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The Process of Trading Jarome Iginla Has Begun - Part 2

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Old
03-23-2013, 04:33 AM
  #451
dsedin
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Top 4 D prospect = Olli Maatta
Roster Player = Tyler Kennedy
Draft Pick = Draft Pick
seems fair enough, i can see something like this happening, 1st or 2nd depending on the market

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03-23-2013, 08:18 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Top 4 D prospect = Olli Maatta
Roster Player = Tyler Kennedy
Draft Pick = Draft Pick
R**** is not a reliable source.

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03-23-2013, 08:25 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Since1989 View Post
I'd rather target an area of need, as Calgary is in no need of goaltending prospects.

Gillies was named Hockey East's Rookie of the Year.
Brossoit and Ramo both playing great in their respective leagues
Not to mention Ortio improving while getting tons of starts in the SM-liiga

Not saying Subban isn't a great prospect, cause he's playing great in Belleville but we simply don't have a need for him. If Iginla is traded, I suspect Feaster will target a return that will drastically improve our cupboard in an are we're lacking - not just kind-of-sort-of improve an area we're not.
Apparantly Feaster asked for Subban in a deal for Iginla at least according to this article.

http://www.csnne.com/blog/bruins-tal...ard-ever-trade

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03-23-2013, 08:34 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
R**** is not a reliable source.
lol his name is filtered as a bad word? seems appropraite

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03-23-2013, 08:44 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by SidsBackhand View Post
They were great, yes. He CAN work with a playmaker. But AT HIS BEST? Not in a long shot.

So if Shero, why break up point production? (that is better than with Hossa) To go after another playmaker? If it's not broke, don't fix it. It's not like it would be an obvious upgrade.
Come on, dude. Seriously. Production is better now because Crosby's game has evolved and has reached another level. Not as spectacular, not as flashy, but more productive. You're saying it wouldn't be as/more productive today if we had Hossa instead of Kunitz/Dupuis?

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03-23-2013, 09:22 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by SidsBackhand View Post
I watched and I still think Crosby works just as well with Kunitz. Being that the premise was: that was when Crosby was "at his best", then using the argument that they didn't have time to "build chemistry" is basically you admitting that you're wrong.
No, you moved the goal posts because your argument is so out there it's comical.

You decided to use stats and point production, when there is no way to make a realistic comparison with Hossa, given their short time together.

Anyone with a set of eyeballs and an ounce of understanding about the game, could see Hossa and Crosby played on another level together. They worked the puck together beautifully and Hossa actually was setting up Crosby on a game by game basis, which is something you rarely see with Kunitz and Dupuis.

Quote:
They were great, yes. He CAN work with a playmaker. But AT HIS BEST? Not in a long shot.
Once again your argument is ridiculous. When has Crosby played consistently with a playmaker in his career? How can you say he isn't at his best when the most he ever played with a creative player was all of three months?

Your claim that the best player in the world can't work with creative players is not only flat out asinine, it's false because Hossa WAS a creative player. If Crosby had several years to build on his chemistry with Hossa like he has done with Kunitz, I'm 100% sure they would be a much harder duo to stop than Crosby/Kunitz.

Quote:
So if Shero, why break up point production? (that is better than with Hossa) To go after another playmaker? If it's not broke, don't fix it. It's not like it would be an obvious upgrade.
Iggy is a clear upgrade over Dupuis. Anyone who suggests otherwise shouldn't be taken seriously.

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03-23-2013, 10:26 AM
  #457
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I think the world of Iginla and would take him on my team any day but at this stage he's worth a tier 2 prospect, mid 2nd round pick in a decent draft, and a 25-28 year old 2nd/3rd line forward or #4 d-man. Max.

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03-23-2013, 10:30 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
lol his name is filtered as a bad word? seems appropraite
That was a choice on my part. I'm taking a personal stand agaisnt unreliable 'reporters.'

