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Ales Hemsky at the Deadline

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Old
03-23-2013, 11:00 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
Biggs and 2nd or macarthur and either Biggs or 2nd
The Leafs don't need another top 6 winger, we have 6 already.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 03-23-2013 at 11:08 AM. Reason: Not needed
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03-23-2013, 11:05 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Its kinda funny how posters keep saying he is made of glass when he has played 573 games in this league (And this includes a lost season and lockout)and will finish his career with over 1000 gp he is only 29
That's a bold statement.

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03-23-2013, 11:14 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Miller,stafford,regher for dubnyk,hemsky,smid
As a Leafs fan, I'd love this trade. Gets Miller out of the North East and doesn't bring back anything overly threatening.

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03-23-2013, 11:17 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
The Glass Man is the single most over rated player on this board. That he makes 5M on top of it is one of the mysteries of the modern world.
He's actually underrated on this board

His offense speaks for itself. People are too obsessed with 1st line players and don't realize that 2nd line guys have value

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03-23-2013, 12:18 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
He's actually underrated on this board

His offense speaks for itself. People are too obsessed with 1st line players and don't realize that 2nd line guys have value
Ales Hemsky isn't a 2nd line player. You play him on a good team and with PP time and he's at or near a ppg. He has years and years of results that indicate he's easily a 1st liner. He's never gotten the kind of minutes that the Sedins, Stamkos, Malkins get due to team dynamics he gets the Datsuyk type minutes and like Datsuyk his production suffers. Note: I am not saying Hemsky is as good as any of these guys i am only pointing out the difference in usage that leads to some disparity in points.

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03-23-2013, 12:21 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
by the same token but you have to motivate the team to trade for him. The risk level is high enough that if the motivation level doesnt overcome the inherent risks, nobody will offer more than bits and pieces. Thats probably why he hasn't been traded.

as soon as Souray was out from under his contract he was signed, same with Redden. When the risks outstrip the potential reward teams back off. but once the risks are lessened enough even the biggest pariah can get an opportunity
More shame. Why the **** would you compare Hemsky to two guys who were waived.

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03-23-2013, 12:23 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
So, once again, how long does a player coming off an injury have to play injury free before he shakes the "injury prone" label? GM's are pretty in tune with when an injury is behind a player.
the fact that no GM so far has been willing to meet Tambellini's asking price, Id say the answer is not yet.

considering that in his entire career Hemsky has managed to play 80 games but once, Id venture to say that most GM's see him as fragile, So the question should be has Hemsky ever really been injury free?

I cant name a single 1st line star player of 10+ years, other than he who I can say that about

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03-23-2013, 12:26 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Ales Hemsky isn't a 2nd line player. You play him on a good team and with PP time and he's at or near a ppg. He has years and years of results that indicate he's easily a 1st liner. He's never gotten the kind of minutes that the Sedins, Stamkos, Malkins get due to team dynamics he gets the Datsuyk type minutes and like Datsuyk his production suffers. Note: I am not saying Hemsky is as good as any of these guys i am only pointing out the difference in usage that leads to some disparity in points.
Those guys can all create their own space on the ice. Even the Sedins. Hemsky just isnt anywhere near those guys even if he received 30 minutes a night.

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03-23-2013, 12:33 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
the fact that no GM so far has been willing to meet Tambellini's asking price, Id say the answer is not yet.

considering that in his entire career Hemsky has managed to play 80 games but once, Id venture to say that most GM's see him as fragile, So the question should be has Hemsky ever really been injury free?

I cant name a single 1st line star player of 10+ years, other than he who I can say that about
League average for games played is around 70 games. Players who carry the puck a lot and take abuse will always miss a few games, like Hemsky has. Looking over his supposed injury history, he has missed significant time with injuries over his shoulders, and that is all. Aside from that, he has played the league average. But thanks for coming out.

You also seem to be under the impression that Tambellini is desperate to dump Hemsky. He was re-signed for two years because we needed him this season. If we get the pieces we need, he is available. But he's no dump.

