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Study on feasability of return of MLB to MTL (UPD Post #70)

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Old
03-21-2013, 02:44 PM
  #51
IcemanTBI
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I agree about the stadium. You need to watch baseball outside. The Big Owe, or any other indoor stadium, is not suited for baseball. It takes away from the atmosphere. Go down to Comerica Park in Detroit, or Yankee Stadium and watch a game.. much more enjoyable, beer in one hand, hot dog or burger in another, catching the rays all afternoon. That to me is baseball. Not in some awful, indoor stadium that looks like you are watching a game in some warehouse.

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03-21-2013, 04:35 PM
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If the Alouettes and Impact can thrive in outdoor stadiums just imagine what a major league baseball team would do. There is no f'ing way you can convince me a reasonably centrally located stadium for MLB would not be full in the summer. The Big O is one of the worst stadiums in MLB history. Take it from me, people didn't think San Francisco was a good baseball town when they played at Candlestick Park. The Giants and Expos in the late 80s/early 90s usually duked it out for last place in attendance. A new stadium (privately funded too) near downtown?



Also, can it with this hockey town crap. Hockey and baseball don't even share the same seasons and the Jays are going to blow the doors off the Skydome this year, and are you saying TO is not a hockey town?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It takes a billionaire to pony up.

Honestly, I suspect this US just propaganda so that someone can get a government subsidy to in the Expos.
Gov't subsidies are what big business look for. It would only be fair really, if the Quebec government is going to hand out taxpayer dollars so the Nordique fans can feel like they have a chance then it's Montreal's turn for some love.

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03-21-2013, 04:47 PM
  #53
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Jeff Loria killed the Expos, not the strike. The strike merely killed their chances at a World Series.

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03-21-2013, 05:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Habs Junkie View Post
Go to google maps and search the hippodrome. Then check distance to st. Leonard, mirabel, Kirkland, Brossard all between 15 and 20 km. also places like Vaudreuil and terrebonne, it's exactly in between.
You're missing the point. It's a simple one : If for someone living out west is was too complicated to go to the big O, well for people living relatively close (Rosemont, Mercier, St Leonard, etc) chances are that going out west will be too complicated.

I mean, if it takes (example) an hour to go from Kirkland to the O, you can safely bet it will take an hour to go from the O to Kirkland


and while coolasprICE is right and it seems anglos are more interested in baseball than francos, considering Baseball had problems attracting people in the past I dont think it would be such a great idea to have a new stadium too far east/west.

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03-21-2013, 05:11 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by no team needed View Post
jeff loria killed the expos, not the strike. The strike merely killed their chances at a world series.
x2 !!!!!

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Old
03-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #56
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This would have been nice.




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03-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #57
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instead of that stadium they build these fugly cheap looking ''budget'' condos

(sorry if you live there, they were good investments, but for that location, they are underwhelming)

****ing sick of this city... everything is done backwards.. prime real estate behind the bell centre... let's build a concert hall, an arts centre, a museum, a school, a baseball stadium, or at the very least high end luxury condos or office...

no wait, scratch that, lets use this prime land to build condos that will sell for 180K that would normally be built in a suburb if it was any other major metropolis in the world ...and lets put a Sushi Shop, an Amir, Couche tard ... and wait, lets HAVE A SUBWAY attached to the couche tard! that's brilliant!

This city is so amateur ...it's a joke

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03-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #58
Phil Parent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
instead of that stadium they build these fugly cheap looking ''budget'' condos

(sorry if you live there, they were good investments, but for that location, they are underwhelming)

****ing sick of this city... everything is done backwards.. prime real estate behind the bell centre... let's build a concert hall, an arts centre, a museum, a school, a baseball stadium, or at the very least high end luxury condos or office...

no wait, scratch that, lets use this prime land to build condos that will sell for 180K that would normally be built in a suburb if it was any other major metropolis in the world ...and lets put a Sushi Shop, an Amir, Couche tard ... and wait, lets HAVE A SUBWAY attached to the couche tard! that's brilliant!

This city is so amateur ...it's a joke
Don't talk **** about Sushi Shop. I'd move in if I could.

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03-22-2013, 02:30 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jee View Post
I don't want public fund touching any of this.
The reason why public funds are used to pay for sporting events is because they will generate as much tax income for the government on a long-term basis.

Just think of the bell center. Let's say each home game totals an average of 5K of tourists for 41 games a year, who spend in average 500$ per person in the duration of their visit to Montreal.

So 5000 x 41 x 500 = 102 500 000

Sale tax in Quebec for the provincial government is 9.975% so out of 102.5M$ it's 10 224 375$ per year. So the Bell centre which costed 270M$ originally to build (368M$ with inflation) 17 years ago, could already have generated more than 180M$ in tax revenue from tourists to the government on hockey games alone.

Yeah those numbers are pretty vague, but it's in my opinion a very good thing to see government $ spent on sporting infrastructure, because not only does the money invested gets reimbursed but because it eventually makes a profit.

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03-22-2013, 03:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
The reason why public funds are used to pay for sporting events is because they will generate as much tax income for the government on a long-term basis.

