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Hamilton III: There's A New Sheriff In Town

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Old
03-20-2013, 02:51 PM
  #201
Ryan34222
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I'll give you Oakville and probably Brantford because the traffic isn't that bad but not Missasauga and Milton. On a perfect day from an area on the highway sure, but from the big housing developments deep into those cities and departure time between 4:00-6:00? Could take you an hour, probably longer.

Traffic isn't nice between Guelph and Kitchener either but I can get there in peak hours within 30-40 minutes. But once Highway 7 is upgraded to a freeway (Which will happen in the next 10-15 years) that distance could be cut down to 15-20 minutes. The hardest part getting to Guelph is you either need to take the back roads (Highway 7) or go off the 401.
i travel through Mississauga on way to Hamilton everyday at anywhere from 530 to 630.
410/403 area to York exit 35minutes and thats with the slow down around Ford plant.
25 minutes using 407

Milton im assuming would be closer since they would likely use the 407.

i think adding Mississauga is quite fair tbh

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03-20-2013, 05:27 PM
  #202
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Milton im assuming would be closer...
Milton might make some sense, I'll give whomevers arguing for it that much. Fastest growing muni in the region with one of the highest per household income levels... and isnt that the area where Mattamy Homes made much of their reputation & bones, Title Sponsors of the Ryerson Sports Complex & Rink now situated atop Maple Leaf Gardens?

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03-20-2013, 09:13 PM
  #203
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I have a solution to where a 2nd NHL. team should be placed that could please everyone just build an NHL. sized arena in Aldershot between Hamilton & Burlington that would please both sides of the debate .

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03-20-2013, 10:28 PM
  #204
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I have a solution to where a 2nd NHL. team should be placed that could please everyone just build an NHL. sized arena in Aldershot between Hamilton & Burlington that would please both sides of the debate .
NO sir, even though Burlington is Hamilton's suburbs it's still technically in the GTA there's no doubt it would be called the Toronto whatevers. I wouldn't be happy.

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03-20-2013, 10:40 PM
  #205
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Milton might make some sense, I'll give whomevers arguing for it that much. Fastest growing muni in the region with one of the highest per household income levels... and isnt that the area where Mattamy Homes made much of their reputation & bones, Title Sponsors of the Ryerson Sports Complex & Rink now situated atop Maple Leaf Gardens?
Milton for an NHL team? I guess it is central to everything. Maybe if it was a city with a base of 500000.

Anywho. I timed my drive home to day, at 615pm I was at 410/403 split. Cruising at 110k's arrived at york Blvd exit in Hamilton in exactly 27 minutes. More than enough time for a Mississauguan to find a parking space, grab a beer and watch a puck drop at Copps for 730

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03-20-2013, 10:53 PM
  #206
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Milton for an NHL team? I guess it is central to everything. Maybe if it was a city with a base of 500000.
Ya, I said I'd give whomever suggested Milton as being a good location that much, that it was a "good location", convenient, but thats all it is. Anywhere else beyond Copps & the Hammer west or southwest, not seeing it.... like Milton Keynes in Buckinghamshire. Half rural, part suburban, part urban. So as to blend everything, the city planners got all weird. Like sticking life like concrete sculptures of cows in parks that no one visits, easily mistaken for just some random field, going by, oh, look at the lovely cattle. Then not 10M's away across a stream or street, real Guernseys grazing away, but barely moving. You dont have your wits about you, perhaps "glazed" somewhat as may be, well, things can get pretty strange in a hurry in Milton Keynes.


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03-21-2013, 04:40 PM
  #207
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Everybody here has to realize that any 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario has to be a regional team & just not for Hamilton & Toronto (GTA.) it has to in centralized location that everybody can have access to from Hamilton area , southwestern ontario , GTA. , Niagara region ect. & just not to one particular such as Hamilton & Markham (GTA.) .

So here are some centralized locations that can work Hamilton (Copps Coliseum) , Ancaster , Aldershot , Cambridge all are centralized locations that everybody can get to unlike Markham which would only serve the GTA. & thats it besides a team there is highly unlikely when you consider that so called arena they have planed there is in limbo at best right now with no signs of any shovels going in the ground any time soon also you got to figure that MLSE. will pull out all the stops to make sure no NHL. team takes root in the GTA.

