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Some Interesting Stats About Our Offense

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:35 PM
  #76
ImIdaho
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Dude, like it or not, it's on the players for not getting it done. Changing coaches is not going to have this gigantic appreciable affect on our production if certain players who are paid mucho bucks to produce don't PRODUCE!!! It's that simple; stop tying the whole process into the coach and only the coach.
To a degree, it is. However, what kind of offensive system has he in place for this team? The man shuffles lines to a fault. Even when we do have a line that is clicking, he still changes it up. That's something that always infuriated me since he got here.

If the players are playing like ****, wouldn't common sense say to limit their playing time, not increase it in the hopes of them pulling through? Something that has routinely bit us on the ass.

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03-22-2013, 10:36 PM
  #77
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Hagelin. That's 6 players, two legitimate lines that should be producing. Actually, some people have been calling for Torts to put back together Nash, Stepan, and Hagelin.

Del Zotto also needs to pull his head out of his ass with regards to shooting. He shouldn't be this bad for this long. Stralman is probably a better player to play on the PP but Torts - for one reason or another - loves putting Girardi out there.
Look, I'm down with moving on without Tort's but it is not as simple as changing a coach and then all of a sudden, Richards and Gaborik stop sucking and decide to actually start playing and earning their ridiculous contracts. I/We should all have no issues with the play of Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Nash, to date. So, it all falls on our two non productive stars; that's it and that's all.

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03-22-2013, 10:37 PM
  #78
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drew what is your problem with slats?

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03-22-2013, 10:40 PM
  #79
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drew what is your problem with slats?
Once we can Sather, we can stop overpaying FA and start developing our own superstars!!!!

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03-22-2013, 10:40 PM
  #80
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To a degree, it is. However, what kind of offensive system has he in place for this team? The man shuffles lines to a fault. Even when we do have a line that is clicking, he still changes it up. That's something that always infuriated me since he got here.

If the players are playing like ****, wouldn't common sense say to limit their playing time, not increase it in the hopes of them pulling through? Something that has routinely bit us on the ass.
Look, Tort's has a lot a good qualities and he wears his emotions on his sleeve and wants to win so badly but I've also come to the conclusion that "it's time to move on."
I just hope we all aren't disappointed if/when a coaching change happens and then doesn't give us the desired results we are all searching for!

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03-22-2013, 10:44 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
Look, I'm down with moving on without Tort's but it is not as simple as changing a coach and then all of a sudden, Richards and Gaborik stop sucking and decide to actually start playing and earning their ridiculous contracts. I/We should all have no issues with the play of Stepan, Callahan, Hagelin, Nash, to date. So, it all falls on our two non productive stars; that's it and that's all.
Torts doesn't have a clue on how to make our offense click. This guy's bread and butter is having a team that fights for loose pucks, forechecking, playing hard along the boards. What this team does with the puck is a different matter, and players are to blame, but both Torts and Sullivan have shown their ineptitude as well. You can't mishmash players in the hopes they spontaneously click, and when players have shown they can't play a high level, you do not give them more minutes.

I'm all for canning Torts and getting someone who preaches more of an up-tempo offensive game and who can better train (Because their positioning and shooting is awful, to put it lightly) players. If the same problems persist, then the Rangers at least know who to trade and who to buyout.

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03-22-2013, 10:48 PM
  #82
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drew, heres a massive point youre ignoring.


Tortorella is changing the lines even when players are producing (ie: Nash, Hagelin, Stepan).


Its not just about Gaborik and Richards not producing. Its about Nash producing and being taken off that respective line that is working.

THE LINES.... are ENTIRELY on the coaching.

Its a virtual guarantee nothing will get going. We are 30 games in with 18 left. If nothing has happened yet, I dont think it will to be honest.

The only remedy to this entire situation is to change the system, but its too late for it and unrealistic, so I guess we all just have to deal with it til the offseason. This team aint doing **** in the playoffs, if they even make it.

