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Draft Juniors KHL 2013 in Donetsk

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Old
02-13-2013, 11:43 AM
  #1
vorky
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Draft Juniors KHL 2013 in Donetsk

Draft Juniors KHL 2013 will take place on 25th, 26th May in Donetsk.

Day 1 will be played hockey game among high-ranked kids. Day 2 will be day when clubs will choose kids.

Rules

Following rules can be changed in following weeks, KHL announced:

- kids who turn 17y (born 1996) are eligible. No different among Russians and non-russians (change since 2012)

- KHL club, if meets conditions, has 3 votes to protect its kids. I think this will be changed.

- Club has exclusive rights to sign drafted kid until 30th of April of a year when a player turns 22y.

- Lenght of so called Entry Level Contract. It is until 30th of April of a year when a player turns 20y (3y deal). If a player signs ELC at the age of 20 or 21y, the contract expires on 30th of April of a year when a player turns 22y (1y or 2y deal)

- If a drafted player refused to sign ELC, club hold his rights until 30th of April of a year when a player turns 29y

- 15th of July 2013 is a deadline until club can offer ELC to drafted player.

- KHL scouts department should publish pre-draft ranking before May 10th.

EDIT
ENG


Last edited by vorky: 02-28-2013 at 06:09 AM.
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Old
02-16-2013, 01:52 PM
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cska78
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being a fan of cska, I should hate the draft, since just this year without looking up I would say about 5-7 96 born players played for red army and we won't be able to keep all of them. But at the same time, I hope this will give them a chance to succeed in hockey.

Also, I think protecting the players who are definite goners to CHL is a dangerous practice, yes you keep the rights for top prospects, but you loose the chance to keep middle of the pack guys, who would most def stay. I hope Fedorov has gained some experience and do a better homework this year.

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02-16-2013, 02:41 PM
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I see you, argument makes sense. On the other hand, every GM should want to keep best prospects. Yes, they can leave to CHL. Look at Nichuskin, would he stay if not protected by Traktor? He said after draft, that he was going to play CHL in 12/13. In reality, he plays in KHL system. Goldobin was drafted by Novokuznetsk, left to CHL. Would he stay if drafted/protected by Vityaz?

Draft 2012, results

Drafted by CSKA
D Zadorov, from CSKA
D Boiko, from Krylya Sovetov
G Filonenko, from CSKA
F Tolchinstsky, from CSKA

F Mamin, from CSKA
Makkaev, from CSKA
Koo, from Lada
Prokhorov, from Krylya Sovetov
Zakharov, from Kiev

Protected by CSKA
Stetsenko
Dikushin
F Valentin Zykov
Vorobyov
Sharov


Not protected by CSKA
Bazanov, to Magnitka
G Volkov, to Atlant
Pavel Zykov, to Magnitka (is not in Red Army??)
Antipov, to Novokuznetsk
Yakunin, to Torpedo
Perekhodyuk, to Magnitka

bold, 1st round. IIRC only a guy drafted in 1st round can play KHL in 2012/13. I dont know it for sure, just read in media, nothing in rules as I know. If I am right, therefore Fedorov took so many kids in 1st round, he could protect them later (and not lose pick) .... it is not problem of Fedorov that they moved. He did his best, at least during draft.

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02-16-2013, 05:38 PM
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cska78
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yes, pavel zykov is with the red-army right now. Loss of Volkov is very significant, but i think one can easily understand why he wasn't protected, and it's not Filonenko)

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02-16-2013, 05:40 PM
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11 96 born players played for Red Army this year, the losses will be significant.

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02-16-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
yes, pavel zykov is with the red-army right now. Loss of Volkov is very significant, but i think one can easily understand why he wasn't protected, and it's not Filonenko)
I would say that CSKA wanted to protect Filonenko as better prospect and give chance Tretyak as underager in this season. Right?

Lets hope guys will play for another KHL/MHL clubs and wont go to CHL as 95ers.

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02-16-2013, 06:26 PM
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that I hope

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03-24-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Those 2 guys are really nice prospects. 1 Problem, do you think if they stay they will ever get a shot playing in Kazan? I don't think so, I could be wrong, but probably not...
I have new solution instead of draft - If a player plays 4 seasons in MHL or 2 in the VHL without playing some amount of games in the KHL, he is eligible to go on waivers, meaning the lowest place team has a chance to sign him first. This way guys who are good enough to move on but are stuck in a teams deep system will force the KHL team to either play them or lose them. No compensation for the lost player.
So in a hypothetical worst case situation a 19 yo Svechnikov who would be in his 4th year of MHL would either be forced to be called up to the VHL, where he would only have to stay for 2 years, or the KHL. So the worst case scenario for him is that he is 21 with 2 years of VHL behind him and eligible to sign elsewhere. They wouldn't be able to just call a guy up to the KHL for a few games to negate the rule, to avoid it thet would have to play a guy at least 10min a game for at least 75% of the season.
Of course the numbers are hypothetical Im sure better ones could be made up (maybe only 3 years of MHL?), what do you guys think?
I copied the post, not to be offtopic in another thread.

