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Old
03-23-2013, 03:31 PM
  #51
oilexport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
Lowe certainly deserves it over Weight, and Lowe will undoubtedly receive the honour when he retires from the organization.
Lowe and Weight were really good players but not HOF and not rafter material although if Hamilton is up there then Lowe should be too and perhaps Symth due to thier commitment to the organization.

If I had my choice, none of the 3 should be up there but a honorable wall designation is a great idea.

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Old
03-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Definitely not denying Weight was overall better in the regular season. Heck, anyone would tell you there's no way Anderson gets into the HHOF based on his regular season play.

Anderson was one of the top playoff performers of all time, and that's soley the reason he's in, and that's why he's in the rafters.
I'd think the total goal number in his stat line is the biggest reason he's in.

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03-23-2013, 05:11 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by The General View Post
I love Dough Weight but if he is in the Hall of Fame. You might as well open it up to a hundred other people.
He can use that same argument for at least a few dozen guys who are already in.

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03-23-2013, 06:15 PM
  #54
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Not like anyone's gonna want to wear #39 anyways

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Greasy Sliders View Post
Not like anyone's gonna want to wear #39 anyways

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:43 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
If Minard had more speed (and better vision), he'd be Doug Weight.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:47 PM
  #57
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It wouldn't bother me too much if we retired his number. He was the face of the franchise during the 90's and had a 1000 point career. We're not talking about a Canuck who finished with 600 points or something.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:57 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Doubtful.
I don't agree that it is doubtful. The following Oilers seem quite comparable to Doug Weight to me, particularly considering this season has been shortened due to the lockout:
______________________________________________
Doug Weight as an 18-year-old had played no NHL games

Current Oiler comparison:
Nail Yakupov as an 18-year-old has
29 gp
15 pts
(Yakupov is projecting better)
______________________________________________
Doug Weight as a 19-year-old had played no NHL games

Current Oiler comparison:
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins as a 19-year-old has
89 gp
63 pts
(Nugent-Hopkins is projecting better)
_______________________________________________
Doug Weight as a 20-year-old had amassed
52 gp
30 pts
(No 20-year-old Oilers to compare, but the 18 and 19 year old ones still project to be much better.)
_______________________________________________
Doug Weight as a 21-year-old had amassed
131 gp
78 pts

Current Oiler comparison 1:
Taylor Hall 21-year-old:
152 gp
121 pts
(Hall is projecing better)

Current Oiler comparison 2:
Magnus Paajarvi as a 21-year-old:
145 gp
50 pts
(Weight is slightly ahead, but Paajarvi is in the discussion)
________________________________________________
Doug Weight as a 22-year-old had amassed
215 gp
152 pts

Current Oiler comparison:
Jordan Eberle 22-years-old
176 gp
139 pts
(Eberle has a higher points per game)
________________________________________________
Doug Weight as a 23-year-old had amassed
263 gp
192 pts

Current Oiler comparison:
Sam Gagner this season as a 23-year-old, currently has
248 gp
159 pts
(Weight is slightly better according to this stat, but to his detriment in this comparison Gagner is having the best season of his career in a season shortened by a lockout.)

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Old
03-23-2013, 07:02 PM
  #59
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Maybe. But we also have to take into account how incredibly rare 90 and 100 point seasons are now. Only the cream of the crop, the truly exceptional reach those heights and Weight did in his prime. Right now I'm just hoping that we turn a corner within the duration of Hall and Eberle's contracts. One step at a time.

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:15 PM
  #60
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I was just thinking of Weights lockout season in 95. Only 7 goals and I remember a goose egg for a long time. Was hoping RNH has a similar recovery for his production next year

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:19 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Niet View Post
Oilers have a pretty high standard for number retirement so I'll say he has no chance.

Gretzky Messier Kurri Fuhr Coffey Anderson Weight


Just doesn't look right.

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:31 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Gamefreak View Post
I remember Weight being offered $6.7M/year in 2001 to stay with the Oilers, getting $8M or $9M/year instead with St. Louis, and commenting that his family's future was now "secure".
Not to be contrarian, but my memory of this was that it was $5M/year... same as offered to Cujo. Unlike Cujo, he was traded and ultimately signed for WAY more on the open market. And, unlike Cujo, at least he let us get something in return... well.... Reasoner & Hecht (who became Stoll & JDD).

Of course, that same summer, the other marquee C on the block was Yashin, who netted Spezza & Chara... but it is better that we don't discuss this sad chapter in our history.