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03-22-2013, 10:50 PM
  #83
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I was never much of a fan of him, and I'm not saying Torts should be fired at this point, but Lindy Ruff would probably have this team playing more like they should given the current talent they have.

Torts really needs to open the gates up and let the horses run.

Lundqvist has gone back to pressuring himself to madness knowing that unless he keeps the GA 1 or less - they'll probably lose. That's undo stress on a goalie. He'd have much more swagger if knows full well the cannons are firing away at the other end.

I'm sorry but last game's perimeter shot display, I would have stopped most of them.

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:52 PM
  #84
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This teams offense is worse than when I thought it was worse in past seasons.

Absolutely appalling and embarrassing.


The ****ed up oddman rushes and blind hail marys, the grinding along the boards, the dumping on the PP..... just...

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03-22-2013, 10:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
drew what is your problem with slats?
No!!! You can't be serious with a question like that???

The short of it is "he is completing his 13th year as GM this july and what exactly has he accomplished?

That's 12 seasons(not counting the lockout year of 04/05); the team has made the playoffs 6 times, missed 5 times, gotten out of the 1st round 3 times, blown a 3-1 series lead to the Caps in 09, blew a 2-1 series lead to the Devils last year, drafted horrendously when he was running the draft until 2006 or 07, made horrendous signing throughout his tenure, and has yet to get to a SCF let alone win a cup.
In truth, any other organization where the owner actually "gives a ****" about his hockey team would most certainly have fired Sather after the 2004 season.

Should I go on? I can't believe you actually asked that question!

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03-22-2013, 10:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
This teams offense is worse than when I thought it was worse in past seasons.

Absolutely appalling and embarrassing.


The ****ed up oddman rushes and blind hail marys, the grinding along the boards, the dumping on the PP..... just...
Do you think that's the players, or the system?

I'm honestly asking. Because these are professional hockey players, they should know how to handle a simple 3 on 2, but they don't. So in that aspect, to me, it has to be the system.

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03-22-2013, 11:11 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
drew, heres a massive point youre ignoring.


Tortorella is changing the lines even when players are producing (ie: Nash, Hagelin, Stepan).


Its not just about Gaborik and Richards not producing. Its about Nash producing and being taken off that respective line that is working.

THE LINES.... are ENTIRELY on the coaching.

Its a virtual guarantee nothing will get going. We are 30 games in with 18 left. If nothing has happened yet, I dont think it will to be honest.

The only remedy to this entire situation is to change the system, but its too late for it and unrealistic, so I guess we all just have to deal with it til the offseason. This team aint doing **** in the playoffs, if they even make it.
I understand and I agree with you completely. I expect everybody else who posts here feels like my two sons (ages 36 and 29 who share their love for the Rangers and their seats with me in section 419) and that's this; they would be thrilled to see the Rangers crawl in if need be to the 8th spot on the last day of the season and then take our shot.

Me? I would rather they miss the playoffs then suffer a butt whipping by the 1st or 2nd seed team. Why? if only because something more in the way of a shakeup might occur if that happened.

Keep the faith!

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:15 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Do you think that's the players, or the system?

I'm honestly asking. Because these are professional hockey players, they should know how to handle a simple 3 on 2, but they don't. So in that aspect, to me, it has to be the system.

Systemic.

They really dont need to be paying as much as attention to defense as they are. Our blueline and goaltending is top 5 in the league. I think we can afford to be let loose a little bit more given that.

I think this team can play a possession game, especially with Nash and Richards on separate lines. ****, even Gaborik. Hes NOT a puck possession player himself, but hes very nifty in tight space areas, as evidenced in recent games.

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03-22-2013, 11:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
I understand and I agree with you completely. I expect everybody else who posts here feels like my two sons (ages 36 and 29 who share their love for the Rangers and their seats with me in section 419) and that's this; they would be thrilled to see the Rangers crawl in if need be to the 8th spot on the last day of the season and then take our shot.

