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Thoughts on Julien's benching...

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:47 AM
  #26
Latrappe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Peverley has been stuck with some absolute black holes for offense on his line this year (Pandolfo, Bourque, Caron and Kelly *this year) --finally a chance to play with a skill guy in Spooner and he gets dumped?

I thought it was a poor call. Put Crosby with those collection of duds this year and I bet my house his production goes waaay down.
Hmmm... Excuses, excuses, excuses. I think i'm a little bit tired to read or hear that Kelly was not good because of Bourque and that Peverly is no good because of.... Caron? At some point, you need to look at the overall game at an "X" player and say: it's not good enough. If #46 gets nailed ( by us ) then there's no way i will give a free pass to Peverly; especially when he's so bad without the puck. Not scoring goal is one thing but hurting the team with poor defensive play is another one.

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03-22-2013, 09:47 AM
  #27
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Honestly I don't particularly mind that Julien wanted to do it, but if you are going to bench players for floating, then Peverly wasn't at the top of it and shouldn't have been.

Horton, Ference, Kelly, Lucic and at times Seguin (although he seems to have mostly figured it out now-just wish he would stop skating across blue line, head towards defenseman and shoot puck from far out with nobody driving the net yet).

So I guess message sending is okay, just doesn't seem like Peverly is the right guy (or at least the right guy to top the list).

I also question the timing-Krejci was playing in his first game after an injury-and there was no way to know if he would finish the game. Sitting a center who has been good in some aspects of his game (face offs and PK and he has scored on the PP) when the top center may not be 100% doesn't make sense.

I would like to see Pandolfo sit for the Leafs game and Peverly switched to the first line and Horton shifted back to the 3rd line with Spooner and Caron.

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03-22-2013, 09:49 AM
  #28
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I liked it considering Peverley has been terrible all year.
As far as effectiveness goes, I mean, it would be tough for anyone to score consistently with Bourque/Kelly and even worse now Caron/Pandolfo.
I think giving him some time on the wing with the 1st and 2nd lines, mixing and matching a bit could jump start him and give him some confidence. A few times a night just because. It's not like Horton can't be moved around a bit, that dude takes nights off all the time.
I think its one of those things where once he finds his offensive touch and puts a few in he will get the confidence back and be alright.

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03-22-2013, 09:49 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
Let's hear it from everyone here on Claude Julien's decision to bench 3rd liner Rich Peverly...

Was it to send a message? Yes
Was it effective? We'll see, I guess....
Was Peverly the correct player chosen? Had to be someone, pick a player there's several to choose from
You think he might be trade bait? Maybe, but he's not very valuable right now.

I'll post my opinion later in the thread.... but I want everyone's opinions on this topic to be seen in one thread.
By the way, I would have had exactly the same answers if it were Horton or Kelly. Ference has picked it up a bit of late and we have no capacity to scratch a D man right now. I'd have same first three answers for Lucic, but obviously he's more valuable and i don't think is trade bait.

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03-22-2013, 09:50 AM
  #30
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The problem is simple to me- their thoughts are geared towards sitting back as opposed to attacking

This is the same team who after Rome blasted Horton into an altered state came out and attacked, attacked, attacked the Canucks until they were beaten physically and mentally.

They need to ATTACK responsibly....WE are what we think and if they had tails it would be between their legs

They can go get all the players they want but they sit back way to much and the new guy probably will be neuterered first practice

Claude? remember the Stanley Cup playoff and last years 22-2-1 run when the Bruins had swagger and went for the jugular- stop vanillarizing this team and tell them to seek and destroy. You can attack and still play great defense, finish your checks- its a mindset and this team's thinking the wrong way 20-6-3 aside

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03-22-2013, 09:52 AM
  #31
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although I won't argue that a message needed to be sent to the team, the player he chose, and the timing of it was all wrong. With Krejci obviously hurting, and playing a division opponent, claude should have realized he needed all hands on deck. It would be great if he gave some sort of explanation for it. they got extremely lucky to pull out a win last night. That 3rd line looked even more lost than usual without Pevs. I'm not sure how he thinks playing Pandolfo over Peverly gives us a better chance to win. I'd almost rather have Bourque playing over Pandolfo at this point. The guy falls down more than Pouliot did.

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03-22-2013, 09:53 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
Hmmm... Excuses, excuses, excuses. I think i'm a little bit tired to read or hear that Kelly was not good because of Bourque and that Peverly is no good because of.... Caron? At some point, you need to look at the overall game at an "X" player and say: it's not good enough. If #46 gets nailed ( by us ) then there's no way i will give a free pass to Peverly; especially when he's so bad without the puck. Not scoring goal is one thing but hurting the team with poor defensive play is another one.
Caron, Kelly, Peverly rolled for 1.5 games before no more Kelly.

