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Old
03-22-2013, 10:58 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Just like the NHL, you can ice 18 skaters and 2 goalies. Enough for 4 lines, 3 defense pairs, and 2 goalies. So you can go with 7 defensemen if you want, but then you'd have to figure out which forward(s) is/are double-shifting.
It has been common for NHL teams to dress seven defensemen in the playoffs. There was a stat about it during a telecast and I recall the percentage was over 50% of teams during the postseason had at one point or another played 7 dmen. The Soviets also had seven blueliners in the early eighties in some international matches.

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03-22-2013, 11:00 PM
  #577
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I might as well bring my special teams on for the first time as well:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Dany Heatley
James Patrick-Gary Suter


Petrov has a nice slapper but he's also a capable playmaker.

PP2:

Max Bentley-Claude Lemieux-Daniel Sedin
Bobby Schmautz-Viacheslav Fetisov


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We're thinking Schmautz halfwhat legendary slapper could be used here? Could have Reinhart as well but he's a leftie. We also perhaps want to save him from special teams becouse he's probably gonna be tried for his very best on the top pairing with Fetisov. That's another story but we have some faith in his positional play there.

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Ken Morrow


No worries here i suppose.

BP2:

Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
Viacheslav Fetisov-James Patrick


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We also have Marcel Bonin and Andy Hebenton to perhaps take Gagnes spot here.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 03-22-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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03-22-2013, 11:03 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I might as well bring my special teams on for the first time as well:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Dany Heatley
James Patrick-Gary Suter

PP2:

Max Bentley-Claude Lemieux-Daniel Sedin
Bobby Schmautz-Viacheslav Fetisov


Fetisov on the second pairings becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We're thinking Schmautz halfwhat legendary slapper could be used here? Could have Reinhart as well but he's a leftie. We also perhaps want to save him from special teams becouse he's probably gonna be tried for his best playing on the top pairing with Fetisov.

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Ken Morrow


No worries here i suppose.

BP2:

Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
Viacheslav Fetisov-James Patrick


Fetisov on the second pairings becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We also have Marcel Bonin and Andy Hebenton to perhaps take Ganges spot here.
Reinhart is a PP specialist, definitely have him there somewhere.

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03-22-2013, 11:13 PM
  #579
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Here's what the books I own say about Gustafsson's positions. Make of it what you will.

Hollander scouting reports
1982 "technically a right wing but moves around a lot"
1982 no mention
1983 no mention
1984 "Used at center mostly but has played all three forward positions"
1985 "Fits in well at left wing, right wing, or center"
1988 listed as RW

Berger scouting reports
1986-87 listed as LW
1988-89 listed as LW

Eliteprospects calls him a center, it would be interesting to see what positions he played when on the national team.

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03-22-2013, 11:16 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Here's what the books I own say about Gustafsson's positions. Make of it what you will.

Hollander scouting reports
1982 "technically a right wing but moves around a lot"
1982 no mention
1983 no mention
1984 "Used at center mostly but has played all three forward positions"
1985 "Fits in well at left wing, right wing, or center"
1988 listed as RW

Berger scouting reports
1986-87 listed as LW
1988-89 listed as LW
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Reinhart is a PP specialist, definitely have him there somewhere.
Mhm. I think i know how i would change the special teams then. And if Morrow is injured we sure got it fixed with Jeff Brown in the lineup.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 03-22-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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03-23-2013, 01:52 AM
  #581
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So what do you think, should i go out on a limb and play James Patrick with Fetisov instead of Reinhard? He's a rightie and although i do have some faith in Reinharts positional play perhaps Patrick is the more natural choice. If wont be a top pairing in the league either way but i am just a little unsure. The thing is that Fetisov is supposed to balance his game to take some heat of his partner.

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03-23-2013, 02:07 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Thoughts on my minutes chart? Should my 2nd line be playing more? 3rd line less? (Went with the standard 7min of PP and PK time)

Woody Dumart - Doug Gilmour - Mike Bossy
Paul Thompson - Frank Fredrickson - Bob Nevin
Gilles Tremblay - Ivan Hlinka - John MacLean
Dennis Hull - Craig Conroy - Ryan Kesler

Ching Johnson - Carl Brewer
Art Duncan - Jack Crawford
Phil Housley - Al Arbour


Forward Minutes
Player ES PP PK Total
Dumart 16 0 0 16
Gilmour 16 4 0 20
Bossy 16 5 0 21
Thompson 13 3 0 16
Fredrickson 13 4 0 17
Nevin 13 0 4 17
Tremblay 12 0 3 15
Hlinka 12 3 0 15
MacLean 12 2 0 14
Hull 5 1 0 6
Conroy 5 0 4 9
Kesler 5 0 3 8
TOTAL 138 22 14 174

Defense Minutes
Player ES PP PK Total
Johnson 18.5 0 4 22.5
Brewer 18.5 2.5 3 24
Duncan 16.5 4.5 0 21
Crawford 16.5 0 4 20.5
Housley 11 6 0 17
Arbour 11 0 3 14
TOTAL 92 13 14 119
Looks pretty good. Is 5 min of even strength time a little low for a 4th line in the regular season? Obviously benches often shorten in the playoffs.

