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Old
03-24-2013, 12:23 AM
  #576
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Maybe they have to trade Roy then... so be it. However, winning can be contagious. If this team collapses, then I don't see how much good can come of that. If they make the playoffs, perhaps even win a series... maybe Jagr comes back... maybe he helps convince Roy to come back, at least for another year... maybe not. That's the GM's call, if he truly believes the player will most likely not re-sign, then can't blame him for trading him before the deadline.
That's why we want to lose. The front office this team employees is a ****ing joke. The men behind the bench are a ****ing joke. Our fan base is a ****ing joke.

It's better to just throw all the **** away now, and then rebuild into something completely new that doesn't hang onto what happened ten years ago.

New GM, new coach, and higher picks will lead to a good foundation which will bring in fans. You can't build teams through free agency anymore. Players are locked up for decades now, and overpaid by massive amounts. You build through the draft and by playing your young stars. That's the new NHL, and we're a bit far off of that pace.

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03-24-2013, 12:24 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Only way Dallas would have any chance to get out of the first round is if Anaheim somehow get the #1 spot with DAL #8 or Dallas somehow gets the #7 spot with ANA #2.

For whatever reason, we actually line up well against them.
They've actually played some of their best hockey A) against the best teams (the exception being that blowout by Chicago) and B) on the road. It's not like they've only been beating bottom feeders at home (in fact they've done too little of that). Only team in West that worries me is Chicago, that could be an ugly series. Against anyone else, I would expect them to at least be somewhat competitive.

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03-24-2013, 12:30 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
That's why we want to lose. The front office this team employees is a ****ing joke. The men behind the bench are a ****ing joke. Our fan base is a ****ing joke.

It's better to just throw all the **** away now, and then rebuild into something completely new that doesn't hang onto what happened ten years ago.

New GM, new coach, and higher picks will lead to a good foundation which will bring in fans. You can't build teams through free agency anymore. Players are locked up for decades now, and overpaid by massive amounts. You build through the draft and by playing your young stars. That's the new NHL, and we're a bit far off of that pace.
If that's the case (and I'm not saying it isn't), then I guess you have to hope your owner isn't a joke as well. Hey, at least you guys are consistent in hating your management. I think it's just part of being a fan. Even strong teams with deep pockets seem to have large contingents of fans that question the management. Look at the Rangers and Flyers, they're struggling every bit as much or more with much higher expectations.

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03-24-2013, 12:35 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
If that's the case (and I'm not saying it isn't), then I guess you have to hope your owner isn't a joke as well. Hey, at least you guys are consistent in hating your management. I think it's just part of being a fan. Even strong teams with deep pockets seem to have large contingents of fans that question the management. Look at the Rangers and Flyers, they're struggling every bit as much or more with much higher expectations.
Yeah the only issue though, is their fans are loud and heard. Our GM has been making horrible mistakes for a while now, and there no sign of it ending.

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Old
03-24-2013, 12:52 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
Look at the Rangers and Flyers, they're struggling every bit as much or more with much higher expectations.
They at least have reason to have high expectations, New York especially.

This board would be going absolutely nuts (and I'm sure the NYR one is) if a team that talented was blowing it like they are.

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03-24-2013, 01:16 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
It's more than low expectations... it's predictions of and (semi-sarcastic?) hope for failure. It'll go down to the wire again, so might as well enjoy the ride.
It's not a hope for failure, it's an expectation of it. I'm going to assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you are following the Stars this year primarily because of Jagr. If this were a one year thing I would agree with you but it's not. Your previous post shows that you don't really have the context to draw a conclusion about what this team can or will do, nor are you in a position to call us out as fans.

Those of us who are "hoping" for failure do so because we have the long term in mind. I don't have faith in our coach nor do I have much faith in our GM. Questionable move after questionable move have led to perpetuation of mediocrity. We're tired of the same old story. We want to really win, not string together enough of them to squeak into the playoffs.

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03-24-2013, 01:32 AM
  #582
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Yeah...I'm not a huge fan of strictly Jagr supporters acting like they know the history of this team.

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03-24-2013, 01:42 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Brand New Stars View Post
Yeah...I'm not a huge fan of strictly Jagr supporters acting like they know the history of this team.
And then this...

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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
If they make the playoffs, perhaps even win a series... maybe Jagr comes back... maybe he helps convince Roy to come back, at least for another year... maybe not.
C'mon man. You had a point up until you said that Roy might come back for possibly just one year. That's just not how things work and you should know that.

I'm actually surprised you wouldn't want the Stars to trade Jagr to a contender. Then you'd get to watch your favorite player in the playoffs. It's better for the league if Jagr isn't back in Czech Republic while the playoffs are going on.

