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Old
03-22-2013, 04:18 PM
  #226
Coldplay
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
I'd bet it was discussed even before.

Once again, there's a difference between asking for a pack of monsters, and being content with 3 players under 5'8 on your top-6, including one who's paid 5M and is getting older and older.
For being so untalented, have a look at Gionta another small guy:



Come again.

I get that size is important to a certain extent, but it's become such an inferiority complex on these parts dating back to the whole "smurfs" ********, that it's really gotten to a whole new level of delusion. The numbers don't lie. Our "small" players are scoring and we are the best team in the Eastern Conference for much of this season so far.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys up there know what they're doing and we don't need 0-goal Ryane Clowe replacing Brian Gionta.

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03-22-2013, 04:20 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Legit question;

Have you ever had an opinion of your own about our players or the NHL in general, or are you genuinely here just to contradict and try to bash those who don't think like you do? I think I have yet to see a single post of you that is completely hockey-related, and not fan-related. Well... minus those pieces of anthology in which you state that Therrien is a bad coach and everything...
Does an opinion count as my own only if it agrees with yours?

Between the bipolarity, the constant whining about height, contracts, soft goals, fighting, ex-habs; the constant looking for a scapegoat; the inferiority complex...why give an opinion? Unless a player is 6'7 UFC fighter playing for 900k a year while putting up 85 points habs fans will just whine about everything.

It has come to the point where size, contract and ability to fight has determined the value and contributions of a player on these boards. The smaller you are, the more your paid and the less you fight increases your chances of becoming a scapegoat.

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03-22-2013, 04:21 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Does an opinion count as my own only if it agrees with yours?

Between the bipolarity, the constant whining about height, contracts, soft goals, fighting, ex-habs; the constant looking for a scapegoat; the inferiority complex...why give an opinion? Unless a player is 6'7 UFC fighter playing for 900k a year while putting up 85 points habs fans will just whine about everything.

It has come to the point where size, contract and ability to fight has determined the value and contributions of a player on these boards. The smaller you are, the more your paid and the less you fight increases your chances of becoming a scapegoat.
Pretty much.

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03-22-2013, 04:21 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
I'd bet it was discussed even before.

Once again, there's a difference between asking for a pack of monsters, and being content with 3 players under 5'8 on your top-6, including one who's paid 5M and is getting older and older.
Being big and tall is only one attribute one can bring, among 100's of others. You build according to what you have, and our identity is speedy and deadly. And honestly right now it's working, and not like in the JM era where it was 'working'.

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03-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
I'd bet it was discussed even before.

Once again, there's a difference between asking for a pack of monsters, and being content with 3 players under 5'8 on your top-6, including one who's paid 5M and is getting older and older.

I like the job that Gionta is doing this season. I will even defend his play on occasion.

With that said, I am strongly in the same camp as you. We have talented but undersized forwards on this team.

So far it has not been a big issue because we play Toronto and then play Florida or Washington or the Islanders (clearly not the way the schedule fell but using an example of playing bruisers like Boston and Toronto and then playing non-gooning teams).

The big issue is when we have to play the Bruins in a 7 game series. There is no recovering by playing a less physical team the next game. It will be the Bruins again. And their size and physicality will wear down the small talented forwards.

I feel that Gionta should be on the trading block after the season is over. He is producing and we should get a decent return for him.


Last edited by SouthernHab: 03-22-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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03-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
For being so untalented, have a look at Gionta another small guy:



Come again.

I get that size is important to a certain extent, but it's become such an inferiority complex on these parts dating back to the whole "smurfs" ********, that it's really gotten to a whole new level of delusion. The numbers don't lie. Our "small" players are scoring and we are the best team in the Eastern Conference for much of this season so far.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys up there know what they're doing and we don't need 0-goal Ryane Clowe replacing Brian Gionta.
Wow... you completely miss the point. Congratulations for trying to prove that because guys such as Sidney Crosby and Kane dominate this league, having three guys under 5'8 on your top-6 is a winning recipe...

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03-22-2013, 04:29 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Does an opinion count as my own only if it agrees with yours?

Between the bipolarity, the constant whining about height, contracts, soft goals, fighting, ex-habs; the constant looking for a scapegoat; the inferiority complex...why give an opinion? Unless a player is 6'7 UFC fighter playing for 900k a year while putting up 85 points habs fans will just whine about everything.

It has come to the point where size, contract and ability to fight has determined the value and contributions of a player on these boards. The smaller you are, the more your paid and the less you fight increases your chances of becoming a scapegoat.
Another disingenuous post from you. And this one comes with a level of attempted moral superiority.

