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Busting The Patrick Roy Myth

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #201
unknown33
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
I feel Patrick Roy is underappreciated.
Agreed should be rated way higher than #1 of alltime.

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03-22-2013, 08:22 AM
  #202
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And yet Roy squarely loses to Hasek in my mind. And on the ice, when they face each other

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03-22-2013, 08:31 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
I feel Patrick Roy is underappreciated. His year-by year save% rankings are so dominant for his position and he's an all time great in the playoffs. Roy should be a top 10 player all time IMO, HOH underrates him because he peaked after the islanders dyansty. I would easily take roy on my team over a mikita, shore or even bobby hull. Roy's save% longevity and his playoffs cant be ignored. Hes a top 6-12 all time player IMO.
Like I've said elsewhere, when I first came to this board not having spent all that much time analyzing players, I had Roy as my 5th best of all time behind the big 4. And I think that's not all that crazy, even if I wouldn't have him there now. I would still take him over Mikita. Hull or Shore is a tougher choice, but I do see a case for Roy there.

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Originally Posted by Bill_Crosby View Post
Just throwing this out there for discussion.

Do you think if you were to take Roy off either of those Avalanche Cup Winners and were to replace him with Ed Belfour, for example, do you think they still walk away winners?

I don't have a strong opinion either way but I think it gets to the op's point that he seems to be arguing that Roy benefited from playing on some great teams as much as those teams benefited from having him in net.
It really depends on which Belfour you're getting. Belfour had a string of a few years in Dallas where he was every bit as good as Roy usually was in the playoffs. But he wasn't always that good. I don't think Colorado wins the 1996 Cup if Ed Belfour was playing like Ed Belfour in 1996.


Quote:
Originally Posted by unknown33 View Post
Agreed should be rated way higher than #1 of alltime.
Heh. I do see ushvinder's point though. I think Roy is becoming pretty underrated by the younger casual fan who probably thinks it's crazy this board ranked him over Hasek.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-22-2013 at 08:47 AM.
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Old
03-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post



Heh. I do see ushvinder's point though. I think Roy is becoming pretty underrated by the younger casual fan who probably thinks it's crazy this board ranked him over Hasek.
Can you blame them? They saw Hasek and Roy play in the NHL during the same time (roughly a decade) and Hasek was the better goalie during that period.

Roy's play when Hasek wasn't in the league is what makes the Hasek vs. Roy argument close.

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03-22-2013, 09:59 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Because seven Norrises and ten first-team selections isn't enough to justify placement as one of the top handful of defensemen ever...



There is no one on the planet more overrated than Lidstrom. No one.

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03-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
There is no one on the planet more overrated than Lidstrom. No one.
Cam Neely isn't on Earth anymore?

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03-22-2013, 02:00 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Because seven Norrises and ten first-team selections isn't enough to justify placement as one of the top handful of defensemen ever...
You just explained why he's overrated he didn't deserve half of those awards


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It's just as ridiculous to imply (as you have) that he wasn't easily the most important player on those teams in the postseason. There is a middle ground, and that's where the truth lies.
In 86 he was one of 5 players or so that were all pretty much equally important

In 93 he was not any more important than any other best player on a championship team

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03-22-2013, 02:02 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
You just explained why he's overrated he didn't deserve half of those awards



In 86 he was one of 5 players or so that were all pretty much equally important

In 93 he was not any more important than any other best player on a championship team



Lidstrom played during an era of weak defensemen. Thank you for pointing this out.

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03-22-2013, 02:05 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Cam Neely isn't on Earth anymore?
Ever seen me drone on and on about Neely? I can at least be intellectually honest and admit Neely is one of the weaker members. I am not 100% sold he should be in the Hall.

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03-22-2013, 02:15 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Ever seen me drone on and on about Neely? I can at least be intellectually honest... Neely is one of the weaker members. I am not 100% sold he should be in the Hall.
Say what now BamBam? Neely earned his stripes, place in the HHOF... decent little actor as well. Rescue Me with his good buddy Denis Leary; repeat character called Sea Bass in Jim Carreys Dumb & Dumber; Me, Myself & Irene. That right there puts him over the top.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:18 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Say what now BamBam? Neely earned his stripes, place in the HHOF... decent little actor as well. Rescue Me with his good buddy Denis Leary; repeat character called Sea Bass in Jim Carreys Dumb & Dumber; Me, Myself & Irene. That right there puts him over the top.
Well, Neely didn't have the right supporting cast behind him for a
















OSCAR!!!!!!

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03-22-2013, 02:32 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post

In 86 he was one of 5 players or so that were all pretty much equally important
More than just debatable, there were more than a few games in '86 where he was quite clearly the difference.

Quote:
In 93 he was not any more important than any other best player on a championship team
Bull****!
While that Habs team was solid, ran 4 lines and scored by committee. It was Roy that made them Cup Champs and not just a good solid team.
Roy took a beating in the media after the first 2 games of the Nord's series. You could see he was pissed and you actually saw the look in his eyes saying "Oh yeah...watch this!" and that was that.

It's not rare for a goalie to be able to elevate his game in a playoff run. We have seen it often. The difference is how often and consistently Roy did it.

#1 money goalie of all-time period!


