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Old
01-19-2013, 02:41 PM
  #1
Canadiankid61
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Wchl

What if the 3 major leagues in the CJHL combined? Just an idea.

What about a new league?
My suggestion is to form a Western Canadian Jr. A Hockey league, similiar to the structure of the WHL. This will allow Junior A players to play against the best and be in the eye of both College and professional scouts on a daily basis.
I will supply more details about 20 yesr olds, inter-locking schedule, etc. later, but here is a quick look at "POSSIBLE" innagural teams in this new league

WESTERN CONFERENCE
North Division
Penticton Vees
Prince George Spruce kings
Salmon Arm Silverbacks
Vernon Vipers

South Division
Port Alberni Bulldogs
Chillawachk Chiefs
Surrey Eagles
Langley Rivermen

East Division
Brooks Bandits
Fort Mac Oil Barons
Okotoks Oilers
Canada under 18 team - Calgary based team

EASTERN CONFERENCE
West Division
Camrose Kodiaks
Grand Prairie Storm
Battleford North stars
Lloydminster Bobcats

North Division
Flin Flon Bombers
Humboldt Broncos
Melfort Mustangs
Notre Dame Hounds

South Division
Yorkton terriers
Melville Millionaires
Weyburn Red Wings
Estevan Bruins


Why would the teams join?
This will be the Elite Jr. A country in Canada. Winner of our league will face the USHL champion.

Budget?
Attendance is going down. Fans/advertisers want to see and support a better product. New league will attract larger fan base.
New league-larger fan base - increase financial support from National brands/advertisers.

There are some questions, but, I think we can all agree that the status-quo is not working.

Time to think outside the box. I look forward to the debate or maybe your approval of this new league.


Last edited by Canadiankid61: 01-24-2013 at 08:44 PM.
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Old
01-23-2013, 08:00 PM
  #2
Shootmaster_44
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I am curious how you picked the teams. I don't follow the AJHL all that closely, but the most successful team in the league you excluded, Fort Mac. However, you have my hometown Bobcats which nearly moved at the end of 2011.

I also am not sure what this league offers beyond bigger travel budgets. I don't see a title game against the USHL being a big selling point in attracting players. The reason at least some of these teams are in the CJHL is because their ownership cannot afford to be traveling to WHL cities. Also, why would Hockey Canada pull out of their own nationally sanctioned RBC Cup and place their U18 team in a league that would play against the USHL Champion?

It would be interesting to see a little more interlocking schedules between leagues. Considering that Lloydminster and the Battlefords are only an hour apart, I could see some of the teams in the Eastern AJHL and the Western SJHL playing each other. Also, the Western AJHL and Eastern BCHL could play each other.

A better idea I would think is to make some of the teams of the CJHL farm teams with WHL teams. I know the OHL and the OJHL do this. It would add to some of the interest in the CJHL if say the Lloydminster Bobcats and Saskatoon Blades were affiliated. The teams would then share a talent pool and players who were needing some seasoning might play for the Bobcats before starring in the WHL.

So for the sake of argument here is how this would go, at least based on geographic area:

Brandon Wheat Kings -> Portage Terriers
Calgary Hitmen -> Calgary Canucks
Edmonton Oil Kings ->Sherwood Park Crusaders
Everett Silvertips -> Cowichan Valley Capitals
Kamloops Blazers -> Vernon Vipers
Kelowna Rockets -> West Kelowna Warriors
Kootenay Ice -> Trail Smoke Eaters
Lethbridge Hurricanes -> Okotoks Oilers
Medicine Hat Tigers -> Brooks Bandits
Moose Jaw Warriors -> Weyburn Red Wings
Prince Albert Raiders -> Melfort Mustangs
Prince George Cougars -> Prince George Spruce Kings
Portland Winterhawks -> Chilliwack Chiefs
Red Deer Rebels -> Camrose Kodiaks
Regina Pats -> Estevan Bruins
Saskatoon Blades -> Humboldt Broncos
Seattle Thunderbirds -> Langley Rivermen
Spokane Chiefs -> Penticton Vees
Swift Current Broncos -> Kindersley Klippers
Tri-City Americans -> Coquitlam Express
Vancouver Giants -> Surrey Eagles
Victoria Royals -> Victoria Grizzlies

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Old
01-24-2013, 08:43 PM
  #3
Canadiankid61
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Thanks for the reply. I honestly planned putting Fort Mac in there but somehow put Spruce Grove and there 200 fans in by accident. The reason why Hockey Canada would hopefully send a U18 team is if the winner of the RBC Cup played in a 4 team tournament with the WCHL, and the USHL Champion similar to the Memorial Cup. Fantasies I know but anything can happen!

