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Ales Hemsky at the Deadline

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:11 PM
  #176
Eskimo44
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
theres no reason you cant keep both....

id have no issue with a Brian Boyle or Maxim Lapierre deal for Hemsky, at least then the upside for the other team equals the risk
but most oiler fans seem to want much more than that....they expect more than that
You should feel shame.

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03-22-2013, 11:17 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
You should feel shame.
the level of risk has to equal the reward

how else do you balance it? including draft picks based on games missed?

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03-22-2013, 11:30 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
thats where we disagree then because the risk factor and salary impact lowers his value considerably......
The value give doesn't motivate the Oilers to trade him. Better to let him walk as UFA in a year than take the junk offered by you.

You can claim his value risk all you want but in the end you have to motivate the team to trade him. If he's dragging people down.. sure. If his salary is causing cap problems.. sure.

But none of that is true.. so there's really no motivation to trade Hemsky for bits and pieces. Probably why he hasn't been traded.

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03-22-2013, 11:43 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
Sdig i respect your knowledge, but Gms gearing up for a playoff run always consider the health history of their acquisitions, all things being equal I feel theyd take a lesser player that they think is more certain to be healthy, than a high skilled health risk
I've asked you already, and you've conveniently dodged my question. How long until Hemsky has played out the injury concerns? He started last year injured, but played a bulk of the season, plus the World Championships, played overseas and has been healthy this season as well. That's over 100 games played since his last injury. It seems to me that Hemsky's injury problems are behind him, and there is significant evidence to support that. Lots of players go through significant injuries and never have the same injuries again. There is no reason to think Hemsky will have the same injuries ever again.

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03-22-2013, 11:49 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Lacaar View Post
The value give doesn't motivate the Oilers to trade him. Better to let him walk as UFA in a year than take the junk offered by you.

You can claim his value risk all you want but in the end you have to motivate the team to trade him. If he's dragging people down.. sure. If his salary is causing cap problems.. sure.

But none of that is true.. so there's really no motivation to trade Hemsky for bits and pieces. Probably why he hasn't been traded.
by the same token but you have to motivate the team to trade for him. The risk level is high enough that if the motivation level doesnt overcome the inherent risks, nobody will offer more than bits and pieces. Thats probably why he hasn't been traded.

as soon as Souray was out from under his contract he was signed, same with Redden. When the risks outstrip the potential reward teams back off. but once the risks are lessened enough even the biggest pariah can get an opportunity

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03-22-2013, 11:54 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
by the same token but you have to motivate the team to trade for him. The risk level is high enough that if the motivation level doesnt overcome the inherent risks, nobody will offer more than bits and pieces. Thats probably why he hasn't been traded.

as soon as Souray was out from under his contract he was signed, same with Redden. When the risks outstrip the potential reward teams back off. but once the risks are lessened enough even the biggest pariah can get an opportunity
Hemsky is in a very different situation than either Souray or Redden. Redden was paid as a number one d-man, performing as a bottom pair d-man, on a team with cap issues. Souray had a big contract, had multiple injury issues and had not played against NHL competition to prove they were behind him, and he played like garbage when he was in the minors. Hemsky is paid like a top 6 forward, and is playing like a second line forward. It comes down to teams meeting Edmonton's price, I'm sure a number of teams would want him. Nobody wanted Redden or Souray for free.

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03-22-2013, 11:59 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I've asked you already, and you've conveniently dodged my question. How long until Hemsky has played out the injury concerns? He started last year injured, but played a bulk of the season, plus the World Championships, played overseas and has been healthy this season as well. That's over 100 games played since his last injury. It seems to me that Hemsky's injury problems are behind him, and there is significant evidence to support that. Lots of players go through significant injuries and never have the same injuries again. There is no reason to think Hemsky will have the same injuries ever again.
in my opinion, it depends on the GM, how safe he feels in his job and how risk adverse he is, for some, he will never overcome the stigma. A GM can easily lose his job by trading for a player with an Injury history. Trading for a high profile player with an injury history can be career suicide

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03-23-2013, 12:08 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Nobody wanted Redden or Souray for free.
thats 100% false. once they were free of the risk of expensive contracts they were snatched right up

if you bought out Hemsky and he was free, he'd be snatched up too. but Edmonton wants assets in return and Hemsky comes with a hefty contract.....

the situations are closer than you think

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03-23-2013, 01:02 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
You use Joe Nieuendyk making a horrible trade (and pretty much universally seen as one) as evidence in a legitimate "value of" thread? Nice try.
Not sure what player you've been watching. Erik Cole has been great for Dallas. Perfect fit for us and exactly what we wanted.

