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Old
03-21-2013, 07:50 PM
  #251
actionjackson
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
LOL this discussion again.

Our goalies go to other teams and have success. Roloson had Dubnyk-level save percentages in his last year, and is heralded as a "poor goalie". We let him go, and he's leading the TBL to the ECF within 2 years.

How hard is it for people to realize that no goalie (other than Hasek in his prime) can take a bottom-5 defense and turn it around.

It's so easy to point the finger at one person rather than a 6-man unit on the blue-line, so you do it. Armchair GMing at it's finest. I'd rather throw some bigger assets away on a legitimate top-pairing defenseman (McDonagh) than waste it on another goalie to struggle on our team.
Couldn't agree more...

for all those blaming Dubnyk (I defend him, but have no investment in him with our franchise) what are we going to get in the immediate/near future that a) makes us better b) has a similar cap hit or c) what are you willing to give up?

complaining is easy...solutions...not so much.

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03-21-2013, 07:59 PM
  #252
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Couldn't agree more...

for all those blaming Dubnyk (I defend him, but have no investment in him with our franchise) what are we going to get in the immediate/near future that a) makes us better b) has a similar cap hit or c) what are you willing to give up?

complaining is easy...solutions...not so much.
The Oilers have $7.25M on the books for both goalies this season. Why not look at someone in the $5M - $6M range? That leaves a chunk for a backup goalie.

Whitney and Khabi are serviceable TDL pickups for teams looking for depth. Who knows, maybe someone takes Smytty. Maybe move Hemsky as part of a big swap.

There are potential UFA assets to move as well. Are the Oilers willing to pay the big raises Gagner and Smid are going to ask for? If not, is it better to move them now and at least get something in return.

That's the start of an answer for your b) and c).

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03-21-2013, 08:19 PM
  #253
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What else do we...............?

We need three more players like......... in the top 4?

Besides a goaltender........we need a big, hard charging, good hands forward!

And a top 4, big mobile defenceman.


And for the weather to stop snowing............!

That's my wish for Xmas.

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03-21-2013, 08:25 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by rosemount289 View Post
We need three more players like......... in the top 4?

Besides a goaltender........we need a big, hard charging, good hands forward!

And a top 4, big mobile defenceman.


And for the weather to stop snowing............!

That's my wish for Xmas.
good list

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03-21-2013, 09:53 PM
  #255
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I don't think we need to necessarily replace Dubie, but it would be nice to have a Ben Bishop to challenge him and for us to ride whichever is hot.

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03-21-2013, 10:41 PM
  #256
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I don't think we need to necessarily replace Dubie, but it would be nice to have a Ben Bishop to challenge him and for us to ride whichever is hot.

Yeah, I think that's an inexpensive and realistic way to go about it. And it makes sense especially there is no blue chip goalie prospect in our system, nor any top goalie available in trade/UFA markets (unless Phx let Smith walks which is not going to happen).

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03-21-2013, 10:51 PM
  #257
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With Craig Anderson still out there's no reason for them to trade Bishop.

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03-22-2013, 12:11 AM
  #258
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I'd rather D and veteran forwards (excl scorecoff) that don't **** the bed.

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03-22-2013, 08:41 AM
  #259
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Have been on it before, DD needs competition to develop his game! Played in the bottom Nhl team with next to no help from our defence who has allowed opposition taking shots in dangerous areas.

This is his first season as a 1st goalie after splitting the last season with khabby, DD has been developed good inside() the oilers org. He is big, and goalies takes time to develop. What DD need right now is confidence and to get that, he need a defence who working hard on the rebounds and have the skill to force the attacker to take bad angle shots.

A couple of goalie steal games from DD is all that he needs to go on a strike , but this season is already lost. Goalies make mistake and let in easy goals, it takes time and a good defense to be a consistant great goalie.

Next season we need to have a young goalie prospects to compete with DD and take over if DD doesnt develop to the great goalie we expect.