Maybe they dont get a chance to play for Ak Bars in next 3 seasons, but what is better for them? To stay and after 3 seasons to be free agents in KHL system (dont accept QO)? Or to leave and be RFA of Ak Bars (if protected) until 29 yrs old?

Btw, if they moved to CHL, they will not be fully NHLers until 20y old. Look at Grigorenko, playing CHL. Why?

To start, Ak Bars is one of teams which dont like KHL draft. They would abandon it if they could. Why? Because Ak Bars is loosing its pupils to another KHL clubs.

I think Ak Bars would not support your idea of changing rules. I like the idea/principle. But you have to differ playing MHL before KHL draft and after drafting. VHL rules changed before this season - 25 names roster must consist of minimal 5 players under 23yrs, next minimum of 5 guys under 25yrs + you have to dress one or two players under 20yrs in game (dont remember). That is why Bars in MHL does not have many 91/92ers anymore. All moved to VHL or KHL. Dont count D Garipov, 91, and F Golubev, 91 who played only a few games (max 4) in regular. Only F Makarov, 92 and Lomako, 92 and Sokolov, 91 (only 30 games) played MHL this season. In VHL D Zheleznov played 30 games, F Faizullin 20 games, F Kalimullin played 3rd VHL season, F Baikeyev 19g, F Sokolov 6g, F Tkachyov 7g, F Archipov 6g.

I am of opinion that not everyone can play KHL at 17/18yrs. Only 4-5 such players played Elitserien this season (not counting 1 or 2 games in regulars). And Elitserien is not so good. Look, best in Elitserien was Slovak Cehlarik 95. Would he be the same good in KHL this season (if he got the same TOI). Btw, he played 6 minutes yesterday in PO (btw Nichuskin plays 8+ minutes in KHL PO.. can not claim he does not get chance, because in Elitserien the best player has less TOI and SEL is weaker).

VHL is ideal of not THE BEST russians under 19/20. That is my opinion. The best, like Tarasenko/Nicushkin must get KHL chance at 18 or earlier, and they got it earlier, getting it now and will get in future. But they must be in KHL system at their 17/18 not in canadian jr leagues.

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03-24-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
- KHL club, if meets conditions, has 3 votes to protect its kids. I think this will be changed.
It has changed - 5 votes last year, as far as I remember. But I agree that it should be no protection votes (well, maybe just one, if it makes sense).

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03-24-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spektanto View Post
It has changed - 5 votes last year, as far as I remember. But I agree that it should be no protection votes (well, maybe just one, if it makes sense).
yes, it was 5. Not it is 3, we will see how it will changed before upcoming draft. League wants to make a few categories. I imagine it like some clubs can protect 3 players, some one, other lets say 5.

In ideal ther should not be a proctection rule. On the other hand some clubs invest a lot of money into developing kids and should get compensation. We are not in USA/Canada where hockey school are not directly part of NHL club.

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03-24-2013, 10:20 AM
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I think it's kinda strange that you can actually draft players of other KHL teams' youth systems. Only players outside of KHL teams' hockey schools should be in the draft and their teams should get a certain compensation!

The current form of the draft rather discourages teams to invest much in player development! That's just how I see it.

PS:

Has ever any of the Western European/North American guys of the KHL Draft come to Russia?

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03-24-2013, 10:48 AM
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I can't claim to understand the workings and rules of the KHL draft, but from an outside perspective, a draft in a European sports system just shouldn't exist.

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03-24-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I can't claim to understand the workings and rules of the KHL draft, but from an outside perspective, a draft in a European sports system just shouldn't exist.
I think it's basically against EU laws as well.

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03-24-2013, 01:40 PM
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My forwards ranking, give your opinion on:

1. Evgeni Svechnikov
2. Ivan Nikolishin
3. Ilya Zinoviev
4. Maxim Lazarev
5. Arkhip Nekolenko
6. Radel Fazleyev
7. Kirill Pilipenko
8. Nikita Yazkov
9. Daniil Vovchenko
10. Ilya Klyauzov

Maybe i'm forgetting someone ! Comments !

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03-24-2013, 09:29 PM
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malkinfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I copied the post, not to be offtopic in another thread.

Maybe they dont get a chance to play for Ak Bars in next 3 seasons, but what is better for them? To stay and after 3 seasons to be free agents in KHL system (dont accept QO)? Or to leave and be RFA of Ak Bars (if protected) until 29 yrs old?