Me? I would rather they miss the playoffs then suffer a butt whipping by the 1st or 2nd seed team. Why? if only because something more in the way of a shakeup might occur if that happened.

Keep the faith!
thats a tough one.....but I fear that even if we DO MISS the Playoffs, Torts will be back and Sather will probably give him a pass since he did get us to the ECF last year and it's a shortened season

so either way.....the problem will still persist. Tortorella and his sorry excuse of his coaching system + clueless Sulli will be back to infect this team again next season. And THAT......is a SCARY thought

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03-22-2013, 11:32 PM
  #90
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Some Interesting Stats About Our Offense

New Depth Players:

Powe: 19 GP, 0 G, 0 A, 0 P
Halpern: 30 GP, 0 G, 1 A, 1 P
Pyatt: 30 GP, 4 G, 2 A, 6 P
Asham: 12 GP, 1 G, 0 A, 1 P
J.T. Miller: 22 GP, 2 G, 2 A, 4 P
Hamrlik/Mashinter/Haley/Gilroy (combined): 34 GP, 0 G, 0 A, 0 P
Total: 147 GP, 7 G, 5 A, 12 P

Last Year's Depth Players

Dubinsky: 19 GP, 1 G, 8 A, 9 P
Anisimov: 23 GP, 7 G, 2 A, 9 P
Prust: 25 GP, 4 G, 5 A, 9 P
Mitchell: 28 GP, 9 G, 6 A, 15 P
Total: 95 GP, 21 G, 21 A, 42 P

That's some great depth we got this year huh. Not even mentioning Gaborik and Richards complete inability to produce offense night in and night out.

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:36 PM
  #91
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Yep we suck. If we aspire to do anything at all this season then we had best address our goal scoring depth. As for Gabby and Richards, prayer may be helpful???

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03-23-2013, 12:39 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Systemic.

They really dont need to be paying as much as attention to defense as they are. Our blueline and goaltending is top 5 in the league. I think we can afford to be let loose a little bit more given that.

I think this team can play a possession game, especially with Nash and Richards on separate lines. ****, even Gaborik. Hes NOT a puck possession player himself, but hes very nifty in tight space areas, as evidenced in recent games.
This doesn't explain why the system is stopping them from finishing a routine 3 on 2.

A big part of the lack of success is on a lot of the players.

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03-23-2013, 12:58 AM
  #93
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You can argue depth, lineups, JAM, defensive zone transition, neutral zone play, offensive creativity, slumps etc.

It is hard to come to any other conclusion than the one called "Fire Torts & Sully"

We will get Marty to coach and have Talbot backing up.

It is an unfortunate conclusion to say Torts is killing confidence, creativity and our individual's ability to execute but the players are being affected by too many aspects of Torts style to be offensively and creatively unrestrained when they need to be. Furthermore, great team offense involves many secondary scorers and Torts does not foster any of that. ZIP. That's on Torts. Furtherfurthermore, a great offensive is not all to the players credit, it's also the coach's credit because its their job to coach the offense out of the lines/players. Torts is a minus 1 there too.

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03-23-2013, 01:14 AM
  #94
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Strangely, we're in 9th, 3 points out of 6th (with a game in hand), but also 3 points out of 11th (also with game in hand)

This is a very, very important point. Get going now and you can fight for home ice. Sit back and you have to fight for 8th.

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03-23-2013, 01:40 AM
  #95
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Strangely, we're in 9th, 3 points out of 6th (with a game in hand), but also 3 points out of 11th (also with game in hand)

This is a very, very important point. Get going now and you can fight for home ice. Sit back and you have to fight for 8th.

Thats just a testament to league parity.

We're still pretty bad.

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03-23-2013, 02:38 AM
  #96
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Thats just a testament to league parity.

We're still pretty bad.
But it gives you the clue that we're doing similar to the majority of the conference. The only teams that are uncatchable are Boston (unsurprisingly, they're a well established team with a terrific line up and very little new blood), Pitt (**** Crosby. Seriously) and Montreal (I got nothing for this one.)

