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Old
03-23-2013, 09:32 PM
  #326
Procrastinator
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
You make 100% sense...most of the people on the Rangers board don't...

Lombardi is not fool...Sather is.

We will get Boyle from San Jose...he will come here and 90% of this board will think it is a great move and he will suck...it is the same thing every year.

Guys clamouring for Brad Richards for 3 years...we get him, sign him to a retard deal, every Ranger fans wants to blow him for taking a "cap friendly" deal...has a decent
1st year, now sucks and we have him just another 7 years.

Until the Rangers get rid of Sather....we will be the same half ass run organization.

We had a good thing going but Sather and Torts totally under estimated the importance of the bottom six guys we had last year and brought in a new crop and they have all sucked...we went for a rugged group to the biggest bunch of ******* in the league and 90% of this board will say that being rugged is overrated.
Spoken like a true gentlemen.

We should be looking to move richards before gab.


Last edited by Procrastinator: 03-23-2013 at 09:34 PM. Reason: forgot to add comment
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Old
03-23-2013, 09:36 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
Spoken like a true gentlemen.

We should be looking to move richards before gab.
We won't ever trade Richards. If he retires we pay most of the cap hit. He will be the 2nd buyout after next season

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
Spoken like a true gentlemen.

We should be looking to move richards before gab.
def not dude. with the new cba, if he retires we're stuck with his dead weight cap.

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
its not torts.. Torts coaches the team, provides some imput of how he likes his players and its glens job to build a team around how the coach coaches..the issue is glen playing hard ball with our UFAs/RFAs..

I am surprised our RFA's off ELC havent held out.. especially when our players.. MDZ, Callahan, Girardi, Dubi etc.. dont ask for more $$$. when around the league you have doughty making 7m, Meyers making 12m salary this year (5m cap) etc..

But most other teams would give raises but slats goes in the opposite directions gives players salarys lower then what they should be making based off performances.. did that with feds, mitchell, and i think most teams wouldve given prust the salary he commanded.. bc its not just stats, which rangers fans cant understand but their attitude and what they bring to the team.. intangibles are huge and mean a lot as well as points.. he completely abolished the bottom 6, but the real issue is the players we got havent stepped up and bought into torts.. this goes to show you the top 6 is just as important as the bottom 6.. we need to retool and build a team not sign every UFA available (Big names).. i wish we did the nash trade but didnt trade Dubi and signed prust, bc both those players wouldve been our "Glue" to hold that bottom 6 in check..
the best thing sather ever did for this franchise was bring in clark. Clark had more of an influence building our current pool talent then sather. only thing i could remember sather doing intelligent was stealing McD from MTL.

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03-23-2013, 09:42 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
We won't ever trade Richards. If he retires we pay most of the cap hit. He will be the 2nd buyout after next season
If we trade him to another team and he retires we're still on the hook for his cap hit?

was this a loophole rule?

please explain.

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:43 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
If we trade him to another team and he retires we're still on the hook for his cap hit?

was this a loophole rule?

please explain.
New cba

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:32 AM
  #332
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truthfully gaborik is coming off a serious injury. do we attribute the poor production to that and his lack of a camp/minimal offseason training? maybe-- maybe not... but it probably drops the value a good chunk for him to come back this questionably after that surgery. his shot certainly has not been top notch.

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:40 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
We won't ever trade Richards. If he retires we pay most of the cap hit. He will be the 2nd buyout after next season
that sounds like a horrible rule. guess it will prevent or at least make gms think twice about handing out stupid contracts

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:42 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
truthfully gaborik is coming off a serious injury. do we attribute the poor production to that and his lack of a camp/minimal offseason training? maybe-- maybe not... but it probably drops the value a good chunk for him to come back this questionably after that surgery. his shot certainly has not been top notch.
yeah man, I don't remember the last time we saw a trademark Gaborik SNIPE.
This is still my favorite Gabby's goal as a Ranger.






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Old
03-24-2013, 08:40 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
truthfully gaborik is coming off a serious injury. do we attribute the poor production to that and his lack of a camp/minimal offseason training? maybe-- maybe not... but it probably drops the value a good chunk for him to come back this questionably after that surgery. his shot certainly has not been top notch.
Maybe we can attribute it to playing a position he's never been comfortable playing, and the coach not switching him to his natural role?

