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*OFFICIAL* Sarnia Sting 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 2)

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03-21-2013, 05:00 PM
  #251
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I figured as much, although there are certainly some players (not to mention owners/coaches/general managers) who could be said to fit in the "unethical" category!

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03-21-2013, 06:33 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by massey View Post
Ciccarelli,
Do you really think this kid can make it w/o dads influence.He sure tries to keep up but based on this years games he will have to pick up the speed to keep up.He looked oK in Jr B but not sure the OHL is too fast.Hopefully can grow some over the summer,any thoughts
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Originally Posted by dean youngblood82 View Post
I think if his last name was anything other than "Ciccarelli" then he wouldn't have seen any action this year. It was probably a convenience thing bringing him up when injuries struck but I would agree, I don't think he is ready for the OHL, yet.
Matteo is a capable player, but his weak skating is ultimately what holds him back. He'll probably be a solid 3rd line center in a couple years, but he does need to become faster and a bit stronger first. I think the fact that he is a Ciccarelli is sometimes unfairly held against him because he does have an amazingly strong work ethic and is skilled, but like Dean said, it was pretty convenient being able to call up a local kid when the Sting needed too.

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03-21-2013, 07:09 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Shaun Bisson View Post
Matteo is a capable player, but his weak skating is ultimately what holds him back. He'll probably be a solid 3rd line center in a couple years, but he does need to become faster and a bit stronger first. I think the fact that he is a Ciccarelli is sometimes unfairly held against him because he does have an amazingly strong work ethic and is skilled, but like Dean said, it was pretty convenient being able to call up a local kid when the Sting needed too.
I agree that Matteo works hard and has some skill and is an easy call-up, but I don't think anything is being held against because of his name. If he wasn't a Ciccarelli, would he have even been drafted by any other team? Unfortunately if players are in positions because of their name, then it is expected they should be truly good enough to be there. Nothing against the kid at all because I think he is a great kid, but we need to be realistic here.

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03-21-2013, 08:58 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post
I agree that Matteo works hard and has some skill and is an easy call-up, but I don't think anything is being held against because of his name. If he wasn't a Ciccarelli, would he have even been drafted by any other team? Unfortunately if players are in positions because of their name, then it is expected they should be truly good enough to be there. Nothing against the kid at all because I think he is a great kid, but we need to be realistic here.
He definitely would have been drafted, quite a bit later albeit, but he would have been drafted.

And things are definitely being held against him, as was pointed out earlier in the thread. Even when he was drafted quite a few people said he was only drafted because of his family.

I think myself and Dean have been very realistic about him. He needs strength and an improved skating ability before he is a real OHL player. It's only more noticeable because of the name on the back of his jersey, which is unfair to him.

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03-21-2013, 10:00 PM
  #255
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"I think if his last name was anything other than "Ciccarelli" then he wouldn't have seen any action this year. It was probably a convenience thing bringing him up when injuries struck but I would agree, I don't think he is ready for the OHL, yet."

These are Dean's words above. Not to speak for him as he speaks very well and honestly about what he sees in my opinion of course. I enjoy and look forward to reading his posts as they never seem to be clouded by his own personal opinions but are honest evaluations of the players. I am sure he knows many of them personally but still calls it as it is.

Matteo seems like a very nice kid and definitely has the eagerness and willingness to improve. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it just isn't enough. I guess time will tell. Players have made teams their parents are involved in since the beginning of time, whether it be Minor Hockey or Junior Hockey. In most cases, it ends up being harder on the player than anyone else. I often wonder why parents feel the need to subject their kids to that. If they are truly good enough, then let another team/coach pick them and then the player can feel better about himself knowing he truly is there based on his own talent and ability.

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03-21-2013, 10:14 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post
"I think if his last name was anything other than "Ciccarelli" then he wouldn't have seen any action this year. It was probably a convenience thing bringing him up when injuries struck but I would agree, I don't think he is ready for the OHL, yet."

These are Dean's words above. Not to speak for him as he speaks very well and honestly about what he sees in my opinion of course. I enjoy and look forward to reading his posts as they never seem to be clouded by his own personal opinions but are honest evaluations of the players. I am sure he knows many of them personally but still calls it as it is.