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03-23-2013, 01:04 AM
  #185
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Skilled player. Injury prone. 1 more year at 5 mil

I say a first and a mid level prospect or a 2nd/3rd and a top prospect

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03-23-2013, 01:10 AM
  #186
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Oy these injury prone claims are getting to be very annoying.

I think we're at the point of "keep your junk, we're happy keeping Hemsky".

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03-23-2013, 01:10 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by WildisLaw View Post
And for the millionth deadline in a row, Hemsky goes nowhere. Holy broken record thread
Yep, but only because the Oilers expect far too much for an injury prone winger. Last year I believe Tambo thought a high tier prospect, a first and a second was far value. Not surprisingly, Hemsky was still an Oiler afterward and odds are, he will be again.

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03-23-2013, 01:40 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
thats 100% false. once they were free of the risk of expensive contracts they were snatched right up

if you bought out Hemsky and he was free, he'd be snatched up too. but Edmonton wants assets in return and Hemsky comes with a hefty contract.....

the situations are closer than you think
For free, as in the went through waivers and weren't claimed. If I remember correctly, Souray even went through re-entry waivers. Not free as in no contract. The situations are entirely different.

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03-23-2013, 01:41 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Yep, but only because the Oilers expect far too much for an injury prone winger. Last year I believe Tambo thought a high tier prospect, a first and a second was far value. Not surprisingly, Hemsky was still an Oiler afterward and odds are, he will be again.
Nobody knows what the Oilers are looking for. I'd like a link that shows otherwise, Oiler management plays their cards close to their chest in that regard.

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03-23-2013, 01:43 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by oconnor9sean View Post
Not sure what player you've been watching. Erik Cole has been great for Dallas. Perfect fit for us and exactly what we wanted.
So was Ryder, and Cole was crap this year in Montreal.

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03-23-2013, 01:44 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
in my opinion, it depends on the GM, how safe he feels in his job and how risk adverse he is, for some, he will never overcome the stigma. A GM can easily lose his job by trading for a player with an Injury history. Trading for a high profile player with an injury history can be career suicide
So, once again, how long does a player coming off an injury have to play injury free before he shakes the "injury prone" label? GM's are pretty in tune with when an injury is behind a player.

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03-23-2013, 03:47 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hemsky to Pittsburgh for Despres + 2 1sts.
Are you kidding?

I don't think Hemsky is going to bring back what some people hope.

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03-23-2013, 04:03 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I don't agree. There are teams out there who need help on offense and have a glut of gritty role players. Really, it depends on if Oilers management decides to shop him for those types of players, or if they are stuck on getting a package for a top defenseman. I think they have been hoping to package him up for a top d-man so far. And they have no issues keeping him either, he is a good piece of bait, but its by no means essential to move him. Getting a number 4 d-man or 3rd line gritty winger, a big fourth liner who can play every night and a prospect actually isn't that huge of a price, unless we're talking about top end prospects.
Well lets look at it this way, I assume you want a good 2nd pair defenseman. Hemsky I think we can agree, when healthy is a good 2nd line winger. So what is more valuable? I would say the defenseman. Then you adding to that a big/gritty role player, which is the most valuable of role player, and a good prospect.

I can't really see Hemsky dragging that in. Especially when you consider the contract (with the cap coming down) and the fact that perhaps teams may be worried about his health.

This year especially the market value for players hasn't proven that valuable, atleast in terms of draft picks, Look at the deals that have already been made, Ponikarovsky, Gagne, Loktionov, Ellerby, D'Agostini, and Brennan. Have all gone for 4th or 5th round picks.

Not really what you would expect. With that being said, I think something fair for Hemsky (if teams are convinced injures are no longer a problem) Is probably something like 2nd + Gritty Role player or whatever. Or maybe a 1st and a decent prospect. But at this point, with the way the market has been established, and the other factors that come into consideration with this particular player. A return like 1st+Top Prospect+Gritty Roster/Role/Depth player isn't realistic.

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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Salary, sure. Risk? What risk? Injuries are behind him completely. How long does he have to play before he proves that?
I don't think injuries are behind any player. Any player can get injured at anytime. Unfortunately though, when players have had multiple injuries in a short period of time, that tag never really leaves the player.