Just think of the bell center. Let's say each home game totals an average of 5K of tourists for 41 games a year, who spend in average 500$ per person in the duration of their visit to Montreal.

So 5000 x 41 x 500 = 102 500 000

Sale tax in Quebec for the provincial government is 9.975% so out of 102.5M$ it's 10 224 375$ per year. So the Bell centre which costed 270M$ originally to build (368M$ with inflation) 17 years ago, could already have generated more than 180M$ in tax revenue from tourists to the government on hockey games alone.

Yeah those numbers are pretty vague, but it's in my opinion a very good thing to see government $ spent on sporting infrastructure, because not only does the money invested gets reimbursed but because it eventually makes a profit.
That's how it works, in theory... thing is, we ave arguably the most corrupt politicians in North America so, ANY occasion for them to spend money is an occasion to waste taxpayers $.

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03-24-2013, 03:20 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
The reason why public funds are used to pay for sporting events is because they will generate as much tax income for the government on a long-term basis.

Just think of the bell center. Let's say each home game totals an average of 5K of tourists for 41 games a year, who spend in average 500$ per person in the duration of their visit to Montreal.

So 5000 x 41 x 500 = 102 500 000

Sale tax in Quebec for the provincial government is 9.975% so out of 102.5M$ it's 10 224 375$ per year. So the Bell centre which costed 270M$ originally to build (368M$ with inflation) 17 years ago, could already have generated more than 180M$ in tax revenue from tourists to the government on hockey games alone.

Yeah those numbers are pretty vague, but it's in my opinion a very good thing to see government $ spent on sporting infrastructure, because not only does the money invested gets reimbursed but because it eventually makes a profit.

That't the theory, but the problem is that in reality, after you go back and do an economic analysis after the fact, nearly every instance of public sports financing is pure corporate welfare and does nothing to help the economy. The idea is simply false.

This recent CBC report summarizes the research well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html

For a more acedemic overview see this: http://www.ualberta.ca/~bhumphre/papers/pfm2003.pdf

Abstract:
Quote:
Local political and community leaders and the owners of professional sports teams frequently claim that professional sports facilities and franchises are important engines of economic development in urban areas. These structures and teams allegedly contribute millions of dollars of net new spending annually and create hundreds of new jobs, and provide justification for hundreds of millions of dollars of public subsidies for the construction of many new professional sports facilities in the United Sates over the past decade. Despite these claims, economists have found no evidence of positive economic impact of professional sports teams and facilities on urban economies. We critically review the debate on the economic effects of professional sports and their role as an engine of urban economic redevelopment, with an emphasis on recent economic research

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03-24-2013, 03:34 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gelu88 View Post
That't the theory, but the problem is that in reality, after you go back and do an economic analysis after the fact, nearly every instance of public sports financing is pure corporate welfare and does nothing to help the economy. The idea is simply false.

This recent CBC report summarizes the research well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html

For a more acedemic overview see this: http://www.ualberta.ca/~bhumphre/papers/pfm2003.pdf

Abstract:
Thank you very much for this post.

Everybody needs to read this. I've had enough of these false arguments.

I don't want my taxe money to go to millionnaires and billionnaires while our schools are underfunded.

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03-24-2013, 04:36 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gelu88 View Post
That't the theory, but the problem is that in reality, after you go back and do an economic analysis after the fact, nearly every instance of public sports financing is pure corporate welfare and does nothing to help the economy. The idea is simply false.

This recent CBC report summarizes the research well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html

For a more acedemic overview see this: http://www.ualberta.ca/~bhumphre/papers/pfm2003.pdf

Abstract:
Well of course when it comes to sports funding it's much better for a society to have private instead of public funding.

But one can still argue that some investments are better than others. Of course the big O is a total failure and ended up costing taxpayers much more $ than it could generate. That's because the stadium is not used enough, not enough concerts, not enough sport... But then if you look at the Bell centre who is one of the most busiest amphitheater in North America can easily be argued to be a good investment of public funds.

It's all about the building's location, management and the economic situation of the city. Provincial and Federal investments are also better than loans, but private investments are always the best option.

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:55 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gelu88 View Post
That't the theory, but the problem is that in reality, after you go back and do an economic analysis after the fact, nearly every instance of public sports financing is pure corporate welfare and does nothing to help the economy. The idea is simply false.

This recent CBC report summarizes the research well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...iums-cost.html

For a more acedemic overview see this: http://www.ualberta.ca/~bhumphre/papers/pfm2003.pdf

Abstract:
Great post.

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03-24-2013, 05:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Thank you very much for this post.

Everybody needs to read this. I've had enough of these false arguments.

I don't want my taxe money to go to millionnaires and billionnaires while our schools are underfunded.
I just love when my tax dollars go to pay for more school adminstrators with 4 week vacations and iron clad pensions. All these school reforms have done wonders for high school dropout rates.

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03-24-2013, 05:39 PM
  #66
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I just love when my tax dollars go to pay for more school adminstrators with 4 week vacations and iron clad pensions. All these school reforms have done wonders for high school dropout rates.
Yep, just throw the baby out with the bathwater... let's get rid of all public funding for schools because of a few dollars badly managed : privatize alllllll, **** the poor !!