Matteo seems like a very nice kid and definitely has the eagerness and willingness to improve. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it just isn't enough. I guess time will tell. Players have made teams their parents are involved in since the beginning of time, whether it be Minor Hockey or Junior Hockey. In most cases, it ends up being harder on the player than anyone else. I often wonder why parents feel the need to subject their kids to that. If they are truly good enough, then let another team/coach pick them and then the player can feel better about himself knowing he truly is there based on his own talent and ability.
I'm not sure you understand me entirely.

The only thing I have said that doesn't echo what others are saying is that I don't believe he was called up because of his last name.

Matteo is a competent centerman, who, while not ready to be a full-time OHL player because of some flaws in his game, is not being called up just because he is a Ciccarelli. If you want an example of a player who is playing in the OHL (also on a part time basis) simply because of a familial connection to a club, look at Connor Burgess in Sudbury.

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03-21-2013, 10:24 PM
  #257
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Keep in mind that there were reasons such as contract situations or playing level that made Ciccarelli a more natural call-up than Vendramin, White or Ashley (the Sting couldn't get Ashley into games after Christmas because he's American, for example, and Vendramin was playing midget. White didn't sign a contract until February).
Ciccarelli was here, was under contract, was playing at an acceptable level for the season. He made sense.

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03-21-2013, 10:28 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PdashOw View Post
Keep in mind that there were reasons such as contract situations or playing level that made Ciccarelli a more natural call-up than Vendramin, White or Ashley (the Sting couldn't get Ashley into games after Christmas because he's American, for example, and Vendramin was playing midget. White didn't sign a contract until February).
Ciccarelli was here, was under contract, was playing at an acceptable level for the season. He made sense.
Hit the nail on the head.

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03-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Shaun Bisson View Post
Hit the nail on the head.
I was never referring to the fact Matteo was called up. Of course that is the most logical thing to do by all means. If you need a player and there is one in the neighbourhood who is under contract, of course you call him up. That happens time and time again. The discussion was about what preceded that.

Burgess is exactly my point. Have you ever seen him play? He truly does not belong on an OHL ice surface and the father is embarrassing the poor kid by insisting he is out there. He works his tail off and tries harder than most, but he is not of OHL calibre. I have heard many times that it has caused alot of dissention amongst the team, coaches, scouts, etc. because of it. I can't imagine Larry would do that however with Matteo. At least I would hope not.

Perhaps you know Matteo on a personal level and therefore are defending him a bit more than most because of that, which is admirable. I am just giving my opinion on what I see as a season ticket holder and a loyal fan.

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03-21-2013, 10:58 PM
  #260
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I definitely don't know Matteo personally. I know that I've talked to a few scouts who supported him being drafted. Now, he definitely went earlier than expected but that's the case of the OHL draft. It happens in every round.

He's a hard working kid and I'm sure he will still need to work his way to be a regular, regardless of his name. As I said earlier (and Paul explained clearly), Matteo was called up because of logistics. Going forward, he should have to earn his way onto the roster ...as should every player.

Sarnia has a lot of bodies to accommodate so it won't be easy.

Looking forward to the draft to see who Sarnia snatches up (and to see if they take who I think they might...early and late in the draft)

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03-21-2013, 11:07 PM
  #261
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[QUOTE Looking forward to the draft to see who Sarnia snatches up (and to see if they take who I think they might...early and late in the draft)[/QUOTE]

Care to share your predictions? LOL Any area you think they will concentrate on more? It's hard to believe the draft is in a couple weeks. Seems odd to have it early once again when there is still so much hockey being played. Do you know the reasoning why they moved it from May? I would think that would've been a better time for GM's/Coaches to focus on the draft instead of now when they are in the thick of playoffs.

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03-21-2013, 11:15 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post
Burgess is exactly my point. Have you ever seen him play? He truly does not belong on an OHL ice surface and the father is embarrassing the poor kid by insisting he is out there. He works his tail off and tries harder than most, but he is not of OHL calibre. I have heard many times that it has caused alot of dissention amongst the team, coaches, scouts, etc. because of it. I can't imagine Larry would do that however with Matteo. At least I would hope not.

