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Max Talbot Available

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:08 PM
  #276
Tripod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Talbot's not really that good at faceoffs. He can play center in a pinch but he's more suited for the wing.

Anyway I think most Flyers fans wouldn't want Boyle for Talbot. If we're trading Talbot we'll probably be looking for futures in return.
agreed. I would want a pick or a young #6 dman that can move the puck. Then sign Talbots replacement in the offseason

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03-22-2013, 10:20 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
That's fine, but one bad year doesn't completely destroy a player's value. Talbot had a career year here last year while playing on the third line. Why shouldn't Flyer's fans say he's a third line when he produced like a third liner last year and is playing in a very similar role this year?

I understand that he was bad for his last year in a Pens uniform. But too many Pens fans want to label him as the player that he was in his last year instead of the player that he's been for most of the rest of his career.
No, one bad year doesn't destroy his value, the problem is that both sides of the aisle put different value on him from the get-go. 4th liners aren't worth that kind of contract on a team with as many players making big money as the Penguins have...if you use him on the 3rd line then yes, that contract is an easier sell, but he wasn't a 3rd liner in Pittsburgh and none of us saw him as one.

I can buy still calling him an 'elite' 4th liner, if such a thing exists he's been a prime example of it for 4 of the past 6 seasons, but he doesn't have the skill to be a consistent 3rd liner in my eyes and I was a guy who watched him frequently back when he played in Hull/Gatineau. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm just saying I don't think he's worth his contract.


As for Glass...only one poster mentioned threw his name around in this thread and I can't tell what team he's even a fan of. Glass is atrocious and there isn't a Penguins fan around here that wouldn't accept a 7th round pick for him. Tomas Vokoun has more points than he does and for being a supposed PK wiz according to our coach our PK numbers this year are the worst they've been in years.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:24 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
No, one bad year doesn't destroy his value, the problem is that both sides of the aisle put different value on him from the get-go. 4th liners aren't worth that kind of contract on a team with as many players making big money as the Penguins have...if you use him on the 3rd line then yes, that contract is an easier sell, but he wasn't a 3rd liner in Pittsburgh and none of us saw him as one.

I can buy still calling him an 'elite' 4th liner, if such a thing exists he's been a prime example of it for 4 of the past 6 seasons, but he doesn't have the skill to be a consistent 3rd liner in my eyes and I was a guy who watched him frequently back when he played in Hull/Gatineau. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm just saying I don't think he's worth his contract.


As for Glass...only one poster mentioned threw his name around in this thread and I can't tell what team he's even a fan of. Glass is atrocious and there isn't a Penguins fan around here that wouldn't accept a 7th round pick for him. Tomas Vokoun has more points than he does.
And yet his statistics say otherwise. Even this year in which he is lower than his career averages, he is. 3lines x 3 players x 30 teams=270. So top 270 players are 3rd liners or higher. Talbot is tied for 218. 3rd liner!!! SO 3rd liner in production AND good defensively and on the PK. AGAIN...3RD LINER!!


Last edited by Tripod: 03-22-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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Old
03-22-2013, 10:33 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
And yet his statistics say otherwise
But they really don't. In his 6 seasons in Pittsburgh he had 8 points (48 games), 24, 26, 22, 7 (45 games), and 21 points.

In those 4 full seasons his numbers were extremely consistent, averaging 11 goals and 23 points. Those are good-great numbers for a fourth liner and poor numbers for a third liner.


For the record, his placement in scoring amongst Penguins forwards those full seasons: 10th, 8th, 11th, and 12th. The only one his scoring cracked the top 9 was in a season in which he was one of only 8 Penguins forwards to play at least 60 games.


Last edited by Big McLargehuge: 03-22-2013 at 10:42 PM.
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Old
03-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
No, one bad year doesn't destroy his value, the problem is that both sides of the aisle put different value on him from the get-go. 4th liners aren't worth that kind of contract on a team with as many players making big money as the Penguins have...if you use him on the 3rd line then yes, that contract is an easier sell, but he wasn't a 3rd liner in Pittsburgh and none of us saw him as one.

