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Lewis Predicament far from over.

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Old
08-04-2006, 09:45 PM
  #26
MePutPuckInNet
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Originally Posted by Beaner View Post
from, www.whl.ca

So looking at that it quite clearly states that if you are on a 50ppl you can only play for that team at the Major Junior Level [IN THE WESTERN HOCKEY LEAGUE]. However if you want to go to a different league, be it BCHL, US College etc you can still do that.

Since the Chiefs say they have him on their 50PPL, it looks very cut and dry to me.
-------------------------
The problem is that people keep reading rules from the WHL and think they apply to the entire Canadian Hockey League, when they don't. The rule clearly states that he has to play for Spokane, but only IF he was still going to play in the WHL. The rule says "at the Major Junior Level" but it is only at the Major Junior Level in the dub.

Basically, the Chiefs are trying to twist the nads of the OHL, but they can't win this one. Sorry.

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08-04-2006, 10:37 PM
  #27
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I can't see Lewis going to Spokane whatever the WHL says. Futa said he had Branch's approval all the way on the original deal.

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08-05-2006, 01:16 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
-------------------------
The problem is that people keep reading rules from the WHL and think they apply to the entire Canadian Hockey League, when they don't. The rule clearly states that he has to play for Spokane, but only IF he was still going to play in the WHL. The rule says "at the Major Junior Level" but it is only at the Major Junior Level in the dub.

Basically, the Chiefs are trying to twist the nads of the OHL, but they can't win this one. Sorry.
How can the Chiefs be trying to "twist the nads of the OHL" when it seems as if they listed Lewis before Owen Sound & the OHL was even in the picture?

Why in the world would the CHL let Owen Sound make a public announcement about signing Lewis if there was any dispute about who owned his rights?

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08-05-2006, 02:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 90-91 View Post
How can the Chiefs be trying to "twist the nads of the OHL" when it seems as if they listed Lewis before Owen Sound & the OHL was even in the picture?

Why in the world would the CHL let Owen Sound make a public announcement about signing Lewis if there was any dispute about who owned his rights?

I get the feeling from what I am reading that Branch or Owen Sound did not anticipate such a stink over this and if they had known this would be happening would have handled this differently. PPL are for the protection of teams from getting their top prospects raided by what may be considerd more desireable franchises. A PPL at the Major Junior level pertains to playing rights in all three Major Junior Leagues not just the one. There is just a real stink over this like Branch playing favorites for his own league and trying to bend rules to suit his league at the expense of the others.

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08-05-2006, 04:15 PM
  #30
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PPL are for the protection of teams from getting their top prospects raided by what may be considerd more desireable franchises.
True.

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A PPL at the Major Junior level pertains to playing rights in all three Major Junior Leagues not just the one.
That has never been tested. The Lewis case will prove if that is true or not.

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There is just a real stink over this like Branch playing favorites for his own league and trying to bend rules to suit his league at the expense of the others.
Debatable. Branch has next to nothing to do with the way the WHL conducts its business, and the WHL's PPL rules (which the O and Q don't have or respect) apply only as far as the WHL. It's like when the Duke boys get over that river out of Hazzard County - Cletus cain't chase 'em no more.

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08-06-2006, 03:04 AM
  #31
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That has never been tested. The Lewis case will prove if that is true or not.
So true, this case will probably be used for cases like this in the future. Theres a first for everything and this will obviously be it.

I don't really like Spokane's chances even though I'm a gigantic fan, but I'm really pulling for the best here. It did seem kind of shady that they made it so public and such a huge announcement over it. If anything there should be at least some sort of compensation (which will probably end up just money) for the chiefs because of this whole ordeal.

First Cowan, and now this.

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08-06-2006, 07:26 AM
  #32
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So true, this case will probably be used for cases like this in the future. Theres a first for everything and this will obviously be it.

I don't really like Spokane's chances even though I'm a gigantic fan, but I'm really pulling for the best here. It did seem kind of shady that they made it so public and such a huge announcement over it. If anything there should be at least some sort of compensation (which will probably end up just money) for the chiefs because of this whole ordeal.

First Cowan, and now this.


Does this mean that London can now recruit Jonathan Toews? He was drafted by a WHL team and placed on their PPL list but never reported or played for them ....

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08-06-2006, 08:09 AM
  #33
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Does this mean that London can now recruit Jonathan Toews? He was drafted by a WHL team and placed on their PPL list but never reported or played for them ....
No, because Toews was drafted by Tri-City. Lewis was never drafted by Spokane, only placed on a protected list.