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02-01-2013, 11:58 AM
  #4
Regina Pat
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A more affordable approach might be to combine Sask and Man into one league and AB and BC into another first, and see if teams can handle more travel expenses.

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03-23-2013, 01:39 PM
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I find this a terrific idea. With National partners and sponsorships, I can see this happening. People would come in bunches if they found out that Humboldt and Penticton would be facing off in a regular season match. Also it would be pretty neat to have a Memorial Cup style event to settle the best Junior. A team in North America. Just my two cents...

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03-24-2013, 08:01 PM
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Derek Sutton
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Neat idea but would never fly, way too much travel. The leagues pride themselves on scholarships, and being home for school during the week (for the most part) or short over night road trips. You would also be missing out on the natural geographic rivalries, therefore further reducing attendance numbers. You also must not own a map. Ft Mc in the same conference as Surrey? Flin Flon and GP in the same conference?

I would like to see the AJ, which I'm most familiar with, drop 4 teams, or at least move move the ones out of Calgary and 2 out of the Edmonton area to towns where they would be the major/ only draw.

As for the "farm team" idea, well the two leagues appeal to different players, obviously if your selling point is NCAA scholarships' there is no benefit to being partnered with a WHL team. If you want to win, there is no benefit in developing 16 and 17 yr olds every year just so they can move on and have success playing at the next level. It depends on the team and their budgets I guess, like all leagues the paying field is not equal Brooks, Ft Mc, Camrose are teams that want to win and have a budget to do so. As for the Calgary teams, they don't stand a chance.

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03-24-2013, 08:04 PM
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Derek Sutton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedub View Post
I find this a terrific idea. With National partners and sponsorships, I can see this happening. People would come in bunches if they found out that Humboldt and Penticton would be facing off in a regular season match. Also it would be pretty neat to have a Memorial Cup style event to settle the best Junior. A team in North America. Just my two cents...
Do you really think that would draw moe fans then an Olds vs Drumheller? Just an hour apart? Local rivalries bring in more fans any day of the week.

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03-27-2013, 09:04 PM
  #8
Canadiankid61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton View Post
Do you really think that would draw moe fans then an Olds vs Drumheller? Just an hour apart? Local rivalries bring in more fans any day of the week.
That's a very good point. By both you and Thedub. Maybe Olds and Drumheller would draw more, but as a SJHL first kinda guy those rivalry games always do get a lot of buts in those seats (look at Melville, Yorkton right now.) But on the flip side, what about non rivalries? A home game for Drumheller would draw about 700-800 fans tops. That's one of the reason I wanted to make this league, for those "stronger" markets who can average 1200+ fans a game, and if we're in a more promising league could. As I read in a previous thread on another forum, "what's the point of having private boxes for an SJ game?" this league would give it a point.


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04-01-2013, 11:46 PM
  #9
Thedub
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Sry to get a bit off topic but... I would like to know how many fans you would need for teams to get by in this league... You can look at the dubs attendance all you want but this can be set up an entire different way.

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04-07-2013, 09:01 PM
  #10
Canadiankid61
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I took some advice and decided to take a look at a map... Matching numbers mean rivalry

WCHL

64 games
6 20 year-olds
4 can play each given night
Teams play every team twice, division 4 Times, Rival 6 Times

Western Conference

West Division

Alberni Valley Bulldogs 1
Chilliwack Chiefs 1
Langley Rivermen 2
Surrey Eagles 2

North Division

Salmon Arm Silverbacks 1
Penticton Vees 2
Prince George Spruce Kings 1
Vernon Vipers 2

East Division

Canada U18 1
Drumheller Dragons 2
Okotooks Oilers 1
Brooks Bandits 2

Eastern Conference

North
Camrose Kodiaks 1
Fort Mcmurray Oil Barons 2
Grande Prairie Storm 2
Lloydminster Bobcats 1

