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All Encompassing Tortorella Thread Pt. II

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Old
03-22-2013, 08:53 AM
  #151
Jabroni
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If I see another 3 on 2 where the puckhandler takes it outside the faceoff dots then hail mary's it toward the slot, I'm going to freak.
Extremely irritating. Hagelin had a 3 on 2 where he pulled up at the blue line, drifted towards the boards and his pass across was blocked.

The problem was they all came in on a line. Instead of being staggered where the puck could be dropped to the trailer, they gave themselves no options.

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03-22-2013, 08:55 AM
  #152
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You can't instill 'talent', I get that. But can you 'nurture', maybe 'prepare' talent so that it's ready at all times during a long season. Seems like saying 'the players worry about the offense' is lazy and a cop out.

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03-22-2013, 08:55 AM
  #153
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Offense NEEDS TO BE COACHED
Heresy!

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Old
03-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #154
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My general feeling towards this is that this is a situation that we cant really sign our way out of (we've tried..), i see it as a fundamental fault with the system that is being employed, and the biggest problem with that system is that its as rigid as a block of ice. Also, there is no plan B, so its "do or die" with Torts at the helm.

Last year it sort of worked because of the player material that we had, but then we traded most of them away (Anisimov, Prust, Dubi, Feds, etc).

This year, not so much... The player material that the Rangers have is absolutely top notch, it just cannot be employed in a grinding fashion, its utterly unsuitable for most of the team (in my opinion anyway).

The most scary part is that Torts doesnt see that. Maybe he doesnt want to see it.. maybe he cannot coach any other style.. what do i know.. the Rangers are suffering though.. and they really shouldnt with the players that they have.

ah well.. rant for the day
Good post. I genuinely like Tort's especially compared to Tom Renny, who always played and never sat the highest paid players and who used to wax poetic in every post game interview.

That being said, I would have no problem moving forward with a new coach and a different mindset.

However, I really don't see all this wonderful talent on our roster that people around here keep alluding to in their posts. The truth is we have been, are and will continue to be hard pressed to score goals no matter who ends up as the coach.

You wanna put the blame where it belongs, you need look no further than the GM who has accomplished absolutely nothing since he's been here and is completing his 13th year come July.

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Old
03-22-2013, 01:38 PM
  #155
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can't wait till this guy gets canned.

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Old
03-22-2013, 02:01 PM
  #156
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I feel like the Rangers need to ride out the year with Torts, but he needs to tweak the system - not change it completely.

First off, I don't buy the whole tuning him out or not playing for him anymore stuff. I dont think its like that. Of course I have nothing to prove that, but those that think thats the case dont have proof either. (yeah, take that)

I feel like Torts deserves a full camp, and hopefully, he'll make some needed adjustments and be less hard-headed on some issues (a la Giants Coughlin in 2007). With all of the player turnover this year he decided to stick with the exact gameplan due to the shortened practice schedule, gambled and lost.

I think its too late to drastically change anything right now (new coach) and it will reek of desperation. You dont want to send that signal to your team, even from upper management. I am hoping however that Torts loosens things up offensively and changes the way this team defends.

I think this team, especially defensively is trying uphold the reputation it built for itself last season. All of the new players coming in talked about blocking shots. It took on a life of its own, teams around the league emulated them...The difference is, the Rangers did it on instinct last season, while this year it is completely forced - especially from the new players (even Powe who is one of the best in the league) - and its forcing breakdowns all over the defense zone.

It has spiraled out of control and needs to stop. Forget that. Go back to basic positioning, let the play come to you and theyll actually start blocking more shots instead of deflecting pucks into their own net and running around trying to jump into lanes that put them out of position. The function below the goal line can stay, its the forwards that are screwing things up imo. I really thought that Sully would recognize this by now. Its gone on way too long.

Offensively they need to get off the ****ing wall and go back to how this team tried to play the day Torts was hired. If you recall, it was a hybrid of the system they play now. It was based on pinching from the defense with forwards rotating back to cover. It promoted more movement and more risk. It was more counter-attack based, but one of the problems back then is we didnt have enough speed. We may now with guys like Hags and Kreider and Nash's deceptiveness which are suited for the rush.

The functions in the neutral zone were pretty similar, but somehow this team has relied completely on dumping and wall work. End it. Adjust to the personnel. At this point its worth the risk if Lundqvist has to bail out this team with 4 or 5 huge saves every night anyway.

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03-22-2013, 02:31 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I feel like the Rangers need to ride out the year with Torts, but he needs to tweak the system - not change it completely.

