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Old
03-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #151
EbonyRaptor
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
He cut off the angle, and as he was about to put his stick on the puck Getzlaf let a quick shot go. First off, we are talking about him playing against an elite player in the game, second of all, it was ALL on Crawford for giving up that juicy rebound. Thirdly, if Kane would of picked up his man, no one would of been there to get that juicy rebound.

Oduya was not to blame at all for that goal. I'll take my Dmen making other playerrs shoot from the corners all day. Goalies should be covering those pucks up, not giving up juicy rebounds to the front of the net.
I don't hold Oduya responsible for that goal alone, Crawford did give up the rebound and Kane lost his check on Ryan so they could have played it better too. But Oduya could have and should have played it better. Since when is it the right play to allow the puck carrier to waltz in from the blue line to almost the goal line and not pressure him to take away his shooting/passing options? The Hawks weren't down a man and the d-man should not be giving the guy a 10 foot buffer with which to make any play he wants. The d-man at the very least should be crowding him to take away the play into the middle of the ice. Make his only options to be to take the puck behind the net or back up the boards. Let's not ignore the obvious - a top d-man would have checked Getzlaf and tried to rub him off the puck - but Oduya didn't trust that he was physically able to handle Getzlaf so he gave him a wide berth. That's the difference between playing it aggressively with playing it passively hoping he doesn't burn you.

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03-22-2013, 11:55 AM
  #152
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lol your love for oduya is comical. he backed way poof getzlaf right away the was way too slow getting back to him and allowed him way too much space. how is crawford supposed to cover a puck that was shot from 10-15 feet at his shin?

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03-22-2013, 12:00 PM
  #153
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Crawford didn't handle that rebound well, he kicked it right out in front. I'm not sure how anyone can argue this.

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:55 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
lol your love for oduya is comical. he backed way poof getzlaf right away the was way too slow getting back to him and allowed him way too much space. how is crawford supposed to cover a puck that was shot from 10-15 feet at his shin?
I don't love Oduya, but he is the 3rd player to blame on that goal.

How does a goalie cover a puck that is shot at his shins from 10-15 feet away? Are you serious?????? You make the stop, don't give up a juicy rebound, and cover it. Basic 1 on 1 goaltending.

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03-22-2013, 12:57 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I don't hold Oduya responsible for that goal alone, Crawford did give up the rebound and Kane lost his check on Ryan so they could have played it better too. But Oduya could have and should have played it better. Since when is it the right play to allow the puck carrier to waltz in from the blue line to almost the goal line and not pressure him to take away his shooting/passing options? The Hawks weren't down a man and the d-man should not be giving the guy a 10 foot buffer with which to make any play he wants. The d-man at the very least should be crowding him to take away the play into the middle of the ice. Make his only options to be to take the puck behind the net or back up the boards. Let's not ignore the obvious - a top d-man would have checked Getzlaf and tried to rub him off the puck - but Oduya didn't trust that he was physically able to handle Getzlaf so he gave him a wide berth. That's the difference between playing it aggressively with playing it passively hoping he doesn't burn you.

Itís hard to argue that as well. Many of us have been preaching for quite a while now about Hawks soft play, not only on defense but up front as well. It seems that that is the system Stan and Q have implemented and prefer. If there was any doubt of that, the acquisition and signing of Oduya confirmed it in my mind. I hate that we play this way and I donít think we will ever win a SC playing the passive system we do and I admit, I have pretty much given up that Stan will look for gritty help before the TD. Down the stretch, perhaps the only hope is if our PP can get so good that teams will fear taking penalties against us hence allowing this talented team to do what they do best. In fact the PK needs to get back where they were as well. If that happens and we get quality goaltending our chances improve but it is never fun to see our players lose board battles, leave ops untouched in front of the blue paint and sometimes get mauled physically.

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03-22-2013, 01:06 PM
  #156
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Itís hard to argue that as well. Many of us have been preaching for quite a while now about Hawks soft play, not only on defense but up front as well. It seems that that is the system Stan and Q have implemented and prefer. If there was any doubt of that, the acquisition and signing of Oduya confirmed it in my mind. I hate that we play this way and I donít think we will ever win a SC playing the passive system we do and I admit, I have pretty much given up that Stan will look for gritty help before the TD. Down the stretch, perhaps the only hope is if our PP can get so good that teams will fear taking penalties against us hence allowing this talented team to do what they do best. In fact the PK needs to get back where they were as well. If that happens and we get quality goaltending our chances improve but it is never fun to see our players lose board battles, leave ops untouched in front of the blue paint and sometimes get mauled physically.
Yes because the gritty Brian Campbell on the 2nd pairing was way different than Oduya

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03-22-2013, 01:08 PM
  #157
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Yes because the gritty Brian Campbell on the 2nd pairing was way different than Oduya
Not only that, fails to mention the acquisitions of Brookbank and Roszival, who are not soft.

