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The 2013 NHL Entry Draft

View Poll Results: What type of player should we draft?
Powerforward [Centre/Winger] 10 5.92%
Two-Way Forward 1 0.59%
Playmaking Centre 8 4.73%
Goalscoring Winger 64 37.87%
Defensive-Defenseman 16 9.47%
Offensive-Defenseman 10 5.92%
Two-Way Defenseman 47 27.81%
Goaler 0 0%
Trade our 1st for an upgrade 4 2.37%
Other [Smallish Character Centres] 9 5.33%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:19 AM
  #726
SuperTheGreat
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Agree with the hatred for the red wings. HATE them, always will. Rivalry dead or alive...doesn't matter. HATE them. However, here's a couple of thoughts on the 8 point game. I remember a guy named Wolski who tore up juniors game in, game out. He never was an integral piece to any playoff run, never led anyone anywhere. I also remember Sam Gagne's super 8 point game in the NHL. He isn't taking Edmonton on his shoulders anywhere either. All I can hope for is a long, downhill slide for Detroit. We tried to "re-load" with FAs and convince ourselves that our highly touted prospects would fill the holes left. We made the playoffs for a few years and even won a series or two. Looking back though, it's easy to see that it was the beginning of our descent. Lidstrom's retirement is square one in the same decline for Detroit. They'll hold on for a few seasons. They'll make the playoffs, maybe even get to the 2nd round here and there. They'll convince themselves that their prospects are world class and that their cupboards are full. They probably will overpay for a few FAs, too. I'm gonna love the ride. All the way to the bottom of the hill.

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03-23-2013, 10:47 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by SuperTheGreat View Post
Agree with the hatred for the red wings. HATE them, always will. Rivalry dead or alive...doesn't matter. HATE them. However, here's a couple of thoughts on the 8 point game. I remember a guy named Wolski who tore up juniors game in, game out. He never was an integral piece to any playoff run, never led anyone anywhere. I also remember Sam Gagne's super 8 point game in the NHL. He isn't taking Edmonton on his shoulders anywhere either. All I can hope for is a long, downhill slide for Detroit. We tried to "re-load" with FAs and convince ourselves that our highly touted prospects would fill the holes left. We made the playoffs for a few years and even won a series or two. Looking back though, it's easy to see that it was the beginning of our descent. Lidstrom's retirement is square one in the same decline for Detroit. They'll hold on for a few seasons. They'll make the playoffs, maybe even get to the 2nd round here and there. They'll convince themselves that their prospects are world class and that their cupboards are full. They probably will overpay for a few FAs, too. I'm gonna love the ride. All the way to the bottom of the hill.
Sorry but not true.

He's lead Caps tank pretty successfully this season.

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03-23-2013, 10:56 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
while that is true in most cases. take a look at the link seph posted a few posts above yours on the comparison.
those stats tell you a lot.
Again it's all basic stats. Just look at shooting percentage. One is incredibly high and not sustainable at the pro levels. In the Q, Drouin can dangle and hold onto the puck much much longer and even get closer to the prime areas much more often than say the W,O,A or N hockey leagues. You are going to get plenty of chances to score a ton against the weaker opponents so how much production comes against better competition? We will know more the deeper those two get in the playoffs but bring Drouin's shooting percentage down he slots in with Mac point wise. Both are great players so its up to the team drafting them.

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03-23-2013, 11:03 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by SuperTheGreat View Post
Agree with the hatred for the red wings. HATE them, always will. Rivalry dead or alive...doesn't matter. HATE them. However, here's a couple of thoughts on the 8 point game. I remember a guy named Wolski who tore up juniors game in, game out. He never was an integral piece to any playoff run, never led anyone anywhere. I also remember Sam Gagne's super 8 point game in the NHL. He isn't taking Edmonton on his shoulders anywhere either. All I can hope for is a long, downhill slide for Detroit. We tried to "re-load" with FAs and convince ourselves that our highly touted prospects would fill the holes left. We made the playoffs for a few years and even won a series or two. Looking back though, it's easy to see that it was the beginning of our descent. Lidstrom's retirement is square one in the same decline for Detroit. They'll hold on for a few seasons. They'll make the playoffs, maybe even get to the 2nd round here and there. They'll convince themselves that their prospects are world class and that their cupboards are full. They probably will overpay for a few FAs, too. I'm gonna love the ride. All the way to the bottom of the hill.
So you are not waiting for the awesomeness of Abdelkader, mcCollum and Ryno?

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #730
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Heard is the type of player that will be a heart-and-soul guy for a deep playoff push. He'll do all the little things right in a bottom-6 role. He's got the work ethic and drive to improve as a player and will be effective in almost any situation his future NHL coaches will put him in.

Frk is an offensive support player, that doesn't really bring much above average things to the table besides a wicked shot. He either plays top-6 offense role or he's ineffective. Work ethic is a question mark and he's incredibly streaky, as pure goalscorers tend to be.