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03-24-2013, 02:04 AM
  #584
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Finishing in that 9-11 spot in the conference again AND holding on to our veterans because of delusions of grandeur after a few wins is the worst thing this franchise could do. Obviously they're not going to lose on purpose, but the end result had better not be the same as it has been the past few seasons. I'll flip my lid. I'm not drinking the "we almost made it" Kool-Aid anymore. Heck, as much as playoffs are great, I would rather tank than make it. I don't give a **** what position we're in come April, trade away.

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03-24-2013, 03:15 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
C'mon man. You had a point up until you said that Roy might come back for possibly just one year. That's just not how things work and you should know that.
It's fine if they decide to trade him, they have to do what they think is best. I can see why people want the Stars to trade Morrow, Roy... even Jagr. I just don't understand why they would want the team to lose and miss the playoffs, no matter who is on the roster. If you believe the owner will accept mediocrity at best... maybe occasionally squeaking into the playoffs and no more... then that's a problem with ownership, and it's rather difficult to have a successful team with bad ownership.

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I'm actually surprised you wouldn't want the Stars to trade Jagr to a contender. Then you'd get to watch your favorite player in the playoffs. It's better for the league if Jagr isn't back in Czech Republic while the playoffs are going on.
I root for Jagr and whichever team he's on, through thick and thin. That means injuries, slumps, weak or mediocre teams, whatever the case may be. I think it's part of the fun to see if he and the team can meet various challenges. For a team of this quality, the challenge is to make the playoffs and play competitively if they make it, perhaps win a series. Just because it's highly improbable the team will win the Cup isn't a reason to throw in the towel.

I don't think this team is much worse than the '07 Rangers, who might have been in the ECF if not for Drury's game 5 goal with a few seconds left. The Flyers almost won a Cup when they almost missed the playoffs in '10. You can't win a Cup without making the playoffs. Wanting them to lose, so that everyone gets fired, sounds like a losing mentality to me.

Sure, I'd like to see Jagr get another chance at a Cup run, but I don't think "this team isn't a Cup contender, I hope he gets traded to one." I don't pretend to bleed green and gold... just like I didn't pretend to bleed orange and black last season. I just think the attitude of getting a slightly better draft pick by missing the playoff is pretty lame. How have all those high picks done for Columbus, Edmonton, etc.? And that's multiple, very high picks.

Should the players just give up, because the GM made a couple bad trades in the past or the coach made some questionable decisions? Should the GM give up on the team, because they played like crap for a week or two? That's not how you build winning organizations IMO. The team needs to expect to win, to believe they can win... and then learn how to actually win when it counts. That's what the veterans are here to do, because they expect it, believe it, and should lead in doing so.

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Old
03-24-2013, 03:26 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
So with 17 games left, lets take a look at the past couple of seasons' last 17 games.

2011-12: 8-9-0
2010-11: 7-7-3
2009-10: 8-7-2
2008-09: 5-9-3

So basically has been .500 or below every single year the past 4 years. If the Stars were to equal last year's last 17, they would give them 49 pts....aka they're probably going to be sitting home come the end of April.
I remember all the hand-wringing with the Rangers:

2007- after 62 games they were 29-27-6... finished 13-3-4... had stretches of 3-6, 0-7, and 3-7-1

2008- after 59 games they were 28-24-7... finished 14-3-6... had stretches of 1-5-1, 2-6-2, and again 2-6-2

Yes, those teams are not this team... and this team isn't last year's team or the team of the year before that.

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03-24-2013, 06:05 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
I would say I remember that game, because I was at it.
But I actually don't remember it at all because it was a terrible game and there was like zero effort level.

EDIT: I also remember that Anaheim game because that ref totally kicked the puck at the net.

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03-24-2013, 07:19 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
It's fine if they decide to trade him, they have to do what they think is best. I can see why people want the Stars to trade Morrow, Roy... even Jagr. I just don't understand why they would want the team to lose and miss the playoffs, no matter who is on the roster. If you believe the owner will accept mediocrity at best... maybe occasionally squeaking into the playoffs and no more... then that's a problem with ownership, and it's rather difficult to have a successful team with bad ownership.
Really not trying to be rude because I've seen you on the main boards and generally respect your POV. You're just wrong here. It's not your place to judge us as a fanbase and with each post you illustrate a lack of understanding of our recent history.

Obviously, playoffs are better than no playoffs. But our team's management has shown a severe reluctance to make what most here consider the logical moves teams make in our circumstances. The Stars doing poorly is basically the only thing that will prove that the big picture moves need to take precedence over possible short term gains.

