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Anyone hear of expansion/merger plans for ECHL, CHL, SPHL FOR 2013-14?

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03-20-2013, 05:31 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by FrancoRussianAlaskan View Post
lose Peoria? First I've heard of that, it's Abbotsford who is supposed to be moving to Utica.

Also, the CHL going to Casper, WY is still up in the air.
http://trib.com/news/local/casper/ca...d71929bd4.html
And what is the title? "Casper's AAA hockey future.." Has the CHL lied to the city and said the league is one step from the show?

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03-20-2013, 09:22 PM
  #52
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Or it could be a simple typo or error.

Regardless of the level they were told or think the CHL is, is would Casper be able to support the team?

What I see is this for next year:

AHL: Abbotsford to Utica
ECHL: stays the same
CHL: 8-12 teams depending on if the league hangs onto Quad City and Bloomington.
SPHL: lose Augusta

FHL: Hopefully dead and burried

If Peoria would be bought and moved to Abbotsford, maybe we see the Rivermen rejoin the ECHL.

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03-20-2013, 09:32 PM
  #53
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1359167
The latest on the AHL seems to be a three-way move/realignment/re-affiliation between Abbotsford, Chicago and Peoria.

Shall we keep this thread focused on the leagues lower than the AHL, please.

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03-20-2013, 10:03 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by jeben51 View Post
And what is the title? "Casper's AAA hockey future.." Has the CHL lied to the city and said the league is one step from the show?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkhockeygoalie View Post
Or it could be a simple typo or error.

Regardless of the level they were told or think the CHL is, is would Casper be able to support the team?
I think it could be more like poor (or lack of) research because they've made that mistake before meaning it's more than just a one-off typo.

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03-21-2013, 09:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mkhockeygoalie View Post
What I see is this for next year:

AHL: Abbotsford to Utica
ECHL: stays the same
CHL: 8-12 teams depending on if the league hangs onto Quad City and Bloomington.
SPHL: lose Augusta

FHL: Hopefully dead and burried

If Peoria would be bought and moved to Abbotsford, maybe we see the Rivermen rejoin the ECHL.
Elmira is definitely done for. No question. Maybe Jackals could relocate to Peoria if the Rivs' move to Abbotsford. This would most likely make the Atlantic Division be Reading, Trenton, Wheeling and Toledo. Hopefully FHL is done for.

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03-21-2013, 10:02 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeben51 View Post
Elmira is definitely done for. No question. Maybe Jackals could relocate to Peoria if the Rivs' move to Abbotsford. This would most likely make the Atlantic Division be Reading, Trenton, Wheeling and Toledo. Hopefully FHL is done for.
how?

if there's an agreement between Freeman and Elmira under new ownership then the Jackals are not done, because the ECHL has that caveat that if a market is vacated the league holds that market for 5 years, jeben.

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03-22-2013, 09:44 AM
  #57
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how?

if there's an agreement between Freeman and Elmira under new ownership then the Jackals are not done, because the ECHL has that caveat that if a market is vacated the league holds that market for 5 years, jeben.
Well the state shut off First Arena's electricity for a few hours a few weeks ago but decided to leave them on until conclusion of the Jackals' season. First Arena also hasn't paid a dime in taxes in three years. It's not really that the Jackals are doing bad it's just the fact that they will not have an arena.

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03-22-2013, 01:17 PM
  #58
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Any interests from Saskatoon on an ECHL or AHL team?

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03-22-2013, 02:25 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RED ARMY EAST View Post
Any interests from Saskatoon on an ECHL or AHL team?
Not on top of the WHL... is something wrong with the Blades there?