First off, I don't buy the whole tuning him out or not playing for him anymore stuff. I dont think its like that. Of course I have nothing to prove that, but those that think thats the case dont have proof either. (yeah, take that)

I feel like Torts deserves a full camp, and hopefully, he'll make some needed adjustments and be less hard-headed on some issues (a la Giants Coughlin in 2007). With all of the player turnover this year he decided to stick with the exact gameplan due to the shortened practice schedule, gambled and lost.

I think its too late to drastically change anything right now (new coach) and it will reek of desperation. You dont want to send that signal to your team, even from upper management. I am hoping however that Torts loosens things up offensively and changes the way this team defends.

I think this team, especially defensively is trying uphold the reputation it built for itself last season. All of the new players coming in talked about blocking shots. It took on a life of its own, teams around the league emulated them...The difference is, the Rangers did it on instinct last season, while this year it is completely forced - especially from the new players (even Powe who is one of the best in the league) - and its forcing breakdowns all over the defense zone.

It has spiraled out of control and needs to stop. Forget that. Go back to basic positioning, let the play come to you and theyll actually start blocking more shots instead of deflecting pucks into their own net and running around trying to jump into lanes that put them out of position. The function below the goal line can stay, its the forwards that are screwing things up imo. I really thought that Sully would recognize this by now. Its gone on way too long.

Offensively they need to get off the ****ing wall and go back to how this team tried to play the day Torts was hired. If you recall, it was a hybrid of the system they play now. It was based on pinching from the defense with forwards rotating back to cover. It promoted more movement and more risk. It was more counter-attack based, but one of the problems back then is we didnt have enough speed. We may now with guys like Hags and Kreider and Nash's deceptiveness which are suited for the rush.

The functions in the neutral zone were pretty similar, but somehow this team has relied completely on dumping and wall work. End it. Adjust to the personnel. At this point its worth the risk if Lundqvist has to bail out this team with 4 or 5 huge saves every night anyway.
Everything is spot on, but especially this part. I remember thinking after Torts was hired, "I can't wait until they get players who can actually play in his up-tempo system". Well 3 years later we have alot more mobility as a team, and I would love for a little more "safe is death" as opposed to ill-timed dump-ins and blind cycling. I think we are seeing a little more of this with the way Del Zotto has been playing recently.

The Eastern Conference Champion Devils are what, 2 points ahead of the Rangers? The Flyers 2 years removed from a finals appearance are below the Rangers. They still have their coaches.

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Old
03-24-2013, 06:43 AM
  #158
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so boucher is available. any thoughts?

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03-24-2013, 06:57 AM
  #159
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so boucher is available. any thoughts?
I'm in only for the dashing scar and Bond villain look

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03-24-2013, 07:03 AM
  #160
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so boucher is available. any thoughts?
Wow. Tampa hasn't done well at all this season, but Boucher is a quality coach. Not sure why they fell apart so badly.

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03-24-2013, 09:27 AM
  #161
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Well we have an offense problem. Tampa definitely didn't have that.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:28 AM
  #162
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Let's just hope Tampa puts an interim coach into place and takes Sullivan starting next season.

Cleaning house on waivers these days, next guy in line should be Sully.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:34 AM
  #163
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So..

Guy Boucher had plenty of offense.. No Defense...

The Rangers have no offense and plenty of defense...

Hmmmmmmm....

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03-24-2013, 10:30 AM
  #164
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Boucher please

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #165
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boucher is interesting. cant be much worse than it is right now

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #166
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I'd do it just for the 1-3-1. Boucher has much more creativity than Torts that's for sure. Don't know how he'd work here though.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:24 AM
  #167
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Let's replace a coach who isn't winning with a solid lineup with another coach who wasn't winning with a solid lineup. That'll solve all our problems.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:40 AM
  #168
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Let's replace a coach who isn't winning with a solid lineup with another coach who wasn't winning with a solid lineup. That'll solve all our problems.
Difference is who is on the blue line and in goal. Offensively we match up with them well talent wise yet somehow they've score 30 more goals than us.

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #169
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Wow. Tampa hasn't done well at all this season, but Boucher is a quality coach. Not sure why they fell apart so badly.
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 2h
Key vet TB players were shutting down/tuning out. Yzerman much rather would've liked to assess at season's end, but problem was snowballing.

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03-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #170
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Difference is who is on the blue line and in goal. Offensively we match up with them well talent wise yet somehow they've score 30 more goals than us.
Anything we're good at, we're good at because of the players. Anything we're bad at, we're bad because of the coaching. Funny how that works.