Perhaps you know Matteo on a personal level and therefore are defending him a bit more than most because of that, which is admirable.
Yes, I have seen Burgess play. I wouldn't have assumed to make a comment about a player's belonging in the league without having any background knowledge of his ability.

I do know Matteo, but I also know a number of players on the team (and other teams - as a prospects writer, it's part of my job) and like to assess each individual fairly. Matteo has a climb in order to reach what is expected of an OHL regular, but it is not his name that has him playing in the OHL when a call up is needed. If that was the case, he wouldn't have been sent to Jr. B to begin with.

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03-21-2013, 11:30 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Shaun Bisson View Post
Yes, I have seen Burgess play. I wouldn't have assumed to make a comment about a player's belonging in the league without having any background knowledge of his ability.

I do know Matteo, but I also know a number of players on the team (and other teams - as a prospects writer, it's part of my job) and like to assess each individual fairly. Matteo has a climb in order to reach what is expected of an OHL regular, but it is not his name that has him playing in the OHL when a call up is needed. If that was the case, he wouldn't have been sent to Jr. B to begin with.
Who do you write for? Just curious as to whether I have seen your work or not as I read ALOT of hockey publications. You must be on the road alot to cover this sport. I was a reporter before retirement, but not sports specific.

As far as Matteo, I wish him all the best and will be cheering him all the way. Only time will tell how it all transpires so we will just wait that one out.

I just hope to see it through - my wife wants to spend more time down south in the winter but I keep buying my season tickets as that is my excuse to stay put. LOL

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03-22-2013, 08:02 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post

Care to share your predictions? LOL Any area you think they will concentrate on more? It's hard to believe the draft is in a couple weeks. Seems odd to have it early once again when there is still so much hockey being played. Do you know the reasoning why they moved it from May? I would think that would've been a better time for GM's/Coaches to focus on the draft instead of now when they are in the thick of playoffs.
Honestly, any players I mentioned would be pure guesses with no backing. I could speculate on the players' I'd be interested in adding.

I think they need to address top 6 skill with their 9th overall pick and they sit nicely in a position where a player should fall to them, especially with Day being added to the mix. It's a bit disappointing that Sarnia doesn't own their 2nd rd pick (very valuable in the OHL Draft) because there will be several players that should fall to the second round. However, maybe they can trade up.

With their 9th pick, potential players that would fit nicely:

- Nikita Korostelev (Toronto Jr Canadiens) - scoring winger with lots of potential. Would look nice next to Goldobin
- Mitchell Stephens (Toronto Marlboros) - speedy skilled winger that plays both ends of the ice well. Likes to get physical too. Captain of the Marlies
- Michael Davies (Southern Tier Admirals) - Excellent all around player who I feel could develop into one of the more productive OHLers. Great shot
- Blake Speers (Soo Thunder) - one of the best skaters of the draft. Very intelligent playmaking centre. I like him A LOT but he could be targeted by one of the northern teams (Soo or Sudbury )
- Brett McKenzie (Oakville Rangers) - probably won't be available at 9th but he'd be the best fit for Sarnia. Big smooth skating forward with good puck skills. Loads of potential
- Lawson Crouse (Elgin Middlesex Chiefs) - budding power forward with tons of skill. Looks to be a higher pick than sting hold so he probably won't be available. Reminds me of Corey Perry at times.
- Dennis Yan (Detroit Belle Tire) - Russian playing out of DET but was with the Lambton Sting last year. A dynamic skating forward, Yan has US options so unless Sarnia is 100% sure he'd report, he remains a long shot in round 1

Potential D at 1st pick:
Cameron Lizotte (Nickel City Sons) - probably my favourite D outside of Day and Spencer. Loads of intangibles. Smooth skating intelligent defenseman.

Kyle Capobianco (Oakville Rangers) - elite skating D that operates the PP very well.

Troy Henley (Oakville Rangers) - huge potential. Very mobile defenseman that loves handling the puck. Hits like a train. Has options in US too

Those are the players i think Sarnia has within their reach at 9th overall pick.