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03-22-2013, 08:51 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeben51 View Post
Well the state shut off First Arena's electricity for a few hours a few weeks ago but decided to leave them on until conclusion of the Jackals' season. First Arena also hasn't paid a dime in taxes in three years. It's not really that the Jackals are doing bad it's just the fact that they will not have an arena.
false,

each time there's been a threatened shutoff it hasn't happened, jeben, even the legal issues stemming from the Chemung County charge that they weren't paid by x date, was eventually solved as was the sidebar involving Freeman vs. Afr over whom actually owns the arena, see, the Afr's have been a thorn in the sides of three markets, two of which they were successful in deswtroying any hope of a fanbase in hockey ever returning to those markets (Louisville & Port Huron); they're attempting to destabilize and destroy a 3rd in Elmira, they're not allowed after the Louisville fiasco to even be proposed and/or accepted to any other league higher than the ECHL.... In all honesty, McKenna/ECHL would love to see new operators in Elmira, as the Arena issue seems to have settled down and the prevailing rumor at this point might be that the Afr's might be told to relinquish the rights to the Jackals, so the only option is either new ownership or no hockey but Elmira's staying unless the ECHL starts procedures to terminate the club's membership (and currently, they're a playoff team as of tonight.

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03-23-2013, 03:03 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
false,

each time there's been a threatened shutoff it hasn't happened, jeben, even the legal issues stemming from the Chemung County charge that they weren't paid by x date, was eventually solved as was the sidebar involving Freeman vs. Afr over whom actually owns the arena, see, the Afr's have been a thorn in the sides of three markets, two of which they were successful in deswtroying any hope of a fanbase in hockey ever returning to those markets (Louisville & Port Huron); they're attempting to destabilize and destroy a 3rd in Elmira, they're not allowed after the Louisville fiasco to even be proposed and/or accepted to any other league higher than the ECHL.... In all honesty, McKenna/ECHL would love to see new operators in Elmira, as the Arena issue seems to have settled down and the prevailing rumor at this point might be that the Afr's might be told to relinquish the rights to the Jackals, so the only option is either new ownership or no hockey but Elmira's staying unless the ECHL starts procedures to terminate the club's membership (and currently, they're a playoff team as of tonight.
But how long before the state actually follows through and shuts off the power? To me, it seems like they are letting Elmira generate as much revenue as possible from the remaining ECHL games and then off goes the power until they pay their bills. The Jackals look to be First Arena's only tenant and after viewing the event calendar the only events they have is the Jackals and on March 30 it's Cirque D'Or. One event in the whole month of April and nothing in May, June, July, August. How does an arena pay their bills when they are only home to one team that draws worst in the league?

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03-23-2013, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeben51 View Post
But how long before the state actually follows through and shuts off the power? To me, it seems like they are letting Elmira generate as much revenue as possible from the remaining ECHL games and then off goes the power until they pay their bills. The Jackals look to be First Arena's only tenant and after viewing the event calendar the only events they have is the Jackals and on March 30 it's Cirque D'Or. One event in the whole month of April and nothing in May, June, July, August. How does an arena pay their bills when they are only home to one team that draws worst in the league?
THERE'S A PAYMENT Plan, you need to research before you post inaccuracies, jeben, Elmira is in the playoffs as of last night so there goes much of April and May, the Afr's have paid it, where are you coming up with this anyway, it's common knowledge that most of the hockey fanbase in Elmira and elsewhere don't need.

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03-23-2013, 04:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
THERE'S A PAYMENT Plan, you need to research before you post inaccuracies, jeben, Elmira is in the playoffs as of last night so there goes much of April and May, the Afr's have paid it, where are you coming up with this anyway, it's common knowledge that most of the hockey fanbase in Elmira and elsewhere don't need.
So what happens when Elmira is knocked out in the first round and there are no events from April to September?

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03-23-2013, 06:36 PM
  #64
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CHL: 8-12 teams depending on if the league hangs onto Quad City and Bloomington.
The league has already signed up for another year of running the Mallards if no buyer is found before then. I suspect the CHL will unload QC to the first schmuck who can pony up a franchise fee. If nobody steps forward, Duane Lewis will keep writing checks himself all next season.

