HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Notices

Proposed Rule Changes

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-21-2013, 03:23 PM
  #26
1857 Howitzer
******* Linesman
 
1857 Howitzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The way that college coaches have pitched it, it would be for a skater leaving his feet to block a shot. The standing block and a sliding block (on a 2-on-1, taking away the pass) would remain, but skaters basically acting like mobile butterfly goalies would be outlawed.



From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.

Blowing the play dead and having a faceoff would actually serve as an incentive to engage in the most boring play in hockey.
Good point. I'm not sure how you enforce it then without being penalty. Maybe a penalty shot? Or do you allow it but take some of the protection away?

__________________
@Aportzline: RT @skeezer1212: @Aportzline are you on record about if you think they should trade Nash, *Carter? / Not my place. Reporter, not columnist.
1857 Howitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:24 PM
  #27
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Good point. I'm not sure how you enforce it then without being penalty. Maybe a penalty shot? Or do you allow it but take some of the protection away?
The easiest way would be to just make it a penalty. A skater could slide to take away a pass or stand to take away a shot, but leaving one or both feet to block a shot would be a minor penalty.

And as Marc Methot showed repeatedly while he was here, a defender kicking at a puck is likely to end up in the back of the net.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:30 PM
  #28
1857 Howitzer
******* Linesman
 
1857 Howitzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,046
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The easiest way would be to just make it a penalty. A skater could slide to take away a pass or stand to take away a shot, but leaving one or both feet to block a shot would be a minor penalty.

And as Marc Methot showed repeatedly while he was here, a defender kicking at a puck is likely to end up in the back of the net.
Makes since, but it does give the refs another chance to be inconstant on something else.

What we really need is lasers and robots!

1857 Howitzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:46 PM
  #29
Sore Loser
Since 2009
 
Sore Loser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Spokane, WA.
Country: United States
Posts: 5,919
vCash: 500
I think all three are a fine idea.

Sore Loser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 03:47 PM
  #30
Friedrich
This is not my hat.
 
Friedrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Salzburg
Country: Austria
Posts: 2,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The way that college coaches have pitched it, it would be for a skater leaving his feet to block a shot. The standing block and a sliding block (on a 2-on-1, taking away the pass) would remain, but skaters basically acting like mobile butterfly goalies would be outlawed.



From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.

To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.

Blowing the play dead and having a faceoff would actually serve as an incentive to engage in the most boring play in hockey.
I'm a little confused by "leaving his feet." Wouldn't laying on the ice to block a pass technically be leaving your feet? Also, what is someone gets tripped up and falls? If it were a penalty, I can see opposing players trying to hit fallen players with the puck in an attempt to draw a penalty.

Friedrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 04:56 PM
  #31
EspenK
Registered User
 
EspenK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,767
vCash: 500
As usual I'm going to be in the minority here, but these Jackets' wins on this streak to me have been pretty boring. Its been like watching midgets skating up and down the ice without getting a good shot or any shot for that matter. Give me an occasional 5-4 or 6-5 game and I'd be happier. Make the goalie equipment smaller.

EspenK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 06:21 PM
  #32
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.
Sure seem to be quite a number guys limping off, though, and not a few of them are out for a period of time.

Quote:
To me, it would be like legalizing pass interference in football. If there's a defensive player who can't contain a receiver, just pull him down...it's basically a talentless play that suffocates the offense without repercussion.
Wouldn't it be more like a pass rusher putting his arms up and blocking a pass?

pete goegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 06:50 PM
  #33
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Wouldn't it be more like a pass rusher putting his arms up and blocking a pass?
Fair enough. Of course, that's still interference unless it's ruled that the defender was making a play on the ball.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #34
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Fair enough. Of course, that's still interference unless it's ruled that the defender was making a play on the ball.
We may not be talking about the same thing, MB, interference involves contact with the receiver.

pete goegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 10:07 PM
  #35
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
We may not be talking about the same thing, MB, interference involves contact with the receiver.
I was going for the face-guarding provision of the rule, which the NFL removed a few years back. I know in high school, it's still there. And interference in high school isn't limited to catchable passes either; if it's 20 yards out of bounds but there's contact downfield, it still gets called.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 10:19 PM
  #36
pete goegan
HFBoards Sponsor
 
pete goegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,433
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I was going for the face-guarding provision of the rule, which the NFL removed a few years back. I know in high school, it's still there. And interference in high school isn't limited to catchable passes either; if it's 20 yards out of bounds but there's contact downfield, it still gets called.
I believe shot blocking in hockey is more analogous to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line of scrimmage.


