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Francis Bouillon will miss first month

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Old
08-04-2006, 05:58 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
ya well although it seem like im trade happy there's nothing wrong with trying to improve your club .players are going to be on the move ALOT MORE now isnt that plain to see?

you'll soon see that alot of these fimilar faces GONE some we have took so long to develop will be granted big salarys under the new nhl arb process and will be gone with in the first 3 or 4 years of there nhl careers !!!.

you think Ryder wont get 5 million a season next year in arbration?

what about Ribs ? if dumout got 2.9 ribs has to be worth some where close to that .

you think Markov wont get .5 million next year in arbration?

Plekanec he is a rfa end of this season whats he goona be worth alot more than the 690,000 he making now



Rivet and Souray will be in for big raises from there current 2.3 and 2.4 million dollars a year.sure you can let them go and sign 2 other defenmen but try to find 2 guys on the open market that can atleast play as well as them for less than there current 2.3 and 2.4 million a year there currently making ..good luck you seen the salrays this year



im telling ya get used to it . think more like Brian Burke and less with your heart and welcome to the new nhl .


everyone felt sorry for buffalo but montreals turn is coming next year . i can only imagine the whining that will be going on when Ryder gets 5 million . the 1 year deal will come back to haunt us
What the hell are you talking about? What does the market conditions of the new CBA have to do with replacing Bouillon for the first 10 games of the year?

It seems to me like you are throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, into the discussion just to make a point about making a trade for a 10 game stretch AT THE START of the season. And if you make a trade for a defenseman, what do you do with him when Bou gets back? We are in a cap world you know.

Sorry, but his has nothing to do with disrespect for Frankie. Not making a trade has everything to do with making do with fillers to replace a bottom pair defenseman.

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08-04-2006, 07:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
What the hell are you talking about? What does the market conditions of the new CBA have to do with replacing Bouillon for the first 10 games of the year?

It seems to me like you are throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, into the discussion just to make a point about making a trade for a 10 game stretch AT THE START of the season. And if you make a trade for a defenseman, what do you do with him when Bou gets back? We are in a cap world you know.

Sorry, but his has nothing to do with disrespect for Frankie. Not making a trade has everything to do with making do with fillers to replace a bottom pair defenseman.


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Everyone knows Doug is the most trade happy person on this board. This is just another reason to futher his agenda


thats what you said to me ....claiming i have a "agenda" about trading our players or trading for new players. that last post was in response to your comment .


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08-04-2006, 07:55 PM
  #53
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I'm interested in seeing what Gainey does. In the end I think one of the young guys will be given a chance as the 7th dman and this will be Streits chance to show what he can do.

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08-04-2006, 09:18 PM
  #54
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I like Streit he s like another Bouillon exept less physical play, but more offense.
he showed great stuff towards the end of the year
Streit at the point on the 2nd PP next year ? no problem for me...
I read in JDM that Bouillon knew the whole time he was injured, Gainey too..
It said that Bouillon didn t tought he was going to need one...
Anyway, Bouillon could have been ready for training camp...Wasted time...

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08-04-2006, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Chiram View Post
I like Bouillon's heart... but first, he's the only contract I'm mad at Gainey, cause I think he's way overpaid

Second, he's 31-to-be in october... and it's only since 2003-2004 season that's he's been able to play a full schedule. Yeah, perhaps he's a late bloomer, but I don't care really, he's always been a fringe NHL player before becoming a 6th-7th D, on the Habs, and he won't be better than that. And 25-30 mins ?? Damn we were in REAL trouble to need him that much...

Third, J-P Cote, and Mark Streit... for Streit, well, I still think he can be better than he was, and I'm all for playing him as much as we can, cause he has a good shot, likes to pinch in offensively, and while he's small, IMO he's underrated physically.

For Cote, I think he could replace Bouillon on a regular basis. For the one who said he couldn't log Bouillon's minutes (mckenzie ?), you have to remember that in order for a player to develop, he has to play. Bouillon has been a band-aid for some years now, I think it's time to use our inside assets, like AH said. Cote is 6 inches taller and nearly 20 pounds heavier, skates well and is a rock defensively.