I am of opinion that not everyone can play KHL at 17/18yrs. Only 4-5 such players played Elitserien this season (not counting 1 or 2 games in regulars). And Elitserien is not so good. Look, best in Elitserien was Slovak Cehlarik 95. Would he be the same good in KHL this season (if he got the same TOI). Btw, he played 6 minutes yesterday in PO (btw Nichuskin plays 8+ minutes in KHL PO.. can not claim he does not get chance, because in Elitserien the best player has less TOI and SEL is weaker).

VHL is ideal of not THE BEST russians under 19/20. That is my opinion. The best, like Tarasenko/Nicushkin must get KHL chance at 18 or earlier, and they got it earlier, getting it now and will get in future. But they must be in KHL system at their 17/18 not in canadian jr leagues.
I agree they should stay home Vorky, I just want to modify your opinion slightly. I totally agree that there aren't many guys 17/18 that are ready for the KHL at the level it has gotten to. I do however believe that guys shouldn't be trapped in the same system not getting opportunity. Obviously this is rare case, but when Svechnikov, Lazarev are 18, maybe they are ready for the KHL. If they don't get a chance they should be able to go to a team like MNK, who could use a young star like that (certainly they will come cheaper than a high quality veteran player) and would give them lots of ice time. I don't know the rules well enough to know if this can happen, obviously there have been player loans in the past (I don't like this, if the player is released, then he should be released for good). Look at all of the Kazan young guys you mentioned, sooner or later they need the next level if they are high end talent, not just VHL.

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03-25-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fil11 View Post
My forwards ranking, give your opinion on:

1. Evgeni Svechnikov
2. Ivan Nikolishin
3. Ilya Zinoviev
4. Maxim Lazarev
5. Arkhip Nekolenko
6. Radel Fazleyev
7. Kirill Pilipenko
8. Nikita Yazkov
9. Daniil Vovchenko
10. Ilya Klyauzov

Maybe i'm forgetting someone ! Comments !
This ranking doesn't matter, because none of them will change their current team via draft.

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03-25-2013, 11:44 AM
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malkinfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I copied the post, not to be offtopic in another thread.

VHL is ideal of not THE BEST russians under 19/20. That is my opinion. The best, like Tarasenko/Nicushkin must get KHL chance at 18 or earlier, and they got it earlier, getting it now and will get in future. But they must be in KHL system at their 17/18 not in canadian jr leagues.
Yes they were lucky to get there chance. Tarasenko's dad was his coach on a mediocre team, and Nichushkin was lucky enough to seize his chance (I don't know maybe it is a reward for signing the 3 year deal to keep him in Traktor rather than CHL?)... But some guys are not so lucky, look at CSKA for example, they signed so many stars during the lockout and overpay IMO underacheiving foreigners like Sprukts, Persson, and wash ups like Kvasha. They have no room for guys clearly ready for KHL. They had Grigorenko, Gusev, Kucherov, Prokhorkin all who are good enough to play in the KHL IMO, just no room.. Then of course there is Zykov who also left. If these guys had the option of going to a poor team like MNK, Vityaz etc.. do you think maybe they would change their decision to go to CHL?

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03-25-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Yes they were lucky to get there chance. Tarasenko's dad was his coach on a mediocre team, and Nichushkin was lucky enough to seize his chance (I don't know maybe it is a reward for signing the 3 year deal to keep him in Traktor rather than CHL?)... But some guys are not so lucky, look at CSKA for example, they signed so many stars during the lockout and overpay IMO underacheiving foreigners like Sprukts, Persson, and wash ups like Kvasha. They have no room for guys clearly ready for KHL. They had Grigorenko, Gusev, Kucherov, Prokhorkin all who are good enough to play in the KHL IMO, just no room.. Then of course there is Zykov who also left. If these guys had the option of going to a poor team like MNK, Vityaz etc.. do you think maybe they would change their decision to go to CHL?
Grigorenko left earlier - his family wasn't happy with pt in the MHL
Kucherov - dif. story - Tampa paid for his surgery in NA he felt obligated to follow their lead
Prokhorkin is showing signs, and deservedly played
Barbashev got all the chances in the world - can't capitalize
Gusev in one year made strides from the MHL -> VHL (shown that he outgrown it) -> an unofficial loan with a KHL team
(Same path that all the guys who left to CHL would have been able to skate)
Marchenko has been getting all the chances in the world (can't capitalize yet)
Ozhiganov - see Gusev
Sergeev - see Marchenko, but they thought it would be good to lend him to Amur
Tolchinskiy, Kamaev, Zykov, Dikushin, Vorobiev (couple other guys who left at the age of 15 forgetting their names) left to early.
Lyubimov has been getting chances and looked decent at times.
Naumenkov - would have been imho ahead of Ozhiganov in the pipeline but got hurt.
Zadorov - arguably the best 95 born d-man in the country, I expect huge things out of him, but he left too early as well, this year he would be in the VHL for sure.