I can buy still calling him an 'elite' 4th liner, if such a thing exists he's been a prime example of it for 4 of the past 6 seasons, but he doesn't have the skill to be a consistent 3rd liner in my eyes and I was a guy who watched him frequently back when he played in Hull/Gatineau. I'm not saying he's a bad player, I'm just saying I don't think he's worth his contract.


As for Glass...only one poster mentioned threw his name around in this thread and I can't tell what team he's even a fan of. Glass is atrocious and there isn't a Penguins fan around here that wouldn't accept a 7th round pick for him. Tomas Vokoun has more points than he does and for being a supposed PK wiz according to our coach our PK numbers this year are the worst they've been in years.
See, you're approaching this from kind of a skewed perspective as well. The Pens have one of the best offensive units in the league, featuring the two best and highest paid players in the world, so of course Talbot is considered a luxury at that price. For most teams, his contract isn't a huge price to pay for a guy that could play on most of the third lines in the league, while bringing a lot more than just points to the roster.

You're right, based on pure talent alone, Talbot probably isn't a third liner. But he has a certain amount of intangibles that elevate his productivity. He's a guy who thinks the game very well. I will say that most Flyers fans don't view his contract as a detriment compared to what he brings on the ice.

No issues with your Glass analysis. At this point, he offers you guys just about what Rinaldo offers the Flyers.

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03-22-2013, 10:50 PM
  #281
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Moen would fill the void beautifully in Philly. I'd be willing to add habs 3rd rounder along with him for Talbot. Same salaries, Same length.

I'd go with the Stars 3rd rounder if a 5th rounder comes back with Talbot.

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03-22-2013, 10:51 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
See, you're approaching this from kind of a skewed perspective as well. The Pens have one of the best offensive units in the league, featuring the two best and highest paid players in the world, so of course Talbot is considered a luxury at that price. For most teams, his contract isn't a huge price to pay for a guy that could play on most of the third lines in the league, while bringing a lot more than just points to the roster.

You're right, based on pure talent alone, Talbot probably isn't a third liner. But he has a certain amount of intangibles that elevate his productivity. He's a guy who thinks the game very well. I will say that most Flyers fans don't view his contract as a detriment compared to what he brings on the ice.

No issues with your Glass analysis. At this point, he offers you guys just about what Rinaldo offers the Flyers.
Except Rinaldo, as much as I hate the guy, at least can take people off their game and draw the occasional penalty showing some modicum of purpose. Glass doesn't draw penalties, he just takes them.

Anyway, let's just tap the glove and move on since we seem to generally agree that Talbot is a good player for what he is and just disagree on what is really a meaningless distinction.

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03-22-2013, 10:52 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
See, you're approaching this from kind of a skewed perspective as well. The Pens have one of the best offensive units in the league, featuring the two best and highest paid players in the world, so of course Talbot is considered a luxury at that price. For most teams, his contract isn't a huge price to pay for a guy that could play on most of the third lines in the league, while bringing a lot more than just points to the roster.

You're right, based on pure talent alone, Talbot probably isn't a third liner. But he has a certain amount of intangibles that elevate his productivity. He's a guy who thinks the game very well. I will say that most Flyers fans don't view his contract as a detriment compared to what he brings on the ice.

No issues with your Glass analysis. At this point, he offers you guys just about what Rinaldo offers the Flyers.
He once thought the game well enough to be a second liner on a cup winning team if you really think about it.

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03-22-2013, 10:56 PM
  #284
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He once thought the game well enough to be a second liner on a cup winning team if you really think about it.
During a time basically every player on the team was tried on that side. It wasn't for long periods it was for stretches.

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03-22-2013, 10:59 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
During a time basically every player on the team was tried on that side. It wasn't for long periods it was for stretches.
Well, then it was quite the fortuitous 16 game stretch (conveniently related to the eventual conn smythe winner's playoffs taking off), wasn't it?

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03-22-2013, 11:01 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Except Rinaldo, as much as I hate the guy, at least can take people off their game and draw the occasional penalty showing some modicum of purpose. Glass doesn't draw penalties, he just takes them.

Anyway, let's just tap the glove and move on since we seem to generally agree that Talbot is a good player for what he is and just disagree on what is really a meaningless distinction.
Yeah, Glass just seems like a guy that just kind of floats and will occasionally hit someone. Rinaldo is the motor guy that constantly keeps coming at you until he takes you off your game.