I wish I knew all of the picks they owned later in the draft so I could speculate more later in the draft.


Sarnia is in close proximity to Elgin-Middlesex, London ( Gold and Green), Sun County and Chatham so they could have interest in the following players:

Noah Bushnell ( Sun County) - tenacious forward that loves muching it up. He'd add some much needed grit and his net drive would be great for Sarnia. However, likely a 2nd rd pick. I "think" Sarnia loves him. Just a guess

Adam Craeivich (Oakville) - The OHL Cup MVP is slated to be a late 1st/Early 2nd so as it stands currently, Sarnia doesnt own the picks to get this Sarnia born player. Great shot.

Jesse Barwell (Oakville ) - love love LOVE this player. Soooo smart. Played on a deep team so he doesn't get the recognition that he deserves. He's going to be an excellent OHL player. Again, he will probably be selected before Sarnia can pick him.

Trent Fox (London Knights Gold) - power forward with good puck protection skills. Should be a 3rd + rd pick so he would be available to Sarnia. Brother of Erie's Dane Fox

Josh Coyle (Elgin Middlesex Chiefs) - high potential forward that shows flashes of high skill. Confidence issues leaves him playing inconsistently at times but he owns the size and skill to be a good OHL player.

Noah Carroll (Elgin middlesex Chiefs) - looks as though teams are liking him as an early 2nd eound selection but Carroll is liked by Sarnia for sure. Smart two way defender.

Mitchell Kreis (Halton Hurricanes) - good skating defenseman who moves the puck well.

Drew Worrad (Elgin) - scoring two way forward. Brother to former London knight Jake Worrad. Has a knack for finding the spots on the ice to score.

Carson Brookshaw (Elgin) - tenascious forward with a mom-stop motor. He's look good as a middle round selection for Sarnia. Despite being smaller, he owns excellent balance and flattens much larger opponents.

Anthony Kim (Elgin) - one of the drafts best skaters. Flawless. Inconsistent at times but he has great offensive skills if he can put them all together. NCAA bound? maybe

Leo Stolpe (Elgin) - defensive specialist from Sweden. May get overlooked with so many good players on Elgin. I like him a lot.

Hayden Broomhead (Elgin) - no one standout skill but he does everything well. He should be a middle-to-late selection

Brendan Johnston (Chatham Kent Cyclones) - high potential G playing on an underwhelming team. May slide as he gets overlooked playing in Chatham.

Drew Malette (Chatham Kent) - potential late round pick. Found his offensive game this year.



Off the top of my head, those are the players I remember from games I viewed this year. I'm sure I'm missing some potential targets. Like I said, just a few names (local) to watch.

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03-22-2013, 09:32 AM
  #265
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[QUOTE=dean youngblood82;62163107]Honestly, any players I mentioned would be pure guesses with no backing. I could speculate on the players' I'd be interested in adding.

WOW! What an impressive list! You obvioulsy spend alot of time watching these kids. I don't get to midget games but I will be watching for these names now that I know of them.
I guess it is safe to say the Sting will be a young team next year as they rebuild once again. All part of the process of course so I hope the fans will support the young talent we have and tear them apart as they learn and develop to be a team of the future.
What is your prediction on the morning of what will be a tough play-off series against Plymouth?

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03-22-2013, 10:29 AM
  #266
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[QUOTE=SarniaSting101;62166239]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean youngblood82 View Post
Honestly, any players I mentioned would be pure guesses with no backing. I could speculate on the players' I'd be interested in adding.

WOW! What an impressive list! You obvioulsy spend alot of time watching these kids. I don't get to midget games but I will be watching for these names now that I know of them.
I guess it is safe to say the Sting will be a young team next year as they rebuild once again. All part of the process of course so I hope the fans will support the young talent we have and tear them apart as they learn and develop to be a team of the future.
What is your prediction on the morning of what will be a tough play-off series against Plymouth?
I liked your rebuild again ... part of the process... top teams don't seem to do it. Plymouth, London, Kitchener...they seem to be steady...and add to the mix year after year. Not sure when any of those teams had a top 4 pick but it has been a long long time. Next year, a young team, and certain a trying year for fans.
Personally I think Whalers in 5 or 6 (being optimistic).