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03-21-2013, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
Everybody here has to realize that any 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario has to be a regional team & just not for Hamilton & Toronto (GTA.) it has to in centralized location that everybody can have access to from Hamilton area , southwestern ontario , GTA. , Niagara region ect. & just not to one particular such as Hamilton & Markham (GTA.) .

So here are some centralized locations that can work Hamilton (Copps Coliseum) , Ancaster , Aldershot , Cambridge all are centralized locations that everybody can get to unlike Markham which would only serve the GTA. & thats it besides a team there is highly unlikely when you consider that so called arena they have planed there is in limbo at best right now with no signs of any shovels going in the ground any time soon also you got to figure that MLSE. will pull out all the stops to make sure no NHL. team takes root in the GTA.
I don't think you realize that no matter if/when there's a 2nd GTA Team, the fight to get that franchise any power, over MLSE is almost impossible, whether it can be blocked or not by either MLSE or Buffalo, without already splintering what fanbases already exist now, JMROWE, that's the ultimate question, no matter where it is awarded to, there hasn't been a consensus where without undue harm to either Buffalo or MLSE.

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03-21-2013, 07:35 PM
  #209
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I don't think you realize that no matter if/when there's a 2nd GTA Team, the fight to get that franchise any power, over MLSE is almost impossible, whether it can be blocked or not by either MLSE or Buffalo, without already splintering what fanbases already exist now, JMROWE, that's the ultimate question, no matter where it is awarded to, there hasn't been a consensus where without undue harm to either Buffalo or MLSE.
"Splinter" the fan bases of the Sabres or Leafs? In Hamilton & SW Ontario? What fans, of either team? People are likely to support Detroit, Chicago, Boston, Montreal as they are the Sabres or Leafs HUTCH. In 43 years Buffalo's played I think one game in Hamilton, actually Ancaster, and that was a league promotion, not something done by the organization. They dont broadcast into the area. They've never marketed themselves to the area. They dont care. The Sabres have a Seasons Ticket Waiting List, very very few holders from Hamilton. Buffalo "claiming" variously 10-14-17% of their ticket base is Canadian, which is fine, so prove their from Hamilton and NOT Niagara Falls, Niagara on the Lake, quick hop, skip & jump across the border. Burden of proof that harm will surely follow is on Buffalo... and as I believe, a Hamilton franchise would in fact be a huge boon for the Sabres. Close rival, bridge between Toronto, 3Way Rivalry. Richer for all.

Im assuming your also unaware of the dynamic that exists between Hamilton & Toronto and has for nearly 80yrs or more? Hamilton the butt of some seriously unflattering jokes by Torontonians. Looked down upon as a filthy, polluted, grimy, grim, crime ridden blue collar hick town of gap jawed in-breds. A post apocalyptic wasteland of long shuttered store-fronts & abandoned buildings that makes Detroit's inner city look like downtown Houston in comparison. The armpit of Canada... and thats being mild. No Siree Bob. In fact, you wander through the streets or head into a bar wearing a Leafs jersey in Hamilton, well, best be havin yer OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) paid up to date. Fortunately there are some excellent medical facilities nearby, Hamilton General, West Lincoln. McMaster if the damage is particularly bad. No love lost nor offered towards the Leafs in that area I can assure you. Hamiltonians arent going to drop $600 for a pair of tickets at the ACC to watch a game against the Panthers. If their Habs or Bruins fans they might, if they could even find any available.

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03-21-2013, 09:41 PM
  #210
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"Splinter" the fan bases of the Sabres or Leafs? In Hamilton & SW Ontario? What fans, of either team? People are likely to support Detroit, Chicago, Boston, Montreal as they are the Sabres or Leafs HUTCH. In 43 years Buffalo's played I think one game in Hamilton, actually Ancaster, and that was a league promotion, not something done by the organization. They dont broadcast into the area. They've never marketed themselves to the area. They dont care. The Sabres have a Seasons Ticket Waiting List, very very few holders from Hamilton. Buffalo "claiming" variously 10-14-17% of their ticket base is Canadian, which is fine, so prove their from Hamilton and NOT Niagara Falls, Niagara on the Lake, quick hop, skip & jump across the border. Burden of proof that harm will surely follow is on Buffalo... and as I believe, a Hamilton franchise would in fact be a huge boon for the Sabres. Close rival, bridge between Toronto, 3Way Rivalry. Richer for all.

