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Old
03-24-2013, 02:02 PM
  #1
Oiler11
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Eberle and RNH

We're right around .500 with these guys stone cold. We might well be in the playoffs of they played up to their usual standards.

That said, if RNH is having shoulder problems, why not shut him down down for the year, like Hall last year? Get him the proper treatment, and prepare for the future. This season is almost a done deal now anyways. Same thing with Ebs. In his short career I have never seen him so ineffective. Why push these two through injuries and trash their confidence?

Hall is a perfect example for these two; call it a year, get the proper treatment and time to heal, then go 100% next season. Even if they can play through these injuries, their numbers clearly indicate it is no where near 100%.

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03-24-2013, 02:03 PM
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As far as I know, Eberle isn't injured

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03-24-2013, 02:09 PM
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Eberle just isn't as good as people think. All the real funny "unsustainable" comedians are really quiet these days now that they see that Eberle isn't going to be a league leader in shooting percentage every season.

Eberle is better than he is now, but not to the degree that he was last year. Nothing wrong with that but expectations need to be a little more realistic. Combine a more human level of shooting percentage and ability with the classic Sophomore slump (from RNH) and you have what we are seeing this year. Next season things should be a ittle bit better as RNH rounds out into more of what he should be and Eberle is brought along for the ride a little bit while easing back towards the normal level of play that he can bring.

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03-24-2013, 02:10 PM
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why not package both with our 1st for Tyler Seguin? heard the kid is a winnar, unlike these two bustos...

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03-24-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
Eberle just isn't as good as people think. All the real funny "unsustainable" comedians are really quiet these days now that they see that Eberle isn't going to be a league leader in shooting percentage every season.

Eberle is better than he is now, but not to the degree that he was last year. Nothing wrong with that but expectations need to be a little more realistic. Combine a more human level of shooting percentage and ability with the classic Sophomore slump (from RNH) and you have what we are seeing this year. Next season things should be a ittle bit better as RNH rounds out into more of what he should be and Eberle is brought along for the ride a little bit while easing back towards the normal level of play that he can bring.
If you think that Eberle "just isn't that good" then you haven't watched him outside of this season. He has a broken finger, was targeted heavy in OKC (as were all of our kids), and may have been nursing injuries to start the season. This is clearly not a healthy Eberle so you can laugh at the unsustainable crowd all that you want, but when he's healthy again he will not be an average shooter no matter how much "the stats crowd" thinks that he will.

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03-24-2013, 02:20 PM
  #6
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Eberle is going to have a great future in the NHL I am not worried about him. The same with Nuge as long as that shoulder doesn't act up too much in the future.

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03-24-2013, 02:21 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiler11 View Post
We're right around .500 with these guys stone cold. We might well be in the playoffs of they played up to their usual standards.

That said, if RNH is having shoulder problems, why not shut him down down for the year, like Hall last year? Get him the proper treatment, and prepare for the future. This season is almost a done deal now anyways. Same thing with Ebs. In his short career I have never seen him so ineffective. Why push these two through injuries and trash their confidence?

Hall is a perfect example for these two; call it a year, get the proper treatment and time to heal, then go 100% next season. Even if they can play through these injuries, their numbers clearly indicate it is no where near 100%.
TBH I don't think that any of Hall, Eberle, RNH, or Schultz are healthy right now. I could be wrong, but each of them have had to deal with issues this season where they were either questionable for games or missed games due to injuries. I just hope that they all come in at 100% next season.

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03-24-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
TBH I don't think that any of Hall, Eberle, RNH, or Schultz are healthy right now. I could be wrong, but each of them have had to deal with issues this season where they were either questionable for games or missed games due to injuries. I just hope that they all come in at 100% next season.
I think Hall and Schultz are fine. Schultz is just getting burnt out from the intense schedule this year. He's played a lot more than he's used to. What makes you say Hall's hurt?

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03-24-2013, 02:35 PM
  #9
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I think Hall and Schultz are fine. Schultz is just getting burnt out from the intense schedule this year. He's played a lot more than he's used to. What makes you say Hall's hurt?
Schultz got banged up about 10-15 games ago, he was DTD, since then he hasn't been nearly as effective. Hall's speed is nowhere where it was before his hamstring injury.

