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Rank the 1st overall forwards of the last 15 years in "skill"

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:54 AM
  #51
Joey Moss
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It's impossible to rank any of the Oilers guys fairly because they aren't established.. if you're ranking based on now then obviously they are at the bottom, but then I'd have to ask.. what is the point in putting them in there? Cutting it off at Tavares would leave it for a fair poll. Another question is how are we ranking them by? Prime? Present? Future? If you're asking me where I think these players will be at in the future in terms of skill I'd rank it something like this:

Crosby
Kane
Kovalchuk
Tavares
Stamkos
Yakupov
Nugent-Hopkins
Ovechkin
Nash
Hall
Thornton
Lecavalier
Stefan

Remember, skill and best players are two different things. I don't see Stamkos as much of a dangler or finesse guy. He's more one dimensional than some of the guys in the way that he's an elite shooter and that's how he has success (same with Ovechkin). Same for Thornton, but as a passer. Patrick Kane has some of the best hands in the league but he can also snipe and pass accurately which would make him top 3 on this kind of list because he does more than Stamkos or Thornton in that regard. I see Yakupov as having the best potential to be the guy out of the Oilers group who can do more things at a top notch level. Good hands, great shot, strong passer etc.. Hall is a straight line guy who makes a name for himself by everything you decided to not include for the rankings. (how ironic, from the Hall hater) He doesn't have elite hands.. I'd say he has a good shot just not an accurate one like a Stamkos.

Weird poll all in all, IMO. Really hard to rank accurately.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:53 AM
  #52
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Crosby
Thornton
Ovechkin
Stamkos
Lecavalier
Tavares
Kovalchuk
Kane
Nash
Yakupov
Hall
Stepan

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Old
03-22-2013, 03:58 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plumsandpeaches View Post
Crosby
Thornton
Ovechkin
Stamkos
Lecavalier
Tavares
Kovalchuk
Kane
Nash
Yakupov
Hall
Stepan

lol is RNH not on the list because he's just that much better than crosby?

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:04 AM
  #54
maroon 6
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lol is RNH not on the list because he's just that much better than crosby?
He also didnt put Stefan in there. I think he left them both out cause they're both bust's.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:04 AM
  #55
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Crosby
Kovalchuk
Kane
Ovechkin
Tavares
Lecavalier
Thornton
Stamkos
Nash
RNH
Hall
Yakupov
Stefan.

it's weird seeing people putting Vinny near the bottom of their lists. it's like they forgot what an insanely dominant force he used to be before all the injuries.

also, the Oil kids are at the bottom because, well, they haven't really had a chance to shine yet.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:21 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
Crosby
Kovalchuk
Kane
Ovechkin
Tavares
Lecavalier
Thornton
Stamkos
Nash
RNH
Hall
Yakupov
Stefan.

it's weird seeing people putting Vinny near the bottom of their lists. it's like they forgot what an insanely dominant force he used to be before all the injuries.

also, the Oil kids are at the bottom because, well, they haven't really had a chance to shine yet.
As they should be. But these lists could definitely change in the next 2-4 years.

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Old
03-22-2013, 05:29 AM
  #57
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My list. TIFWIW.

2005 - Crosby
2007 - Kane
2009 - Tavares
2001 - Kovalchuk
2008 - Stamkos
2004 - Ovechkin
1997 - Thornton
1998 - Lecavalier
2002 - Nash
1999 - Stefan

All very close except Stefan, and left off of the Oilers. Too soon. They are all very skilled but haven't had a chance to mature yet.
2010 - Hall
2011 - RNH
2012 - Yakupov

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Old
03-22-2013, 05:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NewFang View Post
You have a point. But I do believe that Crosby has better passing, and skating than Kovalchuk. Kovalchuk has a better shot though.
Don't forget that Kovalchuk's 6'3" 230 lbs. He's a fantastic skater for a player of his size.

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Old
03-22-2013, 06:01 AM
  #59
Balls Mahoney
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1. Crosby
2. Thornton
3. Ovechkin
4. Kovalchuk
5. Kane
6. Stamkos
7. Tavares
8. Lecavalier
9. Hall
10. Nash
11. RHN
12. Yakupov
13. Stefan

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #60
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IMO it's:
Kane
Kovy
Sid
AO

Then it becomes hard, but there's no way Kane and Kovalchuk aren't 1-2 I think, in the end, what so special about Crosby...

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:47 AM
  #61
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2005 - Crosby
2009 - Tavares
2001 - Kovalchuk
2007 - Kane
2004 - Ovechkin
2008 - Stamkos
2011 - RNH
2002 - Nash
2012 - Yakupov
1997 - Thornton
1998 - Lecavalier
2010 - Hall
1999 - Stefan

This list is true to the OP, ranked on "skill" only. Stick-handling, dangling the puck, etc. Ranking their overall hockey abilities would results in a different list.

EDIT: People with Thornton ranked high are obviously not following the OP. The guy uses his size a lot more than dangling.