Im assuming your also unaware of the dynamic that exists between Hamilton & Toronto and has for nearly 80yrs or more? Hamilton the butt of some seriously unflattering jokes by Torontonians. Looked down upon as a filthy, polluted, grimy, grim, crime ridden blue collar hick town of gap jawed in-breds. A post apocalyptic wasteland of long shuttered store-fronts & abandoned buildings that makes Detroit's inner city look like downtown Houston in comparison. The armpit of Canada... and thats being mild. No Siree Bob. In fact, you wander through the streets or head into a bar wearing a Leafs jersey in Hamilton, well, best be havin yer OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) paid up to date. Fortunately there are some excellent medical facilities nearby, Hamilton General, West Lincoln. McMaster if the damage is particularly bad. No love lost nor offered towards the Leafs in that area I can assure you. Hamiltonians arent going to drop $600 for a pair of tickets at the ACC to watch a game against the Panthers. If their Habs or Bruins fans they might, if they could even find any available.
you want to kill all of hockey outside of the NHL, Killion, how would the OHL like to not exist at all, because we don't have a consensus location for a 2nd Toronto team whether it be in or outside the GTA, Prime example is Gilles Courteau trying to place teams in suburbs around Montreal, knowing full well you're going head to head w/ the Canadiens, how many Junior teams exist in the Canadiens territory, not even their top affiliate is in the province, either

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03-21-2013, 10:26 PM
  #211
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you want to kill all of hockey outside of the NHL, Killion, how would the OHL like to not exist at all, because we don't have a consensus location for a 2nd Toronto team whether it be in or outside the GTA, Prime example is Gilles Courteau trying to place teams in suburbs around Montreal, knowing full well you're going head to head w/ the Canadiens, how many Junior teams exist in the Canadiens territory, not even their top affiliate is in the province, either
Huh? I want to "kill all hockey of hockey outside of the NHL"?! Nothing could be further from the truth. That coat dont fit and Im not wearing it Mister. Fact of the matter is that Major Junior Hockey and or the AHL simply will not succeed in Montreal, Toronto or Hamilton (Major Junior would do well in Hamilton) because those markets outgrew Junior years ago & have no real serious & lasting interest in 2nd tier professional hockey. Its not top shelf, just dont bother trying to serve it up.

Major Jr. died a slow death through the 70's & 80's in Toronto, kickstarts in the 90's & OO's all failing, the franchises moved to the outskirts, and in a couple of cases even that wasnt far enough out into the sticks so they had to move yet again. The AHL Marlies only there at all because its convenient & cheap. MLSE requiring a tenant for the Ricoh Centre which they reno'd & manage, a smaller concert & event venue than the ACC, home of the long running Royal Winter Fair, a no brainer, dont matter if the Marlies have 3000 or 8000 in attendance, building more than pays the freight, and when your MLSE if it doesnt, whats a few shekels? They also provide content for LeafsTV.

Now, you know & I know HUTCH the brand of hockey played in the AHL is excellent, some fantastic & interesting players on the way up or down, smaller career types who are highly skilled etc. Major Junior, in many ways superior to the NHL altogether, a better game & experience, and no, Im not joking. You see stuff that reminds you of what the sports all about in Junior. But in Toronto or Montreal, a beyond tough sell who's days passed years ago. Out west here, different story, successful teams from Regina to Vancouver. A peculiarity of tastes, different from those in Montreal, Toronto.

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03-22-2013, 08:38 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
you want to kill all of hockey outside of the NHL, Killion, how would the OHL like to not exist at all, because we don't have a consensus location for a 2nd Toronto team whether it be in or outside the GTA, Prime example is Gilles Courteau trying to place teams in suburbs around Montreal, knowing full well you're going head to head w/ the Canadiens, how many Jhunior teams exist in the Canadiens territory, not even their top affiliate is in the province, either
How do you define Montreal Canadiens territory? Blainville-Boisbriand is inside Montreal so thats one, and if you have a liberal view of Canadiens territory I guess you could consider Drummondville and Sherbrooke also in Canadiens territory.

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03-22-2013, 11:22 AM
  #213
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NO sir, even though Burlington is Hamilton's suburbs it's still technically in the GTA there's no doubt it would be called the Toronto whatevers. I wouldn't be happy.
Burlington is outside of buffalo's 50 mile territorial limit, Hamilton is not, therefore the potential savings on territorial indemnification fees is huge for Burlington vs Hamilton.

