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Marian Hossa - amnesty buyout candidate?

View Poll Results: Will the Hawks buyout Marian Hossa?
Yes 4 4.60%
No, they will keep him 78 89.66%
They will trade him 5 5.75%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:41 AM
  #101
Bubba88
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we are talking about a guy that will be old and is injury prone. Perfect would be buy him out, give him a longer offseason and bring him back after the half year waiting time fore a much better Cap Hit. He still got his money and the Hawks have the much needed Cap Space.

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03-22-2013, 09:26 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Let them have their fun.

It is crazy to think that fans of a team that were in awe of having a guy like Marty Havlat seven years ago would fathom trading Hossa. Marian came to the Hawks to finish his career, help Kane, Toews, etc. excel, and win a few Cups. He's arguably going to do all of that. Because of that, why is Hossa expendable? Seriously, why? Who says Hossa can't be another Selanne. He has the smarts and the savvy. You buy him out when his game falls off. Hoss is still a 70-point player in an 82-game slate. Us keeping Hossa now does not have an impact on prospects four to six years down the road. Hossa has been taken for granted. He is his own unique talent. I want every productive year of his in a Chicago sweater. When/if his game falls, we can have threads like these. Shame on any of you for considering having him bought out. We don't have a Cup without that guy, and he is a top-three forward on the best team in the league with serious and realistic Cup aspirations.

There are some spoiled fans on here. It wasn't long ago we never could have dreamt of a player of Hossa's caliber. Some, not all, of these fans want a still very productive top-three forward on a team with serious Cup potential out the door.

Threads like these makes me cringe. Props to the people with my sentiments and realize how unique a guy who does everything equally well is.

I can't wait until he goes on a tear soon and shuts some people up and watch those same people go on about how he is a world class beast.
Quoted for emphasis. Please lock this thread. It's embarrassing that its even being discussed

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Old
03-22-2013, 10:57 AM
  #103
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i think people are talking about buying him out after next season, which might not be a bad idea.

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03-22-2013, 11:12 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
i think people are talking about buying him out after next season, which might not be a bad idea.
It's a terrible idea even if there was an amnesty after 2015.

He has to go on waivers to be bought out.

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03-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
we are talking about a guy that will be old and is injury prone. Perfect would be buy him out, give him a longer offseason and bring him back after the half year waiting time fore a much better Cap Hit. He still got his money and the Hawks have the much needed Cap Space.
He would be claimed on waivers on his existing contract before CHI ever would have the chance to complete the contract termination with a buyout.

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03-22-2013, 11:23 AM
  #106
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To simplify what Doug said

Process Of Buyout Amnesty or Non Amnesty

2 Steps
1) Player put on Waivers

If player clears waivers then
2) Player Bought Out

Just look at Redden DiPreto and Gomez, They all had to clear waivers before buyouts
Hossa would never clear waivers, now or next year.

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03-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #107
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I haven't seen a clear rule that states if a player is waived the recapture penalty still applies. I have only saw it where the player is traded or retires.

Also, if he is waived in the next 2 years, we only get the recapture penalty for the time he was with us. So, 4 years of his cap advantage.

But all of this is a moot point anyway, because he isn't going anywhere until the end.

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03-22-2013, 12:10 PM
  #108
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And we still haven't seen the actual recapture formula either.

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03-22-2013, 12:18 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
I haven't seen a clear rule that states if a player is waived the recapture penalty still applies. I have only saw it where the player is traded or retires.

Also, if he is waived in the next 2 years, we only get the recapture penalty for the time he was with us. So, 4 years of his cap advantage.

But all of this is a moot point anyway, because he isn't going anywhere until the end.
http://nbcprohockeytalk.files.wordpr...an-12-2013.pdf

It's not official yet, but it reads that the Hawks on the hook for recapture in the new CBA. That's what the clubs agreed to. Unless he was traded before day 1 of the front-loaded/back-diving contract, that team is getting cap recaptured.

THERE IS NO PLAUSIBLE SCENARIO IN WHICH THE HAWKS USE AN AMNESTY BUYOUT ON HOSSA.

I would like to send a special thanks to some of radio shows in Chicago, writers like Larry Brooks, and dozens of other "experts" across the continent that make up some of these ridiculous ideas about who is a serious or even potentially serious amnesty buyout candidate.

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03-22-2013, 12:24 PM
  #110
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I guess we better keep Hossa happy then, because there's a good chance it is entirely up to him whether we have a competitive hockey club in 2020.

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03-22-2013, 02:20 PM
  #111
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why are they called amnesty buyouts if a player has to clear waivers? nothing amnesty about that.