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03-22-2013, 01:11 PM
  #158
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Not only that, fails to mention the acquisitions of Brookbank and Roszival, who are not soft.
Also every one is screaming waive Mayers, waive Carcillo, send Bollig down to Rockford, you can't trade for Ott! People love to talk about gritty players but no one wants to play gritty players.

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03-22-2013, 01:29 PM
  #159
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Also every one is screaming waive Mayers, waive Carcillo, send Bollig down to Rockford, you can't trade for Ott! People love to talk about gritty players but no one wants to play gritty players.
To be precise, I don't want to play bad/stupid players.

Though I do agree that the "need" for grit is grossly overstated.

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03-22-2013, 01:31 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
Itís hard to argue that as well. Many of us have been preaching for quite a while now about Hawks soft play, not only on defense but up front as well. It seems that that is the system Stan and Q have implemented and prefer. If there was any doubt of that, the acquisition and signing of Oduya confirmed it in my mind. I hate that we play this way and I donít think we will ever win a SC playing the passive system we do and I admit, I have pretty much given up that Stan will look for gritty help before the TD. Down the stretch, perhaps the only hope is if our PP can get so good that teams will fear taking penalties against us hence allowing this talented team to do what they do best. In fact the PK needs to get back where they were as well. If that happens and we get quality goaltending our chances improve but it is never fun to see our players lose board battles, leave ops untouched in front of the blue paint and sometimes get mauled physically.
I won't go that far. I don't think it's systemic, I think certain players wilt under physical pressure and don't play the same way as they do against less physical pressure. Oduya is one of those players. The way he played against Getzlaf is not the same way he always plays but he plays that way too often when the opponents forecheck has set the tone. It's the same as when he played very well when he was first acquired and then not nearly so well when Phoenix was hitting the snot out of our d-men.

For the Hawks to be successful, they must set the tone with their speed and puck possession game and then those players will be fine. That's more difficult to do in the playoffs because the opposing team is pretty good too but the Hawks are better equipped to dictate the tone of the game than they were the last two seasons. Therein lies the Hawks hopes for success in the playoffs - dictate the pace of the game and players like Oduya will play well enough for the Hawks to be successful.

The die is cast - the Hawks aren't all of a sudden going to become a big physical team with the acquisition of a player or two at the TDL. They have to play to their strength and do it with confidence. If they do - they can win.

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03-22-2013, 01:50 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
To be precise, I don't want to play bad/stupid players.

Though I do agree that the "need" for grit is grossly overstated.
It's like the Aflac commercial, you want it in case you need it. When we are in the playoffs and getting rolled physically, you can't go back and trade for someone that can actually play good hockey and provide toughness. Ott is a different player than the others we have.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:18 PM
  #162
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@TramyersCSN
Shaw on Bollig still minus a goal: "I heard Marty Brodeur has more goals than him this year." #Blackhawks


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03-22-2013, 02:25 PM
  #163
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@TramyersCSN
Shaw on Bollig still minus a goal: "I heard Marty Brodeur has more goals than him this year." #Blackhawks

But still as many as Ville Leino.

I regret ever sliding that guy into our lineup at $3 million or so before free agency one year.

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03-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
It's like the Aflac commercial, you want it in case you need it. When we are in the playoffs and getting rolled physically, you can't go back and trade for someone that can actually play good hockey and provide toughness. Ott is a different player than the others we have.
That's reasonable. It's not that the Hawks have absolutely zero use for more grit.

But at this point, the Hawks are a leopard that can't change its spots. They aren't going to become a physical team before the playoffs, and adding a physical player would amount to what, like 3 extra hits per game? I doubt that's enough to turn a series around.

More grit or not, in the playoffs this team is going to live and die by its speed.

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03-22-2013, 02:47 PM
  #165
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Agreed. I know this is a fantasy, but let's say you deal one Stalberg/Bickell in a Ribeiro trade then turn around and make another deal for Ott, who I believe has one more year left at a little under 3M.

Saad-Toews-Hossa
Sharp-Ribeiro-Kane
Ott-Bolland-Stalberg/Bickell
Kruger-Shaw-Frolik

Pretty damn stout. Frolik would probably have to be dealt in the offseason though.

