another goalie to struggle on our team.

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03-21-2013, 07:25 PM
  #248
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Dubnyk is not good enough to be a starter, on this team or any other team as one poster sugessted., just a scary thought if we ever make it to the playoffs with Dubby as our main man. He's 27 its 3 yrs now and frankly some goals he lets in, basically every game, are downright embarrassing!

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03-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #249
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Hey guys Bruins fan checking in again,

You say you need a goalie. Apparently our back up goalie, Anton Khudobin, wants a good amount of money when he is up for another contract this summer. Since we already need to re-up guys like Rask this summer and are already tied up with the cap, it is very likely that Anton could be leaving this summer.

He is a very good goaltender with sound positioning and has the ability to make a big save when needed. We need help with the third line or third defensive pairing.

What would you guys be willing to give up say we were to engage in some kind of discussions.

Cheers guys,
Brett

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03-21-2013, 07:49 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
LOL this discussion again.
It's amazing how this discussion always comes up when Dubnyk let's in a softie that breaks the team's back.

Even Jim Matheson is arguing to give Khabi a start.

What are the odds Dubnyk gets his 12th start in a row after last night's performance? Probably higher than they should be.

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