Last edited by pete goegan: 03-22-2013 at 07:39 AM.
pete goegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 10:29 PM
  #37
major major
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
From my perspective, the improvements in equipment over the years have taken away the "sacrifice" and "heart" involved in blocking shots. It's become the lowest common denominator; 99% of players do it well, which is a pretty good indicator that it's less of a skill than it used to be.
I don't agree. I'm not familiar with any new equipment that can keep a 90 mph shot from breaking your foot. Maybe there is new equipment somewhere that is having an effect, but guys get hurt almost every game blocking shots.

I think more players do it because coaches have made it mandatory, if you don't block you don't play. It's still a huge sacrifice.

major major is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-21-2013, 11:06 PM
  #38
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
I don't agree. I'm not familiar with any new equipment that can keep a 90 mph shot from breaking your foot. Maybe there is new equipment somewhere that is having an effect, but guys get hurt almost every game blocking shots.

I think more players do it because coaches have made it mandatory, if you don't block you don't play. It's still a huge sacrifice.
Hal Gill was the first one I can remember who had actual external pads on his skates. Before that, I remember Bauer selling some type of goop in a can. The stuff looked like tar and smelled even worse, but the idea was to basically add this to the outside of the skate. It would harden, and thus dampen the impact of a puck hitting the foot.

There was a time when taking a shot off the foot meant that it was broken, and that taking a shot off the shin (unless you were Craig Ludwig, who'd park his truck on top of his shin guards) would at least sideline you for a couple of games. With a couple of notable exceptions (like Wisniewski), most guys are coming up with a limp and nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
I believe shot blocking in hockey is more analogous to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line of scrimmage.
I disagree, mostly because the prevalence of shot blocking in the NHL is so much higher than in the NFL.

I'll give one team. Colorado has played 29 games so far this season, and they have allowed 939 shots on goal. They also have blocked 511 shot attempts, and another 295 missed the target completely without being blocked. That means that out of 1,745 attempted shots:
- 939 reached either the goalie or the back of the net (53.8%)
- 511 were blocked by a defender before reaching goal (29.3%)
- 295 missed completely (16.9%)

These aren't shockingly skewed numbers either. The average number of blocked shots per game has been in the 27-29 range for a couple of years now.

Now, in the NFL, here's what we have. In 2012, Houston led the league in passes defended. This includes passes tipped at the line or downfield by someone either swatting the ball away or attempting to intercept a pass (and failing). They had 124 PDs (which led the league) and 15 interceptions. There were 581 actual pass attempts against the Texans. Of course, passing is only part of the game; Houston had another 390 rushing attempts against.

So out of a total of 971 offensive plays against, 12.77% involved a pass being knocked down...or maybe it was an attempted interception that didn't go. Also keep in mind that Houston's defense this year was a major story because of their front 7 (particularly JJ Watt) seeming to get their hands on a huge percentage of passes. But no one talks about Colorado's shot blocking in the NHL, because everyone has these huge numbers of blocked shots. We may talk about the Rangers, but they're 6th in the league right now and didn't lead the league last year either.

We're talking about 25% of the attempted shots in the league.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=204

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 12:24 AM
  #39
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: KY & Lime Lake NY
Country: United States
Posts: 30,143
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
No brainer.... institute all three....

Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 01:12 AM
  #40
major major
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,365
vCash: 500
More and more folks are calling for extending overtime another 5 minutes.