Where was Bouillon when he was 24 ?? With the Habs... playing 29 games... he wasn't very effective, really. He developped, somehow... now it's time to develop another player, and if he's better than Bouillon, then all the better !
The voice of reason

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08-04-2006, 11:25 PM
  #56
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If both Streit and Bouillon are injured for the first month of the season, that stretches the Habs D to playing Cote in a regular shift. If any other defenceman goes down, even for a couple of games, the team will be screwed.

I agree with doug that Gainey will probably get another defenceman. It probably won't be anyone exciting like Vishnevski, but I'm still expecting the signing or acquisition of a defenceman. The only way I don't see it happening is if Gainey lures Emelin over to compete with Cote for the 6th or 7th D out of camp (assuming Streit can't go either).

Anyway, Blind Gardien has pointed out that one of the few remaining items on Gainey's shopping list is a veteran AHL defenceman who can suit up for the Habs in a pinch. There's still lots of names in the scrap heap, like Biron and Doig. It would be just like last year when Gainey signed Paul and Aitken, both of whom had NHL experience.

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08-04-2006, 11:31 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
so your saying Streit /Komo were never given the chance to play 20 to 30 minutes a night 40 times last year instead of Boullion now why was that? why did head coach GAINEY choose to give Boullion big minutes over Streit /Komo ?
Yes, that's what I said. And why was that? Does it even matter? No. Why? Because neither of them will be asked to play 30 minutes a game, at the start of the season, barring any freak accidents leading up to opening night. That's the point - IT DOESN'T MATTER. Just like it DOESN'T MATTER that Bouillon played big minutes when the Habs needed him to. All is well at the start of the season, nobody is banged up from tough opponents, nobody is too tired from too much playing time. Right now Bouillon is slated for the third pairing, with third pairing minutes. Those are the minutes that need to be replaced for a handful of games. Why can't you understand that???

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08-04-2006, 11:57 PM
  #58
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Concerning his contract I think it was well known what injuries he had and what he had to do to correct it.
There's no reason to back out of a multi-year deal because he will miss 1 month in that span.
He should have commited to an operation earlier then. Me thinks Bob wasn't aware of it.

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08-05-2006, 12:30 AM
  #59
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Yes, that's what I said. And why was that? Does it even matter? No. Why?

you know the real answer why gainey used boullion to play the big minutes . you just dont wanna say it .

gainey's eye is as good as yours and mine . the reason komo and streit didint play the big minutes was because they werent good enuff(ready) to handle that type of load .
no need to start freaking out because im not bashing komo thats not what im doing .
he did improve as the season went along albeit with markov but still was only capable of play 15-16 mins a night .

you can continue to dance around the issue but thats the truth . otherwise komo or striet would have seen alot more ice and boullion wouldnt have seen 40 games out of his 67 games playing over 20 minutes with the majority over 22 to 25 mins a night .



again im not saying boullion is a bonifdie number 4 guy but he played number 4 defensemen minutes last season . right or wrong thats what gainey did . he was on pace to play over 1600 plus mins in 82 games before he got hurt .

you realise if boullion was to play only 7 more games (75) instead of his 67 and averaged his 20.48 minutes per game he would have only finished less than 110 minutes behind big sheldon souray's total ice time ...

SHELDON SOURAY 75 games -1,668:43 minutes

FRANK BOULLION 75 games -1558 .68 minutes

again you dont have to like frank boullion many here dont
he was over used i was the one screaming they were goona wear him out . over all i thought he played pretty well being thrown into that situation and thats why i respect boullion

maybe this year streit and komo are better than last and able to play more minutes .i certianly hope this will be the case . we can all assume but until they prove they can like frank boullion has it doesnt matter .

and i understand they will need to be given the chance but not at anytime were both of them komo /streit capable of logging 22-25 mins a night on a regular basis last season . not a chance !!!other wise gainey/carbo would have played komo or striet over boullion .