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
2005 - Crosby
2009 - Tavares
2001 - Kovalchuk
2007 - Kane
2004 - Ovechkin
2008 - Stamkos
2011 - RNH
2002 - Nash
2012 - Yakupov
1997 - Thornton
1998 - Lecavalier
2010 - Hall
1999 - Stefan

This list is true to the OP, ranked on "skill" only. Stick-handling, dangling the puck, etc. Ranking their overall hockey abilities would results in a different list.

EDIT: People with Thornton ranked high are obviously not following the OP. The guy uses his size a lot more than dangling.
those sick passes he's made a living from aren't exactly due to his size.

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:04 AM
  #63
Razor29
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A little unfair to the Oil kids.

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:58 AM
  #64
JDinkalage Morgoone
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A lot of people have Kovy way too low... I think after Crosby and Ovi, Kovalchuk belongs right up there.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:01 AM
  #65
unknown33
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That Ovi guy was pretty good though, for having no skill.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:23 AM
  #66
Trafalgar Law
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Can we not include the two who've yet to play 100 games? They haven't even had a chance to really show what they can do yet.

Crosby
Ovechkin
Kovalchuk
Kane
Tavares
Nash
Stamkos
Hall
Lecavalier
Thornton
Stefan

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:26 PM
  #67
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Ilya Kovalchuk - I feel like he's the sturdiest package of physical tools out of all of them. Built like a bull, explosive skating, seamless puckhandling, passing and sniping ability. It's almost like the prime Alex Ovechkin had belonged to Ilya Kovalchuk, it's baffling he didn't peak higher as an offensive force.

Alexander Ovechkin - basically the same sturdy frame and hybrid powerforward/sniper package of Kovalchuk, explosive skating, passing and sniping ability, and elite stickhandling, deking, even though I have this image of his puckhandling as being a lot more sloppy than Kovalchuk. Actually, I'd characterize Ovechkin's whole on ice personality as a lot more sloppy than Kovalchuk. I can't describe this properly, but he has this casual swagger on the PP, for example, whereas Kovalchuk is more barely contained explosiveness. Not really a criticism, just a comment.

Sidney Crosby - obviously the best package of pure domination from his hockey sense to his balance and skating to his arsenal of shots and passing in terms of on ice effectiveness. I don't think that can be debated. But his skills package doesn't quite stand out as apparently as Ovechkin and Kovalchuk.

Patrick Kane - incredible package of hands, speed, vision. He's like a throwback to those 80s era franchise players like Yzerman, Savard, Lafontaine, etc.

Steven Stamkos - aside from the fact that their games are nothing alike, the way he moves around the ice reminds me a lot of Sergei Fedorov for some reason. I'd chalk it up to pure athleticism, skating and puckhandling to some degree. I think Stamkos has an expansive toolset that could allow him to be much more of a one strike sniper he is today.

Marc-Andre Fleury - ridiculously athletic goalie with perhaps Hasek-like physical tools except for a lack of brain and composure to be an all-time great. As a goalie, he really has some remarkable reflexes that makes him comparable to first overall talents.

Rick Nash - I don't really like Rick Nash as a real world player, but if you watch him as a human highlight reel, he looks a lot like Malkin, pulling off Patrick Kane type moves with a power forward body, but his level of dominance always seems to come up short.

John Tavares - I'd characterize him as a bit of a Crosby-lite in terms of a multi-tooled guy who has incredible hands, vision and wants to control the game all over the ice, but aside from his great hands especially in tight, his 'skills' don't seem to be on display as explicitly as an Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, for example.

Vincent Lecavalier - maybe it's a function of "what could have been" in terms of looking at his brief peak, but a 50 goal scoring, 100 point center with the size, speed, puckhandling/deking and shot arsenal of a Lecavalier is hard to pass up over Joe Thornton projected over a full, healthy and consistent career.

Joe Thornton - prototypical big franchise centerman skillset, likes to slow down the play, has great wingspan to protect the puck, elite vision, passing, etc. I'd just rank him a hair under Lecavalier because he isn't as explosive in terms of visible skills and wow factor, even though he was a far more productive player.

Rick Dipietro - had the potential to be a "Brodeur-like" puckhandler, but I don't recall his actual goaltending being at a level that would have made him a comparable to Fleury, Price or Luongo as some of the great goaltending prospects to come out of that era.

Patrik Stefan - just a big sluggish specimen of 90s hockey thinking. I don't even remember him that much in terms of doing anything.

Not rated: Yakupov, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Sendthepuck View Post
No way is Ovechkin or Kovalchuk more skilled than Crosby.
I think they look more skilled. They're more explosive and flashy as players, combining thoroughbred athleticism with size while Crosby looks like he gets it done with his work ethic more than pure athletic dominance with his physical tools. It's not about results.