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Schultz, Nugent-Hopkins, Paajarvi, and Gagner may all surpass Doug Weight as players in their own right, and I think we could easily see a scenario where some of their numbers get retired in the distant future. In my opinion, you have to win something to merit getting your number retired or else be a uniquely special player. I don't see Weight being that caliber of player, although he is the closest the team has come to that type of player in many years.
Extremely doubtful. I think posters prospect love is clouding any possible "realistic" vision of the future.

To put Doug Weight's numbers into perspective, he scored 1033 pts in 1238 games. There are only 67 NHL players in history who have ever scored more. Think about that. The next closest active player is Ray Whitney who is at 1015 pts and you know how long Whitney has been playing? Jason Arnott who was a first line centre for most of his career will finish (unless he returns to the NHL) at 938 pts. Marian Hossa and Elias are next at 927 and 923 pts respectively. Still more than 100 pts away.

Taylor Hall has scored 121 pts in 153 games. Assuming he scores at a 1.0 ppg for the rest of his career, he needs to score 912 pts in 912 games. He will reach it in twelve MORE seasons. He will be 33 years old by then, and he has to avoid injuries, and any dip in production. Extremely doubtful considering Hall's injury history.

Sam Gagner? Surely you must be joking. Sam is a career 0.62 ppg. He is currently at 248 pts, and only 785 pts to go. At his current pace, he will reach 1033 pts... in 16 more seasons. Good luck with that.

Justin Schultz? Paajarvi? Oh Come on now, they're simply not a ppg players.

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:49 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
Lowe and Weight were really good players but not HOF and not rafter material although if Hamilton is up there then Lowe should be too and perhaps Symth due to thier commitment to the organization.

If I had my choice, none of the 3 should be up there but a honorable wall designation is a great idea.
I agree with the honorable wall designation for Smyth and Weight.

Anderson was the fourth highest in team scoring at 906 pts. Smyth is the next highest scoring forward in team history at 603 pts but playing 881 games is huge. That's a lot of games in an Oiler uniform. Thats second most Oiler games in Oiler history, ahead even of Messier at 851 games. I wonder if the combination of points and games played is enough.

Doug Weight comes next after Smyth, scoring 577 pts but played in only 588 Oiler games (same as Ales Hemsky currently) tied for 14th overall. I don't think he gets in.

Kevin Lowe has the greatest chance of having his jersey lifted to the rafters. He scored 383 points in an Oiler uniform, good for 11th in all time points, 2nd most amongst Oiler defensemen but leads all Oiler players ever with 1037 games played. That IS astronomical, Smyth is second at 881 games which is not that close. In fact, I'm not sure I can see anyone playing more than 1037 games played in an Oiler uniform... ever again, in his era of free agency.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:29 AM
  #65
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better man than he was a player... and that says alot.

i think he should get his jersey retired. the only oiler of the 90s that deserves it.

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03-26-2013, 12:32 AM
  #66
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Just because he was one of the few good players we had in the 90s doesn't mean we should retire his number.

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03-26-2013, 01:12 AM
  #67
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Who cares about the 80 guys.. they're ancient histories.. Dougie and his guys turned another generation of Edmontonians into fans. Yeah retire it.

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03-26-2013, 01:48 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by bleed_oil View Post
Who cares about the 80 guys.. they're ancient histories.. Dougie and his guys turned another generation of Edmontonians into fans. Yeah retire it.
In another decade, Dougie and the "Little Team that Could" will also become "ancient" history like the dynasty Oilers... just minus the all the hardware.

I'm a second-generation fan like a lot of people around here, but the as fun as that team was, the best it could do was upset a couple of far wealthier teams. (Five consecutive years in the playoffs, though, with Weight around... that's pretty good considering what we had.)

As for Weight himself, he was an elite playmaker who was a top-20 forward in his prime, but he never won any performance-based awards aside from his All-Star Game appearances. He never won the Cup as an Oiler. He probably won't ever make the HHOF due to his non-Oiler years facing chronic injuries.

Honouring his (and Smyth's, and Lowe's, and etc.) number or having a Wall of Fame would be the best bet.

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03-26-2013, 02:48 AM
  #69
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In 10, 15 years Weight and friends are going to look like world beaters compared to this sad sack group. Hell, they already do.

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03-26-2013, 07:52 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
Extremely doubtful. I think posters prospect love is clouding any possible "realistic" vision of the future.

To put Doug Weight's numbers into perspective, he scored 1033 pts in 1238 games. There are only 67 NHL players in history who have ever scored more. Think about that. The next closest active player is Ray Whitney who is at 1015 pts and you know how long Whitney has been playing? Jason Arnott who was a first line centre for most of his career will finish (unless he returns to the NHL) at 938 pts. Marian Hossa and Elias are next at 927 and 923 pts respectively. Still more than 100 pts away.

