HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Lak-phi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-21-2013, 11:59 AM
  #76
Mats26
Cup Champs
 
Mats26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 509
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Aren't they both RFAs?
Willie, Green and Doughty are signed for next year. Voynov and Muzzin are both playing really well and we will resign them (RFAs)

Mats26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 12:32 PM
  #77
Asheru
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, considering where the Flyers and Kings will be picking, it's more like Bernier + high 2nd for Read + high 3rd...

But of course, you ignore context, as almost everyone on HFBoards does.

Basically Read's value is a draft round higher than Bernier's is what I pointed out.

EDIT: Nevermind. Figured it out.

It's really closer to three 2nds + 3rd for Read + 2nd.

As I said before, context is EXTREMELY important, but people in general just like ignoring it. You can float the picks around, but it's not like the Flyers are getting a top 15 pick out of this deal, which is something you would expect to pay for a 0.900m/year 25yo forward racking up 50 points a season while playing a speedy and defensively responsible game.
Well here's some more context for you: the Kings don't have a first round pick this year, and it's highly unlikely they trade another in this situation. They want to get assets for Bernier, not trade away picks. If that's not Read well, so be it.

He is a good player, but I absolutely reject the idea from the OP that he's going to bump Justin Williams off the first line. It's not a fit if you rate him that high and Bernier that low.

Asheru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 12:40 PM
  #78
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
Well here's some more context for you: the Kings don't have a first round pick this year, and it's highly unlikely they trade another in this situation. They want to get assets for Bernier, not trade away picks. If that's not Read well, so be it.

He is a good player, but I absolutely reject the idea from the OP that he's going to bump Justin Williams off the first line. It's not a fit if you rate him that high and Bernier that low.
Kings don't have a 1st this year?

Oh, Carter trade?

Well, it's also not that I rate Bernier that low. I want him more than Schneider or Bishop or any of the other 5 or so goalies other fanbases seem to want to dump on us for Matt Read. That still doesn't mean it's right. If anything, the fact that so many goalies are being forced on us proves my point that goalies normally have very poor market value; particularly when there is only one buyer and 5-6 sellers.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:11 PM
  #79
KingKopitar11*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: staples center
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 16,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
This! I think everyone is overlooking this factor.

Guys, the real problem is there hasn't been a Los Philadelphia FlyKings trade this year. DL and Holmgren have the itch!
Did we send Gagne to Mars or something?

KingKopitar11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:21 PM
  #80
tml145
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,171
vCash: 500
Briere isn't the player he was

if he was traded he would probably get the same return as Simon Gagne

tml145 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:27 PM
  #81
Frolov 6'3
Unregistered User
 
Frolov 6'3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 9,526
vCash: 500
Read is an undersized skilled soon to be 27 year old forward who had a very good season in Philly's run and gun system. The one thing I like about him is that he can play three forward positions but I wouldnt trade Berny for him, let alone add.

A back-up like Bernier is currently more valuable to the Kings while Quick is not top notch.

Frolov 6'3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 01:29 PM
  #82
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,222
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Read is an undersized skilled soon to be 27 year old forward who had a very good season in Philly's run and gun system. The one thing I like about him is that he can play three forward positions but I wouldnt trade Berny for him, let alone add.

A back-up like Bernier is currently more valuable to the Kings while Quick is not top notch.
Yeah, I could see the Kings holding onto Bernier for the time being with the way things are developing for Quick.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:24 PM
  #83
Raccoon Jesus
Moderator
\_(ツ)_/
 
Raccoon Jesus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: I.E.
Country: United States
Posts: 30,421
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
Did we send Gagne to Mars or something?
See...it's so routine, I forgot this one

Raccoon Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 04:42 PM
  #84
Asheru
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Kings don't have a 1st this year?

Oh, Carter trade?

Well, it's also not that I rate Bernier that low. I want him more than Schneider or Bishop or any of the other 5 or so goalies other fanbases seem to want to dump on us for Matt Read. That still doesn't mean it's right. If anything, the fact that so many goalies are being forced on us proves my point that goalies normally have very poor market value; particularly when there is only one buyer and 5-6 sellers.
No one wants to "dump" or "force" goalies on Philadelphia, and saying there is only one buyer for goalies is comical.

I don't care what the current market is like, anyway. The Kings aren't in some rush to trade Bernier. Lombardi will move him back east if he can, but Bernier's still an RFA after this year. In the meantime, they're making good use of him.

Asheru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 08:33 PM
  #85
Tripod
Registered User
 
Tripod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
No one wants to "dump" or "force" goalies on Philadelphia, and saying there is only one buyer for goalies is comical.

I don't care what the current market is like, anyway. The Kings aren't in some rush to trade Bernier. Lombardi will move him back east if he can, but Bernier's still an RFA after this year. In the meantime, they're making good use of him.
I think even Philly fans agree that any trade involving Bernier would be made in the summer...not at the deadline.

Tripod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 08:39 PM
  #86
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
What is Bernier offensive ability ?

He only have one assist so far out of 58 career games and that was back in 2010.

It worry me.


Last edited by palindrom: 03-21-2013 at 08:53 PM.
palindrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 02:46 PM
  #87
SCARFACE909
Registered User
 
SCARFACE909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
What is Bernier offensive ability ?

He only have one assist so far out of 58 career games and that was back in 2010.

It worry me.
What?

SCARFACE909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #88
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
 
HYORI 1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,444
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
What is Bernier offensive ability ?

He only have one assist so far out of 58 career games and that was back in 2010.