Who do you realistically think was clearly mistreated? Do you understand the the depth and the might of CSKA school producing more talent than some hockey countries (sorry for being overly proud). Now with Rosneft there's a need to show something for their money as well.

One thing I agree with you is poor management job as far as improving the team goes, they jumped on whatever was out there and overpaid. There just aren't that many players in Europe that you can have and who will improve you right of the bet and it won't cost arm and a leg to pry them free from the current club. I am hoping for better improvements next season, especially as far as the foreign players go.


Last edited by cska78: 03-25-2013 at 01:14 PM.
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03-25-2013, 12:29 PM
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I agree with cska78 at CSKA´s development - leaving CHL topic.

The problem with Grigorenko, Zykov, Zadorov etc was that all left too early. CSKA could not give them chance in KHL (or VHL if had a farm these days) because according to rules, you can play VHL/KHL after KHL draft. Nobody of them signed contract after KHL draft. If KHL did not care about them (did not want to give them chance), they would play kids hockey instead of MHL as underagers. But, all played MHL at 15/16.

I see the same problem in Ak Bars where are many good players.

This week is final of 96er leagues, tournament is held in Chelyabinsk.

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03-25-2013, 12:47 PM
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Guys it is not mistreatment, more a lack of opportunity. Prohkorkin would not have a spot if the lockout guys were still around, which likely played a large part in him moving to AHL. Grigorenko, yes he left earlier, but what were his options at time of leaving? He had outgrown MHL and there was no VHL for him, or spot in KHL.


Kucherov, was unaware about the surgery situation. Gusev situation I think shows lack of opportunity. He must leave in order to get KHL opportunity, which is a modified version of what I am recommending - that is, a system where if a guy feels he is not getting a chance he can move on to another KHL organization rather than wait for him to be "loaned." I guess we will see what happens to the next big prospect, Nikolishin.

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03-25-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Grigorenko, yes he left earlier, but what were his options at time of leaving? He had outgrown MHL and there was no VHL for him, or spot in KHL.
I dont agree that he outgrown MHL at the moment of leaving.

I agree that CSKA´s problem was lack of VHL farm. On the other hand kids can not think they are able to play 20 minutes in KHL at 17/18. The hell, look at Elitserien and its best F born 1995 this season, average time on ice under 10 minutes. And.. russian kids want to play heavy minutes in KHL? No, go to VHL, proove your quality and then moved to KHL. Like Nichushkin did. Does Grigorenko play NHL? No, he still plays junior hockey. Does he outgrow CHL? Yes. So why is he playing it?

I agree with you on principles, but dont share opinion that Grigorenko outgrown MHL at that time.

We must understand that KHL-VHL-MHL model was not fully developed one-two years earlier, even today is not developed. I understand kids who dont care about some KHL system, are selfish. Ok, but why all? Nobody of them will play NHL at 19/20, nobody. I mean 70+ NHL games.

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03-25-2013, 01:13 PM
  #23
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malkinfan, clearly u are not that well informed. Grigorenko outgrown MHL? you seen his stats? he was good for another year there and than VHL, as soon as Rosneft' came about you know there will be a farm in the VHL, just a matter of time.

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03-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Guys it is not mistreatment, more a lack of opportunity. Prohkorkin would not have a spot if the lockout guys were still around, which likely played a large part in him moving to AHL. Grigorenko, yes he left earlier, but what were his options at time of leaving? He had outgrown MHL and there was no VHL for him, or spot in KHL.


Kucherov, was unaware about the surgery situation. Gusev situation I think shows lack of opportunity. He must leave in order to get KHL opportunity, which is a modified version of what I am recommending - that is, a system where if a guy feels he is not getting a chance he can move on to another KHL organization rather than wait for him to be "loaned." I guess we will see what happens to the next big prospect, Nikolishin.
not true, there age-limit players still have to play and Prokhorkin has outplayed barbashev for a spot. Datsyk and Grabo had nothing to do with that.

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03-26-2013, 01:42 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Grigorenko, yes he left earlier, but what were his options at time of leaving? He had outgrown MHL and there was no VHL for him, or spot in KHL.
Outgrown MHL?

He had 35 points in 43 games and 5 points in 10 play-off games before leaving to play in QMJHL next season. Good stats but then again next year in the QMJHL he had 85 points in 59 games and still played a lot there this season (33 games 54 points), so probably at this age he's much more outgrown QMJHL than at that age MHL.

So his situation is not that dissimilar to Kucherov who had outgrown MHL last year (though also had some time in the KHL). Now he's in QMJHL too and well, he's too good for that league too (33 games 63 points). Had he stayed in the KHL he might have been loaned to another KHL team like Gusev or played in CSKA.

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