Who are the spare penalty killers if one of the main guys isn't available?

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03-23-2013, 02:10 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
As you may remember my lower lines where like this the last time:

Gainey-Carbonneau-with Schmautz ready to take pass and slap it. Playing 1C minutes.

Gagne-Bonin-Gustafsson. This line would'nt play much but could find Gagne lighting the lamp some times.


But now i'm thinking something like:

Gagne-Carbonneau-Hebenton. A line capable of going 1-1 against top opponents.

Gainey-Gustafsson-Schmautz. Will play more than in the other scenario, looking kinda harmonic except for the grit and nastyness of course.

Whatta you think?
You invested high picks in drafting the best defensive winger of all time and arguably the best defensive center of all time. You absolutely can't play either of them on the 4th line.

It's a tough spot - you drafted two defensive forwards who absolutely deserve pretty big minutes, but you really don't have a third member of the line who really deserves those minutes

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03-23-2013, 02:19 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I might as well bring my special teams on for the first time as well:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Dany Heatley
James Patrick-Gary Suter


Petrov has a nice slapper but he's also a capable playmaker.

PP2:

Max Bentley-Claude Lemieux-Daniel Sedin
Bobby Schmautz-Viacheslav Fetisov


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We're thinking Schmautz halfwhat legendary slapper could be used here? Could have Reinhart as well but he's a leftie. We also perhaps want to save him from special teams becouse he's probably gonna be tried for his very best on the top pairing with Fetisov. That's another story but we have some faith in his positional play there.

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Ken Morrow


No worries here i suppose.

BP2:

Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
Viacheslav Fetisov-James Patrick


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We also have Marcel Bonin and Andy Hebenton to perhaps take Gagnes spot here.

Max Bentley is your best offensive player - he needs to be on the first PP. he spent a lot of time on the point of the PP, so you can put him there if you think Heatley will cry if he isn't on the first PP.

I guess Claude Lemieux can pass as a scoring line glue guy at even strength, but he really has no place on an ATD powerplay. Actually now that I think about it, what about a Gainey - Carbs - Lemieux third line?

I think you need Fetisov on the top PK, probably instead of Morrow

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03-23-2013, 02:23 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
So what do you think, should i go out on a limb and play James Patrick with Fetisov instead of Reinhard? He's a rightie and although i do have some faith in Reinharts positional play perhaps Patrick is the more natural choice. If wont be a top pairing in the league either way but i am just a little unsure. The thing is that Fetisov is supposed to balance his game to take some heat of his partner.
I think Reinhart was better than Patrick when he played, but he was too injury prone and had too short a career to play big minutes at this level.

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03-23-2013, 09:23 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Max Bentley is your best offensive player - he needs to be on the first PP. he spent a lot of time on the point of the PP, so you can put him there if you think Heatley will cry if he isn't on the first PP.

I guess Claude Lemieux can pass as a scoring line glue guy at even strength, but he really has no place on an ATD powerplay. Actually now that I think about it, what about a Gainey - Carbs - Lemieux third line?

I think you need Fetisov on the top PK, probably instead of Morrow
I hear you, when it comes to Lemieux he's supposed to cover the goalie though, i dont know if i have anyone better at that for the second PP, if i could'nt place like Gary Suter or big-bodied Fetisov there. I'll dig into it but please if you have thoughts about Claude do tell.


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03-23-2013, 09:43 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You invested high picks in drafting the best defensive winger of all time and arguably the best defensive center of all time. You absolutely can't play either of them on the 4th line.

It's a tough spot - you drafted two defensive forwards who absolutely deserve pretty big minutes, but you really don't have a third member of the line who really deserves those minutes
Maybe i can play Claude Lemieux with Carbonneau and Gainey and Marcel Bonin with Sedin and Petrov. I need someone good in the corner there to utilize Petrov fully in his Phil Esposito-like(although NOT identical) role on that line. Bonin would provide some defense there as well. Bobby Schmautz could be a player for one of the 1A, 1B, 1C-lines though, becouse although prone to minor injuries, his offence mainly on even strenght was very decent, were talking about an almost PPG player here(Not counting his first few years pedestrian rate) with intangibles.