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03-23-2013, 10:33 AM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
I think the world of Iginla and would take him on my team any day but at this stage he's worth a tier 2 prospect, mid 2nd round pick in a decent draft, and a 25-28 year old 2nd/3rd line forward or #4 d-man. Max.
Based on?

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03-23-2013, 10:39 AM
  #460
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Based on?
Based on the fact he's 35, soon to be 36, has clearly lost a step, declining production (on pace for a prorated 22 goal season), and hasn't been a + player since 2007/08 or 5 years ago. Again, I think the world of him but I wouldn't give up the farm.

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03-23-2013, 10:48 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Come on, dude. Seriously. Production is better now because Crosby's game has evolved and has reached another level. Not as spectacular, not as flashy, but more productive. You're saying it wouldn't be as/more productive today if we had Hossa instead of Kunitz/Dupuis?
I'm saying it wouldn't matter because Sid is Sid. And he's talking about Stempniak, using Hossa in the past to justify it. Those two players aren't even in the same league talent-wise.

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03-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
No, you moved the goal posts because your argument is so out there it's comical.

You decided to use stats and point production, when there is no way to make a realistic comparison with Hossa, given their short time together.

Anyone with a set of eyeballs and an ounce of understanding about the game, could see Hossa and Crosby played on another level together. They worked the puck together beautifully and Hossa actually was setting up Crosby on a game by game basis, which is something you rarely see with Kunitz and Dupuis.



Once again your argument is ridiculous. When has Crosby played consistently with a playmaker in his career? How can you say he isn't at his best when the most he ever played with a creative player was all of three months?

Your claim that the best player in the world can't work with creative players is not only flat out asinine, it's false because Hossa WAS a creative player. If Crosby had several years to build on his chemistry with Hossa like he has done with Kunitz, I'm 100% sure they would be a much harder duo to stop than Crosby/Kunitz.



Iggy is a clear upgrade over Dupuis. Anyone who suggests otherwise shouldn't be taken seriously.


He SET UP CROSBY? Crosby only had 6 goals in the playoffs to Hossa's 12. Hossa had 16 assists to Crosby's 21. So, like I said, you're wrong again. Get your facts straight before blindly throwing out assumptions.

And you're talking about Stempniak who isn't even in the same league as Hossa talent wise.


Iggy would be an upgrade, yes. But not for an absurd price on a rental. Factor that in and it's probably not a good deal at all.

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03-23-2013, 11:35 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Tim McCracken View Post
Based on the fact he's 35, soon to be 36, has clearly lost a step, declining production (on pace for a prorated 22 goal season), and hasn't been a + player since 2007/08 or 5 years ago. Again, I think the world of him but I wouldn't give up the farm.
This.

Everyone gets the sentiment surrounding Iginla in Calgary. There is an absolute here though and that is a player who is entering a time in his career where traditionally players start to slow down considerably. Yes, there are intangibles, but those same intangibles can be found elsewhere for a lesser price (Morrow).

Let's think about the current circumstances a year from now... Would anyone really give up a top prospect, a roster player and a first for a 37 year old?

Whatever the case, Calgary will never get more for Jarome Iginla than they will right now. They should be in a complete fire sale mode and begin posturing themselves to land a top the draft order in the McDavid draft.

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03-23-2013, 11:37 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by SidsBackhand View Post
He SET UP CROSBY? Crosby only had 6 goals in the playoffs to Hossa's 12. Hossa had 16 assists to Crosby's 21. So, like I said, you're wrong again. Get your facts straight before blindly throwing out assumptions.
Another silly argument. Setting a guy up doesn't always result in goals. I know it sounds totally whacked, but every nice pass doesn't result in a goal. Even Gretzky had one or two passes that weren't finished off.

Quote:
And you're talking about Stempniak who isn't even in the same league as Hossa talent wise.
Hossa was the only creative player Crosby ever played with. You were adamant Crosby didn't play well with creative players, even though reality suggested otherwise.