I mean senators has 3 good goalies, maybe we should go after Lehner because he is nr 3 and only play during injurys. A nilsson a young big goalie in islanders org is also intresting. Sure there are other almost ready prospect who could be intresting for us, but Na goalie prospect isnt my best subject.

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03-22-2013, 08:58 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by brom7 View Post
Hey guys Bruins fan checking in again,

You say you need a goalie. Apparently our back up goalie, Anton Khudobin, wants a good amount of money when he is up for another contract this summer. Since we already need to re-up guys like Rask this summer and are already tied up with the cap, it is very likely that Anton could be leaving this summer.

He is a very good goaltender with sound positioning and has the ability to make a big save when needed. We need help with the third line or third defensive pairing.

What would you guys be willing to give up say we were to engage in some kind of discussions.

Cheers guys,
Brett
It's something to look at, but as I pointed out a few times it doesn't necassarily solve anything. Cory Schneider was suppose to just step in this year and be the #1 no questions asked, but he couldn't. He struggled.

We see it time and time again. Varlamov goes to Col and both COL and the team he was traded from still have suspect goaltending.

People just assume it's easy to replace Dubnyk, but it's not.

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03-22-2013, 09:55 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
It's something to look at, but as I pointed out a few times it doesn't necassarily solve anything. Cory Schneider was suppose to just step in this year and be the #1 no questions asked, but he couldn't. He struggled.

We see it time and time again. Varlamov goes to Col and both COL and the team he was traded from still have suspect goaltending.

People just assume it's easy to replace Dubnyk, but it's not.
It may not be easy, but it has to be done. At the very least whoever is brought in next season has to have a chance to compete. No anointing Dubnyk the #1 next season. He just hasn't earned that.

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03-22-2013, 10:24 AM
  #262
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Dubnyk even at the top end of peoples' projections is what, the 15th best starter in the league? 12th? Does anyone have him top-10? Five years from now, what's the plan going to be, top 5 offensive forwards, middling (if things go well) goaltending and mediocre defence?

One out of three isn't going to win us anything. The only team that's done that in the past five years is the Penguins, and even if every single possible star aligns, our forward corps isn't going to turn into Crosby/Malkin/Staal.

If we're realistically going to compete for the cup in the next handful of years, we absolutely need a better goaltender. That or we run with Dubnyk, and somehow find another couple really good defensemen to complement Schultz and (maybe) Smid.

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03-22-2013, 10:28 AM
  #263
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I was watching Bull Durham on TSN last week and this scene reminded me of Dubnyk (apologies for the poor quality):



God I wish Khabibulin was more like Crash Davis.

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03-22-2013, 10:32 AM
  #264
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
It may not be easy, but it has to be done. At the very least whoever is brought in next season has to have a chance to compete. No anointing Dubnyk the #1 next season. He just hasn't earned that.
I don't know Dubnyk played pretty darn well down the stretch last year. He deserved his shot.

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03-22-2013, 10:36 AM
  #265
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by Sheeshta View Post
Dubnyk even at the top end of peoples' projections is what, the 15th best starter in the league? 12th? Does anyone have him top-10? Five years from now, what's the plan going to be, top 5 offensive forwards, middling (if things go well) goaltending and mediocre defence?

One out of three isn't going to win us anything. The only team that's done that in the past five years is the Penguins, and even if every single possible star aligns, our forward corps isn't going to turn into Crosby/Malkin/Staal.

If we're realistically going to compete for the cup in the next handful of years, we absolutely need a better goaltender. That or we run with Dubnyk, and somehow find another couple really good defensemen to complement Schultz and (maybe) Smid.
If we are to keep our 'star' forwards , we will have to live with 15th best goaltending.. Its the DET model .. There really isnt much difference between 15th best and top 5 goalie at this time...
Anderson, Fasth, Crawford, Bobrovsky and Rask are league's top 5 goalies at this point... All could very well be 15th-20th best in a year .. All were not in top 15 last year.

Unless we are getting a Lundqvist or Rinne there are no guarantees..
Dubnyk keeps us in games ala Crawford\Rask etc and it is up our stars up front to deliver..