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03-23-2013, 12:42 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
More shame. Why the **** would you compare Hemsky to two guys who were waived.
because that they were waived wasnt the point, the point was that their risks and costs were higher than their value....which may be the case with Hemsky

what is shameful is that Oiler fans, who apparently value Hemsky very highly, keep offering him around in trade..... if he's so valuable to you all why not say he's an Oiler for life and not available?

The majority of opposing fans have been very clear that they dont think his associated risks are worth the price that Oiler fans place on him

it seems that most Oiler fans have a habit of offering players that no one wants (relative to the asking price) while getting insulted when teams instead counter with one of Hall, RNH, Eberle, or Yakupov. Its really rather pathetic.

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03-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
League average for games played is around 70 games. Players who carry the puck a lot and take abuse will always miss a few games, like Hemsky has. Looking over his supposed injury history, he has missed significant time with injuries over his shoulders, and that is all. Aside from that, he has played the league average. But thanks for coming out.

You also seem to be under the impression that Tambellini is desperate to dump Hemsky. He was re-signed for two years because we needed him this season. If we get the pieces we need, he is available. But he's no dump.
nice obfuscation,

league average for first line players is not to play a full season once in a career

no matter how you try and dress up a pig, its still a pig

Hemsky is a fine player when he plays but history says he is far more likely to miss several games a season than he is to play a full season

you remember Paul Coffey, dont you? he carried the puck up ice waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than Hemsky ever has. he played 80 games a season 7 times......

so your explanation doesnt hold water

and I never said Tambellini is desperate to dump Hemsky, I said oiler fans seem to be......

thank YOU for coming out


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03-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #212
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Surely the injury risk issue is easily settled. Set the deal up as though there were no injury issues, and then have Edmonton include a conditional 1st if Hemsky misses more than, say, 20-30 games in the season. If his injuries are truly behind him, as Edmonton fans insist, there should be nothing to fear.

...and yet I've made that proposal before and gotten incredibly, overwhelmingly hostile reactions from Oil fans. Which suggests that maybe, just maybe, said Oil fans don't really believe he's fully healed either.

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03-23-2013, 12:55 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post

what is shameful is that Oiler fans, who apparently value Hemsky very highly, keep offering him around in trade..... if he's so valuable to you all why not say he's an Oiler for life and not available?

it's the same thing the oilers themselves have said: you can have Hemsky at the right price... but because he's a valuable member of the oilers they're not just looking to dump him. Teams want Hemsky they have to pay what his value to the Oilers is. If it was just a case of getting rid of Hemsky it would have been done a long time ago, but the Oilers aren't just going to give up up the guy yet.

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03-23-2013, 12:56 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Well lets look at it this way, I assume you want a good 2nd pair defenseman. Hemsky I think we can agree, when healthy is a good 2nd line winger. So what is more valuable? I would say the defenseman. Then you adding to that a big/gritty role player, which is the most valuable of role player, and a good prospect.

I can't really see Hemsky dragging that in. Especially when you consider the contract (with the cap coming down) and the fact that perhaps teams may be worried about his health.

This year especially the market value for players hasn't proven that valuable, atleast in terms of draft picks, Look at the deals that have already been made, Ponikarovsky, Gagne, Loktionov, Ellerby, D'Agostini, and Brennan. Have all gone for 4th or 5th round picks.

Not really what you would expect. With that being said, I think something fair for Hemsky (if teams are convinced injures are no longer a problem) Is probably something like 2nd + Gritty Role player or whatever. Or maybe a 1st and a decent prospect. But at this point, with the way the market has been established, and the other factors that come into consideration with this particular player. A return like 1st+Top Prospect+Gritty Roster/Role/Depth player isn't realistic.



