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Sproul heads list of top drafted OHL defensemen (incl. Ryan Murphy)

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Old
03-23-2013, 10:57 AM
  #26
Nullus Reverentia
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I think Koekkoek has higher potential. I've explained why in relation to Harrington (Not Koekkoek specifically) earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Ironic.
You clearly don't understand the word.

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Old
03-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #27
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He meant to say how surprising. Before even seeing your list most of us knew Murphy would be #1.

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Old
03-23-2013, 11:31 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillhous View Post
He meant to say how surprising. Before even seeing your list most of us knew Murphy would be #1.
He should be number one. Whether I out him there or some one else does.

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:02 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I think Koekkoek has higher potential. I've explained why in relation to Harrington (Not Koekkoek specifically) earlier.



You clearly don't understand the word.
I understand the word just fine, thanks.

But just for you.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what...with-examples/

Listing a small, bad defensively prospect at number 1, while saying size and bad defense is a problem...

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
I understand the word just fine, thanks.

But just for you.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what...with-examples/

Listing a small, bad defensively prospect at number 1, while saying size and bad defense is a problem...
Yet you don't know the meaning of the world.

How often do you watch the OHL? Never? I suspected as much. Because Murphy isn't bad defensively, sorry to burst your bubble.

Size is a problem for Sproul because he's big and bad defensively. It means it's harder for him to get back, he turns the puck over move and he's less agile.

You don't even know what you're talking about, that's pretty evident with this post. Say false things about a player you haven't watched and assume when I talk about size I'm saying Sproul's too small. Sproul would be better if he was shorter.

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Old
03-23-2013, 01:10 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Yet you don't know the meaning of the world.

How often do you watch the OHL? Never? I suspected as much. Because Murphy isn't bad defensively, sorry to burst your bubble.

Size is a problem for Sproul because he's big and bad defensively. It means it's harder for him to get back, he turns the puck over move and he's less agile.

You don't even know what you're talking about, that's pretty evident with this post. Say false things about a player you haven't watched and assume when I talk about size I'm saying Sproul's too small. Sproul would be better if he was shorter.
Saw him play live, several times in the OHL, I lived about 10 miles from the Whalers rink till I moved about amonth ago.

And i know you didn't mean Sproul was small, cause I've watched him live too, kinda evident.

Size is also a problem for Murphy cause he small...and bad defensively. That means when a larger player is on him, he's less agile cause he's on his ass.

Sproul would be better if he was shorter? And I don't know what I'm talking about?

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03-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Yet you don't know the meaning of the world.

How often do you watch the OHL? Never? I suspected as much. Because Murphy isn't bad defensively, sorry to burst your bubble.

Size is a problem for Sproul because he's big and bad defensively. It means it's harder for him to get back, he turns the puck over move and he's less agile.

You don't even know what you're talking about, that's pretty evident with this post. Say false things about a player you haven't watched and assume when I talk about size I'm saying Sproul's too small. Sproul would be better if he was shorter.


No he wouldnt and at the next level his size will help even more. Youre the guy who was going on about Murphy being an elite skater and Sproul being only OK. Meanwhile Murphy doesnt show up in the OHL coach's poll and Sproul was voted the second best skater in the conference. He was also voted the best offensive dman over Murphy.

There is no way Murphy should be at the top of this list after the season he just had. Hes right where he should be although I would probably move Harrington below him

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Old
03-23-2013, 01:14 PM
  #33
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This is actually the first time I've seen someone criticize a defenseman for being 6'3 instead of ~5'11.

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Old
03-23-2013, 01:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Saw him play live, several times in the OHL, I lived about 10 miles from the Whalers rink till I moved about amonth ago.

And i know you didn't mean Sproul was small, cause I've watched him live too, kinda evident.

Size is also a problem for Murphy cause he small...and bad defensively. That means when a larger player is on him, he's less agile cause he's on his ass.

Sproul would be better if he was shorter? And I don't know what I'm talking about?
Murphy plays for the Whalers now does he? You can't seem to accurately describe Murphy so I question that claim. He's the top defensive player on a top defensive team. Sproul is not the top defensive player on a horrible defensive team. Murphy kills penalties on the top unit, Sproul occasional gets minutes on the second pairing.

Why do you think Tyler Myers is having so much problems defensively now? Because he's huge and not good defensively. Big players get victimized even more than small ones if they're not apt defensively. They don't turn as well, they are almost never as good a skater as the smaller players, easier to stick lift, lack stick handling skills.

If Sproul used his size well, and was better defensively it would be a boon but he does neither of those. He's a soft big man with poor defensive instincts. Bad combination.

Sproul will max out as a number three, his defensive instincts will never get much better then they are now, while guys like Murphy, Maatta and Ceci all have top pairing potential.

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Old
03-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Murphy plays for the Whalers now does he? You can't seem to accurately describe Murphy so I question that claim. He's the top defensive player on a top defensive team. Sproul is not the top defensive player on a horrible defensive team. Murphy kills penalties on the top unit, Sproul occasional gets minutes on the second pairing.