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03-22-2013, 10:43 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
If we are to keep our 'star' forwards , we will have to live with 15th best goaltending.. Its the DET model .. There really isnt much difference between 15th best and top 5 goalie at this time...
Anderson, Fasth, Crawford, Bobrovsky and Rask are league's top 5 goalies at this point... All could very well be 15th-20th best in a year .. All were not in top 15 last year.

Unless we are getting a Lundqvist or Rinne there are no guarantees..
Dubnyk keeps us in games ala Crawford\Rask etc and it is up our stars up front to deliver..
The Detroit model for their last win wasn't "a bunch of star forwards and mediocre goaltending", though. It was "star forwards, bad goaltending, one of the three or four best defensemen of all time, along with Kronwall, Rafalski and Chelios on the back end beside him".

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03-22-2013, 11:20 AM
  #267
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I don't know Dubnyk played pretty darn well down the stretch last year. He deserved his shot.
He played well down the stretch last year when nothing was on the line and the games didn't count. He got his shot and has not proved to be a top 10 starter in this league.

He played pretty well in the Spengler Cup this year. That counts for a lot.

In this current 4-0-2 streak Dubnyk is a big part of the reason the team wasn't 6-0-0. The Nashville game being the only game in the streak he played really well.

In the 0-4-1 immediately before this streak Dubnyk was a big part of the losses against St. Louis and Minnesota. Admittedly the Detroit and Nashville games in that streak were by no means his fault.

The inconsistency is killing this team. The team does not have confidence that they will get his A game consistently.

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03-22-2013, 11:29 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
He played well down the stretch last year when nothing was on the line and the games didn't count. He got his shot and has not proved to be a top 10 starter in this league.

He played pretty well in the Spengler Cup this year. That counts for a lot.

In this current 4-0-2 streak Dubnyk is a big part of the reason the team wasn't 6-0-0. The Nashville game being the only game in the streak he played really well.

In the 0-4-1 immediately before this streak Dubnyk was a big part of the losses against St. Louis and Minnesota. Admittedly the Detroit and Nashville games in that streak were by no means his fault.

The inconsistency is killing this team. The team does not have confidence that they will get his A game consistently.
So you want a top 10 starter? Can you give me your list of who you think is top 10 and then we can see just how realistic it's going to be to get that guy?

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03-22-2013, 11:44 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Sheeshta View Post
The Detroit model for their last win wasn't "a bunch of star forwards and mediocre goaltending", though. It was "star forwards, bad goaltending, one of the three or four best defensemen of all time, along with Kronwall, Rafalski and Chelios on the back end beside him".
so what exactly is you solution? Take out Lundqvist, Brodeur and Rinne since they are going nowhere.. name me a goalie who is a surefire top 10 goalie in this league?

Only one I can come up with is Quick. Should EDM offer Hall++ for him to shore up our goaltending? becuase that is what it will take...
A 'quick' glance at his stats and 2.54GAA and 0.897sav% isnt very flattering..

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03-22-2013, 11:45 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
So you want a top 10 starter? Can you give me your list of who you think is top 10 and then we can see just how realistic it's going to be to get that guy?
Miller, Luongo both available and have shown to be consistently better then Dubnyk. Personally Id want Miller as he's more athletic which a team with an abysmal defence needs.

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03-22-2013, 11:53 AM
  #271
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Miller, Luongo both available and have shown to be consistently better then Dubnyk. Personally Id want Miller as he's more athletic which a team with an abysmal defence needs.
so a goalie who is 6 yrs older, making twice as much and has worse stats is the answer? Also, Are you willing to give up good assets for him? Our 2013 1st will likely be involved along with other assets..

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03-22-2013, 12:00 PM
  #272
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so what exactly is you solution? Take out Lundqvist, Brodeur and Rinne since they are going nowhere.. name me a goalie who is a surefire top 10 goalie in this league?

Only one I can come up with is Quick. Should EDM offer Hall++ for him to shore up our goaltending? becuase that is what it will take...
A 'quick' glance at his stats and 2.54GAA and 0.897sav% isnt very flattering..
Bernier. If we can't sign Smid then offer him to the LAK for their playoff run. He's very young and can push DD or take his job.

