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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:20 PM
  #351
deandebean
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Subban has the potential of carrying the play as he wishes. And for that, he will need to understand that a dominant player lets the play come to him. And then takes over. Not force it. It's a subtle line but it's one that guys like Gretz, Lemieux and others of the same ilk understood. It happens over time. I love the way Therrien is grooming him.

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03-23-2013, 12:26 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Gally11 View Post
Probably Therrien's way of saying he has potential to be elite.. aka Desharnais
good one

PK is a stud get out the money after next year

Like I said I have no problem paying top money to top players

the problem is these average players making 4-5 mil that kill the league

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03-23-2013, 12:48 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Flying Knee View Post
I never thought i would ever say this one day but......i think PK will be just as good , if not better , than Drew Doughty. Imho he's the steal of the 2007 draft
hands down th steal

I know people who know him ,he was a very **** , big attitude type , major reason why he slipped in my opinion

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03-23-2013, 12:56 PM
  #354
Kriss E
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Subban can me more consistent, and he can get smarter with some of his decisions. Guy's always reminded me of Chelios when he started out, at least in some ways. Just cause he's great doesn't mean he can't improve. Personally I really like the way Therrien's handled his young players. Eller is blooming under him, and Subban is mostly shining.
I'm not giving much credit to Therrien for Eller.
He was cast out after one game when 3/4 of the team was garbage. He was used as a 4th liner with grinders despite playing better than others. Even when DD's line was going nowhere, and even DD looked bad, Eller wasn't given a chance to play center with top 6 players. He was moved to the wing where he never looked comfortable. When it didn't work he was drop down to lower lines again. Injuries happened, and that moved Eller up into a higher position where he would finally center at least one good offensive player. Since then he's turned it up, often looking like our best center our there. However, he still plays with a grinder by his side, and still isn't getting PP ice time.
I'm sure Therrien is coaching him some things, just like every other coach does in the NHL. But I'm not too happy with the way Eller was used. We're lucky to have suffered some injuries and Eller got a chance to show his true potential.

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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
Agreed.

Michel Therrien is more worried about his potential. You can make 100 nice plays but when you contribute directly to a goal against then you have something to work on.

Subban has the offensive gift but if he can bring his defensive to the elite level then he will be a hell of a player, Norris candidate even.
Even Norris winners make mistakes and can improve.


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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
It's not even about the mistakes IMO, if like you used as an example you make 100 good plays... but you have the potential to make 200... then for that particular player 100 good plays isnt enough.
Well, I wouldn't double it. I don't think PK is only playing up to half his potential.
It's also not a reason to be harsher on him.

We don't know what goes on behind the doors, so it's tough to say how PK is really treated. But I sure hope that his performances don't go unnoticed.

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03-23-2013, 01:00 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not giving much credit to Therrien for Eller.
He was cast out after one game when 3/4 of the team was garbage. He was used as a 4th liner with grinders despite playing better than others. Even when DD's line was going nowhere, and even DD looked bad, Eller wasn't given a chance to play center with top 6 players. He was moved to the wing where he never looked comfortable. When it didn't work he was drop down to lower lines again. Injuries happened, and that moved Eller up into a higher position where he would finally center at least one good offensive player. Since then he's turned it up, often looking like our best center our there. However, he still plays with a grinder by his side, and still isn't getting PP ice time.
I'm sure Therrien is coaching him some things, just like every other coach does in the NHL. But I'm not too happy with the way Eller was used. We're lucky to have suffered some injuries and Eller got a chance to show his true potential.



Even Norris winners make mistakes and can improve.




Well, I wouldn't double it. I don't think PK is only playing up to half his potential.
It's also not a reason to be harsher on him.

We don't know what goes on behind the doors, so it's tough to say how PK is really treated. But I sure hope that his performances don't go unnoticed.
it's just an example.

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03-23-2013, 01:09 PM
  #356
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I like PK's attitude this year...therrien criticizes him for a bad penalty and even though he knows the reffs ****ed up he just owns it.....no excuses

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03-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #357
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
it's just an example.
The point stands. No need to be harsher on him.

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03-23-2013, 01:46 PM
  #358
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PK knows when he's made a dumb play at a critical time - its a learning curve - he'll just get better from this

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03-23-2013, 01:49 PM
  #359
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Points aren't everything, but PK is looking mighty fine on both sides of the rink to me. Scary part is he still can be better.
The best thing about Subban, imo, is the way he carries himself off the ice. The kid wants to learn, he takes the tough love in stride. To me, that's the making of a leader on a cup team. 24ch really gives us the privilege of seeing how these guys act behind the scenes. I love our coaching staff and am very impressed by PKs attitude. They're breaking all the bad habits out of him and he wants it. Markov is doing everything I could have hoped to teach and rub off on him as well.

He's only going to get better with experience and maturity. As he sees the same scenarios over and over, with great teachers around him, it'll become easier and easier for him to make the smart play ALL the time.

