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Patrick Kane v. Alex Kovalev

View Poll Results: Patrick Kane v. Alex Kovalev
Patrick Kane 70 56.00%
Alex Kovalev 55 44.00%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-27-2013, 03:01 AM
  #76
SillyRabbit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
fakekidpoker- what year did Kane get all star game MVP? Kovalev got it in 09, along with the first team selection and the captain's C.
Not sure what's more embarrassing, the fact that you wouldn't be supporting Kovalev as recently as a month ago before he signed with your favorite team, or the fact that you tried to base an argument around the fact that Kovalev was an All-Star Game MVP when the All-Star Game was held in Montreal (The city of the team Kovalev played on).


Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
For those compare their rank on their teams' cup runs (in order):
Messier, Richter, Leetch, Kovalev, Zubov
Byfuglien, Toews, Keith, Kane, Niemi
Silly way to compare, but all things considered they really seem to fall even in importance in credit to OP, IMO.

Side note because I've seen this brought up a few times- If Toews doesn't win the Conn Smythe, there's no way in sam hell Byfuglien isn't next in line. Without him Kane and Toews are on their ass via Pronger.
Is that a joke? Keith would be next in line with Kane right behind him.

There's little argument to be made that Kovalev was more important to the Rangers than Kane was to the Hawks during their cup run, not to mention that Kane blows Kovalev out of the water during the regular season in their first 5 seasons.

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01-27-2013, 11:38 AM
  #77
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There is no argument Kovalev was more important to the Rangers' Cup win.

Kane was more valuable than Toews in the Cup run.. he just wasn't going to get the CS award due to his actions from the Summer previous.

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03-22-2013, 07:18 AM
  #78
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With the retirement of Kovalev yesterday...

..he is still not close to Patrick Kane.

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03-22-2013, 07:59 AM
  #79
Bob Kudelski
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Kane for me..

I really dislike Kane as a person, but Kovalev has always been sooo overrated.

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Old
03-22-2013, 09:54 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
What accomplishments are those exactly?
Stanley Cup ring?
Kane's Calder? Because Kovalev had a chance in hell of beating out one of the top 5 most deserved Calder's in the entire history of the league?
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Originally Posted by RNH3 View Post
I choose Kane basically because I think he is a better all around player.
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
With the retirement of Kovalev yesterday...

..he is still not close to Patrick Kane.
Has Kane learned to kill penalties or play an aggressive game so that he can be useful even when he's not on the scoresheet? Despite the narrative of some butthurt fans, the reason so many think highly of Kovalev is because he was able to be so effective even when he wasn't scoring. No, he wasn't some kind of defensive angel or physical monster. But he wasn't a figure skater who played half the rink while being chained to the bench any time his team took a penalty.

To put it in perspective:

A late-prime Alexei Kovalev played 113:55 on the PK for Montreal in 2007-08; behind only Higgins, Plekanec, and Smolinski. He also scored 84 points that season.

Patrick Kane has played 33:14 of PK IN HIS FIVE-PLUS YEAR CAREER.

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03-22-2013, 12:04 PM
  #81
Fred Taylor
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Never realized Kovalev ever pkd that much.

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Old
03-22-2013, 12:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
Never realized Kovalev ever pkd that much.

I can't find any data on that. I didn't know that either and I would like to see the link verifying that is true before I believe it. I searched and could not come up with those numbers.

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03-22-2013, 12:12 PM
  #83
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Kane. IMHO Kovalev's skill is overrated due to Russian Mystique Syndrome. People seem to rate Russians as being more skilled than they really are, and softer than they really are. Hockey nation romanticism.

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03-22-2013, 12:42 PM
  #84
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There aint nothing wrong with faking injuries if you get away with it. Kovalev did good in 1995.

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03-22-2013, 01:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
I can't find any data on that. I didn't know that either and I would like to see the link verifying that is true before I believe it. I searched and could not come up with those numbers.
It's all at nhl.com, and of course, common knowledge to Habs fans. I'll try to provide a link to the data already sorted as necessary: link.

For that matter, Pittsburgh fans from the turn of the millennium probably remember Kovalev coming within 3 minutes of leading ALL Pens in SH TOI, defensemen included, and that was during his 95 point campaign - the highest scoring of his career. (another attempted link to same area)

Don't know why so many are so quick to forget the other side of the puck when it comes to such a universally gifted player like Kovalev, but surely he gets credit for being among his team's most important penalty killers in the most offensively productive seasons of his career.

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03-22-2013, 01:06 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
There aint nothing wrong with faking injuries if you get away with it. Kovalev did good in 1995.
HEHEHE

Don't worry karma bite him later down the line.


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03-22-2013, 01:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
It's all at nhl.com, and of course, common knowledge to Habs fans. I'll try to provide a link to the data already sorted as necessary: link.

For that matter, Pittsburgh fans from the turn of the millennium probably remember Kovalev coming within 3 minutes of leading ALL Pens in SH TOI, defensemen included, and that was during his 95 point campaign. (another attempted link to same area)
Thank you sir, I was looking on the wrong sites and didn't think to go to NHL.com.

Thanks again!!!!

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03-22-2013, 01:10 PM
  #88
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Thank you sir, I was looking on the wrong sites and didn't think to go to NHL.com.

Thanks again!!!!
No prob, and I feel your pain a bit there. I've grown so accustomed to sites like hockeyreference, the HSP, and eliteprospects, etc, that I, too, sometimes forget that some of the information is still best sorted/found at the good ol' NHL site.

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03-22-2013, 01:14 PM
  #89
SmellOfVictory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Of course, at age 24 Kovalev was playing in the DPE, while Kane was playing in the no-touchy feely "new" NHL. But whatever, right?
You mean the touchy feely NHL where the average number of goals scored per game has been between 5.7 and 5.3 as opposed to the insanely low 5.3 to 5.5 goals per game of the DPE? What a staggering difference!

