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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings XI - Winter... I mean...Deadline approaching

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:12 AM
  #401
Faltorvo
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Originally Posted by Rockinz View Post
Dallas is in win now mode big time...

Look at their team Jagr, Whitney, Cole, Morrow, Roy, Robidas etc etc

They are a true vet team and are holding down a PO spot. Dont think Newy will be a seller unless they fall off a cliff in the next 2 weeks.

Not the biggest Bozak fan BUT i would take him over Roy any day...

If we move Bozak i want an overpayment in picks (1st + 3rd) not just for the picks but for Kadri and Grabo to have a chance as our 1-2 and McClement as our 3rd line shutdown guy.

That makes us better now and on draft day... Win win!
I don't even need over payment a 2nd and 3rd for Boz is ok with me.

Use that 2nd and find me another Finn or package it with our first to move up in the draft if need be.

This is what i know as fact ,2nds and 3rds hold value in the market place.

Players like Mac and Boz walking for no return, makes this franchise asset poorer and we are in no position to allow that to happen.


Last edited by Faltorvo: 03-24-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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03-24-2013, 10:17 AM
  #402
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I don't even need over payment a 2nd and 3rd for Boz is ok with me.

Use that 2nd and find me another Finn or package it with our first to move up in the draft if need be.
Moving Bozak is addition by subtraction. Does anyone think Grabo doesn't outscore him given the same linemates and ice time? Then it is just a question of filling the bottom two spots, and McClement already has one. Grabo has 13 pts and a -8 being misused on the third line. How hard wouuld that level of production be to replace?

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03-24-2013, 10:19 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I don't even need over payment a 2nd and 3rd for Boz is ok with me.

Use that 2nd and find me another Finn or package it with our first to move up in the draft if need be.

This is what i know as fact ,2nds and 3rds hold value in the market place.

Players like Mac and Boz walking for no return, makes this franchise asset poorer and we are in no position to allow that to happen.
Package two seconds to move into the top 15 would seem to be feasible as well, certainly wouldn't mind that

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03-24-2013, 10:25 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Moving Bozak is addition by subtraction. Does anyone think Grabo doesn't outscore him given the same linemates and ice time? Then it is just a question of filling the bottom two spots, and McClement already has one. Grabo has 13 pts and a -8 being misused on the third line. How hard would that level of production be to replace?
You very well might be right.

It's just, well, posting that along with the asset debate allows for too many streams to branch off from that river of thought.

I'll let you handle the dynamics of roster affect, argument.

I'm having enough of a fight as it is on the asset front.

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03-24-2013, 10:33 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by ForzaZuffa View Post
Package two seconds to move into the top 15 would seem to be feasible as well, certainly wouldn't mind that
Lots of different things can be done with the asset value returns from a Boz and Mac.

My main argument is being boiled down to 1 thing, we are in no position as a organization to be letting assets values like that bleed away into the aether.

This whole bullsht mentality of "it's all about the POs" has been a large contributing factor in the disaster this franchise has been for the past 8 fckn years.

And frankly, it makes me want to puke ,that the second, the GD second this organization started to sniff the POs (see last TD), this organization reverts back to it's old priority ways.

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:38 AM
  #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Lots of different things can be done with the asset value returns from a Boz and Mac.

My main argument is being boiled down to 1 thing, we are in no position as a organization to be letting assets values like that bleed away into the aether.

This whole bullsht mentality of "it's all about the POs" has been a large contributing factor in the disaster this franchise has been for the past 8 fckn years.

And frankly, it makes me want to puke ,that the second, the GD second this organization started to sniff the POs (see last TD), this organization reverts back to it's old priority ways.
How do you know we wouldn't fair well in the playoffs? It's one thing to say 'I don't wanna just sneak into the playoffs' if your a team like washington that has made the playoffs the last few years and lost in early rounds. But we haven't even been there. How do you know we don't pull a Philly from a few years back? You don't, its the playoffs, its a whole new game.

It seems a lot of people get lost in translation, forgetting that the entire reason why this organization is in place is to win. People seem to get caught up in the "asset management" side of things.

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03-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #407
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How do you know we wouldn't fair well in the playoffs? It's one thing to say 'I don't wanna just sneak into the playoffs' if your a team like washington that has made the playoffs the last few years and lost in early rounds. But we haven't even been there. How do you know we don't pull a Philly from a few years back? You don't, its the playoffs, its a whole new game.