North Division

Battleford North Stars 1
Humboldt Broncos 2
Melfort Mustangs 2
Notre Dame Hounds 1

South Division

Estevan Bruins 1
Melville Millionaires 2
Weyburn Red Wings 1
Yorkton Terriors 2




Suppliers And Suppliers

Esso (Cheap Gas)
Mr. Sub (Cheap Meals)
Wyndham Hotels (Cheap Hotel)
Gatorade (Drinks and Bottles)
Canadian Tire (Tape)
Molson Coors (Cheap Beer)
BC Ferries (Cheap Ferry Service)
Ticketmaster (Tickets)
Boston Pizza (Cheap Meals)
Smitty's (Cheap Meals)
Telus (Advertising)
Sobeys/IGA (Cheep Groceries)
Labbatt Bud (Cheep Beer)
Credit Union (Advertising)
Sport Select (Advertising)
Co-op (Everything)
Kal Tire (Maintenence)
Home Hardware (Advertising)
Dodge (Advertising)
Chevrolet (Advertising)
Ford (Advertising)

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04-11-2013, 08:51 PM
  #11
Thedub
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Jeez I think it's just me and you for this topic LOL. But the changes you made are I think what the league needed, and the sponsors are perfect..

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04-11-2013, 09:35 PM
  #12
Derek Sutton
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Originally Posted by Thedub View Post
Jeez I think it's just me and you for this topic LOL. But the changes you made are I think what the league needed, and the sponsors are perfect..
Because this league would be a nightmare for travel, and basically you just eliminated a few weaker markets and joined up the tier two leagues. How would you sell education when the players will be travelling all over Western Canada as opposed to home nearly every week night? How would the level of play increase?

I can only speak for the AJHL. What I would like to see is dropping 3-4 teams and eliminating 16yr olds. The levels of play would be greater all around including Jr B teams and in Midget.

I would like to see a memorial cup style tournament held with the four league champions meeting to determine a Western Canadian Champion.

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04-15-2013, 01:08 AM
  #13
WheatiesHockey
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It would be like trying to reinvent the wheel.
Even in the geographically dispersed WHL the best rivalries are local ones.
I watched the Kamloops and Kelowna series on cable and it was great fun hockey.

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05-05-2013, 04:04 PM
  #14
Shootmaster_44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Sutton View Post
I would like to see a memorial cup style tournament held with the four league champions meeting to determine a Western Canadian Champion.
Well you are about a year late in suggesting this. This year was the first year of the Western Canada Cup, which is exactly this.

http://www.westerncanadacup.ca/leagu...leagueID=21739

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05-05-2013, 05:03 PM
  #15
Shootmaster_44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiankid61 View Post
I took some advice and decided to take a look at a map... Matching numbers mean rivalry

WCHL

64 games
6 20 year-olds
4 can play each given night
Teams play every team twice, division 4 Times, Rival 6 Times

Western Conference

West Division

Alberni Valley Bulldogs 1
Chilliwack Chiefs 1
Langley Rivermen 2
Surrey Eagles 2

North Division

Salmon Arm Silverbacks 1
Penticton Vees 2
Prince George Spruce Kings 1
Vernon Vipers 2

East Division

Canada U18 1
Drumheller Dragons 2
Okotooks Oilers 1
Brooks Bandits 2

Eastern Conference

North
Camrose Kodiaks 1
Fort Mcmurray Oil Barons 2
Grande Prairie Storm 2
Lloydminster Bobcats 1

North Division

Battleford North Stars 1
Humboldt Broncos 2
Melfort Mustangs 2
Notre Dame Hounds 1

South Division

Estevan Bruins 1
Melville Millionaires 2
Weyburn Red Wings 1
Yorkton Terriors 2




Suppliers And Suppliers

Esso (Cheap Gas)
Mr. Sub (Cheap Meals)
Wyndham Hotels (Cheap Hotel)
Gatorade (Drinks and Bottles)
Canadian Tire (Tape)
Molson Coors (Cheap Beer)
BC Ferries (Cheap Ferry Service)
Ticketmaster (Tickets)
Boston Pizza (Cheap Meals)
Smitty's (Cheap Meals)
Telus (Advertising)
Sobeys/IGA (Cheep Groceries)
Labbatt Bud (Cheep Beer)
Credit Union (Advertising)
Sport Select (Advertising)
Co-op (Everything)
Kal Tire (Maintenence)
Home Hardware (Advertising)
Dodge (Advertising)
Chevrolet (Advertising)
Ford (Advertising)
Taking a look at your sponsors, I did some quick research based on your proposed teams and here's a problem with your choices for sponsorship.