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03-22-2013, 11:00 AM
  #267
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[QUOTE=dansk55;62168597]
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Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post

I liked your rebuild again ... part of the process... top teams don't seem to do it. Plymouth, London, Kitchener...they seem to be steady...and add to the mix year after year. Not sure when any of those teams had a top 4 pick but it has been a long long time. Next year, a young team, and certain a trying year for fans.
Personally I think Whalers in 5 or 6 (being optimistic).
I often wonder how those teams never seem to go through a "rebuild". I am not saying I like it, but it just seems that this is how it is in Sarnia.

How do those top teams do it? Draft better to provide depth year after year? Develop 3rd and 4th lines to be producers when they lose their top lines? There has to be a reason for it, and one that Sarnia hasn't figure out yet.

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03-22-2013, 11:20 AM
  #268
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What about goaltending for you guys? Will Barrick be able carry the load with only 6 OHL starts under his belt? And I'm pretty sure Rivers is going NCAA.

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03-22-2013, 12:00 PM
  #269
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[QUOTE=SarniaSting101;62169847]
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Originally Posted by dansk55 View Post

I often wonder how those teams never seem to go through a "rebuild". I am not saying I like it, but it just seems that this is how it is in Sarnia.

How do those top teams do it? Draft better to provide depth year after year? Develop 3rd and 4th lines to be producers when they lose their top lines? There has to be a reason for it, and one that Sarnia hasn't figure out yet.
SS 101, not a slag, i totally agree. Why is that we constantly rebuild? I do wonder at the power at the top of the SS organization. One man pulls the string... coach gm head scout, etc...
How can you do all of these jobs effectively? I don't think you can and perhaps that will explain why we go into a funk. While others like the "future" we have on the bench, i must be blind. There are a half dozen i'd part with in a heartbeat.
As for goaltending, i don't think we have found the right tender. Just sayin'

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03-22-2013, 12:33 PM
  #270
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[QUOTE=dansk55;62173761]
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Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post

SS 101, not a slag, i totally agree. Why is that we constantly rebuild? I do wonder at the power at the top of the SS organization. One man pulls the string... coach gm head scout, etc...
How can you do all of these jobs effectively? I don't think you can and perhaps that will explain why we go into a funk. While others like the "future" we have on the bench, i must be blind. There are a half dozen i'd part with in a heartbeat.
As for goaltending, i don't think we have found the right tender. Just sayin'
Having one person do it all is also a good reason.....can't be coaching and scouting at the same time. If you go on other team's websites, they all have a Head Scout and a Head Coach, not one and the same.

I think Barrick will be okay. He doesn't have a ton of experience due to his injury this year but I have liked what I have seen of him. It's all about development, right? If he isn't up for the task, then I am sure JB will bring in a more experienced goalie. Until that happens, we need to support the young team they will be next year and watch them develop and ultimately improve.

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03-22-2013, 12:50 PM
  #271
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[QUOTE=dansk55;62173761][QUOTE=SarniaSting101;62169847]

SS 101, not a slag, i totally agree. Why is that we constantly rebuild? I do wonder at the power at the top of the SS organization. One man pulls the string... coach gm head scout, etc...
How can you do all of these jobs effectively? I don't think you can and perhaps that will explain why we go into a funk. While others like the "future" we have on the bench, i must be blind. There are a half dozen i'd part with in a heartbeat.
As for goaltending, i don't think we have found the right tender. Just sayin'[/QUOTE

I took on a few games when I was in Sudbury and the Soo area . Had the chance to go watch Jr A and Midget , Both games Audet was in net . I can see him stepping right in next year. Big Goalie . Looks like he his 6'3 6'4. Also watched Vendramin in February kid looks real good . I think he as the potential to be a good 2nd line play maker by Christmas.

Also got to watch Cam Ashley . Kid looked great . he was all over the ice working corners . His speed was better then any players on both teams. I think he will also be a great fit for years to come.