Let's not forget Daigneaults influence on him as well. Great stuff from him so far.

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Originally Posted by Flying Knee View Post
I never thought i would ever say this one day but......i think PK will be just as good , if not better , than Drew Doughty. Imho he's the steal of the 2007 draft
Clearly the steal of that draft. Not even close. And imagine that we have 3 2nds this year, in a boss draft!

Doughty is a great player but his intensity level leaves some to be desired imo. Playoff king though and has already done it all. I'd hesitate to say PK is or will be better, but that's no slight to PK as it really isn't out of the realm of possible in the future.

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03-23-2013, 01:55 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by dreamingofdrouin View Post
I like PK's attitude this year...therrien criticizes him for a bad penalty and even though he knows the reffs ****ed up he just owns it.....no excuses
It wasn't so much the call, it was that going for the bit highlight hit there wasn't necessary. Penalty or not, he took himself out of the play.

I noticed Therrien's tough love approach with PK in his post-game interviews. He doesn't give him much credit despite what are obviously moments of brilliance and basically domination on the point on the PP, albeit still mixed in with the odd fancy backhand no-look pass up the middle and still maybe holding on to the puck too long at the wrong times a bit. My main criticism of him last year was his play on the PP. He was way too predictable and either missed the net with his huge wind-ups or put it right on the defender's legs. This year he's mobile, uses his teammates a lot better, you don't know if he's going to shoot or pass and when he does shoot it almost always get through and is on net. Not only that, but his release is much quicker. His pass-shot last game that was tapped in is case and point what I'm getting at. He is becoming much, much smarter with the puck and thus much more dangerous.

Therrien is tough on him no doubt, but he seems to know what he's doing, and whatever it is he's doing it sure is working. PK is becoming a gem to watch, a more polished, smarter more effective defenseman who can do it all. Awesome player to watch.

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03-23-2013, 02:04 PM
  #361
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Weird thing about 2007 draft he wasn't even in some people's top 60 at all

http://insidecollegehockey.com/7Arch..._ranks0536.htm

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03-23-2013, 02:06 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Subban has the potential of carrying the play as he wishes. And for that, he will need to understand that a dominant player lets the play come to him. And then takes over. Not force it. It's a subtle line but it's one that guys like Gretz, Lemieux and others of the same ilk understood. It happens over time. I love the way Therrien is grooming him.
I don't think PK is going to be the mario of defense, but I agree with this. Once PK gains the experience and realizes that fine line, he will have reached his prime, because that's the only weakness I see in his game right now.

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03-23-2013, 03:36 PM
  #363
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
The best thing about Subban, imo, is the way he carries himself off the ice. The kid wants to learn, he takes the tough love in stride. To me, that's the making of a leader on a cup team. 24ch really gives us the privilege of seeing how these guys act behind the scenes. I love our coaching staff and am very impressed by PKs attitude. They're breaking all the bad habits out of him and he wants it. Markov is doing everything I could have hoped to teach and rub off on him as well.

He's only going to get better with experience and maturity. As he sees the same scenarios over and over, with great teachers around him, it'll become easier and easier for him to make the smart play ALL the time.

Let's not forget Daigneaults influence on him as well. Great stuff from him so far.
I think you are crediting this coaching staff a little too much.

Price had bad habits too, that changed. It's simply called maturity, and you develop it as you grow older.

I'm sure they are teaching him some things, that's what they're there for, but PK is PK.
Great players become great players no matter who their coaches are. Therrien was there for Crosby and Malkin, but I don't think you gotta credit him for them becoming such great players.
Not crediting Tocchet for Stamkos. Not crediting Julien for Chara or McClean for Karlsson, or Trotz for Weber/Suter, or Bowman for Lidstrom.

I mean, I'm sure all those coaches thought those players some things, but they would all have ended up being just as good under different ones.

PK managed to look good under Randy Cunneyworth. So I think it's fair to say most of his success comes from within. That's why plenty of people wanted us to lock him at a long term deal asap.

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03-23-2013, 03:48 PM
  #364
NHLFutureGuy3
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'm not giving much credit to Therrien for Eller.
He was cast out after one game when 3/4 of the team was garbage. He was used as a 4th liner with grinders despite playing better than others. Even when DD's line was going nowhere, and even DD looked bad, Eller wasn't given a chance to play center with top 6 players. He was moved to the wing where he never looked comfortable. When it didn't work he was drop down to lower lines again. Injuries happened, and that moved Eller up into a higher position where he would finally center at least one good offensive player. Since then he's turned it up, often looking like our best center our there. However, he still plays with a grinder by his side, and still isn't getting PP ice time.
I'm sure Therrien is coaching him some things, just like every other coach does in the NHL. But I'm not too happy with the way Eller was used. We're lucky to have suffered some injuries and Eller got a chance to show his true potential.