Why do you think Tyler Myers is having so much problems defensively now? Because he's huge and not good defensively. Big players get victimized even more than small ones if they're not apt defensively. They don't turn as well, they are almost never as good a skater as the smaller players, easier to stick lift, lack stick handling skills.

If Sproul used his size well, and was better defensively it would be a boon but he does neither of those. He's a soft big man with poor defensive instincts. Bad combination.

Sproul will max out as a number three, his defensive instincts will never get much better then they are now, while guys like Murphy, Maatta and Ceci all have top pairing potential.
Are you really trying to say that Tyler Myers would be a better NHL player at 5'11 than 6'8?

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03-23-2013, 01:54 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Murphy plays for the Whalers now does he? You can't seem to accurately describe Murphy so I question that claim. He's the top defensive player on a top defensive team. Sproul is not the top defensive player on a horrible defensive team. Murphy kills penalties on the top unit, Sproul occasional gets minutes on the second pairing.

Why do you think Tyler Myers is having so much problems defensively now? Because he's huge and not good defensively. Big players get victimized even more than small ones if they're not apt defensively. They don't turn as well, they are almost never as good a skater as the smaller players, easier to stick lift, lack stick handling skills.

If Sproul used his size well, and was better defensively it would be a boon but he does neither of those. He's a soft big man with poor defensive instincts. Bad combination.

Sproul will max out as a number three, his defensive instincts will never get much better then they are now, while guys like Murphy, Maatta and Ceci all have top pairing potential.
Although I disagree with your theory on small defenseman vs. big defenseman, I see where you're coming from. But that doesn't describe Sproul - who was recently voted one of the best skaters in the OHL by the coaches.

I don't understand how you can say one guys defensive instincts won't progress as much as others. Thats just guessing. Now if you mean defensive ability then you have a point, but awareness progression is impossible to predict.

A #3 defenseman is very realistic and I would love if Sproul develops into that, but his ceiling is a #1 IMO.

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Old
03-23-2013, 02:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Murphy plays for the Whalers now does he?
Really...

Look if you can't pick up that I've seen him play by the fact that I watched a ton of the Whalers, then I can't help you.

I'm sorry.

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03-23-2013, 02:04 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Yet you don't know the meaning of the world.

How often do you watch the OHL? Never? I suspected as much. Because Murphy isn't bad defensively, sorry to burst your bubble.

Size is a problem for Sproul because he's big and bad defensively. It means it's harder for him to get back, he turns the puck over move and he's less agile.

You don't even know what you're talking about, that's pretty evident with this post. Say false things about a player you haven't watched and assume when I talk about size I'm saying Sproul's too small. Sproul would be better if he was shorter.
Saw him play live, several times in the OHL, I lived about 10 miles from the Whalers rink till I moved about amonth ago.

And i know you didn't mean Sproul was small, cause I've watched him live too, kinda evident.

Size is also a problem for Murphy cause he small...and bad defensively. That means when a larger player is on him, he's less agile cause he's on his ass.

Sproul would be better if he was shorter? And I don't know what I'm talking about?

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Old
03-23-2013, 02:07 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Although I disagree with your theory on small defenseman vs. big defenseman, I see where you're coming from. But that doesn't describe Sproul - who was recently voted one of the best skaters in the OHL by the coaches.

I don't understand how you can say one guys defensive instincts won't progress as much as others. Thats just guessing. Now if you mean defensive ability then you have a point, but awareness progression is impossible to predict.

A #3 defenseman is very realistic and I would love if Sproul develops into that, but his ceiling is a #1 IMO.
As the coaches poll has shown over the past few years, it's not always indicative of the actual best at something. Sproul still isn't agile, he's not going to be sidestepping guys.

And I really can't see Sproul as a number one. He's not responsible enough defensively to trust with penalty killing or shutdown duty so I can't see him ever playing first pairing minutes in the NHL.

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03-23-2013, 02:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
I said that's his max upside. I also don't see him becoming a #3 but he's got the potential because of his defensive insticts.

Which is why I can't agree with him at number two on that list.

I've said enough about Sproul in other threads but it's the same thing with him, except the opposite. His defense will never be good enough for him to ever be a top pairing defensemen, and size + bad defense is a bad combination.

Should have been:
1. R. Murphy
2. Maatta
3. Ceci
4. Sproul
5. C. Murphy
6. Corrado
7. Koekkoek
8. Harrington
9. Percy
10. Pelech

Guys like Levi, DeMelo I don't see having much NHL upside. Like I said a few posts ago, really don't know what they based this on. It seems like it's on play this season yet Ceci who's been arguably atrocious defensively (Especially with Ottawa) was high.
10.
Murphy can't even play defence. Might as well just move him to forward. It is ironic though by you saying "His defense will never be good enough for him to ever be a top pairing defensemen, and size + bad defense is a bad combination." - yet you rank Murphy ahead on Sproul & others in terms of upside.

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Old
03-23-2013, 02:44 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
As the coaches poll has shown over the past few years, it's not always indicative of the actual best at something. Sproul still isn't agile, he's not going to be sidestepping guys.