Bloomington's situation is a little more difficult to predict, but I think the CHL will move heaven and earth to keep them afloat. Saint Charles and QC will definitely need Bloomington for next season. Without the Blaze, their whole Brampton experiment is going to fail even harder. I think Bloomington is in real trouble, but I can't see the league letting it fold either.

It's very possible the CHL could be running two teams next season. If so, that will only underscore the deep denial Lewis has regarding the future of his league. The CHL's trajectory is similar to that of the IHL back in 2009. To anyone with half a brain, it's obvious the wheels are coming off the cart.

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03-23-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jeben51 View Post
So what happens when Elmira is knocked out in the first round and there are no events from April to September?
why are you so hyper on seeing Elmira collapse, jeben? Do you do any research on the history bc it's well documented, and discarded by even their own fanbase, based off that, it's a wonder that Philadelphia Wants to return its top affiliate to the Lehigh Valley in 2014?

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03-23-2013, 10:25 PM
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Does anyone see the rest of the 'viable' teams in the CHL joining the ECHL eventually?

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03-24-2013, 06:26 AM
  #67
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Does anyone see the rest of the 'viable' teams in the CHL joining the ECHL eventually?
I could definitely see Rapid City joining due to their proximity to Colorado. Missouri, Wichita, Allen, and Tulsa are all doing well enough (attendance-wise) to join the ECHL...but they'd have to join simultaneously. Without all four going at the same time, the ECHL's existing geography makes it tough for them to survive individually.

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03-24-2013, 12:04 PM
  #68
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Does anyone see the rest of the 'viable' teams in the CHL joining the ECHL eventually?
I think so. That's also why I think that the ECHL's capped their membership total, as they know they can't go over what the NHL has.

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03-24-2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
why are you so hyper on seeing Elmira collapse, jeben? Do you do any research on the history bc it's well documented, and discarded by even their own fanbase, based off that, it's a wonder that Philadelphia Wants to return its top affiliate to the Lehigh Valley in 2014?
Just countering your arguments. Why are you so hyper on seeing Elmira stay? I don't want Elmira to fail but I was informed that the arena wasn't going to be suitable for hockey next fall. That's all. And what are you referring to about Adirondack moving to LV?

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03-24-2013, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mfrerkes View Post
I could definitely see Rapid City joining due to their proximity to Colorado. Missouri, Wichita, Allen, and Tulsa are all doing well enough (attendance-wise) to join the ECHL...but they'd have to join simultaneously. Without all four going at the same time, the ECHL's existing geography makes it tough for them to survive individually.
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
I think so. That's also why I think that the ECHL's capped their membership total, as they know they can't go over what the NHL has.
Good points. If they do join, it'd pretty much have to be all of them at once or else there could not be much point in continuing what's left of the CHL with dwindling membership. It seems like that league is slowly dying anyway, from what little I know. Would it be better/stable for minor pro hockey if the E was the only league that represented the 'Triple-A' level?

Just from looking at the maps of both leagues, they seem to fit quite well geographically.

And would the E's membership limit be related to subsidies from their NHL affiliates? As in, if they had 35 teams, 5 of them would be left out in the cold?

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03-24-2013, 11:54 PM
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Just countering your arguments. Why are you so hyper on seeing Elmira stay? I don't want Elmira to fail but I was informed that the arena wasn't going to be suitable for hockey next fall. That's all. And what are you referring to about Adirondack moving to LV?
I'm here.

As for the overall question I see the ECHL losing 2-3 teams in Elmira, Wheeling or/and Trenton(Though I think Trenton will get it's millionth life, damn they get more lives than a cat!)