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03-22-2013, 02:24 PM
  #112
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During the Ordinary Course “Buy-Out” periods following the 2012/13 season and 2013/14 season, in addition to any other Ordinary Course “Buy-Outs” a Club may elect to effectuate pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC, Clubs may elect to terminate and “buy-out” the already existing SPCs of up to two (2) additional Players (in the aggregate over the two (2) years) on a Compliance basis (a “Compliance Buy-Out”). Such Compliance Buy-Out(s) would be effectuated on the same terms as are set forth in Paragraph 13 of the SPC, except that the amounts paid under such “buy-out(s)” will not be charged against the Club’s Cap in any of the years in which the payments are made to the Player. Amounts paid under such Compliance Buy-Out(s) will, however, be counted against the Players’ Share during any League Year in which the “buy-out” payments are made. A Player that has been bought out under these Compliance Buy-Out provisions shall be prohibited from re-joining the Club that bought him out (via re-signing, Assignment, Waiver claim or otherwise) for the duration of the 2013/14 League Year (if the Player was bought out in 2013) and the 2014/15 League Year (if the Player was bought out in 2014).

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03-22-2013, 02:26 PM
  #113
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For all existing SPCs with terms in excess of six (6) years (“long-term contracts”), a “Cap Advantage

Page 2 of 25
January 12, 2013
NHL/NHLPA PROPOSED CBA -- SUMMARY OF TERMS




ECONOMIC & SYSTEM ISSUES






Recapture” provision will become applicable. Specifically, for years in which the Player under a long-term contract is no longer playing in the League by reason of retirement, “defection” from the NHL or otherwise (such that he is not playing and is not receiving Salary pursuant to the terms of his SPC), any “Cap Advantage” that may have been gained by a Club during the time the Player was playing in the League under his SPC (defined as the amount by which a Player’s actual cash compensation exceeds his full Averaged Amount (“AA”)), both annually and in the aggregate, will be “Recaptured,” and charged against the Club’s Upper Limit from year-to-year in equal amounts over the remaining term of the Player’s SPC.
If the contract in question is ever traded or assigned to one or more other Clubs in the League, each Club will be subject to being charged with any and all “Cap Advantage” amounts it receives while being obligated pursuant the contract.
The “Cap Advantage Recapture” provision will not apply to “Cap Advantage” amounts a Club may have gained prior to trading a Player’s contract, where such trade occurred before the execution of the new Agreement (including any binding MOU).
On a “bona fide” mid-season retirement, the Cap Advantage Recapture charge shall begin accruing in the following League Year. The parties shall discuss the treatment of a Cap Advantage Recapture charge in the case of a retirement “orchestrated” for the sole purpose of delaying the cap charge to the following year.



Nowhere there does it say amnesty buyout counts against the cap.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:35 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
why are they called amnesty buyouts if a player has to clear waivers? nothing amnesty about that.
An ordinary buyout counts against the cap.



An amnesty doesn't count against the cap.

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03-22-2013, 02:53 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
Whitney just signed 2 x4.5

Hossa isn't going anywhere. He's still on a good contract.
Whitney is going to collect $9m, which is why he is still playing. Do you think he would still play if he was going to collect $2m? And travel to a different continent to play?

This isn't an issue if the Hawks want him to play. It is an issue if Hossa wants to deep playing for $1m per year when he has made $100+m over his career.

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03-22-2013, 03:05 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I guess we better keep Hossa happy then, because there's a good chance it is entirely up to him whether we have a competitive hockey club in 2020.
Yep. Bring back Kopy after his contract is up.

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03-22-2013, 03:58 PM
  #117
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pretty sure having Hossa on unconditional waivers would end up as problem. The problem with the amnesty buyout would be the money he would have to get and he is still a good player.

since we signed him, his shoulder hasn't healed up 100% and he now has concussion problems/history.
That's a good difference...

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03-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Whitney is going to collect $9m, which is why he is still playing. Do you think he would still play if he was going to collect $2m? And travel to a different continent to play?

This isn't an issue if the Hawks want him to play. It is an issue if Hossa wants to deep playing for $1m per year when he has made $100+m over his career.
Hossa is on a good cap hit relative to his market value. That was my point. That is not going to change any time soon. Whitney's contract validates Hossa's market value. When I said he isn't going anywhere, it was regarding an amnesty buyout. He carries too much value to even consider just discarding or throwing on waivers.

Trades are a different issue. There are dozens of other scenarios to speculate on in 4 or 5 years and beyond. I think it would be foolish to worry too much about them now. Hossa doesn't appear to be a problem to have on the roster for the next few years.

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03-23-2013, 03:41 AM
  #119
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As mentioned earlier hoss will be on sellanes level in 6-7 years and if 3-6 is spent with us that's fine. He is an elite player

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03-23-2013, 03:59 AM
  #120
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Crosby and Malkin will be playing for the Hawks before we get rid of him. He's an elite winger and the idea of him going someplace else is ludicrous and I hope I don't see the day.

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03-23-2013, 05:38 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Let them have their fun.