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03-24-2013, 02:44 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Schultz got banged up about 10-15 games ago, he was DTD, since then he hasn't been nearly as effective. Hall's speed is nowhere where it was before his hamstring injury.
So was he in your mind a top-4 defenseman before the injury?

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03-24-2013, 03:13 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If you think that Eberle "just isn't that good" then you haven't watched him outside of this season. He has a broken finger, was targeted heavy in OKC (as were all of our kids), and may have been nursing injuries to start the season. This is clearly not a healthy Eberle so you can laugh at the unsustainable crowd all that you want, but when he's healthy again he will not be an average shooter no matter how much "the stats crowd" thinks that he will.
I think Eberle has a long and solid career ahead of him, hopefully with the Oilers. Just don't see him as the star player that some folks do. People can argue with statistics and math all they want, but it sure does look like the "stats guys" have been right about Eberle this year. The broken finger is likely a small factor in the equation, but an inability to continue being superman is also a part of the equation.

Looking forward to watching him over the years as an Oiler though, as I have enjoyed watching him so far.

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03-24-2013, 03:29 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If you think that Eberle "just isn't that good" then you haven't watched him outside of this season. He has a broken finger, was targeted heavy in OKC (as were all of our kids), and may have been nursing injuries to start the season. This is clearly not a healthy Eberle so you can laugh at the unsustainable crowd all that you want, but when he's healthy again he will not be an average shooter no matter how much "the stats crowd" thinks that he will.
Eberle will have some trouble getting to the areas he needs to score goals and plays a smaller game, and more limited game, than Gagner. Eberle has always been suspect and somewhat indifferent to all zone play and his contract right now is looking like an overpay. I wouldn't have done it with this player either.

This is what a player looks like after the league has made a checking and coverage "correction". In short this is Eberle after the big success when he had nothing but offensive zone starts, and not as much scouting reports and focus on him.

Eberle's a good offensive player and should always be swinging for good pt totals which makes him solid in that regard. But when he's not doing that and not very good in NZ or own zone he's a problem.

He better get better. It would be tough to see him getting paid 6M to do this.

Eberle needs to hit the offseason hard and really improve his game.

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03-24-2013, 03:37 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Eberle will have some trouble getting to the areas he needs to score goals and plays a smaller game, and more limited game, than Gagner. Eberle has always been suspect and somewhat indifferent to all zone play and his contract right now is looking like an overpay. I wouldn't have done it with this player either.

This is what a player looks like after the league has made a checking and coverage "correction". In short this is Eberle after the big success when he had nothing but offensive zone starts, and not as much scouting reports and focus on him.

Eberle's a good offensive player and should always be swinging for good pt totals which makes him solid in that regard. But when he's not doing that and not very good in NZ or own zone he's a problem.

He better get better. It would be tough to see him getting paid 6M to do this.

Eberle needs to hit the offseason hard and really improve his game.
Agree with this post completely. His physical limitations will hold him back from really improving significantly though. He should be a solid 60-70 point guy if we can get our **** together.

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Old
03-24-2013, 03:38 PM
  #14
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Schultz has been near invisible in many games recently.. whereas earlier in the year he was definitely more noticeable.

I think in general teams just learn to adapt to what the Oilers have to offer. Every team has video and knows the one area where the Oilers are very good is their speed and ability to run and gun.

Open the doors up and the Oilers will very likely beat you... close them and you take away their only reliable weapons.

The Colorado game where they blew the doors off with 50+ shots and this game last night vs the Blues are polar opposites of how to play (and not play) versus the Oilers.

Bottle them up and crowd areas so they can't get any breakouts or passes going and you effectively neuter the team. Stay disciplined and don't take stupid penalties and you take away the Oilers only other weapon.

I don't think it's overly difficult for good coaching staffs to see the strengths and weaknesses of this Oilers team. They are pretty one-dimensional and are fodder for teams playing a strongly structured, stifling defensive system.