We've been burned by guys with a ton of talent but limited drive/work ethic before (Wolski, Stewart, Hensick, Arnason, Quincey) so I see why management puts a lot more stock into character, determination and work ethic rather than just pure skill and talent. And I'm 100% okay with that.

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:24 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by GeoffL19 View Post
Heard is the type of player that will be a heart-and-soul guy for a deep playoff push. He'll do all the little things right in a bottom-6 role. He's got the work ethic and drive to improve as a player and will be effective in almost any situation his future NHL coaches will put him in.

Frk is an offensive support player, that doesn't really bring much above average things to the table besides a wicked shot. He either plays top-6 offense role or he's ineffective. Work ethic is a question mark and he's incredibly streaky, as pure goalscorers tend to be.

We've been burned by guys with a ton of talent but limited drive/work ethic before (Wolski, Stewart, Hensick, Arnason, Quincey) so I see why management puts a lot more stock into character, determination and work ethic rather than just pure skill and talent. And I'm 100% okay with that.
Pretty much the M.O. of the Preds scouting department.

I don't mind if the front office is putting a little more emphasis into developing role players though. I think that's one area where they've fallen a bit short in the past.


Last edited by Av-merican: 03-23-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
03-23-2013, 03:25 PM
  #732
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Pretty much the M.O. of the Preds scouting department.
I would like to add that Avs scouting team seem to find players with those strengths that Geoff listed above, but with high offensive potential (Meurs, Bourke, Landeskog, Duchene, Blandisi, Condon), something the Predators scouting team is lacking.

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Old
03-23-2013, 04:31 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Sorry but not true.

He's lead Caps tank pretty successfully this season.
I stand corrected. Apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
So you are not waiting for the awesomeness of Abdelkader, mcCollum and Ryno?
Isn't that awesomeness already here? Get your sleds!

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Old
03-23-2013, 10:39 PM
  #734
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Just because I don't remember this being brought up, sorry if it has.

This is a list of Defenders drafted in the top 5 going quite a ways back.

Ok so Defense #1 over all...

2006 - EJ
1996 - Phillips
1995 - Berard (Never heard of him...)
1994 - Jovanovski
1992 - Hamelik
1982 - Kluzak
1979 - Ramage
1976 - R. Green
1974 - Joly
1973 - Potvin
1967 - Pagnutti
1966 - Gibbs

2nd over all isn't much better, but it does have Pronger

2012 - Murray
2009 - Hedman
2008 - Doughty
1996 - Zyuzin???
1995 - Redden
1994 - Tverdivski
1993 - Pronger
1980 - Babych

3rd over all still isn't much better

2010 - Gudbranson
2008 - Bogosian
2005 - J. Johnson
2004 - Barker
2002 - Bouwmeester
1998 - Stuart
1995 - Aki-Petteri Berg
1992 - Mike Rathje
1991 - Scott Niedermayer
1988 - Curtis Leschyshyn
1987 - Glen Wesley
1985 - Craig Wolanin

4th over all?

2012 - Griffin Reinhart
2011 - Adam Larsson
2008 - Alex Pietrangelo
2007 - Thomas Hickey
2002 - Joni Pitkanen
2000 - Rostislav Klesla
1998 - Bryan Allen
1991 - Scott Lachance
1987 - Wayne McBean
1986 - Zarley Zalapski
1984 - Al Iafrate
1980 - Larry Murphy

5th Over all?

2012 - Morgan Rielly
2008 - Luke Schenn
2007 - Karl Alzner
2002 - Ryan Whitney
1998 - Vitali Vishnevsky
1997 - Eric Brewer
1996 - Richard Jackman
1992 - Darius Kasparaitis
1991 - Aaron Ward
1987 - Chris Joseph
1986 - Shawn Anderson
1985 - Dana Murzyn
1984 - Petr Svoboda
1981 - Joe Cirella
1980 - Darren Veitch

Some of these guys are still seriously unproven, but historically it seems to be a crap shoot as to if your actually getting a star caliber defender or not.

There seems to be more 'busts' the closer they get to #1 over all. I've been a NHL fan since around 1995, so I am not super well versed on some of the older names. But I'm not totally clueless either, some of these older guys I remember being talked about as good players.

I'll take Drouin... This list scares the crap out of me when compared to how many hall of fame caliber forwards are selected in the top 5.

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03-23-2013, 10:46 PM
  #735
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Jones would be a no brainer for me if he was LH. Although some have said that he has played on that side, it does not necessarily translate to the NHL level. Also, as all centers do not translate to wing, I would much rather take Mac and hope for a Bruins style roster with a few centers who shift to wing. just as I'd like to try Stats on Dutch and PAP's LW. DROIN would look great on LW too.

