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KHL Playoffs / Gagarin Cup 2013 Semifinals

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Old
03-23-2013, 12:06 PM
  #76
cska78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by od71 View Post
No. THe problem is that the Ice Palace in Saint Petersburgh is cursed.
Words of Maxim Sushiski are prophetic
sure, that's exactly the problem

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03-23-2013, 01:05 PM
  #77
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@MichaelGarnett and @a_tkachev twit that the second Kazan's goal was scored after the ref blew the whistle.

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03-23-2013, 01:28 PM
  #78
Atas2000
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Originally Posted by Spektanto View Post
@MichaelGarnett and @a_tkachev twit that the second Kazan's goal was scored after the ref blew the whistle.
BS. Just watch the replay. The puck is in the net before the ref has the wistle at his mouth. Garnett shouldn' be the sore loser here. It's just one game of a long series to be.

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03-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by od71 View Post
Garnett is fantastic. He is the main reason the game is tie now.
Kuzya is good. He undressed Nikulin like a child. After that Nikulin got 2 + 10 penalty.
Don't like commentators on KHL-TV. Voices are too shrieking
The +10 was basically for nothing. There was no intention nor injury, just a collision and Nikulin's elbow slid across Kuznetsov's back to the neck. It's 2 minutes for elbowing at best, no question. And where the hell do you get those illusions from? Kuznetsov never undressed Nikulin in this game. Basically got owned by Nikullin all game long not able to create anything substantial. And he got away with a clear tripping on Kulyash too.

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03-23-2013, 01:39 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Voting for the play-by-play announcer for the final series.
http://fanzone.khl.ru/votekhl.php
The thing is they don't have a single one worth voting for.

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03-23-2013, 01:42 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
SKA ownership curses the club with their own baffling decisions. They deserve every bit of hate they gate they gate. Sacking/hiring the wrong people every couple of months.
Watching the game of Sopin SKA ownership should just sit down and think hard about the advantages of developing own talent instead of their shopaholic frenzy every year.

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03-23-2013, 02:06 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Night_Vole View Post
I actually think AK Bars post 2005 lockout are a good model for how richer teams should function. They learned that its not always advisable to get every free agent under the Sun, like SKA is currently doing. They have their core group of players like Morozov, Zaripov, Nikulin, Tereshenko, Medvedev, and Kapanen. They than supplement this with foreigners, the trick is that they get guys who are just breaking and are not fully established stars. They serve their 1-3 seasons, and are replaced if better options become available or if they price themselves out like in the case of Martensen; they let a team like SKA overpay for him while they go out and get another emerging guy. Ocassionally they will keep someone for longer if they identify them as part of their core as in the case of Kapanen or Immonen.

You could argue that they don't develop enough of their own prospects even though there are some recent sucsesses like Petrov and Obukhov. I believe this is due to the fact that they have so many veteran established players and can buy prospective foreigners. So it become hard for prospects to get necessary ice time for the beginning of their development in Kazan. Thats why you will see that Kazan will often trade for emerging players, or get former Kazan players who have previously played there (ie. Korneev, Tereshenko) but where able to blossom elsewhere with more icetime.

Finally what I like about Kazan in recent years they have had a consistent team philosophy under Bill, and now under Belov. The fact that it is not a revolving door of trainers helps with acclimating said free agents, cause you have a firm system and core of players in place that help new players integrate and buy into the team effectively.

I think you're mad just cause its a "non traditional" eastern team thats doing this. Kazan has money and is willing to spend, at least they have something to show for it unlike SKA which is basically a league sponsored team (that I admit has good marketing and has done a great job of attracting fans) with horrible hockey management.
That's basically it. Just an insight on the prospects situation. AkBars' school is relatively young. AkBars was basically nearly built from a scratch so the core players are mainly not Kazan products.

Morozov - Krylya Sovetov
Zaripov, Medvedev - Mechel Chelyabinsk products
Nikulin, Tereschenko - Dynamo Moscow products, basically Billlyaletdinov understudies who followed him to AkBars

Just players signed at some point to build a contender. We can't look back at a history as illustruos as that of CSKA, Dynamo or Traktor for that matter. Back in the USSR we've had a team in the 3rd tier league.(I wionder how many young fans today know much about it. Haters gonna hate without ever being in Kazan. There is always a core of fans there, guys in their 50's and 60's probably. They were supporting SKA im.Uritskogo back then. There is fan tradition not to be underestimated in Kazan). the AkBars scholl basically was built together with the team and is still developing. We don't have a lot of home grown prospects still.

BUT in a couple of years the AkBars philosophy will change. Our good birth years from the AkBars school are starting 1995-1996. From there on AkBars would have as strong an own talent pipeline as CSKA or Traktor. I wonder how the management will react to that change.