TB's offensive guns are actually productive and having good seasons. We have Nash having a normal season and 2 big scorers along for the ride. If we had 3 big scorers playing like 3 big scorers, the difference wouldn't be very pronounced. As I've said in other threads, Richards and Gaborik's poor play is not because of Torts - it's on them and it's just awful.

There was a thread on the main boards just a few days ago about how Tampa wasn't standing up for each other and didn't have a hard, cohesive team identity. Sounds like this team. Boucher isn't the answer.

Try to move pieces around to get a real bottom 6. Try to get Richards and Gabby going or get rid of them. See how the team starts off next season with a well thought out lineup and a normal schedule.

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03-24-2013, 12:05 PM
  #171
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Anything we're good at, we're good at because of the players. Anything we're bad at, we're bad because of the coaching. Funny how that works.

TB's offensive guns are actually productive and having good seasons. We have Nash having a normal season and 2 big scorers along for the ride. If we had 3 big scorers playing like 3 big scorers, the difference wouldn't be very pronounced. As I've said in other threads, Richards and Gaborik's poor play is not because of Torts - it's on them and it's just awful.

There was a thread on the main boards just a few days ago about how Tampa wasn't standing up for each other and didn't have a hard, cohesive team identity. Sounds like this team. Boucher isn't the answer.

Try to move pieces around to get a real bottom 6. Try to get Richards and Gabby going or get rid of them. See how the team starts off next season with a well thought out lineup and a normal schedule.
I'm not arguing that it's all Torts fault, but his system is terrible. Do you really enjoy watchin our top two lines dump and chase? I don't. What happened to "safe is death"?

I'm not arguing that Boucher is the answer either he's a relatively unproven coach. But he knows the offensive side of things as they pertain to today's NHL.

I've been saying for quite awhile that Torts needs to let the top two lines play some hockey and encourage some creativity. He needs to lay off the macho man dictatorship as well. He isn't adapting to a changed roster, instead he's going to run guys out of town like Gaborik.

I like Torts and he has done a good job her sans this year, but no one is safe when a team with as high a talent level as we have will most likely miss the playoffs.

I think he's wore thin on the players to be honest.

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:13 PM
  #172
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Gaborik scored 40 goals in this system last year . Nash has been basically a point per game player on this system.

It's all so predictable. The same comments were made about Tom Renney.
I agree.

BUT, that's the one thing i'm worried about. The same things were said about Renney and I feel that's because Renney was getting ignored by the team. I think the Torts system can work(and would be working, if Gabby and Richie were playing like they were last year) but I think the issue is if Tort's suddenly lost the locker room.

Usually I think stuff like that is overblown, but Bickel crying about his ice time before going to the A and Richie's dazed and confused shtick have me wondering.

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:15 PM
  #173
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I'm not arguing that it's all Torts fault, but his system is terrible. Do you really enjoy watchin our top two lines dump and chase? I don't. What happened to "safe is death"?
Gaborik scored 40 goals in the system. Nash is basically a point per game player in this system.


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I've been saying for quite awhile that Torts needs to let the top two lines play some hockey and encourage some creativity.
De ja vu. The same thing was said about Renney.

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03-24-2013, 12:22 PM
  #174
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I agree.

BUT, that's the one thing i'm worried about. The same things were said about Renney and I feel that's because Renney was getting ignored by the team. I think the Torts system can work(and would be working, if Gabby and Richie were playing like they were last year) but I think the issue is if Tort's suddenly lost the locker room.

Usually I think stuff like that is overblown, but Bickel crying about his ice time before going to the A and Richie's dazed and confused shtick have me wondering.
1) 2 players struggling (albeit important ones) means he's lost the locker room?

2) I really don't think Bickel was "crying". And all the sudden he's a victim on a board test been kicking dirt on him since the first game of the season?

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #175
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1) 2 players struggling (albeit important ones) means he's lost the locker room?

2) I really don't think Bickel was "crying". And all the sudden he's a victim on a board test been kicking dirt on him since the first game of the season?
Richard's whole thing about "lost and confused" really reeks of something going on to me.

And Bickel really rubbed me the wrong way. He can't think he's NOT a fringe NHLer who got into a lot of games because of Torts. Then you go and subtly take a shot at him for not letting you get "confidence" by playing more. That's not good stuff.

I like Torts and think he's a good coach. I wish this board could forget this abomination of a short season and realize the Torts system (as well as Girardi having a career year with McD, while he's having a subpar one defensively this year) were huge for us being 1st in the East last year, and if Richie and Gabs were going we'd be comfortably over NJ for 2nd in the Atlantic now. But I just can't imagine what else would have the team looking so awful.

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