The only time the Oilers have a chance at winning is when teams don't play well defensively, the opposing goalie craps the bed or the opponent takes too many penalties and the Oilers PP burns them.

You can probably trace almost every Oilers victory to those factors. Good old luck sometimes comes into play as well.

Not every opponent is going to be able to play as tight as the Blues defensively or stay out of the box all night and the opposing goalies will sometimes have off nights... so the Oilers can still squeak out a win here and there and get a few extra pts in OT/SO situations.

Honestly I think many of the Oilers pts come from teams giving the Oilers the opportunities to win rather than the Oilers grabbing the game by the throat and taking those points.

It's a passive system they play... if the opponent makes openings which let their skillset perform they can win, if opponents are solid... no way they can win without some sheer luck on their side.

-Lack of mature talent (too many inexperienced players still learning the NHL game).

-Coaching not being able to come up with alternate strategies to counter opposing teams ability to shut the Oilers "one trick pony" gameplan down.

-Poor faceoff abilities that contributes to poor puck possession stats game after game.

-Many more giveaways and fewer takeaways than the opposition... again a sign of inexperience and playing against stifling defensive systems.

-injuries (but every team has them... not really a valid excuse).. except it exposes the lack of any real depth in the org.


Those are just a few of the many areas contributing to the Oilers mediocrity. Obviously management building a team based almost exclusively on speed and skill without taking into account a balanced roster built on size, physicality and strong defensive awareness is also a problem.

Oilers don't have enough good two-way players. It's all either pure skill or defense-first players.

The defense-first players are almost totally devoid of offense and are only mediocre defensively judging by how many shots the team allows... and the skilled offensive players are being shut down because teams trap and confine the spaces they need to be in to be effective.


No simple solutions outside of making roster changes in the summer and hoping for the younger players to improve and gain experience and eventually get better... OR blowing everything up entirely and becoming a trapping team that tries to eek into 8th place every year... ala Phoenix.

The blueprint from Katz on down has been to make this team an exciting, free wheeling team that outguns opponents and is entertaining to watch... win or lose... problem is that type of team takes time to reach a dominating level (and honestly may never get there in the West which is so restrictive defensively) and in the meantime watching them get shut down game after game makes for boring hockey... the exact opposite of what this team was "planned" to do.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 03-24-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old
03-24-2013, 04:15 PM
  #15
Hall2Nuge2Ebs
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I think these guys may very well be gassed. Look at nuge for example, a hectic AHL season, WJC, and then a condensed nhl season. I say they rebound in a big way next year and everyone on here will be eating crow

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03-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Schultz has been near invisible in many games recently.. whereas earlier in the year he was definitely more noticeable.

I think in general teams just learn to adapt to what the Oilers have to offer. Every team has video and knows the one area where the Oilers are very good is their speed and ability to run and gun.

Open the doors up and the Oilers will very likely beat you... close them and you take away their only reliable weapons.

The Colorado game where they blew the doors off with 50+ shots and this game last night vs the Blues are polar opposites of how to play (and not play) versus the Oilers.

Bottle them up and crowd areas so they can't get any breakouts or passes going and you effectively neuter the team. Stay disciplined and don't take stupid penalties and you take away the Oilers only other weapon.

I don't think it's overly difficult for good coaching staffs to see the strengths and weaknesses of this Oilers team. They are pretty one-dimensional and are fodder for teams playing a strongly structured, stifling defensive system.

The only time the Oilers have a chance at winning is when teams don't play well defensively, the opposing goalie craps the bed or the opponent takes too many penalties and the Oilers PP burns them.

You can probably trace almost every Oilers victory to those factors. Good old luck sometimes comes into play as well.

Not every opponent is going to be able to play as tight as the Blues defensively or stay out of the box all night and the opposing goalies will sometimes have off nights... so the Oilers can still squeak out a win here and there and get a few extra pts in OT/SO situations.

Honestly I think many of the Oilers pts come from teams giving the Oilers the opportunities to win rather than the Oilers grabbing the game by the throat and taking those points.

It's a passive system they play... if the opponent makes openings which let their skillset perform they can win, if opponents are solid... no way they can win without some sheer luck on their side.