If you would stop attempting to project other people's beliefs here, you would read that most people want a mixture of skill and toughness.

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03-22-2013, 04:30 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Wow... you completely miss the point. Congratulations for trying to prove that because guys such as Sidney Crosby and Kane dominate this league, having three guys under 5'8 on your top-6 is a winning recipe...
Clearly it is.



Sorry, guess I'm not supposed to post incriminating statistics like that.

I'll go crawl back under my "Pittsburgh is just 1-point ahead of us with Habs having a game in hand" and "Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane are under 6 feet tall" rock now.

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03-22-2013, 04:31 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Does an opinion count as my own only if it agrees with yours?

Between the bipolarity, the constant whining about height, contracts, soft goals, fighting, ex-habs; the constant looking for a scapegoat; the inferiority complex...why give an opinion? Unless a player is 6'7 UFC fighter playing for 900k a year while putting up 85 points habs fans will just whine about everything.

It has come to the point where size, contract and ability to fight has determined the value and contributions of a player on these boards. The smaller you are, the more your paid and the less you fight increases your chances of becoming a scapegoat.
Wow... Thanks for exaggerating everything and blowing this way out of proportion. I'm pretty sure this Gallagher guy is not getting criticized around here. He's 5'8, is in no way a fighter, and doesn't put 85 points a year at this point. Same thing about this Koivu guy, who got a standing ovation as a Duck player when he came back to the Bell Centre. I don't think people here were that critical of him.

You should start by taking your own advice and put everything in perspective.

As for not bothering giving an opinion, well you clearly don't understand what a discussion forum is all about. It's still sad that you feel the urge to come here just to ridicule other people's opinion...

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03-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
Clearly it is.



Sorry, guess I'm not supposed to post incriminating statistics like that.

I'll go crawl back under my "Pittsburgh is just 1-point ahead of us with Habs having a game in hand" and "Sidney Crosby and Patrick Kane are under 6 feet tall" rock now.
30 games clearly indicates that this team is for real and that we found the winning recipe.
Get real. Stop being obnoxious. This team still has a lot to prove. And we clearly don't have the best recipe as of now. If you think we do, you're the most overreacting, obnoxious and overproud fan I've ever seen.

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03-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #236
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Exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion is claiming that the team will collapse because Prust got injured and to look at the NYR as proof of what happens when you lose Prust. That is an exaggeration.

Posting here is just not enjoyable anymore. Different opinions don't bother me, but it isn't even opinions anymore, it's just ideology taking hold. Size, contract and fighting ability have come first in almost any discussion about any player not on the 1st line. It's just absurd, since the Boston game in 10-11 I have never seen a fan base so insecure, it's just pathetic, annoying an exhausting.

Wait until Gallagher makes 5.5 million a year, then his size+contract combo will be the most ideal condition for being a scapegoat. Watch the discussion on Desharnais in the next few years now that he has received an increase in cap hit.

Saku Koivu was treated like dirt over here and was only really appreciated when he left because it fit the whole ex-habs loving mentality that goes around here. People blamed him for the trade of Ribeiro claiming that Koivu forced Gainey's hand. Remember the whole koivu doesn't Kovalev story? Koivu was far from being unanimously loved around here and was often blamed for a lot of the team's problems, some going on to call him the worst captain in habs history.

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03-22-2013, 04:34 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Wow... Thanks for exaggerating everything and blowing this way out of proportion. I'm pretty sure this Gallagher guy is not getting criticized around here. He's 5'8, is in no way a fighter, and doesn't put 85 points a year at this point. Same thing about this Koivu guy, who got a standing ovation as a Duck player when he came back to the Bell Centre. I don't think people here were that critical of him.
Tons of Habs fans wanted to chase Koivu out of town for the sin of being under 6' tall. Much of the same things we hear about Plekanec and Desharnais now I heard about Koivu. I'm sure if the internet exsited in the 80's HIO commentators would have been calling for the Habs to trade that smurf Naslund for yet another enforcer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
30 games clearly indicates that this team is for real and that we found the winning recipe.
Get real. Stop being obnoxious. This team still has a lot to prove. And we clearly don't have the best recipe as of now. If you think we do, you're the most overreacting, obnoxious and overproud fan I've ever seen.
The team should be looking to improve. Every team should be looking to improve, but there's no magic formula despite a vocal minority of posters here acting like the Bruins are the only relevant team. We should be looking for upgrades in every position, but size and fighting ability are just one factor, and the last thing we need is to overpay just so fans don't have to feel bad that their team are called smurfs by Bruins fans.