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08-06-2006, 10:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Beaner View Post
from, www.whl.ca



So looking at that it quite clearly states that if you are on a 50ppl you can only play for that team at the Major Junior Level. However if you want to go to a different league, be it BCHL, US College etc you can still do that.

Since the Chiefs say they have him on their 50PPL, it looks very cut and dry to me.
These rules are ambiguous to say the least! If you look on the WHL site, it also states the following under the PPL link:

A player who is on a WHL teamís List may not play for another WHL team, or attend another WHL team's training camp or rookie camp. However, being a member of a WHL teamís 50 Player Protected List does not restrict a player from playing for, or attending a camp of a non-WHL team. The 50 Player Protected List is used strictly to determine which WHL team holds the playerís rights.
__________________________________________________ ____

This is a huge mess to say the least, but I hope it will open up the eyes of all hockey leagues, including the minors. IMO, there should be more interaction b/w the Canadian & American hockey associations in order to address the issues that situations like this cause. Zoning, residency, the draft, imports, etc.... the 2 countries (and eventually European countries) need to be in sync in order to come up with a solution to avoid future fiascos. With the globalization of hockey these changes should have been started eons ago!!

The outcome I'd like to see (although it'll never happen!!) is the CHL granting the Chiefs a first-round Import Draft pick next year in exchange for Lewis and the mess the league rules have created!! The 3 CHL leagues participate in the same Import Draft, so why not provide some plausible compensation to Spokane.

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08-06-2006, 11:23 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by ShadowHockey View Post
These rules are ambiguous to say the least! If you look on the WHL site, it also states the following under the PPL link:

A player who is on a WHL teamís List may not play for another WHL team, or attend another WHL team's training camp or rookie camp. However, being a member of a WHL teamís 50 Player Protected List does not restrict a player from playing for, or attending a camp of a non-WHL team. The 50 Player Protected List is used strictly to determine which WHL team holds the playerís rights.
__________________________________________________ ____

This is a huge mess to say the least, but I hope it will open up the eyes of all hockey leagues, including the minors. IMO, there should be more interaction b/w the Canadian & American hockey associations in order to address the issues that situations like this cause. Zoning, residency, the draft, imports, etc.... the 2 countries (and eventually European countries) need to be in sync in order to come up with a solution to avoid future fiascos. With the globalization of hockey these changes should have been started eons ago!!

The outcome I'd like to see (although it'll never happen!!) is the CHL granting the Chiefs a first-round Import Draft pick next year in exchange for Lewis and the mess the league rules have created!! The 3 CHL leagues participate in the same Import Draft, so why not provide some plausible compensation to Spokane.

If there should be any compensation to Spokane, I would agree with you about the 1st. pick in the import draft, since Spokane will probably lose Grabner into the Vancouver system after this year, but that would definatly not be my first choice for a solution to this problem.

Shouldn't some consideration be given to the Chiefs since they acted first in trying to secure Lewis's rights, while following established WHL rules. While it appears Owen Sound came in after the fact to use established OHL rules??

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08-06-2006, 11:34 AM
  #36
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I get the feeling from what I am reading that Branch or Owen Sound did not anticipate such a stink over this and if they had known this would be happening would have handled this differently. PPL are for the protection of teams from getting their top prospects raided by what may be considerd more desireable franchises. A PPL at the Major Junior level pertains to playing rights in all three Major Junior Leagues not just the one. There is just a real stink over this like Branch playing favorites for his own league and trying to bend rules to suit his league at the expense of the others.
Well I'm wondering if this will be handled through some sort of arbitration, although I've never heard anything prior to this re: the CHL playing favorites with one league over another.

I can't get the picture out of my mind of a bunch of guys standing around in the CHL offices telling Chiefs Mgmt. "hey we didn't know you had him listed, and now that there's been a public announcement......better luck next time!"

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08-06-2006, 01:48 PM
  #37
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Well I'm wondering if this will be handled through some sort of arbitration, although I've never heard anything prior to this re: the CHL playing favorites with one league over another.

I can't get the picture out of my mind of a bunch of guys standing around in the CHL offices telling Chiefs Mgmt. "hey we didn't know you had him listed, and now that there's been a public announcement......better luck next time!"

Wouldn't you think the CHL would see the guy is from Utah - WHL territory and contact the WHL offices to see if anyone had drafted him or had him listed before allowing for any sort of announcement to be made? Did Owen Sound contact the CHL offices before or after making the announcement btw? Didn't follow this much
before the announcement so apologies if this was covered earlier or in another post ....