Perhaps i need to be aware lineup-assassination time is near.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 03-23-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old
03-23-2013, 12:55 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Looks pretty good. Is 5 min of even strength time a little low for a 4th line in the regular season? Obviously benches often shorten in the playoffs.

Who are the spare penalty killers if one of the main guys isn't available?
Thanks for the advice. If I give the 4th line an extra minute of even strength, which line do you think I should take that away from?

Spare PKers will be Gilmour, Dumart, and Duncan

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03-23-2013, 01:00 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I might as well bring my special teams on for the first time as well:

PP1:

Vladimir Petrov-Brendan Shanahan-Dany Heatley
James Patrick-Gary Suter


Petrov has a nice slapper but he's also a capable playmaker.

PP2:

Max Bentley-Claude Lemieux-Daniel Sedin
Bobby Schmautz-Viacheslav Fetisov


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We're thinking Schmautz halfwhat legendary slapper could be used here? Could have Reinhart as well but he's a leftie. We also perhaps want to save him from special teams becouse he's probably gonna be tried for his very best on the top pairing with Fetisov. That's another story but we have some faith in his positional play there.

BP1:

Bob Gainey-Guy Carbonneau
Ulf Samuelsson-Ken Morrow


No worries here i suppose.

BP2:

Simon Gagne-Bengt-Åke Gustafsson
Viacheslav Fetisov-James Patrick


Fetisov on the second becouse we gonna ride him hard 5-on-5.

We also have Marcel Bonin and Andy Hebenton to perhaps take Gagnes spot here.

I think Fetisov needs to be 1st unit both special teams. Those are the most important minutes, and he's the best you got. Maybe he could play 2nd PP unit, because Patrick-Suter will be pretty good, but definitely have him on the 1st PK. A minutes chart might help sort things out.

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03-24-2013, 03:32 AM
  #590
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Wondering if anyone has any better ideas for how to arrange my defensemen.

I currently have them set up in the most traditional way - 3 balanced pairings:

Paul Coffey - Bill White
Lloyd Cook - Tom Johnson
Gary Bergman - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Other possibilities:

Balanced top pairing (to the extent that any pairing with Paul Coffey can be called balanced), defensively-oriented second pairing, offensively oriented third pairing:

Paul Coffey - Bill White
Gary Bergman - Tom Johnson
Lloyd Cook - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Offensively oriented top pairing, uber-shutdown second pairing:

Gary Bergman - Paul Coffey
Tom Johnson - Bill White
Lloyd Cook - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Also, based on prior feedback, I'm removing Bob Dailey from the PK and having Lloyd Cook play next to Bergman on the second PK unit. On further reflection, I think the advantage to having a rightie on the PK is very minor compared to just having the better player.

Does anyone think I should bench Dailey and play the defense-first Doug Young instead?


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03-24-2013, 03:34 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I think Fetisov needs to be 1st unit both special teams. Those are the most important minutes, and he's the best you got. Maybe he could play 2nd PP unit, because Patrick-Suter will be pretty good, but definitely have him on the 1st PK. A minutes chart might help sort things out.
Yeah, when you don't really have a credible #2 defenseman (I guess Gary Suter is his second best dman), you ride your #1 hard.

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03-24-2013, 06:03 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Wondering if anyone has any better ideas for how to arrange my defensemen.

I currently have them set up in the most traditional way - 3 balanced pairings:

Paul Coffey - Bill White
Lloyd Cook - Tom Johnson
Gary Bergman - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Other possibilities:

Balanced top pairing (to the extent that any pairing with Paul Coffey can be called balanced), defensively-oriented second pairing, offensively oriented third pairing:

Paul Coffey - Bill White
Gary Bergman - Tom Johnson
Lloyd Cook - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Offensively oriented top pairing, uber-shutdown second pairing:

Gary Bergman - Paul Coffey
Tom Johnson - Bill White
Lloyd Cook - Bob Dailey
Doug Young

Also, based on prior feedback, I'm removing Bob Dailey from the PK and having Lloyd Cook play next to Bergman on the second PK unit. On further reflection, I think the advantage to having a rightie on the PK is very minor compared to just having the better player.

Does anyone think I should bench Dailey and play the defense-first Doug Young instead?
I don't like the 3rd setup with Bergman - Coffey at all, but I think the other two are viable, and which way you go should depend on your opponent and how strong their 1st line is (particularly compared to their 2nd).