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03-23-2013, 02:28 PM
  #83
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BUT in a couple of years the AkBars philosophy will change. Our good birth years from the AkBars school are starting 1995-1996. From there on AkBars would have as strong an own talent pipeline as CSKA or Traktor. I wonder how the management will react to that change.
Unfortunatelly some of them moved to NA - Rinat Valiyev. Burmistrov is another case, I know, he is elder. F Shakhvorostov moved as well, thank God is back. Hope D Nasybullin will stay at home after this season, F Lazarev, Svechnikov etc as well.

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03-23-2013, 07:54 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
The thing is they don't have a single one worth voting for.
ahh.. umm there is no uh um Boris uh ummm ummm Maio umm Maiorov...

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:00 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Unfortunatelly some of them moved to NA - Rinat Valiyev. Burmistrov is another case, I know, he is elder. F Shakhvorostov moved as well, thank God is back. Hope D Nasybullin will stay at home after this season, F Lazarev, Svechnikov etc as well.
Dont know if they will move to NA but it's 100% sure they will all be select in the chl import draft...

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03-24-2013, 03:31 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by QRemparts View Post
Dont know if they will move to NA but it's 100% sure they will all be select in the chl import draft...
Hopefully they will stay in Russia. After SO MANY examples of players leaving too early and having their careers ruined these young kids should have wised up already.

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Old
03-24-2013, 08:46 AM
  #87
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Those 2 guys are really nice prospects. 1 Problem, do you think if they stay they will ever get a shot playing in Kazan? I don't think so, I could be wrong, but probably not...
I have new solution instead of draft - If a player plays 4 seasons in MHL or 2 in the VHL without playing some amount of games in the KHL, he is eligible to go on waivers, meaning the lowest place team has a chance to sign him first. This way guys who are good enough to move on but are stuck in a teams deep system will force the KHL team to either play them or lose them. No compensation for the lost player.
So in a hypothetical worst case situation a 19 yo Svechnikov who would be in his 4th year of MHL would either be forced to be called up to the VHL, where he would only have to stay for 2 years, or the KHL. So the worst case scenario for him is that he is 21 with 2 years of VHL behind him and eligible to sign elsewhere. They wouldn't be able to just call a guy up to the KHL for a few games to negate the rule, to avoid it thet would have to play a guy at least 10min a game for at least 75% of the season.
Of course the numbers are hypothetical Im sure better ones could be made up (maybe only 3 years of MHL?), what do you guys think?

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:12 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
That's basically it. Just an insight on the prospects situation. AkBars' school is relatively young. AkBars was basically nearly built from a scratch so the core players are mainly not Kazan products.

Morozov - Krylya Sovetov
Zaripov, Medvedev - Mechel Chelyabinsk products
Nikulin, Tereschenko - Dynamo Moscow products, basically Billlyaletdinov understudies who followed him to AkBars

Just players signed at some point to build a contender. We can't look back at a history as illustruos as that of CSKA, Dynamo or Traktor for that matter. Back in the USSR we've had a team in the 3rd tier league.(I wionder how many young fans today know much about it. Haters gonna hate without ever being in Kazan. There is always a core of fans there, guys in their 50's and 60's probably. They were supporting SKA im.Uritskogo back then. There is fan tradition not to be underestimated in Kazan). the AkBars scholl basically was built together with the team and is still developing. We don't have a lot of home grown prospects still.

BUT in a couple of years the AkBars philosophy will change. Our good birth years from the AkBars school are starting 1995-1996. From there on AkBars would have as strong an own talent pipeline as CSKA or Traktor. I wonder how the management will react to that change.
it was SK im. Uritskogo, not SKA

also, may be you will stop ravaging other schools in the Volga neighborhood too now?

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:44 AM
  #89
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not looking good for Traktor

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03-24-2013, 10:18 AM
  #90
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Ak Bars use all their cleverness and without investing much they get their wins. I see them in Gagarin Cup finals in just 4-5 matches.

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03-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
Ak Bars use all their cleverness and without investing much they get their wins. I see them in Gagarin Cup finals in just 4-5 matches.
yep, that was an easy walk for ak bars, i will be surprised to see them (traktor) win one game actually. so much better ak bars looks.

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:31 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by kp61c View Post
yep, that was an easy walk for ak bars, i will be surprised to see them (traktor) win one game actually. so much better ak bars looks.
I don't count on that. Arena Traktor is a tough place.

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03-24-2013, 06:21 PM
  #93
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Nice Ak Bars keeps on rolling.

I see them taking this series in 6 games.

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03-24-2013, 10:02 PM
  #94
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Not liking Nikulin, he should have fought Chistov. Only 20 seconds left, who cares if you get kicked out. Chistov is half his size, respect to him for going at Nikulin. Nikulin has been giving it to the Traktor forwards, so the least he can do is honour Chistov.