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Old
03-24-2013, 08:41 AM
  #336
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Seriously guys, LA has no interest in Gaborik at the prices some of you are throwing around. Plus his game just isn't made for the Kings ground attack offense. LA just gets in on the puck and pound the crap out of other teams, creates turnover and scores. Every player does this.
So something around Tanner Pearson + who is not on the active roster according to capgeek would be worthwhile? Or no?

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03-24-2013, 08:47 AM
  #337
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It could be a number of things.

1. He is 31, and while that isn't set for a full fledged decline, often it knocks off some goals from yearly numbers of goal scorers. I don't think people feel Bossy would have hit 1000 goals in his career.

2. He is coming off surgery and looks tentative.

3. He is plying an unfamiliar wing and seems to really be in a funk about that whole situation.

4. My impression was, when he signed with us after a year of Drury, Naslund, and Zherdev as our top line that he wanted to be "the guy" offensively in every situation. Like it or not, he is now in a Malkin situation to Crosby's Nash. (They should start a band)

Ultimately, what it boils down to is do you have a trade that can make the rangers better this and next year, and if the answer is no then we should simply keep him.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:35 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
that sounds like a horrible rule. guess it will prevent or at least make gms think twice about handing out stupid contracts
The rule was put in place basically as a potential punishment for teams that took advantage of the loophole in the prior cba and handed out heavily front loaded contracts. Those are the only contracts where it's an issue. So Luongo, Richards, Hossa, Kovalchuk. Those types of deals.

In the first 6 years of Richards' contract, he makes 12 mil, 12 mil, 9 mil, 8.5 mil, 8.5 mil and 7 mil. His cap hit is 6.67 mil. If he were to retire after the 6th year, we would have paid him an average of 9.5 mil per year, but saved almost 3 mil per year on the cap. That's about 17 mil in cap savings. The recapture rule would make us repay that.

Even if Richards is traded to another team and then retires, we'd still be on the hook for a good portion of that penalty based on the years he played here and the cap savings we got. That's why most people believe that we will use our 2nd amnesty buyout on Richards, either this summer or next. More likely next summer IMO.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:46 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The rule was put in place basically as a potential punishment for teams that took advantage of the loophole in the prior cba and handed out heavily front loaded contracts. Those are the only contracts where it's an issue. So Luongo, Richards, Hossa, Kovalchuk. Those types of deals.

In the first 6 years of Richards' contract, he makes 12 mil, 12 mil, 9 mil, 8.5 mil, 8.5 mil and 7 mil. His cap hit is 6.67 mil. If he were to retire after the 6th year, we would have paid him an average of 9.5 mil per year, but saved almost 3 mil per year on the cap. That's about 17 mil in cap savings. The recapture rule would make us repay that.

Even if Richards is traded to another team and then retires, we'd still be on the hook for a good portion of that penalty based on the years he played here and the cap savings we got. That's why most people believe that we will use our 2nd amnesty buyout on Richards, either this summer or next. More likely next summer IMO.
i wasnt aware of that rule. he has to be the 2nd amnesty. that contract mess combined with his mediocre play is scary for 7 more years. i like richie and i dont want to see him go but that is a contract from hell.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:51 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Procrastinator View Post
the best thing sather ever did for this franchise was bring in clark. Clark had more of an influence building our current pool talent then sather. only thing i could remember sather doing intelligent was stealing McD from MTL.
I absolutely agree his pedigree is off the charts and since glen is recovering from his prostate cancer etc.. i hope this puts life into perspective that hes not young anymore and hands over the reigns to gordie.. the guy is a hockey junkie and was a big part of Boston front office and involved with drafting kessel, bringing in seguin/hamilton i believe. Hes the aire apparent to take over once glen decides to retire.. the guy simply knows hockey inside and out.. and with his short time here he drafted and help build our current core..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Bingo.