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03-24-2013, 06:12 PM
  #593
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I don't like the 3rd setup with Bergman - Coffey at all, but I think the other two are viable, and which way you go should depend on your opponent and how strong their 1st line is (particularly compared to their 2nd).
Thanks.

My thought with the third set up is that Bergman would basically play the role for Coffey that he played for Park in the 1972. The pairings in the Summit Series were

Bergman - Park
Stapleton - White
Savard - Lapointe (both young and before the dynasty days)


Not sure about the ice time - I think it was distributed fairly evenly between the 3 pairs. Of course, Coffey is a much more extreme defenseman than Park, so maybe it wouldn't work.

The only point to the third setup is to hard match Johnson-White against top #1 lines, but I guess that can wait until the playoffs. I'll probably stick with the standard setup for the roster post / assassinations.

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03-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #594
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After thinking about it more, I'm leaning towards benching Dailey in favor of Young. That gives me a bottom pairing of Bergman - Young that will take care of their own end first, but both with the skills to get the puck up the ice.

It helps the penalty kill:

Johnson - White
then
Bergman - Young

With Lloyd Cook as the spare.

And the Cook - Johnson pairing is definitely capable of doing mop up duty at the very end of the powerplay after Kovalchuk-Coffey play almost the whole thing. And it ends the powerplay with my defensive pairings intact.

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03-25-2013, 12:38 PM
  #595
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So... who do you think I should make captain?

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03-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
After thinking about it more, I'm leaning towards benching Dailey in favor of Young. That gives me a bottom pairing of Bergman - Young that will take care of their own end first, but both with the skills to get the puck up the ice.

It helps the penalty kill:

Johnson - White
then
Bergman - Young

With Lloyd Cook as the spare.

And the Cook - Johnson pairing is definitely capable of doing mop up duty at the very end of the powerplay after Kovalchuk-Coffey play almost the whole thing. And it ends the powerplay with my defensive pairings intact.
That's what I was about to suggest.

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03-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #597
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So... who do you think I should make captain?
I would say Gottselig if he wasn't a 4th liner on your team, so I guess I would have to go with Gadsby.

It's a real shame that you didn't draft a RWer when you took Gottselig, because it doesn't allow you to take full advantage of the steal you got with Igor Liba. Had you taken some of the RW's that went around the same time Gottselig did...Litzenberger, Doan, Nevin, you would have had a really strong 3rd line.

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03-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #598
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I would say Gottselig if he wasn't a 4th liner on your team, so I guess I would have to go with Gadsby.

It's a real shame that you didn't draft a RWer when you took Gottselig, because it doesn't allow you to take full advantage of the steal you got with Igor Liba. Had you taken some of the RW's that went around the same time Gottselig did...Litzenberger, Doan, Nevin, you would have had a really strong 3rd line.
I think I still do have a strong 3rd line, but yes, Doan was actually in my sights. Alas, he went way earlier than I expected.

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03-26-2013, 06:11 PM
  #599
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So... who do you think I should make captain?
I'm sorry - I didn't see this question when first asked. Like I said, I think Mike Peca and Harvey Pulford have the best leadership creds on your team. I questioned Pulford's hockey skills in the other thread, but I don't think there's any questioning his leadership - wasn't he captain of the Silver 7?

And Peca was the best combo of defensive play and leadership since Carbonneau, I think. Mike Richards looked like he was on his way there, but then decided to join Team Party instead.

On the other hand, as skilled as Gadsby was, I don't think he that well-known for his leadership. He was captain of the Black Hawks for 3 years, back when that team was the laughingstock of the Original 6 league, then gave away the captaincy to Gus Mortson.


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03-26-2013, 06:17 PM
  #600
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I'm curious to know if anyone thinks I should give Clint Smith a more regular role on the team to help out the second powerplay. He would take away from the intangibles/defensive ability of the 4th line though and basically be a PP specialist. Here is my bottom 6 as currently constructed:

Tony Leswick - Ken Mosdell - Jerry Toppazzini
Ed Sandford- Bill Thoms - Rejean Houle
Clint Smith

For referense, here are my special teams:

PP
Sid Abel - Phil Esposito - Daniel Alfredsson
Ilya Kovalchuk - Paul Coffey

Milan Novy - Bill Thoms - George Armstrong
Lloyd Cook - Tom Johnson

PK
Ken Mosdell - Jerry Toppazzini
Tom Johnson - Bill White

Bill Thoms - Tony Leswick
Gary Bergman - Doug Young

extras: Sid Abel - George Armstrong
Lloyd Cook

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