Even Norris winners make mistakes and can improve.




Well, I wouldn't double it. I don't think PK is only playing up to half his potential.
It's also not a reason to be harsher on him.

We don't know what goes on behind the doors, so it's tough to say how PK is really treated. But I sure hope that his performances don't go unnoticed.
Wow! Very well said. I totally agree that Eller succeeded in spite of Therrien and not because of Therrien. However, I honestly feel like Michel Therrien is doing what he needs to do politically to not piss anyone off. This is why Eller was given less of a chance than Desharnais on the team. Won't say much more than that on this topic though but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Man I wish we had Patrice Bergeron or Claude Giroux because Desharnais doesn't cut it for me.

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03-23-2013, 03:48 PM
  #365
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One thing is for sure, PK will cost the team a lot of money after next season. We could have got a discount had we just signed him long term this year. Very short-sighted move imo.

Watching PK the last two years it doesn't surprise me how good he currently is. He's a very special player with great talent. Not everyone is Sidney Crosby, it takes time for players to develop their game fully. PK will get there, no doubt, regardless of the staff egging him on.

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03-23-2013, 03:57 PM
  #366
Kriss E
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Wow! Very well said. I totally agree that Eller succeeded in spite of Therrien and not because of Therrien. However, I honestly feel like Michel Therrien is doing what he needs to do politically to not piss anyone off. This is why Eller was given less of a chance than Desharnais on the team. Won't say much more than that on this topic though but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Man I wish we had Patrice Bergeron or Claude Giroux because Desharnais doesn't cut it for me.
I do understand what you mean, however I would have tried DD to the wing when Eller's trial failed.

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03-23-2013, 04:14 PM
  #367
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I do understand what you mean, however I would have tried DD to the wing when Eller's trial failed.
Yeah might have worked.

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03-23-2013, 04:27 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The point stands. No need to be harsher on him.
as you said yourself, no oe knows what happens behind closed doors, so we don't know if the coaching staff are harsher on him.

More demaning ? probably, and that's a good thing... when you have more to offer, more will be asked of you. Perfectly normal.

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03-23-2013, 04:27 PM
  #369
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doty
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03-23-2013, 05:37 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think you are crediting this coaching staff a little too much.

Price had bad habits too, that changed. It's simply called maturity, and you develop it as you grow older.

I'm sure they are teaching him some things, that's what they're there for, but PK is PK.
Great players become great players no matter who their coaches are. Therrien was there for Crosby and Malkin, but I don't think you gotta credit him for them becoming such great players.
Not crediting Tocchet for Stamkos. Not crediting Julien for Chara or McClean for Karlsson, or Trotz for Weber/Suter, or Bowman for Lidstrom.

I mean, I'm sure all those coaches thought those players some things, but they would all have ended up being just as good under different ones.

PK managed to look good under Randy Cunneyworth. So I think it's fair to say most of his success comes from within. That's why plenty of people wanted us to lock him at a long term deal asap.
You can choose to believe that coaching doesn't make a difference if you'd like, even though I find the notion ridiculous. It's one thing to be a good player, it's another to be a good player in all phases of the game, at all times. A good coach will get the best out of his players and teach them how to play the game the right way, and that goes for all sports.

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03-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #371
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doty
2012-13Los Angeles Kings NHL 30 1 11 12

pk
2012-13Montreal Canadiens NHL 24 9 13 22

Doughty has been terrible since holding out, and getting his money...glad the Habs held tight on PK, but it will cost them dearly on his next contract....probably 45M for 7-8 seasons...

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03-23-2013, 05:42 PM
  #372
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If we sign P.K. to an extension today, we're not getting him for a penny less than $7m. Let's face it.
no issue at all at 7 mil

u pay your stars period

my problem is Gio making 5 , DD making 3.5 , Gorges nearly 4 , 12.5 mil for average to slightly above average play , all are replaceable

pk u cant replace

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03-23-2013, 05:46 PM
  #373
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Doughty has been terrible since holding out, and getting his money...glad the Habs held tight on PK, but it will cost them dearly on his next contract....probably 45M for 7-8 seasons...
hold on , kings won a cup with doughty playing out of his mind

we did the right thing with a bridge deal, pk would of wanted 6 on a long term deal

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03-23-2013, 06:11 PM
  #374
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hold on , kings won a cup with doughty playing out of his mind

we did the right thing with a bridge deal, pk would of wanted 6 on a long term deal
He had a surreal playoff run, which I suppose is all that matters in the end..

If you look strictly at the regular season last year and so far this season, Subban has been the better of the two.

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03-23-2013, 06:45 PM
  #375
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He had a surreal playoff run, which I suppose is all that matters in the end..

If you look strictly at the regular season last year and so far this season, Subban has been the better of the two.
absolutely but if PK can hoist a cup like he did nice

also Doughty might of been the best player in the Olympics , clearly he got his money after that

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