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03-22-2013, 04:34 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by GFORCE View Post
Without being as tough as the Bruins, you can't hope to win in the playoffs and be a contender night in and night out with as many as 4 players who are 5'8 or under. There's also quite a big difference between wanting to be as tough/big/intimidating as the Bruins, and say, well let's not push our luck, because that's a men's game after all.
Cup-winning teams didn't begin and end with Boston (thank god). But the real irony of using the Bruins as some kind of model is that their supposed toughness didn't win them a Cup. Great defense and goaltending did. Ask yourself this: If 'toughness' and size were such important qualities, why was their closest, toughest opponents the Habs? Why didn't we get steamrolled? And why was their easiest opponents - by far - the equally tough Flyers, who WERE steamrolled?

I'm not saying the Habs don't need more size - they do, especially on defense - but I think you're willing to sacrifice too much to get it. Gionta is more valuable than many people acknowledge, as is Desharnais. Gallagher's contribution goes without saying. Smart, skilled guys are harder to find than big, tough guys (yes, I know... but good luck finding both). Can the Habs win with what they've got? Yes. They've already beat everyone with what they've got. Would I like to add size? Yes. I'm dyin' to see Tinordi gain some experience and confidence, and can't wait to get a preview of him against Boston. Bourque's also got size and strength.

Luckily, it doesn't take perfection to win a Cup. No team has everything. But look at it objectively and you'll realize that right now the Habs have as much as almost any team in the frikkin league. Weird to say with a straight face, but it's true.

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03-22-2013, 04:35 PM
  #239
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30 games clearly indicates that this team is for real and that we found the winning recipe.
Get real. Stop being obnoxious. This team still has a lot to prove. And we clearly don't have the best recipe as of now. If you think we do, you're the most overreacting, obnoxious and overproud fan I've ever seen.
20-5-5 and that's not a winning recipe?

Ok. I guess that makes me overreacting, obnoxious, and overproud.

Maybe the Bruins' inferior 20-6-3 record interests you more, seeing as Shawn Thornton and Lane MacDermid play for them.

The team has a lot to prove, but to write off this season as anything but the execution of a winning recipe is...I don't even know. An outright lie?

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03-22-2013, 04:35 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Exaggerating and blowing things out of proportion is claiming that the team will collapse because Prust got injured and to look at the NYR as proof of what happens when you lose Prust. That is an exaggeration.

Posting here is just not enjoyable anymore. Different opinions don't bother me, but it isn't even opinions anymore, it's just ideology taking hold. Size, contract and fighting ability have come first in almost any discussion about any player not on the 1st line. It's just absurd, since the Boston game in 10-11 I have never seen a fan base so insecure, it's just pathetic, annoying an exhausting.
Then why don't you stop posting here and get out? Weren't you claiming high and strong after the 6-0 beating to the Leafs that you had a life, and that it's why you weren't "overreacting" like everyone?

If you,re that superior, well we're clearly a class under you. We're pathetic and annoying. Fine. Well then why are you hanging out here? So we can all of a sudden realize how we're not worthy of your opinions?

Give me a break.

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03-22-2013, 04:39 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
20-5-5 and that's not a winning recipe?

Ok. I guess that makes me overreacting, obnoxious, and overproud.

Maybe the Bruins' inferior 20-6-3 record interests you more, seeing as Shawn Thornton and Lane MacDermid play for them.

The team has a lot to prove, but to write off this season as anything but the execution of a winning recipe is...I don't even know. An outright lie?
Then why didn't we get a banner for our 30 games start then?

At this point, no team has proven anything this season. The success this team has had this year really got in the head of the fans here. Having a winning recipe is not about having a good sequence for 30 games. Hell, if it was, well the Leafs could just say the same after not making the playoffs for 8 years.

you'd think that after the horrible season we went through, fans would be a bit more humble.

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03-22-2013, 04:41 PM
  #242
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Then why don't you stop posting here and get out? Weren't you claiming high and strong after the 6-0 beating to the Leafs that you had a life, and that it's why you weren't "overreacting" like everyone?

If you,re that superior, well we're clearly a class under you.
I actually posted way less then I used to, it's already starting. Also there are many reasons to lurk here: prospect threads and bulldogs thread, which thank god are free from the absurd discourse that has taken place.


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03-22-2013, 04:41 PM
  #243
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This board reminds me why wealthy families fight more than poor ones. There's more at stake and more to fight over.