-Lack of mature talent (too many inexperienced players still learning the NHL game).

-Coaching not being able to come up with alternate strategies to counter opposing teams ability to shut the Oilers "one trick pony" gameplan down.

-Poor faceoff abilities that contributes to poor puck possession stats game after game.

-Many more giveaways and fewer takeaways than the opposition... again a sign of inexperience and playing against stifling defensive systems.

-injuries (but every team has them... not really a valid excuse).. except it exposes the lack of any real depth in the org.


Those are just a few of the many areas contributing to the Oilers mediocrity. Obviously management building a team based almost exclusively on speed and skill without taking into account a balanced roster built on size, physicality and strong defensive awareness is also a problem.

Oilers don't have enough good two-way players. It's all either pure skill or defense-first players.

The defense-first players are almost totally devoid of offense and are only mediocre defensively judging by how many shots the team allows... and the skilled offensive players are being shut down because teams trap and confine the spaces they need to be in to be effective.


No simple solutions outside of making roster changes in the summer and hoping for the younger players to improve and gain experience and eventually get better... OR blowing everything up entirely and becoming a trapping team that tries to eek into 8th place every year... ala Phoenix.

The blueprint from Katz on down has been to make this team an exciting, free wheeling team that outguns opponents and is entertaining to watch... win or lose... problem is that type of team takes time to reach a dominating level (and honestly may never get there in the West which is so restrictive defensively) and in the meantime watching them get shut down game after game makes for boring hockey... the exact opposite of what this team was "planned" to do.
to me the biggest piece missing for the oilers if they want to play the fast break run and gun style is puck moving d men. Whitney and petry are great passers but smid, nschultz, fristic/peckham/potter are all not and if we plan on playing that style we need more guys capable of making a clean breakout pass quickly and accurately

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03-24-2013, 04:20 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
I think these guys may very well be gassed. Look at nuge for example, a hectic AHL season, WJC, and then a condensed nhl season. I say they rebound in a big way next year and everyone on here will be eating crow
This

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03-24-2013, 04:25 PM
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They aren't even close to .500. They've won 11 of 30 games. The loser point is deceiving.

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03-24-2013, 05:11 PM
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Eberle isnt as good as he was last season now? Every player doesnt just keep getting more points every season. This short season will be one that no one even notices after his career. Expect the kid to be a consistent 80 pt player, and 40 goal scorer.

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03-24-2013, 05:16 PM
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why not package both with our 1st for Tyler Seguin? heard the kid is a winnar, unlike these two bustos...

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03-24-2013, 05:22 PM
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Even as one of the older kids, Eberle is still so young and will grow. Look at great players in this league like the Sedins or Patrick Sharp. Even this terrible year for Eberle is better than anything those players were doing when they were 3-4 years older than him. He is going to be a very good NHL player.

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03-24-2013, 06:08 PM
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Eberle has mailed it in all year. I've said that since game one, he hasn't turned it around. Besides picking up a bunch of secondary assists, his production is terrible.

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03-24-2013, 06:18 PM
  #23
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The kids are still kids. They clearly have the talent to play at the NHL but get banged up too easily. As other posters have stated, Eberle has a broken finger and RNH is having issues with his shoulder. We need more guys that will battle in the corners and get the puck for them.

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03-24-2013, 06:19 PM
  #24
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Hard to imagine that Gagner is only 1 year older than Eberle.

Gagner has always been considered expendable for a bigger forward while Eberle has been considered a core piece. If Gagner outperforms Eberle again next year, do we maybe consider moving Eberle and keeping Gagner?

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03-24-2013, 06:27 PM
  #25
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Eberle is starting to look a little too much like Hemsky lately.

RNH had better be hurt now or he is going to have a hard time being a #1 center. Hopefully he packs on some pounds and gets his shoulder repaired. I think he should get surgery soon if it is that much of a problem. But the Oilers don't like to be honest about injuries.

Schultz, benefited from playing a large role in OKC at the start of the season, the length of season is showing on him lately too. Really he should not have been expected to be a first pairing dman yet.

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