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03-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Agreed. I know this is a fantasy, but let's say you deal one Stalberg/Bickell in a Ribeiro trade then turn around and make another deal for Ott, who I believe has one more year left at a little under 3M.

Saad-Toews-Hossa
Sharp-Ribeiro-Kane
Ott-Bolland-Stalberg/Bickell
Kruger-Shaw-Frolik

Pretty damn stout. Frolik would probably have to be dealt in the offseason though.
I'd rather trade Frolik than 1 of Bickell or Stalberg. But, doubt the team trading with us would want Frolik over those 2.

Solid lineup, Ott can take faceoffs for Bolly, then go back to LW.

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03-22-2013, 03:15 PM
  #167
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Crawford didn't handle that rebound well, he kicked it right out in front. I'm not sure how anyone can argue this.
he certainly could have handled the rebound better, but claiming that it was an easy puck to smother is pretty suspect.

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03-22-2013, 03:40 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Also every one is screaming waive Mayers, waive Carcillo, send Bollig down to Rockford, you can't trade for Ott! People love to talk about gritty players but no one wants to play gritty players.
I don't mind Carillo or Mayers because both can play hockey. Bollig is a pair of hands and a brainless moron attached who often does stupid things just attempting to fight.

Grittiness can still come with talent too. 2010 team had guys like Ladd, Buff, Kopecky, Madden. Who where gritty but also talented and could get you goals or make a play.

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03-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #169
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Yes because the gritty Brian Campbell on the 2nd pairing was way different than Oduya
Are you really comparing Campbell to JO?

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03-22-2013, 04:16 PM
  #170
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Are you really comparing Campbell to JO?
In their physical play...yes

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03-22-2013, 04:20 PM
  #171
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In their physical play...yes
OK, but Campbell was able to take a big hit and still make a play.

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03-22-2013, 06:48 PM
  #172
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OK, but Campbell was able to take a big hit and still make a play.
And did it quite often I may add. Used to make me nervous that he would get hurt. Similar to what Hammer and Seabs do today for the Hawks. I've seen Oduya take one occasionally but he bales out way too often. I wouldn't mind it as much if he just threw it up the boards but he tends to blindly throw it up the middle or anywhere he can.

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03-23-2013, 01:41 AM
  #173
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Itís hard to argue that as well. Many of us have been preaching for quite a while now about Hawks soft play, not only on defense but up front as well. It seems that that is the system Stan and Q have implemented and prefer. If there was any doubt of that, the acquisition and signing of Oduya confirmed it in my mind. I hate that we play this way and I donít think we will ever win a SC playing the passive system we do and I admit, I have pretty much given up that Stan will look for gritty help before the TD. Down the stretch, perhaps the only hope is if our PP can get so good that teams will fear taking penalties against us hence allowing this talented team to do what they do best. In fact the PK needs to get back where they were as well. If that happens and we get quality goaltending our chances improve but it is never fun to see our players lose board battles, leave ops untouched in front of the blue paint and sometimes get mauled physically.
What make me mad you don't think the Blackhawks will win the stanley cup with Johnny Oduya in the line-up, i think the Hawks will go farther in the playoffs this season, i would love to see the Ducks and the Hawks in the Conference Finals, But i know Johnny Oduya makes alot of mistakes, sometimes he does drives me crazy!

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03-23-2013, 09:53 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Sevanston View Post
That's reasonable. It's not that the Hawks have absolutely zero use for more grit.

But at this point, the Hawks are a leopard that can't change its spots. They aren't going to become a physical team before the playoffs, and adding a physical player would amount to what, like 3 extra hits per game? I doubt that's enough to turn a series around.

More grit or not, in the playoffs this team is going to live and die by its speed.
We don't need a lot to improve the grit. Add a real grinder who can play (like a Ott, Iginla or a Doan) along with a 4th liner (or a stay at home tough dman) and the affect can be dramatic. The gritty play can be contagious (there are players who are capable of it on this team) The team plays with more confidence and theres more open ice to allow the skill to prevail.

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03-23-2013, 11:50 AM
  #175
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I don't love Oduya, but he is the 3rd player to blame on that goal.

How does a goalie cover a puck that is shot at his shins from 10-15 feet away? Are you serious?????? You make the stop, don't give up a juicy rebound, and cover it. Basic 1 on 1 goaltending.
Watched the game with Anaheim feed and their announcers were saying that's the book on Crawford, shoot low and get the rebounds because he does not know how to direct them or eliminate them very well.

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