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08-05-2006, 12:36 AM
  #60
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He should have commited to an operation earlier then. Me thinks Bob wasn't aware of it.


the la presse said the knee injury was something he was playing with for 2 years or so . this year it started to pain and wouldnt go away .

ya never know if he played with a bad knee for the last 2 years he could be a Bionic Man when he gets back


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08-05-2006, 01:00 AM
  #61
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If both Streit and Bouillon are injured for the first month of the season, that stretches the Habs D to playing Cote in a regular shift. If any other defenceman goes down, even for a couple of games, the team will be screwed.

I agree with doug that Gainey will probably get another defenceman. It probably won't be anyone exciting like Vishnevski, but I'm still expecting the signing or acquisition of a defenceman. The only way I don't see it happening is if Gainey lures Emelin over to compete with Cote for the 6th or 7th D out of camp (assuming Streit can't go either).

Anyway, Blind Gardien has pointed out that one of the few remaining items on Gainey's shopping list is a veteran AHL defenceman who can suit up for the Habs in a pinch. There's still lots of names in the scrap heap, like Biron and Doig. It would be just like last year when Gainey signed Paul and Aitken, both of whom had NHL experience.
Boston will have 3 rookies in their top 6 on defense. I've seen other teams that will have pretty weak bottom 5-6 dmen. I think we can play the 10-15 games without Bouillon with Cote and Streit as the 6th/7th dman. If there's an injury, we'll just have to use the guys we have and promote someone from the farm for a game or two.

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08-05-2006, 09:10 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
you know the real answer why gainey used boullion to play the big minutes . you just dont wanna say it .

gainey's eye is as good as yours and mine . the reason komo and streit didint play the big minutes was because they werent good enuff(ready) to handle that type of load .
no need to start freaking out because im not bashing komo thats not what im doing .
he did improve as the season went along albeit with markov but still was only capable of play 15-16 mins a night .

you can continue to dance around the issue but thats the truth . otherwise komo or striet would have seen alot more ice and boullion wouldnt have seen 40 games out of his 67 games playing over 20 minutes with the majority over 22 to 25 mins a night .



again im not saying boullion is a bonifdie number 4 guy but he played number 4 defensemen minutes last season . right or wrong thats what gainey did . he was on pace to play over 1600 plus mins in 82 games before he got hurt .

you realise if boullion was to play only 7 more games (75) instead of his 67 and averaged his 20.48 minutes per game he would have only finished less than 110 minutes behind big sheldon souray's total ice time ...

SHELDON SOURAY 75 games -1,668:43 minutes

FRANK BOULLION 75 games -1558 .68 minutes

again you dont have to like frank boullion many here dont
he was over used i was the one screaming they were goona wear him out . over all i thought he played pretty well being thrown into that situation and thats why i respect boullion

maybe this year streit and komo are better than last and able to play more minutes .i certianly hope this will be the case . we can all assume but until they prove they can like frank boullion has it doesnt matter .

and i understand they will need to be given the chance but not at anytime were both of them komo /streit capable of logging 22-25 mins a night on a regular basis last season . not a chance !!!other wise gainey/carbo would have played komo or striet over boullion .
Listen, I like Frankie alot so I'm in no way trying to bash him. You feel I'm skirting an issue, I feel the same way about you... so please just answer me this:

How many minutes per game did you expect a healthy Francis Bouillon to be playing over the first 10 games of the season. THAT allotment is what the Habs need to replace. It seems to me you feel he'll be playing in the 25 minute range, while I feel it's in the 10-15 minute neighborhood. If we needed someone to play 25 minutes a game, I'd be hoping Bob would get someone to fill in. Since we need someone for substantially less (imo) it's in Bob's best interest to throw a few more minutes to our 'fringe' Dmen to see what they can do with some extra playing time.

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08-05-2006, 10:23 AM
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I don't understand why everyone thinks cote is so capable of being the 6th Dman. I was looking at Jancevski's stats from last year and he had 9G 29A for 38pts last year. Cote had 3G 8A for 11pts. I don't know why we're not looking at Jancevski as a possibility for a lineup spot.