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03-22-2013, 11:43 AM
  #214
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Burlington is outside of buffalo's 50 mile territorial limit, Hamilton is not, therefore the potential savings on territorial indemnification fees is huge for Burlington vs Hamilton.
Ya, but its closer to Toronto. So if Im the Leafs, I'm going to demand more in indemnification payments if you set-up shop in Burlington than I would of Hamilton so surely the fee's overall would likely be the same, a wash. In fact, Buffalo might still demand recompense if Burlington's the landing spot. Frankly, I consider the Sabres position pursuant to territorial claims on Hamilton as nothing more than hollow, facile & transparent posturing. A money grab. They've just got to be aware of the fact that rather than causing harm, a team in Hamilton would be an absolute cash cow for them in perpetuity. That however apparently isnt enough. They want their bread buttered on both sides, demanding indemnification, blocking efforts to expand or relo a team to Copps, held up by Bettman & Daly as potentially being a victim, wont survive with a team in Hamilton. Utter BS. Hopefully this new guy, Terry Pegula is as enlightened as his actions would appear to paint him. Major donations to Penn State, clearly loves the game, already wildly over-spending & getting into Cap difficulties, pro-active at the community sports & amateur hockey levels in Buffalo.

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03-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #215
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Ya, but its closer to Toronto. So if Im the Leafs, I'm going to demand more in indemnification payments if you set-up shop in Burlington than I would of Hamilton so surely the fee's overall would likely be the same, a wash. In fact, Buffalo might still demand recompense if Burlington's the landing spot. Frankly, I consider the Sabres position pursuant to territorial claims on Hamilton as nothing more than hollow, facile & transparent posturing. A money grab. They've just got to be aware of the fact that rather than causing harm, a team in Hamilton would be an absolute cash cow for them in perpetuity. That however apparently isnt enough. They want their bread buttered on both sides, demanding indemnification, blocking efforts to expand or relo a team to Copps, held up by Bettman & Daly as potentially being a victim, wont survive with a team in Hamilton. Utter BS. Hopefully this new guy, Terry Pegula is as enlightened as his actions would appear to paint him. Major donations to Penn State, clearly loves the game, already wildly over-spending & getting into Cap difficulties, pro-active at the community sports & amateur hockey levels in Buffalo.
and dont forget about having to come up with $500M to actual build an arena in burlington

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03-22-2013, 12:15 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
you want to kill all of hockey outside of the NHL, Killion, how would the OHL like to not exist at all, because we don't have a consensus location for a 2nd Toronto team whether it be in or outside the GTA, Prime example is Gilles Courteau trying to place teams in suburbs around Montreal, knowing full well you're going head to head w/ the Canadiens, how many Junior teams exist in the Canadiens territory, not even their top affiliate is in the province, either
The QMJHL needs a franchise in the Montreal area for marketing and TV purposes. Quebecor has a significant interest in the Boisbriand franchise in the Q.

Presently on the island of Montreal, Laval or the south shore you do not have an arena that is adequate for a Q or AHL team.

The Canadiens stopped operating their top minor pro teams out of the Forum in the early seventies since they simply did not draw as well as other events. They stopped operating a Q team in the second half of the eighties.

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03-22-2013, 12:49 PM
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Ya, but its closer to Toronto. So if Im the Leafs, I'm going to demand more in indemnification payments if you set-up shop in Burlington than I would of Hamilton so surely the fee's overall would likely be the same, a wash. In fact, Buffalo might still demand recompense if Burlington's the landing spot. Frankly, I consider the Sabres position pursuant to territorial claims on Hamilton as nothing more than hollow, facile & transparent posturing. A money grab. They've just got to be aware of the fact that rather than causing harm, a team in Hamilton would be an absolute cash cow for them in perpetuity. That however apparently isnt enough. They want their bread buttered on both sides, demanding indemnification, blocking efforts to expand or relo a team to Copps, held up by Bettman & Daly as potentially being a victim, wont survive with a team in Hamilton. Utter BS. Hopefully this new guy, Terry Pegula is as enlightened as his actions would appear to paint him. Major donations to Penn State, clearly loves the game, already wildly over-spending & getting into Cap difficulties, pro-active at the community sports & amateur hockey levels in Buffalo.
We're both speculating, but I don't think Toronto's indemnification would be significantly more from Burlington as opposed to Hamilton. Sure, there's a chance it's slightly higher, but I'm pretty sure that small increase would be dwarfed by completely removing buffalo from the equation.