So are you now going to bring up '87 again?

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03-22-2013, 02:41 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
In 86 he was one of 5 players or so that were all pretty much equally important

In 93 he was not any more important than any other best player on a championship team
we watch hockey through very different eyes. to me, '93 was the single greatest playoff run by a goalie i've ever seen, and i first started following hockey closely in '89.

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03-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
It was Roy that made them Cup Champs and not just a good solid team.... #1 money goalie of all-time period!
Absolutely. 86 & 93. No Roy, no Cup. 3X Conn Smythe Winner.... however, I disagree with your assertion, along with prolly everyone elses here that Roy, Hasek or Brodeur, take yer pick, #1 Money Goalie All Time. Not so fast & nice try. That honour
goes to Terry Sawchuk in my book.

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03-22-2013, 03:52 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Absolutely. 86 & 93. No Roy, no Cup. 3X Conn Smythe Winner.... however, I disagree with your assertion, along with prolly everyone elses here that Roy, Hasek or Brodeur, take yer pick, #1 Money Goalie All Time. Not so fast & nice try. That honour
goes to Terry Sawchuk in my book.
And that‘s fair enough. I didn‘t see Sawchuk so it‘s hard for me to comment.
Roy is the best money goalie I have seen then

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03-22-2013, 04:22 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyBluesFan View Post
In 86 he was one of 5 players or so that were all pretty much equally important

In 93 he was not any more important than any other best player on a championship team
Roy inspired a whole generation of butterfly goaltenders because of those cup runs. Nobody on those teams stood out like Roy, which you would think makes him pretty damn important.

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03-22-2013, 04:54 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
And that‘s fair enough. I didn‘t see Sawchuk so it‘s hard for me
to comment. Roy is the best money goalie I have seen then
Well, as you have an astute hockey mind and an eye for talent, former goalie yourself, believe me, you would have been completely blown away by Sawchuk. I didnt see him myself until the 60's with the Leafs, but I havent seen anyone since who came close to what he pulled off in when it mattered, was all on the line, playoff games. Most notably the semi's against Chicago in 67. Dryden in 71 comes closest perhaps, Roy in 86 & 93 pretty stunning, a lot of great performances really, but for sheer guts, magic, that guy... well, not enough superlatives to really describe. That he had "issues" and attitude, enjoyed the odd drink and a smoke, that just endeared him to me all the more. Tragic character of course, but I cant help but feel in contemplating the Top 40 here that he's been somewhat shortchanged. Ive got him as my #1 All Time.

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03-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #218
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I would rank Patrick Roy 4th on the all time list of netminders:

1 - Tretiak

2 - Smith, Billy

3 - Hasek

4 - Roy

5 - Plante

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03-22-2013, 06:40 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I would rank Patrick Roy 4th on the all time list of netminders:

1 - Tretiak

2 - Smith, Billy

3 - Hasek

4 - Roy

5 - Plante
I can't think of a single reason to rank Billy Smith over Patrick Roy. Roy was a far superior regular season goalie and has much better longevity. Billy Smith's calling card was being a clutch goalie in the playoffs, but well, it's Patrick Roy we're comparing him to.

And if you value playoffs that highly, how could you not have Roy over Hasek too?

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03-22-2013, 06:44 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
I would rank Patrick Roy 4th on the all time list of netminders:

1 - Tretiak

2 - Smith, Billy

3 - Hasek

4 - Roy

5 - Plante

Billy Smith? Seriously? Could you please explain this? I have never seen Smith ranked this high. I watched Smith play during his reign of stick welding and I might call him the number one all time most entertaining goalie to watch but #2 in skill? Please help me here.

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03-22-2013, 06:46 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I can't think of a single reason to rank Billy Smith over Patrick Roy. Roy was a far superior regular season goalie and has much better longevity. Billy Smith's calling card was being a clutch goalie in the playoffs, but well, it's Patrick Roy we're comparing him to.

And if you value playoffs that highly, how could you not have Roy over Hasek too?


Exactly, Billy Smith was a clutch playoff goalie and he got 4 Cups in a row. Roy could only dream of winning so many consecutive Cups.


I ranked Hasek higher than Roy because of Hasek's outstanding performance at the international competitions.


PS. I am glad you're having no doubts about Tretiak at No 1.

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03-22-2013, 06:47 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Yamaguchi View Post
Exactly, Billy Smith was a clutch playoff goalie and he got 4 Cups in a row. Roy could only dream of winning so many consecutive Cups.


I ranked Hasek higher than Roy because of Hasek's outstanding performance at the international competitions.


PS. I am glad you're having no doubts about Tretiak at No 1.

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03-22-2013, 06:47 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Billy Smith? Seriously? Could you please explain this? I have never seen Smith ranked this high. I watched Smith play during his reign of stick welding and I might call him the number one all time most entertaining goalie to watch but #2 in skill? Please help me here.

Not in skill. In achievements

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03-22-2013, 06:50 PM
  #224
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I guess Ken Morrow is a better player than Wayne Gretzky then.

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Old
03-22-2013, 06:52 PM
  #225
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I guess Ken Morrow is a better player than Wayne Gretzky then.

Actually, if you watch the 1983 Stanley Cup Final series, you can certainly think so.

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