Stempniak plays just as hard as Dupuis, but he can create his own offense and would make Crosby much harder to defend. Suggesting Stempniak isn't a good fit because he is creative is once again an asinine argument.

Quote:
Iggy would be an upgrade, yes. But not for an absurd price on a rental. Factor that in and it's probably not a good deal at all.
We have no clue what the price is, only fan speculation.

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03-23-2013, 11:56 AM
  #465
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I think Stempniak is a more ideal acquisition for the Penguins than Jarome Iginla. Signed to an extra year at a cap hit of $2.5M, cheaper player who can help the team.

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03-23-2013, 12:01 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I think Stempniak is a more ideal acquisition for the Penguins than Jarome Iginla. Signed to an extra year at a cap hit of $2.5M, cheaper player who can help the team.
That sounds good if he can be had for a 2nd or so. He's at least an upgrade over Kennedy on the 3rd line and provides another option for the top 2 lines if someone starts struggling up there.

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03-23-2013, 12:09 PM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
I think Stempniak is a more ideal acquisition for the Penguins than Jarome Iginla. Signed to an extra year at a cap hit of $2.5M, cheaper player who can help the team.

What does he bring that Kunitz and Dupuis currently aren't in terms of results. Go big or go home in my opinion. Unless you are going to get a guy that will significantly top their production, why bother? This years deadline is going to be absurd, everyone and there mother is still in it, save for one or two teams.

No point in replacing 20 goal guys with 20 goal guys.

Prices are going to be high.

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03-23-2013, 12:27 PM
  #468
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It's a shame. The flames have a lot of guys that would be perfect as the supporting cast on a cup winner. Imagine if Stempniak, Glencross, Jackman, Cammalleri, and Giordano were surrounding a Franchise centerman, a star winger, and star d-man. It would be a good squad.

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03-23-2013, 01:12 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Apparantly Feaster asked for Subban in a deal for Iginla at least according to this article.

http://www.csnne.com/blog/bruins-tal...ard-ever-trade
Should probably specify Malcolm Subban. Just saying "Subban" makes me think an article out of Boston mentioned that Montreal also kicked the tires on Iggy and Feaster wanted PK.

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03-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #470
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It's a shame. The flames have a lot of guys that would be perfect as the supporting cast on a cup winner. Imagine if Stempniak, Glencross, Jackman, Cammalleri, and Giordano were surrounding a Franchise centerman, a star winger, and star d-man. It would be a good squad.
In the case of Cammalleri, he chose his own destiny. A contender's not going to allocate the amount of cap space his price tag comes with to a player like him.

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03-23-2013, 01:52 PM
  #471
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I really like Roach actually. But there would need to be another asset in there. Either a 1st, Toffoli or Dwight King. Keep your 2nd though.
Yeah, I know. That's why I threw it out there.

Roach and Ellerby/Drewiske for Iggy.

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03-23-2013, 02:52 PM
  #472
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Should probably specify Malcolm Subban. Just saying "Subban" makes me think an article out of Boston mentioned that Montreal also kicked the tires on Iggy and Feaster wanted PK.
Sorry, I was responding to someone who was talking about malcolm, I'm not 100% sure, but I thought it was in their post which I quoted.

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03-23-2013, 03:27 PM
  #473
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Based on the fact he's 35, soon to be 36, has clearly lost a step, declining production (on pace for a prorated 22 goal season), and hasn't been a + player since 2007/08 or 5 years ago. Again, I think the world of him but I wouldn't give up the farm.
Iginla always seems to have lost a step. Last year it didn't look like he would come close to 30 goals until he turned it on in the 2nd half.

FACT: In 2005-06, after getting only 67 points, HFBoards was claiming that he lost a step and his best years were behind him.

He's always alternated between 60+ and 80+ point seasons, and he always turns on his goal scoring after 30 games.

So seeing as there's a pattern there, you cannot clearly say that he's 'clearly lost a step'. It's like that thread yesterday saying he's "checked out" when in reality he was playing like 2006 Iginla last night.