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03-23-2013, 04:07 AM
  #194
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I would have to disagree, Klefbom, Musil, and Marincin are all better. Musil brings the big stay at home D the Oilers need, with a mean streak. From the watching Musil ever since he went to the Oil Kings, I don't think you have to worry about his skating. Marincin play has been steady on a bad OKC team ever since the NHL restarted, he has more of a offensive potential then Maata, I do agree he is still raw.

You might throw in Gernat, who hasn't missed a step since he's come back to the OilKings .

Why get another LHS D prospect, when your system is full, doesn't make any sense.
No they aren't.

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03-23-2013, 04:14 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hemsky to Pittsburgh for Despres + 2 1sts.
Oh my... That's more than Iginla would fetch.

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03-23-2013, 04:40 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Every day we see a new trade proposal including the Edmonton Oilers. And we all know what's going to happen. At some point a Oiler fan suggests Hemsky for (enter random NHL player here) and all hell breaks loose. People start bashing Hemsky and Oilers fans run for his defense. Every ****ing time. But we rarely see a reasonable discussion about Hemsky's true value. Which is kinda bizarre since he's a legitimate top6 forward in his prime.

So, what is your team willing to give for Hemsky at the deadline? Edmonton needs: #1 goalie, young #3C, a gritty LW with scoring potential, young bottom 6 forwards with character and grit, solid bottom pair defenseman & 1st round picks.

Hemsky's stats & contract situation: http://www.capgeek.com/player/12

HMMMM

Gunnar, Kuelmin,2nd?

JVR Bozak Kessel

Lupul Kadri Hemsky

Frattin Grabo Macarthur

Komarov McClement Orr

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03-23-2013, 07:20 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
that my point.... Hemsky is worth maybe 20-30 cents on the dollar because no one, edmonton fans included have any real reason to believe he can stay healthy. that 5M a year salary isnt chicken feed either
He was injured for almost 2 years and now been healthy for 130 plus games , almost 2 years . Only reason Oiler fans will consider moving him is because of age and we are load on the wing . The young kids are the future . By the time we are ready to challenge for a cup Hemsky will be getting up there. Maybe Crosby is only worth 20-30 cents on a dollar to he was injury for a while to . I was in a bad accident and i was told i would never work again . 3 years later i was working on the oil rigs . It the will to push threw , but i guess you would have told me i am done . Hemsky has the will that is why he goes to the dirty areas and takes a hit to make a play . He has been hit hard many times since he came back and always is right back up .


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 03-23-2013 at 07:26 AM. Reason: mocking
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Old
03-23-2013, 07:28 AM
  #198
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Are you kidding?

I don't think Hemsky is going to bring back what some people hope.
Sealbound doesn't think Hemsky is worth that much at all. If he does, God help him. I think he is putting it out there because at some point, ludicrous return ideas would start flowing. Injury prone guy with lots of skill; terrible defensively and one more year for 5 million in a year the cap is going down. He isn't worth a first and a top prospect. Maybe a late first and that is it. Asking someone to take that cap hit for 2013-14 for the player he is shouldn't fetch much.

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03-23-2013, 09:50 AM
  #199
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I don't think injuries are behind any player. Any player can get injured at anytime. Unfortunately though, when players have had multiple injuries in a short period of time, that tag never really leaves the player.
Hemsky had multiple injuries prior to his surgeries. All accounts have said that his shoulders are stronger than ever.

Is Selanne considered injury prone due to his tons of knee injuries from earlier in his career? No, because he had surgery and the problem was fixed. ANY player can get hurt at any time, the fact is though, that without Hemsky's shoulder injuries in the equation, Hemsky has played the average number of games per season over his career. And his shoulders are better than ever. Contract concerns are one thing, but this b.s. about being "injury prone" is totally blown out of proportion on HF. Or does Crosby have no value because of concussion issues, despite being far and away the best player on the planetÉ

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03-23-2013, 09:56 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Needles View Post
Every day we see a new trade proposal including the Edmonton Oilers. And we all know what's going to happen. At some point a Oiler fan suggests Hemsky for (enter random NHL player here) and all hell breaks loose. People start bashing Hemsky and Oilers fans run for his defense. Every ****ing time. But we rarely see a reasonable discussion about Hemsky's true value. Which is kinda bizarre since he's a legitimate top6 forward in his prime.

So, what is your team willing to give for Hemsky at the deadline? Edmonton needs: #1 goalie, young #3C, a gritty LW with scoring potential, young bottom 6 forwards with character and grit, solid bottom pair defenseman & 1st round picks.

Hemsky's stats & contract situation: http://www.capgeek.com/player/12
See the bolded because all the rest of your needs won't be filled by moving Hemsky unless a big + is added.

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