Last year the team was a family. Sather went hardball with Prust and he bolted. I'd be willing to bet if Sather was a little softer with his negotiating techniques and actually treated his players like he cared, Prust would still be here...and for less than the $2.5 mil he's currently getting in Montreal. Prust left because Montreal told him he'd be a big part of the team and made him feel wanted. People underestimate just how much that means to players - especially 3rd and 4th line guys.
this is why slats pisses me offf bc the guy pays UFAs like no other bc he likes proven players.. ALA NY Yankees.. and look at them this year they have no good young players to replace these often injured old ass players, which is sad, when theyre trying to get david lee and chipper jones out of retirement to play, now thats SAD!!.. i rather overpay on homegrown players and players that really established themselves here like prust then overpay on these big name athletes.. look around the league and see how many guys out there play like Prust.. i think hes a diamond in the rough and torts really made him the player who he is.. its sad that our gm plays hard ball with current members of the team but when its a big fish in the pond he gives them the key to MSG.. just sad, simply sad!!

championships are built not bought.. we have to keep guys like hags, kreider, step, nash,callahan, miller mcd staal, girardi mdz and hank ofcourse as long as possible.. we have to build a team and stop trading players like these bc its hard finding players to bring what they have.. you have to add to the core not keep trading the core away.. i wouldnt trade gabs unless we get blown away for a trade, otherwise keep him and get role players around the league like clowe, torres etc and ship pyatt, asham, powe out of town bc theyre to soft and serve no purpose.. i think haley with guidance of torts could turn into our new prust..

but please stop blaming our coach, when our gm is strangling the organization..


Last edited by dethomas07: 03-24-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old
03-24-2013, 10:24 AM
  #341
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Got offered this deal in a sim. Would you do it as a Ranger GM? - forget washington for a sec

To NYR - Alex Ovechkin
To Caps - JT Miller, Chris Kreider, Brad Richards, Michael Del Zotto & 2014 1st Round Pick.

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:26 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Got offered this deal in a sim. Would you do it as a Ranger GM? - forget washington for a sec

To NYR - Alex Ovechkin
To Caps - JT Miller, Chris Kreider, Brad Richards, Michael Del Zotto & 2014 1st Round Pick.
Nope.

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:26 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Got offered this deal in a sim. Would you do it as a Ranger GM? - forget washington for a sec

To NYR - Alex Ovechkin
To Caps - JT Miller, Chris Kreider, Brad Richards, Michael Del Zotto & 2014 1st Round Pick.
I'd hang up the phone immediately. I like watching the New York Rangers. After this trade, we'd be icing the CT Whale.

Also, our center depth sucks. Lose Richards and Miller and now its practically a war crime.

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:54 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Got offered this deal in a sim. Would you do it as a Ranger GM? - forget washington for a sec

To NYR - Alex Ovechkin
To Caps - JT Miller, Chris Kreider, Brad Richards, Michael Del Zotto & 2014 1st Round Pick.
NO WAY IN HELL. I'm guessing George McPhee offered you that trade proposal. The only good thing you'd want to include in that offer is Richards, and Washington won't want him.

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03-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Got offered this deal in a sim. Would you do it as a Ranger GM? - forget washington for a sec

To NYR - Alex Ovechkin
To Caps - JT Miller, Chris Kreider, Brad Richards, Michael Del Zotto & 2014 1st Round Pick.
if washington keeps all of ovi's salary i would still say no

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:16 AM
  #346
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stop stop stop... hahah why trade youth..we have the pieces already, we dont need drastic measures.. we need to add players not substitute half our team to get someone..

key depth guys that a physical and add toughness, also that can pitch in here and there....

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03-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #347
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Maybe we can attribute it to playing a position he's never been comfortable playing, and the coach not switching him to his natural role?
That sounds like looking for a way to blame Torts for Gaborik's shortcoming because Torts is the current go-to villain on the boards.

Gaborik has played RW this season too without much success. Also, I believe his game against Boston, easily his most effective performance IMO, was on the LW. He doesn't have the quick first step he used to have. His shot doesn't have the zip it had even last year. Those things aren't Torts' fault. Gaborik is having a poor season.

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03-24-2013, 12:07 PM
  #348
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Wanna bet that they don't trade Ryan Kesler? Wanna bet that no team will offer them something this season that will incline them to trade Ryan Kesler?

Why would anyone engage in such a thing, when the answer, again, is eminently clear? The adult thing to do would be to accept that such a conversation is a total waste of time, since it has no basis in reality.

This thread is called the trade speculation thread. What you're looking for is the trade wishlist thread. You WANT the Canucks to trade Ryan Kesler, despite the fact that it is more than obvious that the Canucks WON'T trade Ryan Kesler. Not anytime in the near future, anyway.