Taylor Hall has scored 121 pts in 153 games. Assuming he scores at a 1.0 ppg for the rest of his career, he needs to score 912 pts in 912 games. He will reach it in twelve MORE seasons. He will be 33 years old by then, and he has to avoid injuries, and any dip in production. Extremely doubtful considering Hall's injury history.

Sam Gagner? Surely you must be joking. Sam is a career 0.62 ppg. He is currently at 248 pts, and only 785 pts to go. At his current pace, he will reach 1033 pts... in 16 more seasons. Good luck with that.

Justin Schultz? Paajarvi? Oh Come on now, they're simply not a ppg players.
Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. I used the point total comparison only to show where those players are at in comparison to Weight at the same age. Point totals are an easy statistic to grab.

What I meant was that some of those players (RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and Schultz) are quite likely going to be better NHL players than Doug Weight. Personally, I think Weight should have retired five years before he did; he was injured a lot in that time span.

So to clarify, no, I do not think that all those players are going to play 19 years in the league (some of them could I suppose), but I do think that a number of them will be superior players to Doug Weight.

I think that Gagner is probably the best comparison to Doug Weight on the team, but I don't think in the long run that Gagner is going to be as good as Hall, RNH, Eberle, or Yakupov. They are a more elite class of player imo. The jury is out more on Paajarvi as to where he will finally plateau; he seems to have turned the corner a little. And, comparing points between Schultz and Weight doesn't even make a whole lot of sense, as they play quite different positions.

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03-26-2013, 07:55 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
better man than he was a player... and that says alot.

i think he should get his jersey retired. the only oiler of the 90s that deserves it.
I have heard that about Weight from a relative. He was a class act to most everyone he met apparently.

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03-26-2013, 12:09 PM
  #72
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We need an attitude like this behind our bench.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
What I meant was that some of those players (RNH, Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, and Schultz) are quite likely going to be better NHL players than Doug Weight. Personally, I think Weight should have retired five years before he did; he was injured a lot in that time span.

So to clarify, no, I do not think that all those players are going to play 19 years in the league (some of them could I suppose), but I do think that a number of them will be superior players to Doug Weight.

I think that Gagner is probably the best comparison to Doug Weight on the team, but I don't think in the long run that Gagner is going to be as good as Hall, RNH, Eberle, or Yakupov. They are a more elite class of player imo. The jury is out more on Paajarvi as to where he will finally plateau; he seems to have turned the corner a little. And, comparing points between Schultz and Weight doesn't even make a whole lot of sense, as they play quite different positions.
"Superior" is a somewhat vague choice of words. Do you mean that they'll put up more points in their primes than Weight, or do you mean they'll have more career points? Aside from Eberle, all of them started playing immediately after they were drafted, so I would expect Gagner, Hall, RNH, and Yakupov to have similar or better career numbers.

I think Weight was somewhat underrated in his prime due to the glut of talent at the time. Adjusted to the average league scoring rates from 2007-08 to 2011-12 (5.49 goals per game, 1.72 assists per goal), Weight would have put up:

95-96: 82GP, 22G, 71A, 93P (1.13 P/GP)
96-97: 80GP, 20G, 60A, 80P (1.00 P/GP)
97-98: 79GP, 27G, 48A, 75P (0.95 P/GP)
98-99: 43GP, 6G, 33A, 39P (0.91 P/GP)
99-00: 77GP, 21G, 52A, 73P (0.95 P/GP)
00-01: 82GP, 25G, 66A, 91P (1.11 P/GP)

TOT: 443GP, 121G, 330A, 451P (1.02 P/GP)

Playing in his actual era, Weight was 14th in total scoring (tied for 15th in points per game at 1.03) over those six years.

Weight's adjusted 1.02 points per game would be 10th best in the league over the the previous 5 years.

Weight in his prime playing in the current era would still never win any awards (well, possibly the King Clancy ), but there's really not many "tiers" above him.

That being said, I think that it is definitely possible for the kids in their respective primes to outperform Weight in his prime (most likely of them being Hall)... but it wouldn't be fair to Weight to think less about what he managed to accomplish with minimal support even if our kids become better. Weight is a thousand-point scorer from the dead-puck era, after all.


Last edited by Black Gold Extractor: 03-26-2013 at 01:07 PM.
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Old
03-26-2013, 01:56 PM
  #74
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If he had stayed and played another 5 yrs in an Oiler uniform then I would have say he is rafter worthy. He was one of those players who I wished was a lifelong Oiler.

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