Mr. Sub only has locations in Surrey, Fort McMurray, Grande Prairie and Yorkton. Also, in BC IGA is a different company than Sobeys and Sobeys are virtually non-existent in BC. Credit Unions would be the biggest issue as unlike the Big 5 banks, Credit Unions are not a chain but rather independent companies. Thus, the league wouldn't be able to have the sponsorship of "the Credit Union" as that doesn't exist.

Also, unless the idea is to have games televised, which is unlikely on a leaguewide basis, why would these national companies sponsor the league? I doubt say Molson Coors would sponsor the league simply to supply beer to the arenas. Also, I assume most of the arenas are controlled by the cities the teams are based in. Thus, switching brands isn't that simple. When dealing with any level of government, tendering must be done and the best deal (i.e. the cheapest) is what the city goes for. This is done to ensure that the local government isn't favouring their buddies.

Also, a league like this would be seen as a competitor to the Canadian Hockey League or at least the Western Hockey League. So current WHL sponsors (which get better play for their money through televised games on Shaw and Sportsnet) would not want to ruffle those feathers by sponsoring what seems to be a rival league.

Lastly, I reiterate a point made previously, where is the money going to come from for the teams to do the increased travel? I'm assuming in most of the existing leagues (the BCHL might be different due to the size of it), travel does not include an overnight stay. I would assume only the games in Fort McMurray and possibly Grande Prairie see AJHL teams spend the night. This is only done because the teams play two game series in those places. Otherwise, I assume for road games that are near your home city, you take the bus home. If you have a road game the next night in another city, likely they drive through the night to the next one. Seems to me that is what the AJHL teams who come to Lloydminster seem to do.

As well, many of these teams are run on shoestring budgets. The owners do not have the extra capital like in the CHL to suddenly decide to now include games in another province. My assumption is that is why the AJHL, SJHL, MJHL and BCHL decided to scrap the regional cup tournaments and move to the Western Canada Cup. It allows for the teams to save on travel. I also assume that the host committee and Hockey Canada pick up the travel costs to the RBC Cup.

From a Lloydminster stand point, the Bobcats are owned by the community, when the team was about to move, the City of Lloydminster stepped in and organized a drive to save the team. Anyone wishing to buy shares (but also realize they were on the hook for losses) could do so for $250 I believe. I believe 11 groups stepped up and bought the equivalent shares to allow for the team to remain in Lloydminster. I doubt these owners would be looking to move the team to a new league with higher costs.

The last issue with this is that while in your mind, this concept would fly, I doubt the leagues would see this. Much like in the late 60s/early 70s when the Western Hockey League was in its infancy, this league would have to breakaway from Hockey Canada to be formed. Since each of these leagues are operated by the Provincial hockey associations, it would mean that in essence Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia would no longer be members of Hockey Canada. What this would mean is that the Telus Cup, Midget AAA tournament would not have any participants west of Manitoba, nor would the Allan Cup or any other Hockey Canada sanctioned tournament.

Lastly, if Hockey Canada were to be on board with this as you envision, what happens to the teams that aren't "picked" to be in this league? Much like when the WHA was accepted into the NHL, these other teams would have to be paid to fold. I don't see teams paying to do this.

If the idea is that the AJHL, SJHL and BCHL would continue without the remaining teams. I doubt Manitoba east would be too happy about suddenly being demoted for a Western Canada based league. For the CJHL to continue but for your WCHL to exist, the junior hockey system would need to be revamped.

The CHL would continue being Major Junior, but what do you do with the WCHL? Certainly, a league like this would be a higher caliber than the remnants of the BCHL, AJHL and SJHL, so the WCHL would then be Junior A. So this would mean the CJHL would become Junior B and so on and so forth.