As for the Elmira nonsense...it's very "up in the air." We are told they will play but thres ero details. Nobody knows what happened in court aside from the politicians trying to assure the sheep theres good news. I'm not buying. First of all if anyody knows a damn thing about Afr he hates operating a place he doesn't own. That leaves you with 2 simpleton options....fold or sell the team. If anyone knows about Afr his asking price isn't going to be dirt cheap or even remotely reasonable. Like you have questioned I have been wondering that for years. The over/under of the days that place is used I would say 50 is maybe slightly over at 55. I have no basis for that number aside from 36 home games, a preseason game or two and like 5 playoff games. I'll throw in the 2 day Wine On Ice event in January and that gets you close to 45. Then they bring in the stupid Trotters for a night. Then this fall there was a night of beer sampling. Then this summer there were 3 movie nights, thats 50.(These were however free to the public) Then they have the stupid circus and I forget the music acts(under 5) In June the local HS's over two days do graduations. Free to the spectators but the schools pa a couple thou a piece. There is a rec rink connected to the arena but you don't need it on to get into or operate the rec rink. Hell...I don't even think in a legit manner the Jackals are profitable. I know the say they are in good financial shape but what Afr did is pretty much the pnly reason why. They ate the ash they got and didn't spend unless they 100% had to.

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03-25-2013, 07:48 AM
  #72
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Good points. If they do join, it'd pretty much have to be all of them at once or else there could not be much point in continuing what's left of the CHL with dwindling membership. It seems like that league is slowly dying anyway, from what little I know. Would it be better/stable for minor pro hockey if the E was the only league that represented the 'Triple-A' level?
At this point, it makes the best economic sense to have one "AA" league as opposed to two of them. It's very similar to what the IHL and AHL went through in the 1990s when they competed for the same talent pool. The IHL had a failed economic model (much like today's CHL does) and wound up being absorbed into the AHL. Since then, AAA-level hockey has been more stable...relatively speaking, of course.

If the ranks of AA hockey were trimmed down to 30 teams, you'd see much less turnover in markets. The CHL is on the verge of being a revolving door with markets like Denver, Saint Charles, and Brampton as recent additions. Other hockey products have already struggled in those markets, and I doubt they'll find sudden success in something like the CHL which is now becoming a glorified SPHL in terms of talent.

The CHL is either going to fold or become part of the ECHL in the next couple years. It doesn't have enough solid markets to remain as a viable stand-alone league very much longer.

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03-26-2013, 02:05 AM
  #73
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At this point, it makes the best economic sense to have one "AA" league as opposed to two of them. It's very similar to what the IHL and AHL went through in the 1990s when they competed for the same talent pool. The IHL had a failed economic model (much like today's CHL does) and wound up being absorbed into the AHL. Since then, AAA-level hockey has been more stable...relatively speaking, of course.

If the ranks of AA hockey were trimmed down to 30 teams, you'd see much less turnover in markets. The CHL is on the verge of being a revolving door with markets like Denver, Saint Charles, and Brampton as recent additions. Other hockey products have already struggled in those markets, and I doubt they'll find sudden success in something like the CHL which is now becoming a glorified SPHL in terms of talent.

The CHL is either going to fold or become part of the ECHL in the next couple years. It doesn't have enough solid markets to remain as a viable stand-alone league very much longer.
Thanks. I always thought the CHL and ECHL were similar in talent level actually, with the E being a little higher due to the number of prospects assigned to their teams.

Do you see a merger happening when that league finally collapses, or the CHL folding and the stronger teams applying for membership in the E separately?

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03-26-2013, 07:58 AM
  #74
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I believe the ECHL has capped the number of teams at 26 ... they could change the bylaws to allow more teams ... maybe 1 for every NHL and AHL team...

I'd also would like to see a name change ... ECHL is outdated ... bring back the IHL..

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03-26-2013, 08:15 AM
  #75
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I believe the ECHL has capped the number of teams at 26 ... they could change the bylaws to allow more teams ... maybe 1 for every NHL and AHL team...

I'd also would like to see a name change ... ECHL is outdated ... bring back the IHL..
I think it should stay ECHL. Now, the ECHL doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean East Coast Hockey League it means ECHL. Stands for nothing. Good for history.

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