I don't think injuries are behind any player. Any player can get injured at anytime. Unfortunately though, when players have had multiple injuries in a short period of time, that tag never really leaves the player.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/8/9/...ne-forward-NHL

Yeah, 2nd line winger... You're a Canuck fan how can you have watched Hemsky all these years and believe he's a 2nd liner. He had one mediocre season coming off a major shoulder injury, that's not uncommon. His production is still trending up but it's certainly been hurt by the Oilers woes 5x5 where he has been utilized in a strong checking role or by playing with rookies. Terrific player with a very long track record of success, i'm not ready to sell low because his production isn't at previous levels. He doesn't get the same pp time as before, his team is poor due to a weak transition and a lack of depth players who can play a checking role and yet he's still productive. He's a first liner on most teams in the NHL.

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03-23-2013, 01:00 PM
  #215
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.......very sad that Hemsky had to play most of his career for a organization that destroys its players.....can't wait to do a deal for some of your other players when they are"cupless "& used up too!

I'd say go the waiver route on this one...you guys will need he cap room while you remain "cupless" while continuing to destroy players careers

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03-23-2013, 01:00 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Surely the injury risk issue is easily settled. Set the deal up as though there were no injury issues, and then have Edmonton include a conditional 1st if Hemsky misses more than, say, 20-30 games in the season. If his injuries are truly behind him, as Edmonton fans insist, there should be nothing to fear.

...and yet I've made that proposal before and gotten incredibly, overwhelmingly hostile reactions from Oil fans. Which suggests that maybe, just maybe, said Oil fans don't really believe he's fully healed either.
That's funny
Well done!

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03-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
because that they were waived wasnt the point, the point was that their risks and costs were higher than their value....which may be the case with Hemsky

what is shameful is that Oiler fans, who apparently value Hemsky very highly, keep offering him around in trade..... if he's so valuable to you all why not say he's an Oiler for life and not available?

The majority of opposing fans have been very clear that they dont think his associated risks are worth the price that Oiler fans place on him

it seems that most Oiler fans have a habit of offering players that no one wants (relative to the asking price) while getting insulted when teams instead counter with one of Hall, RNH, Eberle, or Yakupov. Its really rather pathetic.
Nice straw man but i'll bite anyways.

Being waived and unclaimed means they have no value. Are you really this confused. Ales Hemsky is not comparabble to Wade Redden the fact i have to tell you that should make you feel shame.

Did it ever occur to you that many Oiler fans have different views. I wouldn't trade Hemsky. Good teams don't trade their best players, they add to them. When was the last time you remember Detroit unloading a top 6 forward in their prime?

Hall, Nuge, Yakupov are 1st overalls. They have ridiculous value for numerous reasons. A) They almost always become superstar level talents. B) They are under team control for a long time. C) They are usually cheaper to sign then other player's of their caliber due to their age and RFA status. The only time 1st overalls get dealt is when they don't reach their potential right away, like Johnson. And even then Johnson had a lot of value.

Eberle was 15th in scoring last year and he was 21. Do you not realize how exceptional that is. How many teams trade guys like this? Even if a Shea Weber is avaliable who is going to give up even a top 30 scorer under 23 for him? Nobody probably will because it's counter productive. We see it all the time when guys like Pronger, Burns, Heatley, ect.. get traded it's not for the other teams best player unless he's on the block himself it's for a package of quality assets. History should not be ignored.

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03-23-2013, 01:10 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Surely the injury risk issue is easily settled. Set the deal up as though there were no injury issues, and then have Edmonton include a conditional 1st if Hemsky misses more than, say, 20-30 games in the season. If his injuries are truly behind him, as Edmonton fans insist, there should be nothing to fear.

...and yet I've made that proposal before and gotten incredibly, overwhelmingly hostile reactions from Oil fans. Which suggests that maybe, just maybe, said Oil fans don't really believe he's fully healed either.
several have proposed this, in fact I hinted at it earlier in this very thread.... but Oiler fans conveniently gloss over that. that is proof positive that despite their claims to the contrary, they also arent convinced that his injuries are behind him.

it is rather insulting when you think about it, that certain oiler fans think we wouldnt notice

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03-23-2013, 01:17 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Eskimo44 View Post
Nice straw man but i'll bite anyways.