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08-05-2006, 01:05 PM
  #64
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I don't understand why everyone thinks cote is so capable of being the 6th Dman. I was looking at Jancevski's stats from last year and he had 9G 29A for 38pts last year. Cote had 3G 8A for 11pts. I don't know why we're not looking at Jancevski as a possibility for a lineup spot.
Goals and assists stats for Dmen is a very small consideration, especially for third pairing... you can't possibly think that the higher offensive stats = better defenceman? Is Mark Streit therefore a better defenceman than Mike Komisarek? Or, say WIllie Mitchell? Barret Jackman? Streit had more points than these guys, right?

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08-05-2006, 01:12 PM
  #65
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Boston will have 3 rookies in their top 6 on defense. I've seen other teams that will have pretty weak bottom 5-6 dmen. I think we can play the 10-15 games without Bouillon with Cote and Streit as the 6th/7th dman. If there's an injury, we'll just have to use the guys we have and promote someone from the farm for a game or two.
Those rookies are really sophomores with a lot more promise than Streit or Cote. Also, Chara can play about 30 minutes a game, especially over a short stretch. The worry is that if Streit and Bouillon are going to miss the first 10-15 games of the season, then the Habs could be giving away points that will be sorely needed at the end of year tally.

It's not panic time. Maybe both will be ready for the start of the season. But I still think that we'll see a kind of Traverse signing, one primarily intended for Hamilton but that also provides some more depth at the NHL level in a worst case scenario.

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08-05-2006, 01:28 PM
  #66
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Those rookies are really sophomores with a lot more promise than Streit or Cote. Also, Chara can play about 30 minutes a game, especially over a short stretch. The worry is that if Streit and Bouillon are going to miss the first 10-15 games of the season, then the Habs could be giving away points that will be sorely needed at the end of year tally.

It's not panic time. Maybe both will be ready for the start of the season. But I still think that we'll see a kind of Traverse signing, one primarily intended for Hamilton but that also provides some more depth at the NHL level in a worst case scenario.

bruins just walked away from david tanabe at 1.25 million .

he made $950,000 last year

obvoiusly no intrest in him from any other teams at 1.25 million but at $ 850,000 he might be that traverse kinda dman your talking about dave . he is a 6 or 7 dman might be a good depth signing by gainey.


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08-05-2006, 01:54 PM
  #67
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Goals and assists stats for Dmen is a very small consideration, especially for third pairing... you can't possibly think that the higher offensive stats = better defenceman? Is Mark Streit therefore a better defenceman than Mike Komisarek? Or, say WIllie Mitchell? Barret Jackman? Streit had more points than these guys, right?
The importance does become slightly blurred though when you're looking back to lower leagues. A good player in the AHL or in junior, even if he's just destined for a stay-at-home 3rd pairing role as an NHLer, will often distinguish himself by being given added responsibility that results in some extra points as well.

Anyway, generalizations aside, I think I've seen Jancevski and Cote more than 20 times each by now, and I'm pretty confident that Jancevski is better. At both ends of the ice. I think anybody who wants to rate Cote as a future regular NHLer had better take a close look at just how many current NHL defensemen, even 3rd pairing stay-at-home types, could only muster 10-pt seasons in the AHL. It's not an open and shut case, but the generalization in this case actually argues against Cote, not for him.

The specifics say that Cote is probably just barely safe enough if he plays within his limitations to not hurt you as a 6th defenseman in an emergency. Jancevski is pretty much the same, although with more versatility IMO. When the puck drops in Hamilton, Jancevski will in all likelihood once again be slotted ahead of Cote in the Bulldogs pecking order. And people probably overlook it, but Jancevski is less than a year older than Cote.

No doubt people will take this post as dumping on Cote, which would be unfortunate, because I do like him. I also think he has become somewhat mythically overrated in some quarters, however.

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08-05-2006, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
bruins just walked away from david tanabe at 1.25 million .

he made $950,000 last year

obvoiusly no intrest in him from any other teams at 1.25 million but at $ 850,000 he might be that traverse kinda dman your talking about dave . he is a 6 or 7 dman might be a good depth signing by gainey.
Speaking of Traverse-like signings...

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08-05-2006, 02:02 PM
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Speaking of Traverse-like signings...



dave expects a traverse like signing . so i offer you tanabe/traverse

tanabe wouldnt be any worse than streit .