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03-22-2013, 01:17 PM
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The QMJHL needs a franchise in the Montreal area for marketing and TV purposes. Quebecor has a significant interest in the Boisbriand franchise in the Q.... The Canadiens stopped operating their top minor pro teams out of the Forum in the early seventies since they simply did not draw as well as other events. They stopped operating a Q team in the second half of the eighties.
... business interests are one thing, however in terms of public tastes & interests for a variety of reasons doesnt seem to be any appetite for Major let alone Provincial Junior A or AHL, ECHL hockey in the markets of Toronto & Montreal. The WHL after watching fails in Vancouver & Calgary, elsewhere, resistant to the notion of a return to major markets for some time. The successes in Calgary with the Hitmen & Vancouver's Giants both anomalous peculiarities unique to western Canada and not transferable to a Montreal or Toronto proper without some very serious capital investments in marketing & promotion, infrastructure in Montreal (arena?) and even then a crap shoot.

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We're both speculating, but I don't think Toronto's indemnification would be significantly more from Burlington as opposed to Hamilton. Sure, there's a chance it's slightly higher, but I'm pretty sure that small increase would be dwarfed by completely removing buffalo from the equation.
Well, isnt Burlington effectively part of the GTA yet bizarrely included in the census district of the GHA? Some kind of split going on there? Sort of straddling the two municipal districts yet retaining much of its autonomy? I dont really know, stopped paying attention, disgusted with Toronto's Amalgamation back in the 90's as it was. But Burlington it could be argued is close enough if not over-lapping eastern Hamilton's boundaries and as such; Buffalo requiring some dough. Toronto looking for a sizeable chunk more as Burlington is for all intensive purposes little more than a bedroom community & suburb, homogeneous, nothing there even but condo's. Housing developments & shopping centres. Some light manufacturing, ht etc, rail depots n' whatnot in Aldershot. Like say far eastern Scarborough on the other side of the city. Even Markham. How long before its Amalgamated, absorbed into the sprawling megalopolis of the GTA? 10yrs, 20? No, the only place that makes sense to me is Hamilton & Copps' if but only one franchise is inbound.

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03-22-2013, 02:28 PM
  #219
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... business interests are one thing, however in terms of public tastes & interests for a variety of reasons doesnt seem to be any appetite for Major let alone Provincial Junior A or AHL, ECHL hockey in the markets of Toronto & Montreal. The WHL after watching fails in Vancouver & Calgary, elsewhere, resistant to the notion of a return to major markets for some time. The successes in Calgary with the Hitmen & Vancouver's Giants both anomalous peculiarities unique to western Canada and not transferable to a Montreal or Toronto proper without some very serious capital investments in marketing & promotion, infrastructure in Montreal (arena?) and even then a crap shoot.



Well, isnt Burlington effectively part of the GTA yet bizarrely included in the census district of the GHA? Some kind of split going on there? Sort of straddling the two municipal districts yet retaining much of its autonomy? I dont really know, stopped paying attention, disgusted with Toronto's Amalgamation back in the 90's as it was. But Burlington it could be argued is close enough if not over-lapping eastern Hamilton's boundaries and as such; Buffalo requiring some dough. Toronto looking for a sizeable chunk more as Burlington is for all intensive purposes little more than a bedroom community & suburb, homogeneous, nothing there even but condo's. Housing developments & shopping centres. Some light manufacturing, ht etc, rail depots n' whatnot in Aldershot. Like say far eastern Scarborough on the other side of the city. Even Markham. How long before its Amalgamated, absorbed into the sprawling megalopolis of the GTA? 10yrs, 20? No, the only place that makes sense to me is Hamilton & Copps' if but only one franchise is inbound.
Junior AAA is the equivalent of Junior A in the province of Quebec:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...l19892012.html

Majority of the teams are within a 1/2 hour commute, 3 are on the island of Montreal. Making a go of things in arenas with capacity in the 750 - 2,000 range. Six are within a 1/2 of Boisbriand-Blainville, the Q team.