And I really can't see Sproul as a number one. He's not responsible enough defensively to trust with penalty killing or shutdown duty so I can't see him ever playing first pairing minutes in the NHL.
In 2 and a half years in the OHL Sproul has made a team halfway through the season pretty much, turned himself into a second round pick in that time frame, led the league in goals for dmen and then was by far the best offensive dman in the OHL in his last year. All in that tiny little time frame but you think with how far his defensive game (and whole game in general) has come now that his defensive game wont get any better then it is now?

First you go on about his speed not being great, now its not his speed its how agile he is and you resort to claiming no one watches the OHL but you. I dont know how you cant admit Sproul dominated this year but will claim that Murphy had a great season

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by DatsRatchet View Post
Murphy can't even play defence. Might as well just move him to forward. It is ironic though by you saying "His defense will never be good enough for him to ever be a top pairing defensemen, and size + bad defense is a bad combination." - yet you rank Murphy ahead on Sproul & others in terms of upside.
If Murphy can't play defense, than what does Sproul do? Is he anti-defense? Murphy can play defense, much better than guys like Ceci and Sproul.

Rutherford and Muller both said sang the praises of Murphy when he was up, he showed he could be responsible or at least had the potential to be (Since it was a small sample size).

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:25 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
If Murphy can't play defense, than what does Sproul do? Is he anti-defense? Murphy can play defense, much better than guys like Ceci and Sproul.

Rutherford and Muller both said sang the praises of Murphy when he was up, he showed he could be responsible or at least had the potential to be (Since it was a small sample size).
This is the WJC all over again. I feel a little bad for you as this position is likely to become less defensible over time, just like it did over the course of that tournament. In no way did Murphy have a better season than Sproul, to suggest otherwise sounds ridiculous. Furthermore it is quite easy to argue Murphy's defense is terrible, guess you could say Sproul has work to do, of course people admit that, Murphy has a ton of work to do and you think he is the second coming of Brian Leetch or something.

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03-23-2013, 03:59 PM
  #44
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Yeah, Murphy's pretty terrible. I've never been a fan of his. Take away his skating and he's got nothing. He doesn't think the game all that well and if he's not scoring, he's likely hurting your team.

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03-23-2013, 04:18 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
This is the WJC all over again. I feel a little bad for you as this position is likely to become less defensible over time, just like it did over the course of that tournament. In no way did Murphy have a better season than Sproul, to suggest otherwise sounds ridiculous. Furthermore it is quite easy to argue Murphy's defense is terrible, guess you could say Sproul has work to do, of course people admit that, Murphy has a ton of work to do and you think he is the second coming of Brian Leetch or something.
The tournment was ridiculous and I wasn't the only person to point that out. Murphy would make one mistake and suddnely a dozen people would be posting about how horrible he was, but if another player did it? It was fine.

The final play of Canada's tournment is probably the best evidence of this. Rielly turns the puck over, leaving Russia's best (And fastest) player coming down the wing. Rielly was fast enough that he could have recovered and helped out but he didn't. It wouldn't have mattered who was defending against Nichushkin, he was that good that he could have got by anyone.

Yet guess who got the blame for it? Murphy, despite Murphy being almost single handily responsble for Canada's offense that game.

It's quite hard to argue Murphy's defense is terrible if you actually watch him. Every single person who attacks him and says he's horrible is a person who would have no chance of watching him on an occasional basis unless they want to pay $7 a game.

Murphy is easily the best drafted defensive prospect playing in the OHL right now. Murphy was easily better than Sproul defensively this year, and Sproul's offensive output probaly has something to do with two factors. One Sault St Marie was an all-offense team, two Sproul played a rover style.

You're busy trying to pump up your own teams player when I doubt you've seen him. I said Murphy isn't horrible defensively and suddenly I think he's the "second coming of Brian Leetch"? Sproul has significantly more work to do than Murphy. Murphy plays top pairing minutes (Against the top lines) and top penalty killing minutes at the age of 19. Sproul plays sheltered minutes (Never against the top lines) and only sparadocily kills penalties at the age of 19.

You don't watch either player, yet you're so confident that Murphy is terrible and Sproul is amazing. I doubt you would have such a strong opinion if Sproul was drafted by the Islanders.

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Old
03-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
It's quite hard to argue Murphy's defense is terrible if you actually watch him. Every single person who attacks him and says he's horrible is a person who would have no chance of watching him on an occasional basis unless they want to pay $7 a game.
Oh no, my gosh, a whole $7???


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Old
03-23-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
Oh no, my gosh, a whole $7???

If you want to pay $7 for one game just to prove me right go ahead. Know that almost nobody on these boards does unless they have family.

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03-23-2013, 07:09 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
If you want to pay $7 for one game just to prove me right go ahead. Know that almost nobody on these boards does unless they have family.
I was being sarcastic, that's really cheap.

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Old
03-23-2013, 07:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
If you want to pay $7 for one game just to prove me right go ahead. Know that almost nobody on these boards does unless they have family.
I was being sarcastic, that's really cheap.

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Old
03-23-2013, 08:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
I was being sarcastic, that's really cheap.
You should hope you're being sarcastic about that statement. It either shows you don't grasp the value of money (Throwing away $7 to watch a blurry screen) or you're just picking a side for the sake of arguing.

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