It worry me.
Yeah, we're disappointed with Bernier's offensive production as well. You'd think a 1st round pick would score at least 1 goal in 58 career games. Bernier mentioned in an interview that he would prefer to play goalie which totally came out of left field (his second choice if he can't play goalie). Now you know why we're trying to trade him. Any takers?

HYORI 1963 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 03:15 PM
  #89
hockeyguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
Well here's some more context for you: the Kings don't have a first round pick this year, and it's highly unlikely they trade another in this situation. They want to get assets for Bernier, not trade away picks. If that's not Read well, so be it.

He is a good player, but I absolutely reject the idea from the OP that he's going to bump Justin Williams off the first line. It's not a fit if you rate him that high and Bernier that low.
i didn't say he would definitely bump williams off the first line, someone called him a bottom six forward which is just ridiculous, what i said was he would definitely be top 6 and could even replace williams, will he replace williams? probably not but he's talented enough to do so, but kop and williams have a good chemistry so they'll stay together.

hockeyguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #90
bobafettish*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyguy View Post
i didn't say he would definitely bump williams off the first line, someone called him a bottom six forward which is just ridiculous, what i said was he would definitely be top 6 and could even replace williams, will he replace williams? probably not but he's talented enough to do so, but kop and williams have a good chemistry so they'll stay together.
what is so ridiculous about calling him bottom 6? he broke in the league at 26. a LOT of philly players offensive numbers are inflated due to the system lavillette runs. look at lieno......

bobafettish* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #91
orange is better
Lattelepjandi lopatr
 
orange is better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Reykjavk
Country: Iceland
Posts: 11,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
what is so ridiculous about calling him bottom 6? he broke in the league at 26. a LOT of philly players offensive numbers are inflated due to the system lavillette runs. look at lieno......
Because he's not a bottom 6 forward here, the only place he's played. How can you claim he's not a top 6 forward when he's hasn't been anything but that? Maybe he wouldn't do as well on your team but you have no way to make that claim. Maybe he'd be better?

orange is better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 04:20 PM
  #92
1865
The Nightman Cometh
 
1865's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chester, UK
Country: England
Posts: 12,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
what is so ridiculous about calling him bottom 6? he broke in the league at 26. a LOT of philly players offensive numbers are inflated due to the system lavillette runs. look at lieno......
I love the way players' achievements are dismissed purely because we score a lot of goals. Has anyone considered that it's because we have good offensive players? Leino was fantastic for us, it's probably a desire thing with him now.

Read is a top 6 player for most teams. He's an incredibly talented man.

1865 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 04:45 PM
  #93
KingKopitar11*
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: staples center
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 16,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
what is so ridiculous about calling him bottom 6? he broke in the league at 26. a LOT of philly players offensive numbers are inflated due to the system lavillette runs. look at lieno......
This this and this.

KingKopitar11* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #94
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
offensive numbers are inflated due to the system lavillette runs. look at lieno......
Would it follow that Quick and Bernier's numbers are similarly improved by playing in Sutter's system?

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:02 PM
  #95
bobafettish*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Would it follow that Quick and Bernier's numbers are similarly improved by playing in Sutter's system?
how is sutter's system working for quick this year.....

bobafettish* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:06 PM
  #96
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
how is sutter's system working for quick this year.....
Probably roughly as well as Laviolette's is working for Flyers forwards not named Jake Voracek?

The point is simple: if Read's value must be qualified by the offensive-bias of the Flyers system, doesn't it follow that Bernier's impressive numbers must be understood in the context of the defensive bias of the Kings?

Seems a fair question, no?

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:08 PM
  #97
Zod
Disappointment Train
 
Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 396
vCash: 500
The timing doesn't really line up.

Flyers have no need to lose Read. Can give up Briere.

Kings could use Briere, but have no need for him once the season is over. Need Bernier now, but not necessarily after the season.

Kings take Briere for a 1st, amnesty him in the off season, and the first back with a slight plus for Bernier on draft day?

Zod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:11 PM
  #98
Reclamation Project
GFY
 
Reclamation Project's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 32,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
What is Bernier offensive ability ?

He only have one assist so far out of 58 career games and that was back in 2010.

It worry me.
I don't even . . .

Reclamation Project is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:15 PM
  #99
orange is better
Lattelepjandi lopatr
 
orange is better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Reykjavk
Country: Iceland
Posts: 11,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
What is Bernier offensive ability ?

He only have one assist so far out of 58 career games and that was back in 2010.

It worry me.
This is the best thing I've ever read here.

Idk if you're joking and frankly I do not care, sir.

orange is better is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:18 PM
  #100
Kingspiracy
Registered User
 
Kingspiracy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: New Zealand
Posts: 3,871
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Would it follow that Quick and Bernier's numbers are similarly improved by playing in Sutter's system?
Probably. Philly might be too much of a pressure cooker.

I think you'd probably find most kings fans are used to seeing supposed offensive upgrades struggle on our team. Carter seems about the only recent player that has really flourished offensively here. When you look at quite a few players that have been traded / let go, and how their numbers have taken off with other organisations it's understandable. Moulsen, Purcell, Simmonds even Boyle to an extent have found points easier to come by on other teams.
I don't know enough about Read to say whether i feel he'd get on well here, but as a smallish forward with a short contract coming up for 27 there are a few red flags popping up, even if he has been hugely successful in Philly. Add to this that Bernier was advertised as the next Roy, drafted high and nurtured by the organisation that has seen very limited goalie success. We get a bit clingy.
From my perspective i'd probably rather see him go to somewhere like Jersey for an NHL ready forward prospect like our Toffoli + or a good draft pick +.

Kingspiracy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:43 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. @2017 All Rights Reserved.