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03-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #69
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Random off-topic, but I've always wondered what your avatar is a picture of. I've tried to decipher exactly what it is, but the picture is just too small for me to see. Would ye be able to shed some insight unto my blind eyes?
Yeah, it's a mural on the restaurant accross the street from Rexall. It's 5 stanley cup rings and a beer... the mural being a molson ad. It's been painted over since

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03-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Ilya Kovalchuk - I feel like he's the sturdiest package of physical tools out of all of them. Built like a bull, explosive skating, seamless puckhandling, passing and sniping ability. It's almost like the prime Alex Ovechkin had belonged to Ilya Kovalchuk, it's baffling he didn't peak higher as an offensive force.

Alexander Ovechkin - basically the same sturdy frame and hybrid powerforward/sniper package of Kovalchuk, explosive skating, passing and sniping ability, and elite stickhandling, deking, even though I have this image of his puckhandling as being a lot more sloppy than Kovalchuk. Actually, I'd characterize Ovechkin's whole on ice personality as a lot more sloppy than Kovalchuk. I can't describe this properly, but he has this casual swagger on the PP, for example, whereas Kovalchuk is more barely contained explosiveness. Not really a criticism, just a comment.

Sidney Crosby - obviously the best package of pure domination from his hockey sense to his balance and skating to his arsenal of shots and passing in terms of on ice effectiveness. I don't think that can be debated. But his skills package doesn't quite stand out as apparently as Ovechkin and Kovalchuk.

Patrick Kane - incredible package of hands, speed, vision. He's like a throwback to those 80s era franchise players like Yzerman, Savard, Lafontaine, etc.

Steven Stamkos - aside from the fact that their games are nothing alike, the way he moves around the ice reminds me a lot of Sergei Fedorov for some reason. I'd chalk it up to pure athleticism, skating and puckhandling to some degree. I think Stamkos has an expansive toolset that could allow him to be much more of a one strike sniper he is today.

Marc-Andre Fleury - ridiculously athletic goalie with perhaps Hasek-like physical tools except for a lack of brain and composure to be an all-time great. As a goalie, he really has some remarkable reflexes that makes him comparable to first overall talents.

Rick Nash - I don't really like Rick Nash as a real world player, but if you watch him as a human highlight reel, he looks a lot like Malkin, pulling off Patrick Kane type moves with a power forward body, but his level of dominance always seems to come up short.

John Tavares - I'd characterize him as a bit of a Crosby-lite in terms of a multi-tooled guy who has incredible hands, vision and wants to control the game all over the ice, but aside from his great hands especially in tight, his 'skills' don't seem to be on display as explicitly as an Ovechkin or Kovalchuk, for example.

Vincent Lecavalier - maybe it's a function of "what could have been" in terms of looking at his brief peak, but a 50 goal scoring, 100 point center with the size, speed, puckhandling/deking and shot arsenal of a Lecavalier is hard to pass up over Joe Thornton projected over a full, healthy and consistent career.

Joe Thornton - prototypical big franchise centerman skillset, likes to slow down the play, has great wingspan to protect the puck, elite vision, passing, etc. I'd just rank him a hair under Lecavalier because he isn't as explosive in terms of visible skills and wow factor, even though he was a far more productive player.

Rick Dipietro - had the potential to be a "Brodeur-like" puckhandler, but I don't recall his actual goaltending being at a level that would have made him a comparable to Fleury, Price or Luongo as some of the great goaltending prospects to come out of that era.

Patrik Stefan - just a big sluggish specimen of 90s hockey thinking. I don't even remember him that much in terms of doing anything.

Not rated: Yakupov, Hall and Nugent-Hopkins

You sure know what skills mean. Great post.

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03-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #71
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That Ovi guy was pretty good though, for having no skill.
Given the limited definition of "skill" in this thread, and who he's being compared to, it's not unreasonable. He relies heavily on speed (not counted here) and strength (also not counted here) to be productive. He's not the best passer of the group, nor the best stickhandler, or the best shooter. Kovalchuk and Stamkos are better snipers, Kane and Crosby (possibly others) are better stickhandlers, and a lot of guys (Kane, Crosby, Thornton, Tavares, at least) are better passers.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:06 PM
  #72
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2005 - Crosby
2004-Ovechkin
2009 - Tavares
2001 - Kovalchuk
2007 - Kane
2008 - Stamkos
1997- Thornton
2012 - yakupov
2011 - RNH
2010 - Hall
2002 - Nash
1998 - Lecavalier
1999 - Stefan

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:10 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 View Post
1-Crosby
2-Ovie
3-Thorton
4-Stamkos
5-Vinny
6-Tavares
7-Kovy
8-Kane
9-Nash
10-Hall
11-RNH
12-Yak
13-Stefan
Perfect.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:18 PM
  #74
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Perfect.
Not really, Yakupov and RNH have more "skill" then Hall. Hall is the better player but least skilled of the three.

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Old
03-22-2013, 04:27 PM
  #75
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I was a fan of Lecavalier but i don't think we has that much skill set, he's just a overall very good player

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