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08-05-2006, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
i was one of the one's and there was a few others that was
upset Beauchemin got away from us the day it happened

again i dont see why it so hard to understand . i said i like cote i have nothing against him i want him to make our team this year BUT he cant play 20 - 25 mins a night that isnt realistic . cote as ruff as he is has had issue in the ahl also ( injuries)

AGAIN everyone thinks boullion is easy to replace GIVE THE GUY SOME @$@# RESPECT ...

you look at frank boullion and his time on the ice .
can you honeslty sit there and tell me jp cote can eat these kind of minutes as a rookie with 8 games experience who averaged 10 to 11 mins a night when he was here. im all for given guys there chance but then there is reality

i dont wanna hear oh frank shouldnt be playing those many minutes anyways .THE FACT IS gainey /carbo did play him that many minutes alot of nights .

loook at this game frank took over 32 mins that night
Nov 22, 2005 vs. ATL-32:38 mins

could you play jp cote 32 mins in a game ? i dont think so and thats what im saying . everyone say oh cote will replace boullion GOOD LUCK with that ...


loook at the number of games frank boullion played over 20 mins a night

Mar 16, 2006 vs. CAR-22:39
Mar 11, 2006 vs. NYR-25:12
Mar 2, 2006 vs. FLA-21:30

Feb 28, 2006 vs. NYI-20:46
Feb 5, 2006 vs. PHI-20:08
Feb 2, 2006 vs. BOS-21:16
Jan 31, 2006 vs. CAR-20:18

Jan 28, 2006 vs. TOR -24:12
Jan 26, 2006 vs. OTT -22:20
Jan 25, 2006 vs. PHI -26:54
Jan 23, 2006 vs. CAR -22:02
Jan 21, 2006 vs. VAN-22:29
Jan 19, 2006 vs. CGY-27:02
Jan 16, 2006 vs. DAL-23:26
Jan 14, 2006 vs. SJS-22:39
Jan 11, 2006 vs. COL-23:28
Jan 7, 2006 vs. OTT-22:32
Jan 5, 2006 vs. NJD-25:09
Jan 3, 2006 vs. PIT -23:29


Dec 31, 2005 vs. CAR-25:12
Dec 30, 2005 vs. FLA-20:21
Dec 28, 2005 vs. TBL-20:32
Dec 20, 2005 vs. OTT-26:19
Dec 17, 2005 vs. MIN-21:22

Dec 3, 2005 vs. LAK-27:47
Dec 1, 2005 vs. BUF -28:30



Nov 29, 2005 vs. OTT-27:01
Nov 26, 2005 vs. TOR -21:35
Nov 25, 2005 vs. BUF -21:09
--------------------------------------
Nov 22, 2005 vs. ATL-32:38 mins
--------------------------------------


Nov 10, 2005 vs.PIT-21:10
Nov 1, 2005 vs. FLA-20:43
Oct 29, 2005 vs. NYR-21:31
Oct 25, 2005 vs. PHI-22:27
Oct 8, 2005 vs. TOR-20:59
Oct 6, 2005 vs. NYR -22:03





then in the playoffs


May 2, 2006 vs. CAR 21:21
Apr 30, 2006 vs. CAR 19:40
Apr 28, 2006 vs. CAR 18:52
Apr 26, 2006 vs. CAR 21:19
Apr 24, 2006 vs. CAR 33:02
Apr 22, 2006 vs. CAR 20:12


You sure do a lot of # crunching but don't you suppose we can let komisarek, Souray, Markov, Dandeneault, Rivet, get a little more ice time along with cote getting some.

That way cote gets some playing time till bouillon is ready to play, and then either keeps a spot on the big club or gets sent back to Hamilton to shore up some things and gets another shot at the next injury?

We have guys that can step up to a 6th or 7th defenceman in our organization.

Gainey picked up Dan Jancevski as well.

Till we get a legit top defenceman through trade or whatever, i don't see the need to add another guy.. and since there isn't enough money under the cap to add the top defenceman, i say stay put..

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