Your point about ownership is where you show your ignorance of our situation. The current owner is new in the last year and really hasn't had a chance to make this team his. This is his chance to force the issue if he desires.

I respect your right to be a fan of a player first and foremost but it's an entirely different thing than being a fan of a team.

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03-24-2013, 10:15 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Really not trying to be rude because I've seen you on the main boards and generally respect your POV. You're just wrong here. It's not your place to judge us as a fanbase and with each post you illustrate a lack of understanding of our recent history.

Obviously, playoffs are better than no playoffs. But our team's management has shown a severe reluctance to make what most here consider the logical moves teams make in our circumstances. The Stars doing poorly is basically the only thing that will prove that the big picture moves need to take precedence over possible short term gains.

Your point about ownership is where you show your ignorance of our situation. The current owner is new in the last year and really hasn't had a chance to make this team his. This is his chance to force the issue if he desires.

I respect your right to be a fan of a player first and foremost but it's an entirely different thing than being a fan of a team.
Yup. The problem though is the fan base. If Dallas was a place like Montreal, Toronto, or Edmonton where the fans show up regardless, it would be easier to look at the big picture. I'm scared they'll have delusions of grandeur and making a playoff push to excite fans will take precedence. We'll keep our veterans and finish 9th. Brutal.

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03-24-2013, 10:21 AM
  #590
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Guy Boucher fired.

Now's the time, Joe. This is probably his last chance to fix the coaching mess.

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03-24-2013, 10:24 AM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I've never seen a more negative fanbase. This team is on the cusp of a playoff spot and most "fans" are either hoping for a tank or predicting another collapse.

I'm not guaranteeing a playoff spot or anything, but this team has shown resilience. Now that Benn is starting to get it going again... Lehtonen & Whitney are healthy again... they have their fate in their hands and have a good chance. Yet all I hear about is the past... bad home stands, bad finishes to seasons, etc.

Have some faith. That's why making the playoffs is important, because it becomes a matter of faith and pride that the team can and will make the playoffs most years. The team collapsing again doesn't really accomplish anything except proving the naysayers right for another year.
Faith? Faith is the excuse one gives believe something based on lack of evidence. Look at what the team has done this season and in recent seasons and it's going to wear on the belief of a fanbase that they'll get over any kind of hump.

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03-24-2013, 10:25 AM
  #592
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I have no reason to feel this way because of recent history, but I have faith Morrow will be moved for certain. Regardless of how Dallas does against top teams in the conference in these next 4.

I also have faith something will happen with Roy. They won't just keep him without a contract. I think he'll likely be moved, but I'm not eliminating the possibility there's a surprise contract extension. There was quite a bit of Ott chatter to get moved just before they extended him as well. They obviously blinked and paid him what he wanted. On the other hand, more recently with Sheldon Souray and Jamie Benn, they've shown they'd hold firm so who knows.

Regardless ... I honestly don't feel Morrow and Roy will remain on Dallas' roster without a contract, and I don't believe they have any desire to re-sign Morrow.

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03-24-2013, 11:58 AM
  #593
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Guy Boucher fired.

Now's the time, Joe. This is probably his last chance to fix the coaching mess.
No way that happens now. No friggin' way.

Bad timing.

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03-24-2013, 12:38 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Really not trying to be rude because I've seen you on the main boards and generally respect your POV. You're just wrong here. It's not your place to judge us as a fanbase and with each post you illustrate a lack of understanding of our recent history.

Obviously, playoffs are better than no playoffs. But our team's management has shown a severe reluctance to make what most here consider the logical moves teams make in our circumstances. The Stars doing poorly is basically the only thing that will prove that the big picture moves need to take precedence over possible short term gains.

Your point about ownership is where you show your ignorance of our situation. The current owner is new in the last year and really hasn't had a chance to make this team his. This is his chance to force the issue if he desires.

I respect your right to be a fan of a player first and foremost but it's an entirely different thing than being a fan of a team.
I know the owner is new. What I was trying to say is that if the owner isn't good or doesn't have a championship as the eventual goal, then it may not matter much in the long term whether they tank or squeak into the playoffs, as it will be difficult to be successful.

It makes sense to trade Morrow for a decent return. Same with Roy, except he's more important to the success of this team this season. I wouldn't count on Roy returning, but stranger things have happened. He may not get the offer he wants in FA, due to questions over his health, and decide to sign somewhere for a year to prove he can still produce over a full season. He may get great offer(s) from bad team(s) and give a team like Dallas the chance to match. He may get a great offer from a contending team and never look back.