BTW two successful junior teams in the Ottawa area - 67s in the OHL and Gatineau in the Q. Strong Junior A league in Ottawa/eastern Ontario, youth hockey very solid across the river in the Outaouais region of Quebec. Also Detroit features the NHL and the two OHL teams - Windsor and Plymouth

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03-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #220
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Junior AAA is the equivalent of Junior A in the province of Quebec:
Yes its an interesting situation, the LHJAAAQ (< that right there is a God Damn anagram on acid) with its concentration of teams in the Montreal area & environs. Provincial Jr.A yes, but not quite as well off financially as some of their cousins in Ontario, Alberta & elsewhere, having never won the Royal Bank Cup. Dominating the game at that level through the eastern Provinces, the Maritime Junior Hockey League. Then as you mention the Central Junior Hockey League in Eastern Ontario, again, a decent brand of hockey, Yzerman amongst many others having at one time played in it. All these leagues, from the Maritimes to even Northern Ontario all blended in competing for the Dudley Hewitt Cup, Fred Page Cup & then the Royal Bank Cup & so on & so forth.

In Southern Ontario, the OJHL, about 90% of the teams in smaller centres outside of the GTA, North York Rangers, Mississauga Chargers, I think there was a team in Downsview at one time. Hamilton Red Wings, Aurora Tigers etc outside of it. Amalgamation of leagues & teams from the Central Junior B, Metro Toronto Junior A, on & on, a web of connections. My old alma mater Markham Waxers I see having closed shop..... and yet these guys want an NHL franchise? Hah! Cant even support Junior hockey. Never work in Markham just as surely as it never will in Hamilton as not only do they not pack the house for the Red Wings at the 2500 seater Dave Andryechuk Mountain Arena, they wont support the AHL much either. No, Im afraid we'll just have to look elsewhere. Close the thread please. Were done here. Over...


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03-22-2013, 08:23 PM
  #221
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Burlington is outside of buffalo's 50 mile territorial limit, Hamilton is not, therefore the potential savings on territorial indemnification fees is huge for Burlington vs Hamilton.

Each team has a 50 mile territorial radius, so teams need to be at leat 100 miles away from each other to not have their 50 mile radii overlapping.

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03-22-2013, 10:19 PM
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Burlington is outside of buffalo's 50 mile territorial limit, Hamilton is not, therefore the potential savings on territorial indemnification fees is huge for Burlington vs Hamilton.
If it's named the Hamilton whatevers I'd be good with aldershot as a location, kinda. Not a fan of putting an NHL team in such a small population, much like Kil and I were talking about Milton.

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03-22-2013, 10:27 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
.Well, isnt Burlington effectively part of the GTA
Just another thing Toronto stole from us.. Lol.

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03-22-2013, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
If it's named the Hamilton whatevers I'd be good with aldershot as a location, kinda.
I see. Aldershot with a population of less than 4000 people. An excellent selection my friend. No one will ever know we've built it.... a new home for the 19,500 abandoned & semi wild rabbits living down by the rail yards. Most magnanimous... but no, Im afraid it wont do.... very afraid in fact. wont go near the place. once encountered the terrifying spectre of Springheeled Jack in Aldershot... mind ye' that was the one in the UK but same thing, close enough, same name, not taking the risk.

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03-23-2013, 03:14 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers View Post
Each team has a 50 mile territorial radius, so teams need to be at leat 100 miles away from each other to not have their 50 mile radii overlapping.
The nhl constitution is unclear on that point, just as it is unclear on many other subjects.

On one hand, section 4.1 states that: "each Member Club shall have exclusive territorial rights in the city in which it is located and
within fifty miles of that city's corporate limits."

Then, in section 4.3, seemingly out of nowhere, comes the phrase:
"No franchise shall be granted for a home territory within the home territory of a member, without the written consent of such member"

So, 4.1 and 4.3 appear to contradict each other. The history of the nhl suggests that it's 4.1 which is actually used, otherwise we should have seen territorial fees paid by Philadelphia to NYR, Hartford to NYR NYI and Boston, NYI to Philadelphia, Ottawa to Montreal, and Buffalo to Toronto.

There's also a clause in the constitution that says that bettman has the right to interpret any issues in the way he sees fit, so it's basically whatever he says goes.

I suppose the bottom line is that 4.1 and 4.3 don't really matter because the nhl controls franchise location, and if you approach them with a location they don't like (such as Hamilton), then you're simply not getting your team, regardless of what anything says in the constitution.

The nhl is, always has been, and always will be an 'old boys club', and unfortunately there's not a thing that anyone can do about it.

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