The Habs go from poverty to wealth, suddenly becoming rich with talent and wins, and the bickering intensifies.

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03-22-2013, 04:43 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Tons of Habs fans wanted to chase Koivu out of town for the sin of being under 6' tall. Much of the same things we hear about Plekanec and Desharnais now I heard about Koivu. I'm sure if the internet exsited in the 80's HIO commentators would have been calling for the Habs to trade that smurf Naslund for yet another enforcer.



The team should be looking to improve. Every team should be looking to improve, but there's no magic formula despite a vocal minority of posters here acting like the Bruins are the only relevant team. We should be looking for upgrades in every position, but size and fighting ability are just one factor, and the last thing we need is to overpay just so fans don't have to feel bad that their team are called smurfs by Bruins fans.

Your exaggeration failed.

Naslund had Robinson, Nilan, Ewen, Corson, Kordic among others during his tenure here who had Naslund's back.

That is all most of us want here. Talent and toughness to watch over the talent.

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03-22-2013, 04:43 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Tons of Habs fans wanted to chase Koivu out of town for the sin of being under 6' tall. Much of the same things we hear about Plekanec and Desharnais now I heard about Koivu. I'm sure if the internet exsited in the 80's HIO commentators would have been calling for the Habs to trade that smurf Naslund for yet another enforcer.



The team should be looking to improve. Every team should be looking to improve, but there's no magic formula despite a vocal minority of posters here acting like the Bruins are the only relevant team. We should be looking for upgrades in every position, but size and fighting ability are just one factor, and the last thing we need is to overpay just so fans don't have to feel bad that their team are called smurfs by Bruins fans.
What I'm saying is that ignoring the fact that this team could use better size and more sandpaper because we're having a good start is obnoxious and idiotic. It's being short-sighted.

And it's not about following the Bruins recipe. It's about finding a good balance between size, toughness, defense, offense and skills. And I don't quite feel we're right there yet.

I know... Silly me. I should not express my opinion on the matter on a hockey board.

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03-22-2013, 04:44 PM
  #246
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Cup-winning teams didn't begin and end with Boston (thank god). But the real irony of using the Bruins as some kind of model is that their supposed toughness didn't win them a Cup. Great defense and goaltending did. Ask yourself this: If 'toughness' and size were such important qualities, why was their closest, toughest opponents the Habs? Why didn't we get steamrolled? And why was their easiest opponents - by far - the equally tough Flyers, who WERE steamrolled?

I'm not saying the Habs don't need more size - they do, especially on defense - but I think you're willing to sacrifice too much to get it. Gionta is more valuable than many people acknowledge, as is Desharnais. Gallagher's contribution goes without saying. Smart, skilled guys are harder to find than big, tough guys (yes, I know... but good luck finding both). Can the Habs win with what they've got? Yes. They've already beat everyone with what they've got. Would I like to add size? Yes. I'm dyin' to see Tinordi gain some experience and confidence, and can't wait to get a preview of him against Boston. Bourque's also got size and strength.

Luckily, it doesn't take perfection to win a Cup. No team has everything. But look at it objectively and you'll realize that right now the Habs have as much as almost any team in the frikkin league. Weird to say with a straight face, but it's true.
I agree with this, if we ned more size and toughness it's on the back end, unless we can get tough grinders/pests like Boll and/or Talbot to replace Moen and Armstrong who are in clear decline (picking up a goon is an option, but they'd play a fraction of the time meaning we would still need the hated Moen and Armstrong), but why is there such an obsession to mix up the formula when we are winning right now?

There's no shame in looking to the future - the Ryder trade had one eye on the off season, but Ryder also fulfilled a current need. If there was a way to replace Kaberle/Weber with a big defensive defender, great. But there's an obsession with change for the sake of change just because this team doesn't look like the Bruins.

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03-22-2013, 04:45 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Coldplay View Post
For being so untalented, have a look at Gionta another small guy:



Come again.

I get that size is important to a certain extent, but it's become such an inferiority complex on these parts dating back to the whole "smurfs" ********, that it's really gotten to a whole new level of delusion. The numbers don't lie. Our "small" players are scoring and we are the best team in the Eastern Conference for much of this season so far.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys up there know what they're doing and we don't need 0-goal Ryane Clowe replacing Brian Gionta.
We can only hope since no NHL team has won a cup with the so many sub-5'10'' players playing big minutes unless we date back to a different era where everyone was smaller. We need a mix, which is what almost every team that end up winning the cup have.

