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Old
03-22-2013, 07:58 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Is it that the Rangers aren't built well?

or

is it that the Rangers aren't built well to execute Torts system?
They have no depth scoring. They have no scoring from their defense. Their PP is abysmal. I would say it's the players and the coach.

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03-22-2013, 08:01 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
They have no depth scoring. They have no scoring from their defense. Their PP is abysmal. I would say it's the players and the coach.
There are some holes like a third line center, and a PP triggerman.

But I think the main issue is our systemic problems which comes from Torts.

Personally, if the Rangers addressed those two needs right now, I don't think it would make much of a difference...

Team needs to reestablish an identity and a sustainable system..

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03-22-2013, 08:04 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
There are some holes like a third line center, and a PP triggerman.

But I think the main issue is our systemic problems which comes from Torts.

Personally, if the Rangers addressed those two needs right now, I don't think it would make much of a difference...

Team needs to reestablish an identity and a sustainable system..
What system would suit them more? I am not really seeing one. They lack any real puck-movers on the back-end to play an up-tempo style. They lack a 3rd line center so they can't really sustain any offense. Gaborik and Richards handle the puck like a live grenade.

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03-22-2013, 08:10 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
They have no depth scoring. They have no scoring from their defense. Their PP is abysmal. I would say it's the players and the coach.
This is a little too easy to say. Both Gaborik and Richards had good seasons last year (Richards not as good as we would have hoped, but still). Ryan Callahan had 29 goals last year. Derek Stepan had 50 points in his second season. Hagelin had 38 points in only64 games. Del Zotto had a 40 point season last year. And then they added Richards. If there's anything they should have it's depth scoring.

If Richards and Gaborik were playing up to even half their potential, nobody would be talking about depth scoring.

The biggest difference between this year and last year is they were scoring first last year and they won an inexplicable high number of one-goal games.

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03-22-2013, 08:12 AM
  #80
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my guess from LA Kings is that the Rangers are looking at Penner and Fraser.. guys who can help and that have won. Rangers dont have much playoff expierence.. Nash doesnt have much at all... maybe a guy from Dallas like Ray Whitney. i can see him being a target. Morrow i doubt gets traded........id love Jagr back but doubt that happens..

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03-22-2013, 08:12 AM
  #81
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When you bring in the number of new players we have over Torts tenure and each one looks "snake bitten" at times it's most likely the system. Kreider is a good example, look a how he played in the playoffs compared to his first stint here. He is still developing obviously and needs to learn defense but it seems like now that Torts has had time with him the offense dried up. Let guys play, and give them a role based on there skill set, don't try and turn them into Callahan.

The other thing that I think has happened with his system is it's not sustainable, pretty soon guys are going to think about their career an longevity and stop wanting to block 3 Chara bombs in a row during regular season.

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03-22-2013, 08:14 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
my guess from LA Kings is that the Rangers are looking at Penner and Fraser.. guys who can help and that have won. Rangers dont have much playoff expierence.. Nash doesnt have much at all... maybe a guy from Dallas like Ray Whitney. i can see him being a target. Morrow i doubt gets traded........id love Jagr back but doubt that happens..
Whitney has another season at 4.5M left on his contract.

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03-22-2013, 08:14 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is a little too easy to say. Both Gaborik and Richards had good seasons last year (Richards not as good as we would have hoped, but still). Ryan Callahan had 29 goals last year. Derek Stepan had 50 points in his second season. Hagelin had 38 points in only64 games. Del Zotto had a 40 point season last year. And then they added Richards. If there's anything they should have it's depth scoring.

If Richards and Gaborik were playing up to even half their potential, nobody would be talking about depth scoring.

The biggest difference between this year and last year is they were scoring first last year and they won an inexplicable high number of one-goal games.
Bingo.

Gaborik and Richards are receiving their fair share of criticism, but it never ceases to amaze me how that usually filters to complaints about how the bottom 6 isnt playing well above their heads and scoring goals for this team.

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03-22-2013, 08:16 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bingo.

Gaborik and Richards are receiving their fair share of criticism, but it never ceases to amaze me how that usually filters to complaints about how the bottom 6 isnt playing well above their heads and scoring goals for this team.
Or how Brandons Dubinsky and Prust would solve Gaborik and Richards' offensive woes.

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03-22-2013, 08:17 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bingo.

Gaborik and Richards are receiving their fair share of criticism, but it never ceases to amaze me how that usually filters to complaints about how the bottom 6 isnt playing well above their heads and scoring goals for this team.
I am not expecting 10 goals a piece but maybe 15 goals total from the bottom-6 in 30 games? Is that really that big of a stretch?

The 4th line has 1 goal. 1.

Boyle has 2 goals. Miler has 2 goals. Pyatt has 4 goals. Those guys have to pick it up.

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03-22-2013, 08:18 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
What system would suit them more? I am not really seeing one. They lack any real puck-movers on the back-end to play an up-tempo style. They lack a 3rd line center so they can't really sustain any offense. Gaborik and Richards handle the puck like a live grenade.
Well, trap and transition. That may get the best out of Gabby. Playing Trap is also more of short term strategy than long one. The absence of the red line makes it less effective over the long haul.

They could also try a more puck possession perimeter system while keeping their left wing lock approach.

But you would have to move Boyle if that is the case.

I agree that a run/gun system is probably not suited for the Rangers considering we don't have enough speed.

But I don't think we have enough size and durability to run an effective grinding system that we employ now either.