I'm also tiring of shootouts, and it seems many others are too. We will likely hear more proposals for ending games that don't involve shootouts, although I'd be fine with just reducing the number of shootouts. Make them unusual.

I would have another 5 minutes added to overtime with 3 skaters a side. I think it would make for some really exciting hockey and a lot more hockey endings (i.e. not shootout endings.)

major major is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 01:21 AM
  #41
georgiabluejacket
Registered User
 
georgiabluejacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Makes since, but it does give the refs another chance to be inconstant on something else.

What we really need is lasers and robots!
Let's be far here, everything needs lasers

georgiabluejacket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 01:26 AM
  #42
davidbklyn
Registered User
 
davidbklyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Hal Gill was the first one I can remember who had actual external pads on his skates. Before that, I remember Bauer selling some type of goop in a can. The stuff looked like tar and smelled even worse, but the idea was to basically add this to the outside of the skate. It would harden, and thus dampen the impact of a puck hitting the foot.

There was a time when taking a shot off the foot meant that it was broken, and that taking a shot off the shin (unless you were Craig Ludwig, who'd park his truck on top of his shin guards) would at least sideline you for a couple of games. With a couple of notable exceptions (like Wisniewski), most guys are coming up with a limp and nothing more.



I disagree, mostly because the prevalence of shot blocking in the NHL is so much higher than in the NFL.

I'll give one team. Colorado has played 29 games so far this season, and they have allowed 939 shots on goal. They also have blocked 511 shot attempts, and another 295 missed the target completely without being blocked. That means that out of 1,745 attempted shots:
- 939 reached either the goalie or the back of the net (53.8%)
- 511 were blocked by a defender before reaching goal (29.3%)
- 295 missed completely (16.9%)

These aren't shockingly skewed numbers either. The average number of blocked shots per game has been in the 27-29 range for a couple of years now.

Now, in the NFL, here's what we have. In 2012, Houston led the league in passes defended. This includes passes tipped at the line or downfield by someone either swatting the ball away or attempting to intercept a pass (and failing). They had 124 PDs (which led the league) and 15 interceptions. There were 581 actual pass attempts against the Texans. Of course, passing is only part of the game; Houston had another 390 rushing attempts against.

So out of a total of 971 offensive plays against, 12.77% involved a pass being knocked down...or maybe it was an attempted interception that didn't go. Also keep in mind that Houston's defense this year was a major story because of their front 7 (particularly JJ Watt) seeming to get their hands on a huge percentage of passes. But no one talks about Colorado's shot blocking in the NHL, because everyone has these huge numbers of blocked shots. We may talk about the Rangers, but they're 6th in the league right now and didn't lead the league last year either.

We're talking about 25% of the attempted shots in the league.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=204
Well, are you saying that shot blocking in the NHL has no comparison? Pete was saying it compares more to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line than it does to secondary players defensing passes at the point of reception. I'm inclined to agree with him. Corners defensing passes seems more analogous to goaltenders stopping shots. Anyway, it seems like you're analysis doesn't correspond to his point.

Also, it seems like if you want to compare pass attempts in football to shots on goal in hockey statistically, shouldn't you NOT include rushing attempts in the overall tally? Your percentages wind up different if you include plays that have no NHL comparison (rushing attempts). Your 12.77% represents total offensive plays against, which means passes defensed suffers on rushing plays. What would the number be on just passing plays?

davidbklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 01:26 AM
  #43
davidbklyn
Registered User
 
davidbklyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiabluejacket View Post
Let's be far here, everything needs lasers
far out

davidbklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 01:37 AM
  #44
jdhebner
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: I ain't cousin Basil
Posts: 801
vCash: 500
I'm sure as hell in favor of Eye protection. I wrote an article for our local newspaper soon after the Bryan Berard incident (waaaay back in 2000). I got to interview an NHL player whose career was basically saved by his wearing a visor. If I can dig it up I''ll post it.