It is crazy to think that fans of a team that were in awe of having a guy like Marty Havlat seven years ago would fathom trading Hossa. Marian came to the Hawks to finish his career, help Kane, Toews, etc. excel, and win a few Cups. He's arguably going to do all of that. Because of that, why is Hossa expendable? Seriously, why? Who says Hossa can't be another Selanne. He has the smarts and the savvy. You buy him out when his game falls off. Hoss is still a 70-point player in an 82-game slate. Us keeping Hossa now does not have an impact on prospects four to six years down the road. Hossa has been taken for granted. He is his own unique talent. I want every productive year of his in a Chicago sweater. When/if his game falls, we can have threads like these. Shame on any of you for considering having him bought out. We don't have a Cup without that guy, and he is a top-three forward on the best team in the league with serious and realistic Cup aspirations.

There are some spoiled fans on here. It wasn't long ago we never could have dreamt of a player of Hossa's caliber. Some, not all, of these fans want a still very productive top-three forward on a team with serious Cup potential out the door.

Threads like these makes me cringe. Props to the people with my sentiments and realize how unique a guy who does everything equally well is.

I can't wait until he goes on a tear soon and shuts some people up and watch those same people go on about how he is a world class beast.
1. No one is saying to buy him out this year. However in 2 years when he is older, slower, not as talented the cap is down and the Hawks need to resign Toews, Kane, Saad, Leddy, and almost every other player in the coming 2-3 years.

2. Yes the Hawks where terrible for years and years, I had season tickets in the late 90s early 00s and remember those times. It doesn't mean anything now. Yes we would have killed for Hossa then, we didn't have them then, we have him now. Talking about the past and using it as a way to say what the team should do today is irrelevant. If this where the past Toews and Kane would be shipped off in the coming year or so and this team would hit rock bottom.

3. Hossa is a special player, he is also 34 and is coming off a major concussion. Buying him out after next year isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. No one is saying buyout Toews or Kane. But to pay a 36 year old player who is no longer in his prime almost 8 million dollars a year and possibly in lieu of younger core players isn't a wise decision.

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03-23-2013, 06:14 AM
  #122
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I would want to add... that 1 1/2 seasons are still a long long time.

We still have Kane, Sharp and Saad in the Top6 as Wingers. Teräväinen should be ready by that time, Danault could play Wing by that time in the Top6 or Jayes or Morin. Plenty of options going forward.


We need to get used to lose players we would want to keep. We need to get used to see those 3-4 million guys seeing gone to keep the core together and still have good depth. Depth we get with good scouting and drafting.

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03-23-2013, 10:58 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
1. No one is saying to buy him out this year. However in 2 years when he is older, slower, not as talented the cap is down and the Hawks need to resign Toews, Kane, Saad, Leddy, and almost every other player in the coming 2-3 years.

2. Yes the Hawks where terrible for years and years, I had season tickets in the late 90s early 00s and remember those times. It doesn't mean anything now. Yes we would have killed for Hossa then, we didn't have them then, we have him now. Talking about the past and using it as a way to say what the team should do today is irrelevant. If this where the past Toews and Kane would be shipped off in the coming year or so and this team would hit rock bottom.

3. Hossa is a special player, he is also 34 and is coming off a major concussion. Buying him out after next year isn't as ridiculous as it sounds. No one is saying buyout Toews or Kane. But to pay a 36 year old player who is no longer in his prime almost 8 million dollars a year and possibly in lieu of younger core players isn't a wise decision.
Hossa will be 35 if the Hawks buy him out after next season (and he will be 35 to start the 2014-15 season. He has shown signs of slowing his production, but that production is still around 60-70 points per season which is 1st line RW material.

The 2013-14 cap will decrease to 64.3 million but after that it's very likely to continue to increase, as it has every year since its inception save for 2013-14 where the CBA negotiation forced it to decrease. We have a clearer picture next year of NHL revenues, but I'm guessing that they will continue their ascendency as they have since the 05-06 season.

Signing other players will be a concern going forward, but I would argue it's just as shortsighted to claim that Hossa will regress to a level unequal to his cap as it is to claim that prospects will ascend to the level Hossa is currently playing at. As for Toews and Kane, the Hawks will have enough cap space to accomodate them. The only way they leave is if they want to play somewhere else.

My last point is that people arguing in favor of buying out Hossa, or even arguing in favor of that possibility, are under the assumption that Rocky and Hawks management will pay Hossa 15+ million to leave and continue to spend to the cap. With that much extra money spent I can see the Hawks having an internal budget.

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03-23-2013, 03:01 PM
  #124
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THE HAWK WILL NEVER BUY HIM OUT BECAUSE SOME OTHER TEAM WILL CLAIM HIM ON WAIVERS.

AND THEN WHEN HE RETIRES EARLY, THE HAWK TAKE A CAP HIT FROM RECAPTURE.

A player needs to waived first in order to be bought out. Every team in the league will want Hossa on waivers.

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03-23-2013, 05:40 PM
  #125
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That is a sticky item as anyone looking to get out from under a circumventing deal is taking a huge risk with the retirement thing. Teemu is playing at 42 yo and I can see Hossa doing the same. The problem is, he might think the 1-2MM he is getting paid the last couple years is not worth it and retire.

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