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03-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #736
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Jones would be a no brainer for me if he was LH. Although some have said that he has played on that side, it does not necessarily translate to the NHL level. Also, as all centers do not translate to wing, I would much rather take Mac and hope for a Bruins style roster with a few centers who shift to wing. just as I'd like to try Stats on Dutch and PAP's LW. DROIN would look great on LW too.
Between Mack & Drouin, I think Drouin is the better and smarter player IMO.

Drouin's play-making ability and all around game would be disgusting with Duchene & Parenteau. That would be a legit top 6 group.

Drouin - Duchene - Parenteau

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie/Someone else

(Jones played the left side throughout the WJC with Trouba on his right. Both ES and PP, but he plays on the right side in Portland. Top of the umbrella on the PP in Portland as well.)

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03-23-2013, 10:52 PM
  #737
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Since right now we're in second let's look at that list. Pronger as an all time great. Redden was a star and one of the league's better puck-handling/smooth-skating dmen before his style of play destroyed his body completely. Doughty's a great young dman who just played a crucial part to his team's cup run. Hedman's taken the step to become a legit stud on the top pairing and Murray looks very talented. Can't comment on the two guy's on either side of Redden, but outside of them that's a good collection of top pairing players, some of whom have been amongst the best Dmen in the league at their best. I'd gladly take one of those guys on this team next to EJ.

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03-23-2013, 10:58 PM
  #738
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Since right now we're in second let's look at that list. Pronger as an all time great. Redden was a star and one of the league's better puck-handling/smooth-skating dmen before his style of play destroyed his body completely. Doughty's a great young dman who just played a crucial part to his team's cup run. Hedman's taken the step to become a legit stud on the top pairing and Murray looks very talented. Can't comment on the two guy's on either side of Redden, but outside of them that's a good collection of top pairing players, some of whom have been amongst the best Dmen in the league at their best. I'd gladly take one of those guys on this team next to EJ.
Over Malkin? Jordan & Eric Staal? Bobby Ryan?

Jones is also being touted by all scouting services and everyone with an opinion as the #1 prospect in this years draft. If Florida does not take him @ #1 then they are doing it based off of needs. Not the scouting reports...

When you compare D taken #1 over all to forwards taken #1 over all it's heavily weighted in the forwards favor.

I'd be really curious as to what Seph's opinion on this is...


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03-23-2013, 11:07 PM
  #739
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Over Malkin? Jordan & Eric Staal? Bobby Ryan?

Jones is also being touted by all scouting services and everyone with an opinion as the #1 prospect in this years draft. If Florida does not take him @ #1 then they are doing it based off of needs. Not the scouting reports...

When you compare D taken #1 over all to forwards taken #1 over all it's heavily weighted in the forwards favor.

I'd be really curious as to what Seph's opinion on this is...
We'll see. This time two years ago Adam Larson and Huberdeau were both ahead of RNH and Landy for the battle to go first overall.

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03-23-2013, 11:08 PM
  #740
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The only defensemen drafted 1st overall in the past 30 drafts were Roman Hamrlik, Ed Jovanovski, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, and Erik Johnson.

Hamrlik, Jovanovski, and Phillips have all played 1,000+ games in their NHL careers (and counting). Berard's career was marred by a major eye injury. The jury is still out on Johnson.

Of course, none of this has any impact on the upcoming draft. A team is just as likely to draft the next Denis Potvin as they are the next Bryan Berard.

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03-23-2013, 11:15 PM
  #741
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The only defensemen drafted 1st overall in the past 30 drafts were Roman Hamrlik, Ed Jovanovski, Bryan Berard, Chris Phillips, and Erik Johnson.

Hamrlik, Jovanovski, and Phillips have all played 1,000+ games in their NHL careers (and counting). Berard's career was marred by a major eye injury. The jury is still out on Johnson.

Of course, none of this has any impact on the upcoming draft. A team is just as likely to draft the next Denis Potvin as they are the next Bryan Berard.
Those guys are all 'good' defenders but their not exactly Weber, Chara, Karlsson, Suter, Letang, Bourque, and Blakes either...

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03-23-2013, 11:25 PM
  #742
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All three of them were excellent top pairing guy even they weren't perennial Norris favorites. Stick any one of them next to EJ and we have an excellent defense to go with our great young goalie and 1-2-3 punch up front. With a real coach that's a team that could win a couple cups when they all grow up.

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03-23-2013, 11:27 PM
  #743
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All three of them were excellent top pairing guy even they weren't perennial Norris favorites. Stick any one of them next to EJ and we have an excellent defense to go with our great young goalie and 1-2-3 punch up front. With a real coach that's a team that could win a couple cups when they all grow up.
Fair enough, but can you honesty say you would take any of those guys over Stamkos and the majority of other forwards picked #1 over all?