I'm not sure I lack that much understanding of the team's recent history, but I don't pretend to be an expert on this team. The situation as portrayed on this board is:

A) new owner
B) GM & coach that many, perhaps most, want fired
C) recent history of coming "oh, so close" to making the playoffs
D) some forwards whose contracts expire at the end of the season (Jagr, Roy, Morrow)

The "loyal" fans of this team seem to want:

A) team to lose and not make playoffs, so that
B) they get a better draft pick, and
C) it gets the GM & coach fired, hastening the rebuild of the organization

I guess that isn't so unique, as there are even Cup-winning coaches that fans want fired. If you're that sure that your GM & coach will not lead to success, then I understand wanting a change at those positions, just as you would at any position on the ice.

I think fans get too caught up in future visions of grandeur, instead of accepting that it's never easy in a 30 team NHL. Even with a great owner, great GM, great coach, high draft picks for a few consecutive years... there's no guarantee of success. Last year's Kings hadn't won a playoff series since 2001, but they had at least made the playoffs the previous two seasons. Making the playoffs is the first step towards present and future success.

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03-24-2013, 12:40 PM
  #595
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Saw another tweet earlier from The Hockey Mayor that said the situation in the Dallas room is almost exactly like what went down with Tampa. Apparently there's growing concern (as there ****ing should be)

If only I could be ****ing GM today. Would have Boucher signed and on a plane already.

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03-24-2013, 01:03 PM
  #596
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Saw another tweet earlier from The Hockey Mayor that said the situation in the Dallas room is almost exactly like what went down with Tampa. Apparently there's growing concern (as there ****ing should be)

If only I could be ****ing GM today. Would have Boucher signed and on a plane already.

Who is the mayor of hockey?

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03-24-2013, 01:04 PM
  #597
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Who is the mayor of hockey?
Hockey Manor

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03-24-2013, 01:05 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
I think fans get too caught up in future visions of grandeur, instead of accepting that it's never easy in a 30 team NHL. Even with a great owner, great GM, great coach, high draft picks for a few consecutive years... there's no guarantee of success.
Your obtuseness clearly exhibits utter ignorance about how the team has done in recent years and continue admonishing this fanbase for its impatience or "visions of grandeur." It's our management that has faux visions of playoff grandeur thinking any of its band-aid squads and its shoddy blueline corps were playoff bound.

Quote:
Last year's Kings hadn't won a playoff series since 2001, but they had at least made the playoffs the previous two seasons. Making the playoffs is the first step towards present and future success.
LA did make the playoffs twice before winning the cup, but they had a 4-5 year gap during which time they had a couple of opportunities where finished low enough and/or had the scouting to draft elite prospects like Doughty or Kopitar. Under JN, we haven't drafted any players who can in any manner be called "elite."

Again, please read up on facts before you stoop to pontificate.

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03-24-2013, 01:27 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Your obtuseness clearly exhibits utter ignorance about how the team has done in recent years and continue admonishing this fanbase for its impatience or "visions of grandeur." It's our management that has faux visions of playoff grandeur thinking any of its band-aid squads and its shoddy blueline corps were playoff bound.
Sorry if I'm being obtuse...



I think the team had a goal of making the playoffs this year, hence the signing of Jagr & Whitney, and they are making a good run at it. I don't see why them just missing the playoffs in recent years makes it a near certainty that they will do so again this year. The team is quite different than even last year, especially at forward.

Quote:
LA did make the playoffs twice before winning the cup, but they had a 4-5 year gap during which time they had a couple of opportunities where finished low enough and/or had the scouting to draft elite prospects like Doughty or Kopitar. Under JN, we haven't drafted any players who can in any manner be called "elite."
Maybe JN isn't the best GM and should be replaced, I'm not in position to say one way or another. A good GM can draft good players from the 10-14 position and in later rounds, not just in the top 5. I just wonder if the 2010 Flyers should have thrown in the towel, since they just about missed the playoffs... or whether the 2006 Canes should have tanked, since they didn't appear to be much of a contender entering the season. I guess I'll read up about which of the perpetually tanking teams will be in this year's finals. I'm guessing it should be Islanders or Toronto vs. Columbus or Edmonton?

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03-24-2013, 01:39 PM
  #600
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Saw another tweet earlier from The Hockey Mayor that said the situation in the Dallas room is almost exactly like what went down with Tampa. Apparently there's growing concern (as there ****ing should be)

If only I could be ****ing GM today. Would have Boucher signed and on a plane already.
So he's saying Tampa and Dallas are both bad situations, and you want the guy they just fired?

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