It seems a lot of people get lost in translation, forgetting that the entire reason why this organization is in place is to win. People seem to get caught up in the "asset management" side of things.
We're 25th in the league in shots per game, 26th in the league in shots allowed (4th worst), we have a young team that's basically never seen the post season, all on top of the usual atypical ingredients of a condender in the lack of #1C, #1D, #1G (although Reimer is playing fairly well).

So yes, we don't KNOW that we'll perform poorly in the postseason, but it sure as hell is safe to say where the odds are. Just read the writing on the wall.

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03-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by YunelYESco View Post
How do you know we wouldn't fair well in the playoffs? It's one thing to say 'I don't wanna just sneak into the playoffs' if your a team like washington that has made the playoffs the last few years and lost in early rounds. But we haven't even been there. How do you know we don't pull a Philly from a few years back? You don't, its the playoffs, its a whole new game.

It seems a lot of people get lost in translation, forgetting that the entire reason why this organization is in place is to win. People seem to get caught up in the "asset management" side of things.
How do you know our chances would be any less if we moved out Mac and Boz and called up the likes of Hamilton, Colb,Asht,D'Amigo,Con,Ziggy and reset the line and ice time allocations.

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03-24-2013, 11:10 AM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Moving Bozak is addition by subtraction. Does anyone think Grabo doesn't outscore him given the same linemates and ice time? Then it is just a question of filling the bottom two spots, and McClement already has one. Grabo has 13 pts and a -8 being misused on the third line. How hard wouuld that level of production be to replace?
Oh yea, and who's going to win faceoffs for us?

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03-24-2013, 11:13 AM
  #410
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Oh yea, and who's going to win faceoffs for us?
You do realize that Grabo is over 50% F/Os, Komarov is over 60%, Jay McClement is 50%. Bozak is only 2.5% better on average than grabo...

So let's not get carried away.

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03-24-2013, 11:13 AM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
How do you know our chances would be any less if we moved out Mac and Boz and called up the likes of Hamilton, Colb,Asht,D'Amigo,Con,Ziggy and reset the line and ice time allocations.
Common sense? You guys are selling Bozak really short here.

I agree he needs to be upgraded but you are dreaming if you think you are gonna get the same production from the guys you listed.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:15 AM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
Common sense? You guys are selling Bozak really short here.

I agree he needs to be upgraded but you are dreaming if you think you are gonna get the same production from the guys you listed.
This

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03-24-2013, 11:17 AM
  #413
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Oh yea, and who's going to win faceoffs for us?
Did you happen to notice that Grabo and Mclem are doing just fine in the dot?

Boz has a 2.3% FO edge on Grabo.

To put it in context if Grabo had as many FOs as Boz he would have only lost 17 more then Boz at 722 attempts.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:23 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
Common sense? You guys are selling Bozak really short here.

I agree he needs to be upgraded but you are dreaming if you think you are gonna get the same production from the guys you listed.
What common sence Pinto? you tell me.

Move Grabo with Kessel/JVR

Mclem takes 3rd C

Kamo fills 3rd line role for Mac

and the AHL ers fill out the 4th line.

Lups,Kadri,Kuli

JVR,Grabo,Kessel

Kamo, McLem, Frat


Orr,Mclar,Hamilton,Colb,Asht,D'Amigo,Con,Ziggy fill out the 4th line

Whats all the fuss and worry about?

You worried we won't win the cup without Mac and Boz?

You worried we won't make the POs without Mac and Boz?

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03-24-2013, 11:25 AM
  #415
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Lol you guys are crazy...

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
What common sence Pinto? you tell me.

Move Grabo with Kessel/JVR

Mclem takes 3rd C

Kamo fills 3rd line role for Mac

and the AHL ers fill out the 4th line.

Lups,Kadri,Kuli

JVR,Grabo,Kessel

Kamo, McLem, Frat


Orr,Mclar,Hamilton,Colb,Asht,D'Amigo,Con,Ziggy fill out the 4th line

Whats all the fuss and worry about?

You worried we won't win the cup without Mac and Boz?

You worried we won't make the POs without Mac and Boz?
That third line has little to no offense, Frattin is a good finisher but he can't carry a line.

Grabo and Kessel together isn't promising.

Any injuries and we are even more screwed.