Once again, excellent job of taking into consideration the needs of the other team. Clearly, Martin Biron will be a big help for Vancouver's cup run as he sits in the press box in the role of third goaltender.

Let's maximize our profit by trading for Sidney Crosby, then. I would consider all options for that, and I demand that you look at it - all of it - with an open mind.

Brilliant deductive skills, bern. IF there is enough of an offer on the table, than any team would trade any player. Yes, the Lightning would probably trade Steven Stamkos if they were getting Sidney Crosby back. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that such a thing will ever happen. Much in the same way, while the Canucks could potentially trade Kesler if the return was big enough, they won't, because there will be no return that is big enough offered.

Thus, I again say: wanna bet that they don't trade Kesler? How much do you want to bet that Ryan Kesler won't be traded this season? It doesn't even have to be money, just something board related. Like, for example, if Kesler is traded, I'll go one year without proposing any trades on the forum. If Kesler isn't traded, you go one year without proposing trades.

Deal?

I reject the proposed wager on grounds it is predicated upon active discussions that a high enough return can and will be offered to Vancouver. These are factors beyond any members control, and I'm not sucker enough to fall into the trap.

The discussion I am fostering is IF such a deal can come from Rangers, and even should be made given Kesler as 'damaged' although this does not appear to be critically serious (like return from Sauer-esque concussion).

I'm not adept at making the link, but on the big trade board right now is a thread about "untouchables". Three Vancouver fans have all indicated Kesler COULD be moved if the price is right. Not one said, no not under any condition would Kesler be moved.

As to Biron, if such a deal were not last minute, theoretically biron could be useful with probably Luongo being dealt, possibly for help this year, possibly at C.


So why are you SO adamant about trying to figure out if NY can/should make that offer?

It's probably cause to ensure the deal, it would probably have to be something including:
Stepan + Gaborik +
for
Kesler + and HUGE compensation.

I'd want to see what that is.
After that, you may be right, it might not be huge enough.

But with an open mind, I want to confirm that.

I respect your opinion regardless of agreement and you certainly don't have to agree with me, but try to have an open mind.

This team needs do all it can to improve with better assets.

Stepan + Gaborik +
for
Kesler + and HUGE compensation.

may or may not be feasible, but it is appropriate to explore.

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #349
dethomas07
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I reject the proposed wager on grounds it is predicated upon active discussions that a high enough return can and will be offered to Vancouver. These are factors beyond any members control, and I'm not sucker enough to fall into the trap.

The discussion I am fostering is IF such a deal can come from Rangers, and even should be made given Kesler as 'damaged' although this does not appear to be critically serious (like return from Sauer-esque concussion).

I'm not adept at making the link, but on the big trade board right now is a thread about "untouchables". Three Vancouver fans have all indicated Kesler COULD be moved if the price is right. Not one said, no not under any condition would Kesler be moved.

As to Biron, if such a deal were not last minute, theoretically biron could be useful with probably Luongo being dealt, possibly for help this year, possibly at C.


So why are you SO adamant about trying to figure out if NY can/should make that offer?

It's probably cause to ensure the deal, it would probably have to be something including:
Stepan + Gaborik +
for
Kesler + and HUGE compensation.

I'd want to see what that is.
After that, you may be right, it might not be huge enough.

But with an open mind, I want to confirm that.

I respect your opinion regardless of agreement and you certainly don't have to agree with me, but try to have an open mind.

This team needs do all it can to improve with better assets.

Stepan + Gaborik +
for
Kesler + and HUGE compensation.

may or may not be feasible, but it is appropriate to explore.
it is not appropriate to explore.. thats been our MO of the rangers for the longest time.. trade talented youth for proven players and have it back fire... gabs+futures for kesler fine but NO WAY do i trade youth and proven players.. you have to build a team not trade every good young assets for an often injured talent.. we made our big trade by getting nash.. now start to rebuild bottom 6 and light a fire under the ass of richards and gabs..

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03-24-2013, 12:17 PM
  #350
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Apparently Calgary is going to make some big changes at the deadline.

Forget Iginla - I'd go after Tanguay. Playmaking LW, 19 points in 24 games this season, and a $3.5M cap hit for the next 3 years. Only downside is he's 33, but his contract is fairly cheap for what he provides.
I want to second that motion, but I'm genuinely concerned as to how little he has left in the tank.

But hell yeah, forget Iginla.

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