However, this causes an issue since the WCHL and the Manitoba east version of the CJHL would be equivalent talent levels more or less (since the WCHL wouldn't be able to recruit outside of BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan). Thus, you would see those leagues become upset and the CJHL would fall apart. Leaving the SJHL, BCHL and AJHL without any sort of umbrella league/national playoff structure. The rest of the country would no doubt attempt to join up with the WCHL for national playoff purposes. So really, what was the point of all of this aside from remove junior hockey from some cities.

On a totally different tangent, where would Canada's U18 team come from? There is no permanent national team as the team is made up of CHL players who do not make the playoffs. I really doubt players like Connor McDavid would say he'd rather not play in the OHL for Erie and become a surefire NHL prospect because he wants to play in a lower level league on Canada's U18 team. I hate to break it to you, but wearing the Canadian jersey doesn't mean much to these players, if it means they may not have as good a shot at the NHL. Essentially, what you are suggesting is making the CHL a 18-19 year old league, as the best U18 players would be playing for Team Canada's U18 team in the WCHL. I don't see the CHL agreeing to this.

As the CHL isn't directly governed by Hockey Canada, they could decide that they don't need any agreement with Hockey Canada, which in reality they don't. Thus, Hockey Canada would rule the CHL a rebel league and ban all players from participating in Hockey Canada sanctioned leagues. Therefore, the Canadian U20 team would no longer feature the CHL players as they are ineligible due to the sanctions by Hockey Canada. You can bet that TSN would be raising hell with Hockey Canada for this garbage, as it would kill their money cow.

If Hockey Canada, so chose, they could also forbid CHL rebels from joining any Hockey Canada sanctioned teams. Thus, players could no longer player for the senior team at the Worlds nor the Olympics. Most 15/16 year olds would not see this and would see NHL stardom as their first choice. So the CHL would continue getting the same players it always did.

The CHL would continue on its merry way, as the NHL keeps the league going through development and the ownership groups have deep pockets that would allow it to continue without any agreement with Hockey Canada. So as you see the WCHL could destabilize hockey in Canada as we know it.

The only reason the USNDT exists in the USHL is that for American players, the NCAA is a better route to the NHL than the CHL is many times. Thus, they agree to play in the USHL as it ensures their eligibility in the NCAA. From what I know about Canadian players, the CHL is the "show" and you want to play Major Junior. If you aren't good enough for the "show" then you consider the CJHL and the NCAA. Sure, there are a few who decide education is important and they want to play in the NCAA. But for the vast majority, the CHL drafts are what they are playing for and the goal is to play in the WHL/OHL/QMJHL, not the NCAA.

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05-06-2013, 09:07 AM
  #16
Canadiankid61
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Hell of a reply... Really!! You are striving me to make this league, this idea better. Thanks!!

Sponsorships: Mr. Sub: A very good "hockey company." Sponsor alot for NHL teams in Canada. Secondly I didn't wanna go with Subway because its already sponsored with the CHL. Lastly as a "major" sponsor I don't see any reason why they can't expand into the WCHL markets.

Credit Union: Could sponsor one (1) of the two (2) Sask Divisions or the regular season champion... Ex: Credit Union Cup presented to the regular season champion of the eastern division.

Sobeys/IGA when researching them I did find out that they were independently owned and I later was going to add Save on Foods to a BC rep.

Coors/Molson I don't see any reason why they wouldn't. As they sponsor many Jr. A teams, and leagues across Canada.

TV: For television I was thinking this

Global: BC
Score: Alberta
CTV: Saskatchewan
TSN: U18

Also for each representing sponsor season each regular season ticket holder will receive 10% off from there local store
_______________________

Budget yes, it will be tough for the budget. But, you gotta spend money to make money, and with the "dollars off" from sponsors and a better competiton attendance will icrease. Also by going to Alberta once by a "Sask Rep or team" it is no different travel wise then a north team going to Estevan, Weyburn. Yes I know a lot of Dub teams are losing money, but this isn't the dub, not trying to be, and were going to try to make this work. I am trying to make a "budget" for a year, all about the dollars, at a average attendance of 1000.

"Money" With the increased budget of this league, sponsors pay a huge roll, instead of major dollars payed to be a sponsor in the league, companies can offer discounts, 50% off any Wyndham Hotel, 25% off Esso Gas, or 50% off any sponsoring resteraunt. You gotta think outside the box....