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03-22-2013, 01:14 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No prob, and I feel your pain a bit there. I've grown so accustomed to sites like hockeyreference, the HSP, and eliteprospects, etc, that I, too, sometimes forget that some of the information is still best sorted/found at the good ol' NHL site.
That is exactly where I was, on HR and elite. Figures, it was so simple.

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03-22-2013, 01:19 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
You mean the touchy feely NHL where the average number of goals scored per game has been between 5.7 and 5.3 as opposed to the insanely low 5.3 to 5.5 goals per game of the DPE? What a staggering difference!
To watch? Yeah, you're right it is.

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03-22-2013, 01:25 PM
  #92
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When it comes to "usefulness" to their team:

Kovalev's best game vs Kane's best game
Kovalev wins

Kovalev's best season vs Kane's best season
Kane wins

Kane is much more consistent than Kovalev. Kovalev took games off and would be absolutely useless to his team for a few nights, and then be out of this world another night. The nights when Kovalev didn't show up to play and was just floating around were just horrid to watch and detrimental to his team.

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03-22-2013, 01:26 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory View Post
You mean the touchy feely NHL where the average number of goals scored per game has been between 5.7 and 5.3 as opposed to the insanely low 5.3 to 5.5 goals per game of the DPE? What a staggering difference!
Scoring is down for different reasons not because of the lack of clutching and grabbing . Ohashi is absolutely correct calling this the "no touchy feely NHL". It's becoming a joke, this new NHL.

Goalie equipment is too big and goalies are a heck of a lot better trained and more skilled overall ATM.

Here is something I think is overlooked. This new NHL is more speed and skating oriented. Thereby we have a lot of players tremendous speed, skating skills but have hands of stone. I watch players like Daniel Pallile, there is no way that guy would have made the NHL 10 years ago. He might be one of the fastest player in the NHL but he couldn't shoot the puck into a soccer net with no goalie. I notice alot of teams are filled with players like Pallile.

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03-22-2013, 01:31 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Scoring is down for different reasons not because of the lack of clutching and grabbing . Ohashi is absolutely correct calling this the "no touchy feely NHL". It's becoming a joke, this new NHL.

Goalie equipment is too big and goalies are a heck of a lot better trained and more skilled overall ATM.

Here is something I think is overlooked. This new NHL is more speed and skating oriented. Thereby we have a lot of players tremendous speed, skating skills but have hands of stone. I watch players like Daniel Pallile, there is no way that guy would have made the NHL 10 years ago. He might be one of the fastest player in the NHL but he couldn't shoot the puck into a soccer net with no goalie. I notice alot of teams are filled with players like Pallile.
Yeah because the league was just overflowing with skilled players back then

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03-22-2013, 01:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Offtheboard412 View Post
Yeah because the league was just overflowing with skilled players back then
Different set of skills. Please, read what I wrote. The emphasis is on skating and speed now. As long as you have good wheels, you have a good chance to make it. You also blew off my goalie comments.

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03-22-2013, 01:39 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Different set of skills. Please, read what I wrote. The emphasis is on skating and speed now. As long as you have good wheels, you have a good chance to make it. You also blew off my goalie comments.
Goalie pads are smaller now than they were in the early 2000's. And I'm a fan of a team that employed Rico Fata, speed has always been coveted. There were plenty of 3rd line plugs that handled the puck like a grenade back then.

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03-22-2013, 01:42 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Offtheboard412 View Post
Goalie pads are smaller now than they were in the early 2000's. And I'm a fan of a team that employed Rico Fata, speed has always been coveted. There were plenty of 3rd line plugs that handled the puck like a grenade back then.
This board is manic.

Over in the Adam Oates thread, there are posters talking about how Oates and Hull's lack of speed/skating would have kept them down in this new era of the current NHL. Now here you are, telling me the league has always been about speed.

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03-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Offtheboard412 View Post
Goalie pads are smaller now than they were in the early 2000's. And I'm a fan of a team that employed Rico Fata, speed has always been coveted. There were plenty of 3rd line plugs that handled the puck like a grenade back then.
Slightly smaller...you also left off the other half of what I said about goalies.

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03-22-2013, 01:44 PM
  #99
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Different set of skills. Please, read what I wrote. The emphasis is on skating and speed now. As long as you have good wheels, you have a good chance to make it. You also blew off my goalie comments.
Good wheels and a willingness to work hard. It's becoming increasingly a grinder's game - only the average grinder has become a much more polished product by their 20s in today's environment. If you don't play like Crosby or Datsyuk (or Ovechkin in his hey day), you have to be Malkin or forget about even getting a mention in a "top players" conversation. I don't know if the current mantra is that hard work produces more than skill, or if it's the talent of players rounding out rosters that's forcing coaches to game plan around that principle. Undoubtedly the money on the line in today's game contributes to forcing teams into a more conservative approach, as well, hence part of the perceived notion that OT shouldn't be allowed to drag out during the regular season, and that shootouts should decide games instead.

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03-22-2013, 02:37 PM
  #100
Offtheboard412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
This board is manic.

Over in the Adam Oates thread, there are posters talking about how Oates and Hull's lack of speed/skating would have kept them down in this new era of the current NHL. Now here you are, telling me the league has always been about speed.
I couldn't care less what others on these boards say, people love to contradict themselves just so they can win arguments. Nowhere in my post did i say anything about the league being all about speed, I just said that speed is an attribute that has always been valued. Even in the clutch and grab era, speed would still be beneficial. You can't hook what you can't catch.

I ignored your goalie comment because I was really only addressing your point about Paille. Like I said, If Rico Fata could make this league, then so could Paille.

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