The line was actually doing well in those almost 2 games (Kelly scored a goal and don't think they were minus but won't swear to it).

Then they got Pandolfo (we can all agree he is a black hole-I am at the point where I hope they send him far far away and play rotating players from Providence until they find the right guy or pick somebody up through a trade).

That line has been a black hole, but honestly Peverly was putting effort in (Kelly was IMO the one struggling the most to play 5 on 5).

But if I was creating a list of floaters who needed a message Peverly doesn't slot in until about 1/3 down the list.

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03-22-2013, 09:53 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Peverley has been stuck with some absolute black holes for offense on his line this year (Pandolfo, Bourque, Caron and Kelly *this year) --finally a chance to play with a skill guy in Spooner and he gets dumped?

I thought it was a poor call. Put Crosby with those collection of duds this year and I bet my house his production goes waaay down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
That's a bit misleading. He and Kelly are widely considered two of the more responsible players on the team, and both were saddled with the Bourque experiment. Both guys have bad +/- numbers. I'm disappointed a bit with both of them, but still, they've been better since Caron's arrival.

I'm not even arguing against the concept of Peverley being scratched. It's odd on a normal night, but potentially justifiable. But it is absolutely bizarre on a night when Krejci is obviously injured and you are already dressing Spooner (in his third game) and Pandawful (not an NHL player). The chances you need to sit Spooner or Krejci can't keep up seem almost good. You're going to scratch the one guy you normally use to plug holes at center and wing all over your lineup on THAT night?
Sorry guys, but if Bourque has the ability to change Kelly & Peverley that much then get them the F out. But because I DONT believe that to be the case I don't necessarly want them gone.

I can see it in all 3 zones. If the production wasn't there you could count on them in their own zone, not this year. They've been as inconsistent as anyone on the team if not worse.

They have an aggressiveness along the boards that's worst than seguin's at this point, +/- may not be perfect stat but this one tells the tale

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:56 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Not at all. Like I said earlier in the thread, I like the idea of sending guys a message more so than the practice of sitting Peverley last night. I think CJ should have rolled a combo of Caron (only because there's nothing better, but in reality he's been invisible), Spooner, and Pevs last night and sat Pandolfo.
The Caron-Kelly-Peverley combo actually looked fairly good in the Philly game and the Ottawa game before Kelly got hurt. I'm of the mindset that you can absolutely succeed with Caron as your 9th or 10th best forward. But as of right now, he's probably in the 8 spot, which isn't good.

It's funny that in the beginning of the year, it was Kelly with Peverley and a much less skilled Peverley redundancy in Bourque, and now it's Peverley with Caron and a much less skilled Caron redundancy in Pandolfo.

And I said it in another thread, but if Thornton is going to spot pick, I'd go with:

Paille-Spooner-Peverley
Caron-Campbell-Bourque

And make sure that Andrew Ference never sees the PP again.

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03-22-2013, 09:58 AM
  #35
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I will say it again.

When Kelly and Peverly were their most successful last year, it was with Pouliot on their wing-a big body who had some decent passing/scoring ability and decent speed.

Peverly and Kelly ended up with Bourque a guy who couldn't win board battles and whose game just wasn't working.

Kelly IMO was more of a problem on the line 5 on 5 than Peverly, but one again as bad as the line has been, the focus of a message IMO isn't Peverly. Horton has been floating most of the season and is far more in need of a message than Peverly.

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03-22-2013, 09:59 AM
  #36
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And make sure that Andrew Ference never sees the PP again.
Amen to this.

When you have to put Andy Ference on your PP you know it is in trouble.

Andy Ference and PP shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

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03-22-2013, 10:00 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
The Caron-Kelly-Peverley combo actually looked fairly good in the Philly game and the Ottawa game before Kelly got hurt. I'm of the mindset that you can absolutely succeed with Caron as your 9th or 10th best forward. But as of right now, he's probably in the 8 spot, which isn't good.

It's funny that in the beginning of the year, it was Kelly with Peverley and a much less skilled Peverley redundancy in Bourque, and now it's Peverley with Caron and a much less skilled Caron redundancy in Pandolfo.

And I said it in another thread, but if Thornton is going to spot pick, I'd go with:

Paille-Spooner-Peverley
Caron-Campbell-Bourque

And make sure that Andrew Ference never sees the PP again.
I've seen enough of Caron to not want to see more. He's just nothing. I'd start giving the bottom 6 a shake up and letting some younger guys get some time. Let's see what you have. It's not like there isn't room for improvement, you know? I like the idea of Paille moving up since he deserves it. I know some will say the energy line has been good and needs to stay together, but let's be real. The energy line hasn't been very good. Paille has. He's been the singular positive on that line.