Being waived and unclaimed means they have no value. Are you really this confused. Ales Hemsky is not comparabble to Wade Redden the fact i have to tell you that should make you feel shame.

Did it ever occur to you that many Oiler fans have different views. I wouldn't trade Hemsky. Good teams don't trade their best players, they add to them. When was the last time you remember Detroit unloading a top 6 forward in their prime?

Hall, Nuge, Yakupov are 1st overalls. They have ridiculous value for numerous reasons. A) They almost always become superstar level talents. B) They are under team control for a long time. C) They are usually cheaper to sign then other player's of their caliber due to their age and RFA status. The only time 1st overalls get dealt is when they don't reach their potential right away, like Johnson. And even then Johnson had a lot of value.

Eberle was 15th in scoring last year and he was 21. Do you not realize how exceptional that is. How many teams trade guys like this? Even if a Shea Weber is avaliable who is going to give up even a top 30 scorer under 23 for him? Nobody probably will because it's counter productive. We see it all the time when guys like Pronger, Burns, Heatley, ect.. get traded it's not for the other teams best player unless he's on the block himself it's for a package of quality assets. History should not be ignored.
no being waived for the purpose of a buyout does not mean they have no value....

it means that their value, whatever it may be, wasnt worth paying their full contract

Hemskys injury risks and salary are not worth what some oiler fans want for him.

its a very simple equation

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03-23-2013, 01:48 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
no being waived for the purpose of a buyout does not mean they have no value....

it means that their value, whatever it may be, wasnt worth paying their full contract

Hemskys injury risks and salary are not worth what some oiler fans want for him.

its a very simple equation
So you just ignored everything he said and then went back to your tired old argument?

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03-23-2013, 02:06 PM
  #221
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So you just ignored everything he said and then went back to your tired old argument?
no i responded to what was pertinent

the rest was extraneous and wasnt on point

whats tiring is some oiler fans insulting us with them trying to trade Ales Hemsky without taking into account the effect his injury history has on his value

its like a Red Wing fan trying to force you to trade Eberle and Hall for Gordie Howe, and he's refusing to accept that Gordie is 75 years old and as great as he used to be, he's just not worth that much anymore

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03-23-2013, 02:09 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by jtaveras4pres View Post
no i responded to what was pertinent

the rest was extraneous and wasnt on point

whats tiring is some oiler fans insulting us with them trying to trade Ales Hemsky without taking into account the effect his injury history has on his value

its like a Red Wing fan trying to force you to trade Eberle and Hall for Gordie Howe, and he's refusing to accept that Gordie is 75 years old and as great as he used to be, he's just not worth that much anymore
agreed. Gordie Howe at 75 is more of less the same as a current first line winger

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03-23-2013, 02:11 PM
  #223
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As a Pens fan, I say hell no x infinity.
Thats only because you guys are trading Maata and that 1st to us for Iginla

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03-23-2013, 02:22 PM
  #224
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I see the Hemsky's injury history still being used, the fact is that a top 6 forward is at a premium, and will not come cheap. It's all about winning the cup this year and what ever happens after that is a bonus, do what ever it takes to get you that cup.

Some posters think that due to Hemsky's history, they think their team can get him for cheap and whine and cry when the Oilers fans disagree with them. HFboards somethings never change.

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03-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
I see the Hemsky's injury history still being used, the fact is that a top 6 forward is at a premium, and will not come cheap. It's all about winning the cup this year and what ever happens after that is a bonus, do what ever it takes to get you that cup.

Some posters think that due to Hemsky's history, they think their team can get him for cheap and whine and cry when the Oilers fans disagree with them. HFboards somethings never change.
Oh, quite. Agree entirely that Hemsky shouldn't be available at a scratch-and-dent discount.

But some degree of risk acceptance on the part of Edmonton would still be necessary.

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