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03-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Or how Brandons Dubinsky and Prust would solve Gaborik and Richards' offensive woes.
Players go through slumps. Good teams have the depth to grind out wins. That's the difference. Last year, when Gaborik and Richards did not score the team was able to find ways to win. Players like Anisimov, Boyle, Prust, Fedotenko, MDZ, etc. were able to scrape up some offense to score 2 goals and get the team points. This year, if the big 3 don't score the team doesn't win. Simple as that.

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03-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am not expecting 10 goals a piece but maybe 15 goals total from the bottom-6 in 30 games? Is that really that big of a stretch?

The 4th line has 1 goal. 1.

Boyle has 2 goals. Miler has 2 goals. Pyatt has 4 goals. Those guys have to pick it up.
Gaborik has 2 goals in the last 18 games. Richards has as many goals as Pyatt. Which two are the bigger issue Richards and Gaborik not producing or the fourth line not scoring?

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03-22-2013, 08:21 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Players go through slumps. Good teams have the depth to grind out wins. That's the difference. Last year, when Gaborik and Richards did not score the team was able to find ways to win. Players like Anisimov, Boyle, Prust, Fedotenko, MDZ, etc. were able to scrape up some offense to score 2 goals and get the team points. This year, if the big 3 don't score the team doesn't win. Simple as that.
Players do go through slumps. But isn't that what the Hagelins, Stepans and Callahans there for?

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03-22-2013, 08:21 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
Well, trap and transition. That may get the best out of Gabby.

They could also try a more puck possession perimeter system while keeping their left wing lock approach.

But you would have to move Boyle if that is the case.

I agree that a run/gun system is probably not suited for the Rangers considering we don't have enough speed.

But I don't think we have enough size and durability to run an effective grinding system that we employ now either.
I agree 100% with this. I don't like the system that they employ right now at all, especially with their personnel.

However, I fear for Pyatt, Boyle and Hamrlik if this team tries to play a more up-tempo system.

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03-22-2013, 08:24 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Gaborik has 2 goals in the last 18 games. Richards has as many goals as Pyatt. Which two are the bigger issue Richards and Gaborik not producing or the fourth line not scoring?
Not saying one is a larger issue than the other. However, it is still an issue. It is also an issue that is easier solved than the Richards/Gaborik ordeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Players do go through slumps. But isn't that what the Hagelins, Stepans and Callahans there for?
Yes. But there should be at least 3 more players on that list who can score a few goals no?

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03-22-2013, 08:25 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I am not expecting 10 goals a piece but maybe 15 goals total from the bottom-6 in 30 games? Is that really that big of a stretch?

The 4th line has 1 goal. 1.

Boyle has 2 goals. Miler has 2 goals. Pyatt has 4 goals. Those guys have to pick it up.
These are a hodge-podge of guys that either:

1. have never scored in this league (Powe, Pyatt)
2. are just learning the game (Miller)
3. have scored in the past, but either stink (Boyle), or are washed up (Halpern)

What right do we have as fans to demand these guys to play better when their track records insist they cant?

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03-22-2013, 08:26 AM
  #93
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As I mentioned on the trade board, i'd like the see NYR try to get Vanek.

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03-22-2013, 08:29 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
These are a hodge-podge of guys that either:

1. have never scored in this league (Powe, Pyatt)
2. are just learning the game (Miller)
3. have scored in the past, but either stink (Boyle), or are washed up (Halpern)

What right do we have as fans to demand these guys to play better when their track records insist they cant?
Not saying it's them, it's the combination that just simply will not work. They also have practically no physicality there either which is incredibly irritating for me personally.

I don't blame the players. I blame the management.

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03-22-2013, 08:30 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
As I mentioned on the trade board, i'd like the see NYR try to get Vanek.
I would too, however I think they need to address their depth first.

Maybe the Rangers could move Boyle + Pyatt + Asham for Stafford +

At least he has some skill......

This team needs a shake-up badly.

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03-22-2013, 08:32 AM
  #96
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Vanek would be a great addition, but is he available?

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03-22-2013, 08:33 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Not saying it's them, it's the combination that just simply will not work. They also have practically no physicality there either which is incredibly irritating for me personally.

I don't blame the players. I blame the management.
Well we agree there.

Management patted itself on the back after the Nash trade and then didnt bother to fill in the bottom 6 with any sort of intelligence.

They dont do anything well. They are just minutes eaters at this point.

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03-22-2013, 08:34 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well we agree there.

Management patted itself on the back after the Nash trade and then didnt bother to fill in the bottom 6 with any sort of intelligence.

They dont do anything well. They are just minutes eaters at this point.
Exactly my issue with most of the bottom-6.

On a sidenote, I wonder if the Rangers could, in 2 weeks at the deadline, actually turn Hamrlik into some sort of asset if they so wanted. Not saying they should, or will, but I think he has looked pretty good. He will have minimal salary left. The Rangers could even keep some.

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03-22-2013, 08:35 AM
  #99
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Were I the GM in a perfect world, I'd move Gaborik in a three way trade for Vanek. Not because I want to move Gaborik but because it seems like he'd be the guy to go.

I'd address depth by bringing in either Mats Zuccarello or Greg Carey.

End up trotting out

Vanek-Stepan-Callahan
Hagelin-Richards-Nash
Kreider-Miller-Carey/Zuccarello
Powe-Halpern-Boyle

Boyle on the right wing allows him to try more of those power moves to the net, which are just about all he can do right now.

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03-22-2013, 08:35 AM
  #100
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Vanek would be a great addition, but is he available?
Can't really take on that salary for next season. Vanek is also definitely NOT a "Torts guy."

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