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03-24-2013, 11:31 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post

You worried we won't win the cup without Mac and Boz?

You worried we won't make the POs without Mac and Boz?
Yes, plugging in AHL checkers in their spots really hurts our chances.

I'm pretty sure making the playoffs is the goal this year. I'm not saying trade our 1st for rentals, just keep what we got.

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03-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Pinto View Post
That third line has little to no offense, Frattin is a good finisher but he can't carry a line.

Grabo and Kessel together isn't promising.

Any injuries and we are even more screwed.
3rd line was supposed to be a shut down line from the get go,no?

You do realize that Mclem has only 2 less helper then Boz, right?

Point in fact that Mclem has more even strength helpers then Boz.

Matter of fact ,Mclem is right with Boz and Mac for EST.

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03-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #419
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Brooks speculating Loui Eriksson from Dallas may be available.

Some interesting speculation.

Larry Brooks of new York post is speculating that Dallas could be jumping on a ship to rebuild and may possibly make Eriksson available.

I would imagine 29 teams would be knocking on the doors for him if it holds any truth.

For us, he would be a great fit in our top 6.

What would you guys be willing to pay if he is available?

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03-24-2013, 11:39 AM
  #420
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Some interesting speculation.

Larry Brooks of new York post is speculating that Dallas could be jumping on a ship to rebuild and may possibly make Eriksson available.

I would imagine 29 teams would be knocking on the doors for him if it holds any truth.

For us, he would be a great fit in our top 6.

What would you guys be willing to pay if he is available?
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03-24-2013, 11:39 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
Some interesting speculation.

Larry Brooks of new York post is speculating that Dallas could be jumping on a ship to rebuild and may possibly make Eriksson available.

I would imagine 29 teams would be knocking on the doors for him if it holds any truth.

For us, he would be a great fit in our top 6.

What would you guys be willing to pay if he is available?
He is a winger and we are loaded on the wings. No need to spend assets on something that isn't a big need.

Rather save and focus our assets for a upgrade at Center and a Top 4 Dman

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03-24-2013, 11:40 AM
  #422
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Yes, plugging in AHL checkers in their spots really hurts our chances.

I'm pretty sure making the playoffs is the goal this year. I'm not saying trade our 1st for rentals, just keep what we got.
You won't be plugging in AHL ers into the roles of Mac and Boz, thats just flat out wrong.

You will be moving NHL ers up the depth chart into their roles and having AHL s fill out 4th line minutes.

Your making a pretty unfounded assumption that these changes would stop us from making the POs, thats baseless fear mongering.

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03-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
Some interesting speculation.

Larry Brooks of new York post is speculating that Dallas could be jumping on a ship to rebuild and may possibly make Eriksson available.

I would imagine 29 teams would be knocking on the doors for him if it holds any truth.

For us, he would be a great fit in our top 6.

What would you guys be willing to pay if he is available?
Pretty sure Loui is most comfortable on the LW.

He would be a nice fit for any teams Top 6, but with JVR and Lupul manning our Top 6 LW's, he wouldn't be a must.

Although switching Lupul to RW could present itself as an interesting option.


The tough part is evaluation Eriksson's value. He'd absolutely cost a significant package. I am sure Dallas would want someone young enough, but controllable contract wise. Possibly something around a young NHL ready player, our 1st round pick and a blue chipper like Colborne/Biggs/Finn.

That is quite a significant package for that LW spot that isn't a desperate need for this franchise like our Top 4 Right Handed Defender or a #1 type of Center are, and goaltending could continue to be a question mark.

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03-24-2013, 11:43 AM
  #424
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He is a winger and we are loaded on the wings. No need to spend assets on something that isn't a big need.

Rather save and focus our assets for a upgrade at Center and a Top 4 Dman
I don't think I'd go that far.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
Some interesting speculation.

Larry Brooks of new York post is speculating that Dallas could be jumping on a ship to rebuild and may possibly make Eriksson available.

I would imagine 29 teams would be knocking on the doors for him if it holds any truth.

For us, he would be a great fit in our top 6.

What would you guys be willing to pay if he is available?
WHAT???????? a team sniffing around the edges of a PO spot is willing to continue rebuilding it's asset base??


OHHH!!! the horrors, the humanity, the the insanity of it.

For LE?
Nothing that i'm sure Newy is looking for.

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