And btw, what's wrong with 4 weeks vacations ? Only in N-A

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Old
03-25-2013, 10:17 PM
  #67
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The team that will be up for grabs is the Tampa Bay Rays. MLB has given up on that market and I don't blame them. The team has been great in the last few years but have terrible attendance. Playoff games don't get sold out and I believe the year they made the world series you could get good tickets right before the game started.

Imagine Montreal got the Rays? They would be in the same division as Toronto, Boston, and New York. Honestly, with these teams coming to town, more than any others in the league, you would have good crowds.

Plus Toronto and Montreal would be natural rivals. I really think someone should step up. If the Jays do well this year (they are already going to make money) they will have a monopoly over baseball rights in Canada. I could see a major broadcasting corporation (Bell?) or a consortium trying to bring another team to Canada.

Honestly, I have the feeling that there is a group that has the resources to bring the expos back. There have been rumours of one for a couple of years ever since the expos merchandise have been a hot seller. I believe steve rodgers (former expos now mlbpa executive) spelled the beans last year sometime. Rodger Bruolette (sp?) was saying the same but no one ever believes him.

If the Jets can come back I believe anything happen. Considering Montreal has the population base bigger than most US markets with MLB teams. Also the MLB is known for granting teams to markets that had one at a previous point.

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04-06-2013, 11:34 AM
  #68
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http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/0...lRN/story.html

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04-06-2013, 01:21 PM
  #69
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So we've had Jim Caple, Jay Jaffe, Nick Cafardo and Charlie Pierce all write articles in the past 6-12 months on why MLB would be better in MTL. Other than Pierce we've had three in the last month. Nobody maybe as influential as Ken Rosenthal or Peter Gammons, but I'm getting the suspicion that Montreal Baseball Project's efforts are beginning to turn a few heads.

Strangely enough Jonah Keri is rather bearish about it despite being from Montreal. However, he hasn't lived in Montreal for years and I suspect he might be a little out of the loop. I wonder what his opinion will be once he's finished and is promoting his book on the Expos, which is out next year.

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12-12-2013, 11:01 AM
  #70
Phil Parent
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Project is viable. Private sector assumes cost of buying team in full, but gov' would need to pay for 66% of the stadium. Private sector would run the stadium, but gov would own it. Gov investement would be made up in full in 8 years via taxes and fiscality, and then would be profitable. Full project costs: roughly 1B. Team costs 525M, stadium 500M.

Stadium would have 36000 seats. Potential sites include Griffintown, the old Forum area, the Montreal's Children's Hospital area & the Montreal Hippodrome.

Team comes first, before the stadium. No team, no stadium. Team in the American League to foster natural rivalries with Toronto, New York, Boston.

Team would have payroll along league average.

Team would benefit from revenue sharing, but not that much.

70% of people surveyed would support it and be willing to pay 50$+ for tickets.

81% of businessmen surveyed would support it.

Cromartie says "We're in the ball game, and now we need a power hitter to clean up here."

Meaning a deep-pocketed investor...

Say, isn't there a major media conglomerate who just got knocked flat on its ass by the NHL who could use some prime programming...?


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12-12-2013, 11:22 AM
  #71
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I don't want public fund touching any of this.
My point of view stands still.

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Old
12-12-2013, 11:27 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Project is viable. Private sector assumes cost of buying team in full, but gov' would need to pay for 66% of the stadium. Private sector would run the stadium, but gov would own it. Gov investement would be made up in full in 8 years via taxes and fiscality, and then would be profitable. Full project costs: roughly 1B. Team costs 525M, stadium 500M.

Stadium would have 36000 seats. Potential sites include Griffintown, the old Forum area, the Montreal's Children's Hospital area & the Montreal Hippodrome.

Team comes first, before the stadium. No team, no stadium. Team in the American League to foster natural rivalries with Toronto, New York, Boston.

Team would have payroll along league average.

Team would benefit from revenue sharing, but not that much.

70% of people surveyed would support it and be willing to pay 50$+ for tickets.

81% of businessmen surveyed would support it.

Cromartie says "We're in the ball game, and now we need a power hitter to clean up here."

Meaning a deep-pocketed investor...

Say, isn't there a major media conglomerate who just got knocked flat on its ass by the NHL who could use some prime programming...?
Thanks but no thanks

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Old
12-12-2013, 11:47 AM
  #73
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Bell has 5 billions to spend, they can build the god damn stadium by themselves.

Don't want any cents of public money into this.

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12-12-2013, 11:49 AM
  #74
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Go down to Comerica Park in Detroit, (...)
I value my life too much for that.

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12-12-2013, 11:52 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
Strangely enough Jonah Keri is rather bearish about it despite being from Montreal. However, he hasn't lived in Montreal for years and I suspect he might be a little out of the loop. I wonder what his opinion will be once he's finished and is promoting his book on the Expos, which is out next year.
I doubt that very much. I've interacted with Keri on several occasions. He's well-connected to Montreal, despite his evolving assignments and sites he has written for, over the years. He's been on 690 for years, during the morning show, Price, Starr and Whatever Turd They Can Con As The Third Host.

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