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03-22-2013, 10:04 AM
  #38
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I thought it was a very bad decision. Especially with Pandolfo in the lineup over him. I agree that Peverley has not been good, but I didn't think any benching was warranted (yet) unless something we all don't know about happened in the dressing room/practice. I would have MUCH preferred trying out the third line everyone wants to see Caron-Spooner-Peverley. If that didn't work for a few games, and Peverley still struggled, then it woudl be warranted to sit him out.

Julien is a great coach, no doubt about it. Obviously he is a big reason they won that Cup. But still, it's decisions like this, and his inability to adapt in-game that really disappoints me.

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03-22-2013, 10:08 AM
  #39
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Was it to send a message? Yes, as well as to maybe give Pevs a look from high above.
Was it effective? Remains to be seen if it was effective for Peverley himself, but it sure didn't make the rest of the team play any better.
Was Peverly the correct player chosen? He was one of many that could benefit from a benching.
You think he might be trade bait? No more than any other player. Why would you lessen his value by benching him, if you're trying to get something from him.

Could be Clode's already tried different ways of getting him going, so I'll defer to him, but there are a couple things I find interesting: In the previous game, Pevs was used on the Power Play. I find it strange that he's deserving of being benched, when in the very game before he was deserving of PP time.

How on Earth can Pandolfo be more deserving of ice than Peverley?

Caron - Spooner - Peverley should have been tried before benching any of those 3.

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03-22-2013, 10:10 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCL40 View Post
Caron, Kelly, Peverly rolled for 1.5 games before no more Kelly.

The line was actually doing well in those almost 2 games (Kelly scored a goal and don't think they were minus but won't swear to it).

Then they got Pandolfo (we can all agree he is a black hole-I am at the point where I hope they send him far far away and play rotating players from Providence until they find the right guy or pick somebody up through a trade).

That line has been a black hole, but honestly Peverly was putting effort in (Kelly was IMO the one struggling the most to play 5 on 5).

But if I was creating a list of floaters who needed a message Peverly doesn't slot in until about 1/3 down the list.
Probably but which benched player would have the lesser impact on the team: Lucic,Horton or Peverly?

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03-22-2013, 10:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
Hmmm... Excuses, excuses, excuses. I think i'm a little bit tired to read or hear that Kelly was not good because of Bourque and that Peverly is no good because of.... Caron? At some point, you need to look at the overall game at an "X" player and say: it's not good enough. If #46 gets nailed ( by us ) then there's no way i will give a free pass to Peverly; especially when he's so bad without the puck. Not scoring goal is one thing but hurting the team with poor defensive play is another one.
So bad without the puck that he's one of the guys CJ has on the ice in key defensive situations? So bad without the puck that he's the one guy CJ slides up the lines when he has an injury or is missing a top 6 forward? And so bad without the puck he's on the PK and has been since he got here? Not buying it. Nobody is better prepared than CJ and few are more conservative. He doesn't use PEverley as his de facto swiss army knife without being 100% confident in his three zone play.

Further, even if your assessment of him was right, and I contend it's not, how the hell is he worse lately than Lucic? Or Horton? Those guys haven't scored consistently in over a month! Lucic is a giveaway machine lately, and both guys are guilty of overpassing and all-around being lousy. Why not sit one (or both) of them?

Sorry this just doesn't fly to me. There has to be something else to this.

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03-22-2013, 10:15 AM
  #42
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Julien's done this with Peverley before. Remember the Cup run? Peverley was healthy scratched and demoted to the 4th line at times.

The fact is, Peverley hasn't been good enough. He's on pace for 26 poitns (down from 61 last year). Folks wanted to blame Chris Bourque for Peverley's struggles but even when Perv got to skate with Krejci and Lucic or between Lucic and Horton he didn't look good.

Julien tried the carrot, it was time for the stick. Hopefully, there's more to come (lookin' at you 18).

....

That said, while I don't think last night's benching was about a deal in the works, Peverley is not above getting traded. Spooner looks like he could be on this team next year and a 3rd line with both Spoons and Peverley would be very light...

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03-22-2013, 10:18 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
I've seen enough of Caron to not want to see more. He's just nothing. I'd start giving the bottom 6 a shake up and letting some younger guys get some time. Let's see what you have. It's not like there isn't room for improvement, you know? I like the idea of Paille moving up since he deserves it. I know some will say the energy line has been good and needs to stay together, but let's be real. The energy line hasn't been very good. Paille has. He's been the singular positive on that line.
I'd absolutely go that way, Paille-Spooner-Peverley would be fast as hell, I'm higher on Caron than you are (you're asking for younger guys, he's 22, there aren't many younger), but he can do what he does on the 4th line just as easily.

I'm also not of the opinion that the Merlot line needs to stay together, it's not successful because they keep them together it's successful because Paille is a 3rd line type and Campbell is a good 4th line center. Would it be AS successful as Caron-Campbell-Thornton? No. But at the same time, you can't take away from the 3rd line to keep that one in tact, play it more and have it drag the team down.