Currently, half the top 6 are players that take A LOT of physical damage/thrown around. Two in the top six that take some damage occasionally but have enough size/strength to not be affected by it too much. One in the top 6 that can dish out damage to opposition D and take damage from most D without being knocked down/etc. Indeed, Clowe has zero goals this season and struggling much like most of the Skarks outside of that hot start to the season, yet, he adds an element to our top 6 no one gives. Balance is the common factor among the cup winners. Habs are lacking it in size and grit. I'm sure Bergevin sees it too as his first big move was 'overpaying' for Prust.

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03-22-2013, 04:50 PM
  #248
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I agree with this, if we ned more size and toughness it's on the back end, unless we can get tough grinders/pests like Boll and/or Talbot to replace Moen and Armstrong who are in clear decline (picking up a goon is an option, but they'd play a fraction of the time meaning we would still need the hated Moen and Armstrong), but why is there such an obsession to mix up the formula when we are winning right now?

There's no shame in looking to the future - the Ryder trade had one eye on the off season, but Ryder also fulfilled a current need. If there was a way to replace Kaberle/Weber with a big defensive defender, great. But there's an obsession with change for the sake of change just because this team doesn't look like the Bruins.
There is not an obsession with change for the sake of changing.

We will probably have to play either Toronto, Ottawa or Boston in playoffs. Or possibly even two of the three.

Physicality from those three teams will take a toll over a 7 game series.

If the Toronto tough guys can run our skill players without retribution, they will continue to do it. Same for Boston. Same for Ottawa.

Prust cant take them all on.

Or we could just take it like we always have under the Gauthier regime and pat ourselves on the back at how close we came and how if (insert fanboy crush name here) would have gotten more ice time we would have won.

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03-22-2013, 04:50 PM
  #249
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We can only hope since no NHL team has won a cup with the so many sub-5'10'' players playing big minutes unless we date back to a different era where everyone was smaller. We need a mix, which is what almost every team that end up winning the cup have.

Currently, half the top 6 are players that take A LOT of physical damage/thrown around. Two in the top six that take some damage occasionally but have enough size/strength to not be affected by it too much. One in the top 6 that can dish out damage to opposition D and take damage from most D without being knocked down/etc. Indeed, Clowe has zero goals this season and struggling much like most of the Skarks outside of that hot start to the season, yet, he adds an element to our top 6 no one gives. Balance is the common factor among the cup winners. Habs are lacking it in size and grit. I'm sure Bergevin sees it too as his first big move was 'overpaying' for Prust.
I definitely agree with you, but I'm not sure that dead-weight Ryane Clowe in our top 6 is the answer right now. We do need a mix and I suspect Bergevin will add a player in the Clowe mold (if not Clowe himself) at the deadline, but the fact remains that we are pulling off what people never said we could right now - put together a winning team with so many small players.

I'm not taking anything for granted, and I hope we keep it going. Our team has heart, and for being such an intangibles-driven sport, many often (not directing that at you here) seem to overlook that.

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03-22-2013, 04:52 PM
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Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
We can only hope since no NHL team has won a cup with the so many sub-5'10'' players playing big minutes unless we date back to a different era where everyone was smaller. We need a mix, which is what almost every team that end up winning the cup have.

Currently, half the top 6 are players that take A LOT of physical damage/thrown around. Two in the top six that take some damage occasionally but have enough size/strength to not be affected by it too much. One in the top 6 that can dish out damage to opposition D and take damage from most D without being knocked down/etc. Indeed, Clowe has zero goals this season and struggling much like most of the Skarks outside of that hot start to the season, yet, he adds an element to our top 6 no one gives. Balance is the common factor among the cup winners. Habs are lacking it in size and grit. I'm sure Bergevin sees it too as his first big move was 'overpaying' for Prust.
The thing is, is Clowe a top 6 forward anymore? I've wanted Clowe on the Habs and I'd still take him for cheap, but who in the top 6 would he replace that wouldn't seriously take away that lines puck possession ability? At least Prust is a decent skater. Clowe would be a liability on the Plekanec line for instance.

Clowe is worth a gamble, but I'd keep my expectations low with him. It's not just this year, he was showing a decline last year too. Is there any other Clowe types that could be on the market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Your exaggeration failed.

Naslund had Robinson, Nilan, Ewen, Corson, Kordic among others during his tenure here who had Naslund's back.

That is all most of us want here. Talent and toughness to watch over the talent.
That was a pretty clearly a joke, the 86 Habs were probably the toughest of the cup winning teams. But it is certainly true that a fraction of fans hated Koivu because "you can't win with smurfs."

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