Didnt think Chistov had it in him.

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Old
03-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Not liking Nikulin, he should have fought Chistov. Only 20 seconds left, who cares if you get kicked out. Chistov is half his size, respect to him for going at Nikulin. Nikulin has been giving it to the Traktor forwards, so the least he can do is honour Chistov.

Didnt think Chistov had it in him.
Why? Nikulin is no fighter. Just a stupid boy move by Chistov. Nikulin was smiling at him all the way(and could have beaten the crap out of him regarding the size difference). So basically Nikulin just didn't hurt a guy who was foolish.

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03-25-2013, 11:51 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Why? Nikulin is no fighter. Just a stupid boy move by Chistov. Nikulin was smiling at him all the way(and could have beaten the crap out of him regarding the size difference). So basically Nikulin just didn't hurt a guy who was foolish.
Its called honour.. If you are going to torment the forwards all series long, and they challenge you, you better accept, especially if they are half your size or you are a coward. Its different if its in the first period and the game is close. There was no excuse, disgusting to see that.. Its not just Canadian mentality either, I have seen some Russians honour their opponents. Emelin is one recent who comes to mind, he makes great hits but obviously takes some runs at guys. Foligno decided Emelin should own up to it, he went after Emelin, and Emelin went with him. He could have easily turtled and for a good reason (has metal plate or something from fight with Svitov) but he honoured his opponent. Valentenko, another honourable player. Even Datsyuk, Kovy and OV know when the time is right.

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03-25-2013, 01:09 PM
  #97
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Its called honour.. If you are going to torment the forwards all series long, and they challenge you, you better accept, especially if they are half your size or you are a coward. Its different if its in the first period and the game is close. There was no excuse, disgusting to see that.. Its not just Canadian mentality either, I have seen some Russians honour their opponents. Emelin is one recent who comes to mind, he makes great hits but obviously takes some runs at guys. Foligno decided Emelin should own up to it, he went after Emelin, and Emelin went with him. He could have easily turtled and for a good reason (has metal plate or something from fight with Svitov) but he honoured his opponent. Valentenko, another honourable player. Even Datsyuk, Kovy and OV know when the time is right.
Nope the game is called hockey. always the same with ppl calling for fights. I konw you'll never learn if you bring up such things up.

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03-25-2013, 01:20 PM
  #98
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What's with the LADA school? Please come up with facts backed up by knowledge of what the topic is. We're talking about hockey schools. Nobody is forced in there. It's not the CSKA in the SU. They are not part of any league. They are not subject to any rules about whom to pick up. They are private enterprises and act like ones. If anyone thinks he is better off at the AkBars school or the CSKA school or whatever school nobody can prevent them from going there or force them to do so. What's your itch? You want the togliatti school to be a top school again. Just go there, invest money and make them the best school in the country and you'll soon have all the kids wanting to learn there. Otherwise, please watch your choice of words. your fine CSKA is becoming a strong talent buyer too. Nobody is calling them out for 'ravaging' the market's landscape after they basically bought themselves the Salavat Yulaev. It's all a business.


Last edited by stv11: 03-26-2013 at 05:27 AM.
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03-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
What's with the LADA school? Please come up with facts backed up by knowledge of what the topic is. We're talking about hockey schools. Nobody is forced in there. It's not the CSKA in the SU. They are not part of any league. They are not subject to any rules about whom to pick up. They are private enterprises and act like ones. If anyone thinks he is better off at the AkBars school or the CSKA school or whatever school nobody can prevent them from going there or force them to do so. What's your itch? You want the togliatti school to be a top school again. Just go there, invest money and make them the best school in the country and you'll soon have all the kids wanting to learn there. Otherwise, please watch your choice of words. your fine CSKA is becoming a strong talent buyer too. Nobody is calling them out for 'ravaging' the market's landscape after they basically bought themselves the Salavat Yulaev. It's all a business.
Buying talent on the adult level is one thing - yes it's business (but I still hate the fact of overpaying for marginal talent and ruining the market) Ravaging poorer schools and claiming their kids your product - is totally different. When Lada ceased playing in the KHL their schools got emptied out by KHL clubs, Ak Bars poached Togliati for many years on both: adult and kids levels.


Last edited by stv11: 03-26-2013 at 05:28 AM.
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03-26-2013, 09:00 AM
  #100
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I generally agree with cska78, but some centralization of prospects is bound to happen, it's not like every current CSKA pupil is born in a miles radius from their arena either. Grigorenko is from Khabarovsk, Kamayev from Izhevsk, Lysenko from Ukraine and so on.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to understand the differences between the quality of training facilities (and no doubt some financial incentives) Togliatti and Kazan can offer.

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