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03-22-2013, 01:07 PM
  #272
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[QUOTE=HockeyCritics;62176699][QUOTE=dansk55;62173761]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post

SS 101, not a slag, i totally agree. Why is that we constantly rebuild? I do wonder at the power at the top of the SS organization. One man pulls the string... coach gm head scout, etc...
How can you do all of these jobs effectively? I don't think you can and perhaps that will explain why we go into a funk. While others like the "future" we have on the bench, i must be blind. There are a half dozen i'd part with in a heartbeat.
As for goaltending, i don't think we have found the right tender. Just sayin'[/QUOTE

I took on a few games when I was in Sudbury and the Soo area . Had the chance to go watch Jr A and Midget , Both games Audet was in net . I can see him stepping right in next year. Big Goalie . Looks like he his 6'3 6'4. Also watched Vendramin in February kid looks real good . I think he as the potential to be a good 2nd line play maker by Christmas.

Also got to watch Cam Ashley . Kid looked great . he was all over the ice working corners . His speed was better then any players on both teams. I think he will also be a great fit for years to come.
Thanks for the updates,As a season ticket holder it kind of makes you wonder whats in store for next year or do you sit the season out for a year or 2.

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03-22-2013, 01:42 PM
  #273
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[QUOTE=SarniaSting101;62169847]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansk55 View Post

I often wonder how those teams never seem to go through a "rebuild". I am not saying I like it, but it just seems that this is how it is in Sarnia.

How do those top teams do it? Draft better to provide depth year after year? Develop 3rd and 4th lines to be producers when they lose their top lines? There has to be a reason for it, and one that Sarnia hasn't figure out yet.
It's not just 3rd or 4 th liners that carry teams like London. You have to consistently hit on your drafts and that means pulling 7 to 8 players from each draft. Hunters drafting the last few years has been stellar and then they continue to add free agents that no team wanted. London also paid big prices to draft Maata, Zadorov and that was smart management knowing when to sell. When the Knight,s moved a pile of players out in 09, 10 it was around the plan to build with all their assets at the right time.

Having JB run the whole show in Sarnia is likely the best solution for them and that market. He is a pretty sharp operator and got that team winning ona more regular basis now. He also has them setup moving forward with lots of picks. Many smaller market teams use one guy to run them and Belleville is good example.....they seem to be doing fine also.

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03-22-2013, 02:53 PM
  #274
truestingfan
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[QUOTE=HockeyCritics;62176699][QUOTE=dansk55;62173761]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarniaSting101 View Post

SS 101, not a slag, i totally agree. Why is that we constantly rebuild? I do wonder at the power at the top of the SS organization. One man pulls the string... coach gm head scout, etc...
How can you do all of these jobs effectively? I don't think you can and perhaps that will explain why we go into a funk. While others like the "future" we have on the bench, i must be blind. There are a half dozen i'd part with in a heartbeat.
As for goaltending, i don't think we have found the right tender. Just sayin'[/QUOTE

I took on a few games when I was in Sudbury and the Soo area . Had the chance to go watch Jr A and Midget , Both games Audet was in net . I can see him stepping right in next year. Big Goalie . Looks like he his 6'3 6'4. Also watched Vendramin in February kid looks real good . I think he as the potential to be a good 2nd line play maker by Christmas.

Also got to watch Cam Ashley . Kid looked great . he was all over the ice working corners . His speed was better then any players on both teams. I think he will also be a great fit for years to come.
Careful on anointing Cam. he was cut from his first team this year, playing "jr.z" according to our radio, had to go to Ohio to play m midget, (why didn't Michigan AAA teams want him?? ) and being from Saginaw, you would think that they would draft from their backyard if the opportunity presented itself. But I am for giving the kid a chance.

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03-22-2013, 03:07 PM
  #275
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[QUOTE=truestingfan;62183031][QUOTE=HockeyCritics;62176699]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansk55 View Post

Careful on anointing Cam. he was cut from his first team this year, playing "jr.z" according to our radio, had to go to Ohio to play m midget, (why didn't Michigan AAA teams want him?? ) and being from Saginaw, you would think that they would draft from their backyard if the opportunity presented itself. But I am for giving the kid a chance.
He asked not to be drafted in Saginaw because he did not want the pressure of playing in his hometown and felt he would be better served and could play more relaxed in another city.

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