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03-22-2013, 10:19 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Julien's done this with Peverley before. Remember the Cup run? Peverley was healthy scratched and demoted to the 4th line at times.

The fact is, Peverley hasn't been good enough. He's on pace for 26 poitns (down from 61 last year). Folks wanted to blame Chris Bourque for Peverley's struggles but even when Perv got to skate with Krejci and Lucic or between Lucic and Horton he didn't look good.

Julien tried the carrot, it was time for the stick. Hopefully, there's more to come (lookin' at you 16).

....

That said, while I don't think last night's benching was about a deal in the works, Peverley is not above getting traded. Spooner looks like he could be on this team next year and a 3rd line with both Spoons and Peverley would be very light...

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03-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
Probably but which benched player would have the lesser impact on the team: Lucic,Horton or Peverly?
That's not as easy an answer as you think.

Granted you could easily argue Peverley, but when you consider he's on the PK and PP, takes faceoffs on the right-hand side, and he's often the guy CJ slides up to fill gaps, I would argue benching Horton has the least impact. He doesn't fight any more, he doesn't score much lately, and he's otherwise either somewhat engaged or a passenger.

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03-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #46
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Good move,,now sit Lucic and Horton!

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03-22-2013, 10:21 AM
  #47
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Loved it, should of happened sooner and if kelly wasn't injured i'd pencil him in next.
I`d have little issue with our 1st line Left or right winger having a view from above. One has forgotten to shoot the puck, the other has forgotten what it feels like to play with passion.

Sorry, Pevs is an easy benching, wanna send a message? Pevs isn`t the guy to do it with IMO

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03-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Julien's done this with Peverley before. Remember the Cup run? Peverley was healthy scratched and demoted to the 4th line at times.

The fact is, Peverley hasn't been good enough. He's on pace for 26 poitns (down from 61 last year). Folks wanted to blame Chris Bourque for Peverley's struggles but even when Perv got to skate with Krejci and Lucic or between Lucic and Horton he didn't look good.

Julien tried the carrot, it was time for the stick. Hopefully, there's more to come (lookin' at you 16).

....

That said, while I don't think last night's benching was about a deal in the works, Peverley is not above getting traded. Spooner looks like he could be on this team next year and a 3rd line with both Spoons and Peverley would be very light...
Do you mean 18?

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03-22-2013, 10:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
So bad without the puck that he's one of the guys CJ has on the ice in key defensive situations? So bad without the puck that he's the one guy CJ slides up the lines when he has an injury or is missing a top 6 forward? And so bad without the puck he's on the PK and has been since he got here? Not buying it. Nobody is better prepared than CJ and few are more conservative. He doesn't use PEverley as his de facto swiss army knife without being 100% confident in his three zone play.

Further, even if your assessment of him was right, and I contend it's not, how the hell is he worse lately than Lucic? Or Horton? Those guys haven't scored consistently in over a month! Lucic is a giveaway machine lately, and both guys are guilty of overpassing and all-around being lousy. Why not sit one (or both) of them?

Sorry this just doesn't fly to me. There has to be something else to this.
So bad with the puck that he's minus -9... In an ideal world,you would benched the guy who deserve it the most. Reality is: it's happening 1% of the time.

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03-22-2013, 10:23 AM
  #50
MTaylorJ1
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Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
Julien's done this with Peverley before. Remember the Cup run? Peverley was healthy scratched and demoted to the 4th line at times.

The fact is, Peverley hasn't been good enough. He's on pace for 26 poitns (down from 61 last year). Folks wanted to blame Chris Bourque for Peverley's struggles but even when Perv got to skate with Krejci and Lucic or between Lucic and Horton he didn't look good.

Julien tried the carrot, it was time for the stick. Hopefully, there's more to come (lookin' at you 16).

....

That said, while I don't think last night's benching was about a deal in the works, Peverley is not above getting traded. Spooner looks like he could be on this team next year and a 3rd line with both Spoons and Peverley would be very light...
Peverley played 82 games in 2010-11 between Atlanta and Boston, and all 25 in the cup run, when was he healthy scratched?

It was a poor decision because the lineup is European fashion model thin right now.

I pointed this out earlier, with some puck luck, he's on pace for 17 goals, which is right around his career pace. His assists are down because he's playing with plugs. His Advanced stats are actually pretty good given quality of competition, linemates, and his tendency to start shifts in the defensive zone. He's been great on the PK and at the dot. All of these things speak to Peverley's effort being fine but his linemates (the things he can't control) are terrible.

How long was Peverley between Krejci and Lucic or Krejci and Horton? I don't remember it this year at all. That top line has missed what, 2 games between them, and Spooner played there in 1 of them.

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