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03-23-2013, 11:30 PM
  #744
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Fair enough, but can you honesty say you would take any of those guys over Stamkos and the majority of other forwards picked #1 over all?
I'd take them over Hall or Seguin. Not that that has anything to do with Jones/Drouin/MacKinnon

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03-23-2013, 11:42 PM
  #745
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I guess its a matter of seeking immediate impact versus future impact. Unless Jones/EJ is going to switch sides and you are projecting that as our top pair next year.
And our 123 punch of the middle is pretty shaky at this point until the extensions are signed.

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03-24-2013, 03:37 AM
  #746
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NHL teams should always draft for the long term. Really bad and really good teams are always unpredictable because they're desperate to take the next step, so selecting a player to compensate for present day needs is illogical.

Flash back to the mid-1990's: The Quebec Nordiques and eventually Colorado Avalanche sported a roster which had lots of high end draft pedigree within.

RW Owen Nolan was a former 1st Overall pick and franchise power forward; D Curtis Leschyshyn was a former 3rd Overall pick and only 25 years old entering the Avalanche's 1996 Championship season; D Craig Wolanin was formerly the 3rd Overall pick of New Jersey who the Nords traded Peter Stastny for; G Jocelyn Thibault was a former 10th Overall pick by Quebec who went 12-2-2 as a 19-year-old in 1995. With the exception of Wolanin, whose potential was tapped by the mid-90's, it sure seemed like the organization had great foundation players across the board.

Yet, starting from the quarter mark of the '96 season to the quarter mark of the '97 season, all four players were sent packing. It's harder to put things in perspective due to Colorado's decidedly mediocre performance in the 1995 NHL Entry Draft, but imagine if the Avalanche were staring Jarome Iginla in the face and said "We don't need another power forward, we have Owen Nolan."

Better examples: Montreal drafting Carey Price 5th Overall in 2005 despite having All-Star goalie Jose Theodore; St. Louis drafting Alex Pietrangelo 4th Overall in 2008 instead of Nikita Filatov despite having Eric Brewer and Erik Johnson.

Just my two cents. I think if Colorado likes a forward, they should go forward. Seth Jones is definitely the most intriguing to me, but if they take him I hope it's more about affection for the player than it is trying to fill a (glaring) need.

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03-24-2013, 10:17 AM
  #747
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Damn, I hate the Avs doing so bad, but hopefully this is the last young piece needed before the rebuild is done.

I doubt the Avs will get the choice, but its fun thinking of the strength any of the top three could provide to the Avs.

Landeskog-Drouin-McGinn as the left wingers.

or

Duchene-O'Reilly-Stastny-Mackinnon as the centers.

or

EJ-Jones-Barrie down the right side.

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03-24-2013, 10:26 AM
  #748
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Some of these guys are still seriously unproven, but historically it seems to be a crap shoot as to if your actually getting a star caliber defender or not.

There seems to be more 'busts' the closer they get to #1 over all. I've been a NHL fan since around 1995, so I am not super well versed on some of the older names. But I'm not totally clueless either, some of these older guys I remember being talked about as good players.

I'll take Drouin... This list scares the crap out of me when compared to how many hall of fame caliber forwards are selected in the top 5.
Not sure how you could have been a fan in 95 without knowing who Berard is. I admittedly was not a fan being too young and living in Florida of all places, but I know who he is. He was on the fast track to becoming an amazing defender before his eye injury.

We should not use past precedent as an excuse for avoiding Jones if scouts do indeed feel he is the BPA. You forget that most of us are not just wanting Jones because of his Avs history or our particular need, but the fact he very well is possibly the BPA in this draft in terms of overall potential.

My list goes sort of like this so far.

Jones
Drouin
MacK
Barkov
Lindholm
Monahan
Erne
Shinkaruk
Nichuskin
Ristolainen

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03-24-2013, 10:40 AM
  #749
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Berard would've been a HHOF candidate if it wasn't for his eye injury, he was that good before it happened.

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03-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #750
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Ideally the Avs want to be picking 3rd. Reason being is because there are 3 players who have separated from the rest Drouin, Jones, MacKinnon. By picking 3rd the decision gets made for you, because the other 2 teams pick the other 2 and you're still left with a top end player. Much like the Matt Duchene draft. There is no scrutiny like we should have picked Jones over Mackinnon or Drouin over Jones because you got what was left of the big 3.

There is a lot of pressure if you have the #1 pick, often time unless there is a Sidney Crosby type player the #1 pick isn't the best player in the draft.

My top 10 right now in terms of who I'd like the Avs to take:

1. Drouin
2. MacKinnon
3. Jones
4. Barkov
5. Nichushkin
6. Monahan
7. Lindholm
8. Nurse
9. Shinkaruk
10. Pulock

As you can see I much prefer us to go offense over defense, history shows that offense seems to be a much safer pick early in drafts.

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