He's still got a ton of juice left, so if he isn't getting a top prospect than Calgary should hold on to him. Pittsburgh would still have an upgrade with Cammy, Stemps, or even Tanguay apparently, if Crosby would play well with a playmaker (Tangs also has one of the most accurate wristers in the league).

There's a handful of guys that Calgary can get good assets for, with our own pick being high, to make it a quick rebuild that Jarome can stick around for. IMO we have enough assets to move that we shouldn't be that desperate to trade him.

Quote:
What does he bring that Kunitz and Dupuis currently aren't in terms of results. Go big or go home in my opinion. Unless you are going to get a guy that will significantly top their production, why bother? This years deadline is going to be absurd, everyone and there mother is still in it, save for one or two teams.
Stempniak is still relatively young, and only 2 seasons removed from a season where he scored 28 goals, including 14 goals in 18 games when he got traded to Phoenix. Being able to score 14 goals in 18 games is something he brings to the table that Dupuis does not. He's also personally having his best season, on pace for 65 points from the 3rd line. I'm pretty sure Dupuis has never done that either.


Last edited by GetThePuckOut: 03-23-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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03-23-2013, 03:39 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by TheGrifter View Post
This.

Everyone gets the sentiment surrounding Iginla in Calgary. There is an absolute here though and that is a player who is entering a time in his career where traditionally players start to slow down considerably. Yes, there are intangibles, but those same intangibles can be found elsewhere for a lesser price (Morrow).

Let's think about the current circumstances a year from now... Would anyone really give up a top prospect, a roster player and a first for a 37 year old?

Whatever the case, Calgary will never get more for Jarome Iginla than they will right now. They should be in a complete fire sale mode and begin posturing themselves to land a top the draft order in the McDavid draft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Iginla always seems to have lost a step. Last year it didn't look like he would come close to 30 goals until he turned it on in the 2nd half.

FACT: In 2005-06, after getting only 67 points, HFBoards was claiming that he lost a step and his best years were behind him.

He's always alternated between 60+ and 80+ point seasons, and he always turns on his goal scoring after 30 games.

So seeing as there's a pattern there, you cannot clearly say that he's 'clearly lost a step'. It's like that thread yesterday saying he's "checked out" when in reality he was playing like 2006 Iginla last night.

He's still got a ton of juice left, so if he isn't getting a top prospect than Calgary should hold on to him. Pittsburgh would still have an upgrade with Cammy, Stemps, or even Tanguay apparently, if Crosby would play well with a playmaker (Tangs also has one of the most accurate wristers in the league).

There's a handful of guys that Calgary can get good assets for, with our own pick being high, to make it a quick rebuild that Jarome can stick around for. IMO we have enough assets to move that we shouldn't be that desperate to trade him.
The problem is, we have clearly seen in the past that it's simply not the Flames' style to trade roster players for strictly futures, especially not multiple times at one trade deadline. I realize EVERYTHING POINTS to it happening this year, but I will believe it when I see it. The organization has always been pretty adamant about the full-on rebuild NOT being their philosophy.

So yeah, I could definitely see Iginla being a part of their 'retooling'. What I can't see is them selling all the vets who have significant trade value for only futures, and the whole 'setting up for the McDavid' draft seems as far from their minds as anything.

I think the most interesting aspect of the Iginla rumors and situation is what it means for the Flames moving forward. Will this signal a new way of thinking for this franchise? Or will this be perhaps the exception to everything they stand for? Deal Iginla but keep everybody else and look to add more pieces?

I'm fascinated to see how this ends up. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on Iginla staying in Calgary, followed by a trade to LA, then a trade to Vancouver and lastly a trade somewhere else.

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03-23-2013, 04:01 PM
  #475
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was liseaning to the radio today and they beieve iginla has already given his list of teams that he would like to play for. i dont think anyone will find out the actual teams he has listed but we do know for a fact now that the flames are quietly shopping for him.

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