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08-07-2006, 12:44 PM
  #38
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regardless of a protected list or not, I need someone to explain to me how a Junior team anywhere would let this guy get to be 19 , 17th overall pick into the NHL and never draft him to your team. Two years ago, Owen Sound drafted another American who at the time was not going to play in the CHL, they took a chance, now this kid is coming to Owen Sound to play. The teams in the WHL have screwed up big time. They may get this kid back (I highly doubt it),but either way they screwed up.

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08-07-2006, 02:40 PM
  #39
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regardless of a protected list or not, I need someone to explain to me how a Junior team anywhere would let this guy get to be 19 , 17th overall pick into the NHL and never draft him to your team. Two years ago, Owen Sound drafted another American who at the time was not going to play in the CHL, they took a chance, now this kid is coming to Owen Sound to play. The teams in the WHL have screwed up big time. They may get this kid back (I highly doubt it),but either way they screwed up.
The WHL didn't screw up. As has been stated before the WHL Drafts and works differently then the OHL.

The WHL has a bantam draft. 14-15year olds.

If a 15 year old player goes thru the draft and does not get drafted, then he can just be added to a teams 50 player protected list, as long as that team has an available spot on their 50 PPL. You don't need to draft him in the WHL to hold his rights, you just need to put the player on your 50 PPL.

Why would a WHL team "waste" a pick on a 16-17 that they can just name to their 50PPL any time they want as long as they have room?

Take a look at the Draft for this year, 2006, and see how many 1986-1990 born players (16-20 year olds) were drafted. I counted 0. http://whl.ca/draft/?draft_id=3

Thats what the Chiefs have done, Lewis went thru the draft and didnt get drafted, thus they were able to put him on their 50 PPL, as long as they had a spot on it. Which they did.

It wasn't a screw up on the Chiefs, they followed WHL rules, the league they play in, and all the teams in the WHL new that the Chiefs had him on their list and that they couldn't sign him.

The Attack and the OHL are challenging that, and now we will see what happens.

Don't forget that this situation has never happened before, and the WHL has been working with this system for years.

----

I agree with you though, the chances of Lewis going back to the WHL are slim, for many reasons, but I am more concerned about the precident this will set.

And if the 50PPL is going to be ignored by the other 2 leagues, whats next?

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08-07-2006, 03:30 PM
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And if the 50PPL is going to be ignored by the other 2 leagues, whats next?
A midget draft?

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08-07-2006, 04:03 PM
  #41
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I see what you are saying about the WHL rules, and how it operates there. But, this kid was at the NHL draft combine in Toronto and let it be known he was willing to play CHL hockey this year - were was the WHL team when this happened. This has been in the works for a few months and we hear nothing about it until he is signed?? still seems like someone screwed up. The WHL team should of been all over Trevor for the last year asking what his intentions were. He did not become a first round NHL pick over night!!

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08-07-2006, 04:21 PM
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The CHL needs to step up and unify the listing of draft and PPL kids between all three leagues. All PPL adds/drops need to go through the WHL office as stated in their rules, so why not just forward this to the CHL office. Same with the other leagues. The same could be done with residency rules and the amount of time kids need to reside in the drafting/listing league areas. This might help to eliminate a kid born in the West who leaves at 16 to go to a Tier II league in the States for a year or so and then skipping to another major junior league.

Also, how about the CHL and the three leagues posting their rules/reg's so everyone can know what they are up to. Secrecy always starts this type of speculation and rumour.

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08-30-2006, 05:52 AM
  #43
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the CHL has ruled, and Owen Sound is the winner!!! Trevor Lewis will be in an Attack uni this year. He actually is in town already getting ready for camp along with Bobby Ryan and Bob Saguinetti! three first round NHL picks in the lineup this year.

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08-30-2006, 08:55 AM
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08-30-2006, 09:07 AM
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the CHL has ruled, and Owen Sound is the winner!!!
I wouldn't call OS the winner, I would say they break the rules and got away with it.

Here is the press release.

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CHL RULES AGAINST WESTERN HOCKEY LEAGUE AND SPOKANE CHIEFS

The Western Hockey League advised the Spokane Chiefs today that the Canadian Hockey League has ruled that player Trevor Lewis will be permitted to join the Ontario Hockey League Owen Sound Attack for the 2006-07 season.