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03-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #273
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Miller, Luongo both available and have shown to be consistently better then Dubnyk. Personally Id want Miller as he's more athletic which a team with an abysmal defence needs.
its not 2010. he is not a top-10 goalie...i dont even think hes better than dubnyk

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03-22-2013, 12:02 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
He played well down the stretch last year when nothing was on the line and the games didn't count. He got his shot and has not proved to be a top 10 starter in this league.

He played pretty well in the Spengler Cup this year. That counts for a lot.


In this current 4-0-2 streak Dubnyk is a big part of the reason the team wasn't 6-0-0. The Nashville game being the only game in the streak he played really well.

In the 0-4-1 immediately before this streak Dubnyk was a big part of the losses against St. Louis and Minnesota. Admittedly the Detroit and Nashville games in that streak were by no means his fault.

The inconsistency is killing this team. The team does not have confidence that they will get his A game consistently.
I've mentioned before that Dubnyk has more of a tendency to play well when the games are academic, when the club is already more or less eliminated, and theres no real pressure on the line.
Similarly he seems to play better when the team is behind. Spot him a few goal lead and you can just sense he'll pull a braincramp. 4-0 against Chicago in the Madhouse and he decides to play dangerous racing to a puck with Patrick Kane thereby resulting in an open net goal.
People don't get upset because these are mistakes, they get concerned because these are incomprehensible decisions that speak to a goalie that has little understanding of the moment and how to play smart in the moment.

In clearest terms I don't trust Dubnyk going forward playing in key situations when we may actually have something on the line. I wonder how many team mates unconditionally trust Dubnyk. The multiple players diving around the net and playing goal suggests they don't. Overcompensation happens arguably because of a perceived need for it.

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03-22-2013, 12:03 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by shoop View Post
He played well down the stretch last year when nothing was on the line and the games didn't count. He got his shot and has not proved to be a top 10 starter in this league.

He played pretty well in the Spengler Cup this year. That counts for a lot.

In this current 4-0-2 streak Dubnyk is a big part of the reason the team wasn't 6-0-0. The Nashville game being the only game in the streak he played really well.

In the 0-4-1 immediately before this streak Dubnyk was a big part of the losses against St. Louis and Minnesota. Admittedly the Detroit and Nashville games in that streak were by no means his fault.

The inconsistency is killing this team. The team does not have confidence that they will get his A game consistently.

This ^^^^ is absolute horse$*#@...you are saying we would have went 9-2 if it were not for Dubnyk....RIIIIIGGGGHHHTTT...because there are no other holes in this team...(and these holes are not exactly going to be a cakewalk to fill either)

Over the last two decades beyond Ryan Miller at the Vancouver Olympics, Marty Brodeur (I think his team recognized his value...he might have been unavailable), and Hasek in his prime, who do you propose is going to come in and just shut the door completely on every team night in and night out until all our other shortcomings have been addressed?

You want him to prove he is a top ten starter in the league on a team that has been absolutely dreadful over the past three seasons...the only stat you can reference that has "nothing" to do with the team in front of him is save %...where he sits 11th...but all the haters will say that is because of all the soft shots and rebounds (other goalies dont get those of course).

I hate the soft goals too...but overall there are WAY worse goalies out there. Would I like Hiller to come over in the off-season...OF COURSE...but watching the game day thread explode with what a POS this guy is just after Smyth coughs up the puck along the boards or N. Shultz gives up possession of the puck yet again...where is the love when he makes a beauty save?!?!

it is just not an accurate reflection of what this guy really is...a reasonably solid goalie who has not yet (and maybe never will) taken the step to elite status. This is not (at this point) the kind of guy who can put the team on his back and lead them to victory night in and night out...and I think we would all be over the moon (even the haters) if he ever did develop into one.

But he is also not the one responsible for the shortcomings of the Edmonton Oilers organization as a whole...he is instead the new scapegoat for HF OIL...I shall now refer to him as Devawn Dubnykoff!

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