Credit to Ottawa. I don't know how they're doing it. Hell, Philly and Tampa are 13th and 14th, and THEY'RE only 5 points back.

We're under performing HUGELY, but we're playing very similarly to the vast majority of the conference.

Part of me wants to just say this season is an aberration.

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03-23-2013, 11:40 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
You can argue depth, lineups, JAM, defensive zone transition, neutral zone play, offensive creativity, slumps etc.

It is hard to come to any other conclusion than the one called "Fire Torts & Sully"

We will get Marty to coach and have Talbot backing up.

It is an unfortunate conclusion to say Torts is killing confidence, creativity and our individual's ability to execute but the players are being affected by too many aspects of Torts style to be offensively and creatively unrestrained when they need to be. Furthermore, great team offense involves many secondary scorers and Torts does not foster any of that. ZIP. That's on Torts. Furtherfurthermore, a great offensive is not all to the players credit, it's also the coach's credit because its their job to coach the offense out of the lines/players. Torts is a minus 1 there too.
They played the same exact style last year and the same exact players (Gaborik and Richards) were not nearly this bad. The coaching hasn't changed since then. That's a problem because it should change, but that also invalidates this "everyone sucking is all on the coaches" argument.

These struggles aren't "on Torts" - they're on him, they're on most of the players and they're on the management. This shallow, one-dimensional "blame torts" meme is absurdly stale.

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03-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #98
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Look I'm not saying the Rangers offense would just explode w an offensive minded coach. What I AM saying is you get rid of the coach before you trade your best players for stuggling. That's how its always been. And THEN if tget continue to struggle u move them. I'm not certain, but did anyone think the effort may not be there because they don't want to do this system anymore?

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03-23-2013, 08:45 PM
  #99
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I think the easiest way to sum up the problems with the "Tort's system" is how backwards it is in today's NHL.
  • The top team's have coaching staffs that focus on offensive creativity and chemistry; while the GM and personnel staff focus on keeping a roster of players that have high compete levels and try to win every battle.
  • The NYR have a coaching staff that tries to drill nothing but "jam", grinding, and compete levels; while hoping the GM and personnel staff add players that can score goals all on their own.

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03-23-2013, 09:41 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
You can argue depth, lineups, JAM, defensive zone transition, neutral zone play, offensive creativity, slumps etc.

It is hard to come to any other conclusion than the one called "Fire Torts & Sully"

We will get Marty to coach and have Talbot backing up.

It is an unfortunate conclusion to say Torts is killing confidence, creativity and our individual's ability to execute but the players are being affected by too many aspects of Torts style to be offensively and creatively unrestrained when they need to be. Furthermore, great team offense involves many secondary scorers and Torts does not foster any of that. ZIP. That's on Torts. Furtherfurthermore, a great offensive is not all to the players credit, it's also the coach's credit because its their job to coach the offense out of the lines/players. Torts is a minus 1 there too.
Torts isn't the issue, our depth sucks!! and if this team has Gabs and Richards scoring we wouldnt be even discussing our depth concern.. since our big 2 arent playing well and contributing the way they should it exposes the rest of our team bc they arent bringing **** to the table..

main issue Gabs and Richards not scoring= Exposing our bottom 6 for not doing anything
plain and simple.. the same guys night in and night out have been competing and doing what they should.. ala nash, callahan, hags, step so they're elevating their games..thats players stepping up.. its up to the rest of the team to step up..

but thats why we need guys with high compete levels and those guys usually are physical and hustle.. that = puck possession and turns into chances.. its important to have guys like prust and dubi.. guys willing to do whatever to help the team.. i just dont see that with powe, halpern (gone now), asham, pyatt.. and we cant count on rookies to contribute enough to carry the team.. i think slats overestimated kreider stepping up this year and replacing dubi and that hasnt worked.. it left us vulnerable. best thing to do is trade deadline and off season start poaching players to rebuild bottom 6..

and 3rd line d sucks.. and exposes us badly..


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