Agreed. And I didn't mean any disrespect. On the Pens, yes, Talbot is a fourth liner. They have a very deep team, probably the deepest in the league. On most teams though, Talbot fits in very nicely on the third line as a guy who provides secondary offense and solid two-way play. Not an all star, but a very useful player.

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03-22-2013, 11:49 PM
  #287
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I'm leaning more and more toward hoping that the Flyers keep Talbot and re-sign Gagne ($2.5 x 2). They've looked good together, and could mesh well with a bounce-back Couturier on a 3rd line--good defense, decent skill. They tried it earlier this year and it, like the rest of the season, looked like crap. But Couturier just has no confidence right now.

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03-22-2013, 11:55 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm leaning more and more toward hoping that the Flyers keep Talbot and re-sign Gagne ($2.5 x 2). They've looked good together, and could mesh well with a bounce-back Couturier on a 3rd line--good defense, decent skill. They tried it earlier this year and it, like the rest of the season, looked like crap. But Couturier just has no confidence right now.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Schenn-Simmonds
Gagne-Couturier-Talbot
McGinn-Laughton-Rinaldo
I mentioned it earlier, but guys like Talbot do wonders for mentoring guys like Couturier, Laughton, and Cousins about what it's like to play in the NHL. Too many fans are willing to trade Talbot for that second round pick instead of looking at the experience that he has to offer to the young guys coming into the lineup over the next couple of years. It also doesn't hurt that he's still a pretty good player on top of that.

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03-23-2013, 12:13 AM
  #289
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Why the Christ are we looking to trade Max? I despair.

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03-23-2013, 12:49 AM
  #290
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He'd be a good fit on the Canucks. Could we work something around Booth (will be a stalwart in the playoffs) and a 5th for Talbot and a 4th???

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03-23-2013, 01:53 AM
  #291
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He'd be a good fit on the Canucks. Could we work something around Booth (will be a stalwart in the playoffs) and a 5th for Talbot and a 4th???
He just got hurt and the Flyers aren't making the playoffs so him being a stalwart in the playoffs is kind of irrelevant.

I think the Flyers would be looking for futures instead of roster players if they were trading Talbot.

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03-23-2013, 12:00 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
But they really don't. In his 6 seasons in Pittsburgh he had 8 points (48 games), 24, 26, 22, 7 (45 games), and 21 points.

In those 4 full seasons his numbers were extremely consistent, averaging 11 goals and 23 points. Those are good-great numbers for a fourth liner and poor numbers for a third liner.


For the record, his placement in scoring amongst Penguins forwards those full seasons: 10th, 8th, 11th, and 12th. The only one his scoring cracked the top 9 was in a season in which he was one of only 8 Penguins forwards to play at least 60 games.
again...those are 3rd liner numbers...not 4th liner. Top 270 in points=3rd liners. Using your average of 23 point average...that would put him at #232...thus a 3rd liner. And seeing that there is another 38 player before he reaches 4th line status...he is comfortably in the 3rd liner status. You did part of the math...but you didn't finish it.

AND...added to the fact that there are 3rd liners that are average on D or don't PK, then I can comfortably say he produces as a good 3rd liner.

AND...the fact that his career playoff PPG is at .5...up from .3...he becomes MORE valuable in the playoffs...which is what you want.

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03-23-2013, 12:02 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He just got hurt and the Flyers aren't making the playoffs so him being a stalwart in the playoffs is kind of irrelevant.

I think the Flyers would be looking for futures instead of roster players if they were trading Talbot.
They clearly expect to be in the playoffs next year though. That's not a reason to dump him.

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03-24-2013, 08:33 AM
  #294
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They clearly expect to be in the playoffs next year though. That's not a reason to dump him.
I don't think any Flyer fans are looking to dump him. They are saying that if there is a fair-good trade available, that the would do it. Not often Philly is sellers. Take advantage of it.

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03-24-2013, 09:12 AM
  #295
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Unless the Flyers were getting back a solid 3rd or 4th line player signed a couple more years at 900,000 or so, there's no point in trading Talbot because they'll just have to find a replacement in free agency.

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