_______________________
Jr. A You do make a valid point here also, Jr. A is majorly considered Teir 2. Mostly of Major Junior cuts.... That's where we can capitalize on players and other leagues can Capitolize on players "CJHL" The WCHL will stay away from "washed up" players while the "CJHL" won't... Not a lesser league, lesser scholarships.. The current SJHL, and MJHL is a contender each year for the RBC Cup but has one of the lesser scholarship rate in all of Canada, frankly because its full of ex. WHL players who ruined there NCAA ability. Thus is the major difference between the two leagues, totally different, not better, just different. The WCHL will be a younger league, more like the WHL, while the remaining teams playing in the "CJHL" will have an older league with more Ex. CHL players, that will have bigger, stronger, more physical games, that will have more experience...

WCHL/CJHL Here is one of the many obstacles in this league, "why would I play here" Ex. Trail Smoke Eaters.
Pretend your a 19 year old who recently got cut by the Brandon Wheat Kings of the WHL, you expect to take your talent to the Camrose Kodiaks of the "WCHL", but they trade your rights to the Trail Smoke Eaters, Camrose feels that you might leave mid season as you "ruined" your NCAA ability.. You don't leave mid season, you go to the Trail Smoke Eaters, and lead the team in scoring, and lead them to a RBC Cup Chamionship with 8 other, WHL players... Yes it will be tough trying to recruit guys for Spruce Grove in the AJHL, no doubt there will be a "lesser" opportunity for a scholarship, but it doesn't mean it's a lesser league, just a different league. I'm not trying to ruin the current Jr. A in any way, maybe this way it will make it more competitive.
__________________________

U18: We're not trying to take away the best players from the CHL. This U18 team will no doubt get attendance up (Who wouldn't wanna see a top end player from the draft), but also it WILL have good development for theese players. They will be able to work with Hockey Canada, and get better at hockey skills, and people skills. If a player doesn't wanna come he doesn't have to. It's his choice if he wants to stay in the CHL. There is no way every world junior player player in Canada was a star as a sixteen year old, everyone peaks at different times, and the U18 will strive for that "the best player you can be." "Seth Jones spent time with the USANDP so why can't "I" go that same route." There is talk that another hyped player might go the college route Matt Barzel, who was drafted 1st overall in 2012. Barzal could later join many players who had success in the NHL including (Jonathon Toews, Justin Schultz, Jaden Schwartz, Cory Conacher, Dany Heatly, Dan Boyle, Cris Kunitz, Kevin Bieksa,Mike Cammalleri, Marty St Louis, and Patrick Sharp) just to name a few, all would have played in this league if given a chance, so I don't see any kid give up a opportunity to play for your country at any time, for any reason. The Canada U18 team will make you a better player and a better person, also give you a couple more years before you make your decision on where you wanna go. (WHL/College)


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05-15-2013, 10:56 PM
  #17
Thedub
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Very good reply like I said before budget is very key to this league being successful. I love the idea having discounts for season ticket holders, as it most certainly raise attendance.

U18 Will be another major key I too can't see many players leaving the CHL we will just have to wait and see. Other then that like I said many times before tremendous idea. Imigine.... Those sell out barns, nothing better.

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08-20-2013, 12:49 AM
  #18
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Bumping the old thread just wanting to get some criticizim for the league on trying to make it better and happen!!

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08-31-2013, 01:04 AM
  #19
Thedub
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To be honest we would see a tremendous attendance boost in junior hockey if this came on board.. Look at the RBC Cup when the home team is NOT playing well over 1000 a game. I see some fans even on losing teams to still show the hometown pride but just come for the talent level.

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09-03-2013, 03:25 PM
  #20
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flin flon has to be in this boys, we always have a very competitive team, we have the industry to drive a team that requires more travel and has unreal fan support even if the last couple years the numbers have been down (internal issue)

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11-12-2013, 05:34 AM
  #21
Canadiankid61
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
Sorry for the very late reply. Not going to lie nothing gets better then the Flon! I originally had them in here but figured it would be an absolute nightmare for travel. Also I believe they are going to be the key stick for the new SJ to be successful I know Alberta and BC will still be good just wonder about the SJ. it's to bad though Afrobomber if Flon had a better location the Whitney would be rocking once again!!!

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