The playerís eligibility had been under review since it was announced in mid July that Trevor Lewis had signed with Owen Sound. Lewis is a resident of Utah, a WHL U.S. protected territory under CHL Regulations, and signed with Owen Sound without receiving the approval of the WHL.

The CHL will be sanctioning the OHL for not obtaining approval from the WHL to have the player transferred to OHL territory for the upcoming 2006-07 season. The matter will continue to be reviewed as the CHL works toward the adoption of a national regulation to govern the movement of players from territory to territory.

Chiefs General Manager Tim Speltz said, ďI am very disappointed with Dave Branchís decision. I feel as President of the CHL he was not objective with this decision and the rules regarding CHL Territories. The OHL was not forthright with the process regarding request for player transfers.Ē
So basically the CHL acknowledged that OS broke the rules, but have given Lewis to the OHL anyway.

OS will more than likely have to pay a fine, but if your OS who cares, you got the player which is what you really wanted all along, who cares about a fine.

Looks pretty shadey to me.

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09-01-2006, 10:22 PM
  #46
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Well debated thread here everyone.

Rob Vanstone of the Regina Leader Post and The Hockey News will be on my radio show this coming Tuesday (Sept 5th) between 8-9 PM Edmonton time and we will talk about this case during our conversation.

You can hear the interview live at www.thepipelineshow.com or afterwards once it is archived on the site.

Cheers!

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09-02-2006, 06:51 PM
  #47
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Well debated thread here everyone.

Rob Vanstone of the Regina Leader Post and The Hockey News will be on my radio show this coming Tuesday (Sept 5th) between 8-9 PM Edmonton time and we will talk about this case during our conversation.

You can hear the interview live at www.thepipelineshow.com or afterwards once it is archived on the site.

Cheers!

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Thats great thanks for letting us know.

What are the chances you could get David Branch on to talk about this as he seems to not want to talk to anyone about this.....

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09-03-2006, 12:27 PM
  #48
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So in a nutshell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaner View Post
The WHL didn't screw up. As has been stated before the WHL Drafts and works differently then the OHL.

The WHL has a bantam draft. 14-15year olds.

If a 15 year old player goes thru the draft and does not get drafted, then he can just be added to a teams 50 player protected list, as long as that team has an available spot on their 50 PPL. You don't need to draft him in the WHL to hold his rights, you just need to put the player on your 50 PPL.

Why would a WHL team "waste" a pick on a 16-17 that they can just name to their 50PPL any time they want as long as they have room?

Take a look at the Draft for this year, 2006, and see how many 1986-1990 born players (16-20 year olds) were drafted. I counted 0. http://whl.ca/draft/?draft_id=3

Thats what the Chiefs have done, Lewis went thru the draft and didnt get drafted, thus they were able to put him on their 50 PPL, as long as they had a spot on it. Which they did.

It wasn't a screw up on the Chiefs, they followed WHL rules, the league they play in, and all the teams in the WHL new that the Chiefs had him on their list and that they couldn't sign him.

The Attack and the OHL are challenging that, and now we will see what happens.

Don't forget that this situation has never happened before, and the WHL has been working with this system for years.

----

I agree with you though, the chances of Lewis going back to the WHL are slim, for many reasons, but I am more concerned about the precident this will set.

And if the 50PPL is going to be ignored by the other 2 leagues, whats next?
It would appear that the WHL has rules that other leagues do not have with regards to rights to players. Since the rules are WHL rules, it seems sensible to me that they can only be applied within the WHL and not other leagues.

I am not sure what else the CHL could do in this case. If the player tried to go elsewhere in the WHL it would be a no-brainer. Expanding WHL rules to cover the other two leagues really makes no sense to me at all.

I am no lawyer and I am only rationalizing here, but unless the rules are the same across the board within the CHL, how can the CHL stop Lewis from going to Owen Sound? To stop this from happening requires all the 3 leagues to agree to one set of rights rules. Am I missing something here?

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09-03-2006, 03:13 PM
  #49
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A CHL rules overhaul is in order.

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09-04-2006, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
I am no lawyer and I am only rationalizing here, but unless the rules are the same across the board within the CHL, how can the CHL stop Lewis from going to Owen Sound? To stop this from happening requires all the 3 leagues to agree to one set of rights rules. Am I missing something here?
It gets even worse when the 3 leagues aren't even playing with the same officiating standards like they did last year.

Time for the 3 leagues to get together and all start playing by the same set of rules both on and off the ice.

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