__________________
47 Flavors of Goal Celebrations.
jdhebner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 05:54 AM
  #45
georgiabluejacket
Registered User
 
georgiabluejacket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
far out
I did spell fair wrong didn't I. That's what I get for posting at 1 in the morning when I should be working

georgiabluejacket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 06:05 AM
  #46
Columbus Mike
Next CBJ GM
 
Columbus Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 708
vCash: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by major major View Post
More and more folks are calling for extending overtime another 5 minutes.

I'm also tiring of shootouts, and it seems many others are too. We will likely hear more proposals for ending games that don't involve shootouts, although I'd be fine with just reducing the number of shootouts. Make them unusual.

I would have another 5 minutes added to overtime with 3 skaters a side. I think it would make for some really exciting hockey and a lot more hockey endings (i.e. not shootout endings.)
I'm not opposed to this, but only if you get three points for a regulation win. I hate that games settled by gimmicks are worth the same as those won the old fashioned way.

3 pts for regulation win
2 pts for OT/SO win
1 pt for OT/SO loss

Or, just let there be ties.

Columbus Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 02:05 PM
  #47
RDriesenUD
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,902
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbus Mike View Post
I'm not opposed to this, but only if you get three points for a regulation win. I hate that games settled by gimmicks are worth the same as those won the old fashioned way.

3 pts for regulation win
2 pts for OT/SO win
1 pt for OT/SO loss

Or, just let there be ties.
A friend and I were talking about this last week. That is basically what we came up with.

RDriesenUD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 03:15 PM
  #48
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
Well, are you saying that shot blocking in the NHL has no comparison? Pete was saying it compares more to defensive linemen batting down passes at the line than it does to secondary players defensing passes at the point of reception. I'm inclined to agree with him. Corners defensing passes seems more analogous to goaltenders stopping shots. Anyway, it seems like you're analysis doesn't correspond to his point.
The rule for defensive players getting their hands on a pass is to just get a hand on it. If it's swatted down, great. If it's popped up in the air, that's even better. A good number of interceptions come off of tipped passes. How many breakaways going the other way come off of a blocked shot?

Quote:
Also, it seems like if you want to compare pass attempts in football to shots on goal in hockey statistically, shouldn't you NOT include rushing attempts in the overall tally? Your percentages wind up different if you include plays that have no NHL comparison (rushing attempts). Your 12.77% represents total offensive plays against, which means passes defensed suffers on rushing plays. What would the number be on just passing plays?
The number is 21.3% if you go with just passing plays. But I'll argue that rushing attempts [I]should/I] be included. The first purpose of the offense is to get the ball into the end zone. That can be done with either running or passing. But in hockey, where the point is to put the puck into the net, the only way that happens (okay, in 99.9% of cases) is by a shot being taken by an offensive player.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 04:03 PM
  #49
davidbklyn
Registered User
 
davidbklyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 1,724
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The rule for defensive players getting their hands on a pass is to just get a hand on it. If it's swatted down, great. If it's popped up in the air, that's even better. A good number of interceptions come off of tipped passes. How many breakaways going the other way come off of a blocked shot?
Ha, you may want to ask Rangers fans that question, but phrase it "how many short-handed empty net goals are scored off blocked Marian Gaborik shots?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The number is 21.3% if you go with just passing plays. But I'll argue that rushing attempts [I]should/I] be included. The first purpose of the offense is to get the ball into the end zone. That can be done with either running or passing. But in hockey, where the point is to put the puck into the net, the only way that happens (okay, in 99.9% of cases) is by a shot being taken by an offensive player.
still chewing on this. trying to decide then whether passes in hockey that are either not completed or intercepted should be included, since you're offering a global understanding of football offense but a partial view of hockey offense. I'm inclined to say that because the two sports are so different, a statistical comparison of them shouldn't be used to support an argument for penalizing blocked shots in hockey.

davidbklyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-22-2013, 04:27 PM
  #50
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbklyn View Post
I'm inclined to say that because the two sports are so different, a statistical comparison of them shouldn't be used to support an argument for penalizing blocked shots in hockey.
Fair enough.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.