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AAA U18 or Junior B?

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #1
JB51Hockey
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AAA U18 or Junior B?

Can someone help me out here and tell me which leagues are best in terms of advancement and skill?

NAPHL U18
T1EHL U18
Empire
Met

Thanks!

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02-05-2013, 06:07 PM
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3rd Guy High
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U18 is more competitive. No contest.

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02-05-2013, 07:25 PM
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I would definitely say that you are better off with either the NAPHL or T1EHL. I see more kids progressing from them than I do from the Empire or Met.

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02-09-2013, 09:44 AM
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Blue Liner
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AAA 18U all day, every day. NAPHL and Tier 1 Elite are both good, and the HPHL is smaller in terms of the number of teams in the league but very strong, as well. HPHL also has a "guest" division in which they play exhibition games against comprised of Shattuck St. Mary's, Culver Academy, and some other NAPHL and Tier 1 teams.

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03-14-2013, 02:23 PM
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Marotte Marauder
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Depends on your age. Underage Midgets should play U18AAA.

If you are nearing the end of Midget eligibility, play against the older guys in JR.

Not many "old" Midgets advance out of U18AAA, in the States anyway.

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03-24-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Depends on your age. Underage Midgets should play U18AAA.

If you are nearing the end of Midget eligibility, play against the older guys in JR.

Not many "old" Midgets advance out of U18AAA, in the States anyway.

By "old" Midgets do you mean those in their final year of eligibility? As in, someone who's a '95 that played Midget this year? If so, that's not true, at least in the States. Midget Majors that are in their final year are still scouted, drafted, tendered by Junior A programs extensively, especially compared to Junior B. Overall and generally speaking, Midget Major is better hockey and more competitive than any Junior B (or Tier III Junior A, whatever you want to call it...it's Junior B) league is and scouted much more heavily.

I'd say even someone who's a late '94 playing this year would still be better served playing Midget AAA. It raises some questions why they aren't playing Junior already but everyone's got a different story or reasoning for things. You still see a lot of these kind of players being scooped up by Junior A clubs. AAA is still scouted more and you'll have more eyes on you.


Last edited by Blue Liner: 03-24-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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03-25-2013, 05:33 PM
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Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
By "old" Midgets do you mean those in their final year of eligibility? As in, someone who's a '95 that played Midget this year? If so, that's not true, at least in the States. Midget Majors that are in their final year are still scouted, drafted, tendered by Junior A programs extensively, especially compared to Junior B. Overall and generally speaking, Midget Major is better hockey and more competitive than any Junior B (or Tier III Junior A, whatever you want to call it...it's Junior B) league is and scouted much more heavily.

I'd say even someone who's a late '94 playing this year would still be better served playing Midget AAA. It raises some questions why they aren't playing Junior already but everyone's got a different story or reasoning for things. You still see a lot of these kind of players being scooped up by Junior A clubs. AAA is still scouted more and you'll have more eyes on you.
My experience, here in the States, is that you're likely not going anywhere (meaning Major Jr or D-1) if you are playing your final Midget year(s) at AAA.

Most are plucked by the time they are sophomores or junior in High School. The "real" players anyway. Just like AAA, not Top 6 you are a fund raiser for those in the Top 6. Sad but true, IME.

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03-25-2013, 06:36 PM
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There are 95's galore this year that are moving on to play in the USHL and NAHL next year and of those many will surely move on to play Division I as happens every year. There are even more 96's that have committed to DI schools already that will be playing for their programs' Midget Major programs next year just like many '95's did this year who had already committed. Exceptions being some players who will get occasional call-ups throughout the season with USHL and NAHL clubs as was the case with some 95's this year. Many others without a Junior call-up this season that are moving on up.

As for as going Major Junior, I'm in agreement with you. Most who do it do so by the time they are at their final year of Midget eligibility.

This has kind of gotten away from the original poster's question, though. All this aside, you're still better off playing Midget Major than Junior B as a 17-18 year old/senior in high school. D-I, USHL, and NAHL scouts at every game in Midget Major. Not so much in Junior B.


Last edited by Blue Liner: 03-25-2013 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Typo, afterthought.
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03-26-2013, 11:06 AM
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Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
There are 95's galore this year that are moving on to play in the USHL and NAHL next year and of those many will surely move on to play Division I as happens every year. There are even more 96's that have committed to DI schools already that will be playing for their programs' Midget Major programs next year just like many '95's did this year who had already committed. Exceptions being some players who will get occasional call-ups throughout the season with USHL and NAHL clubs as was the case with some 95's this year. Many others without a Junior call-up this season that are moving on up.

As for as going Major Junior, I'm in agreement with you. Most who do it do so by the time they are at their final year of Midget eligibility.

This has kind of gotten away from the original poster's question, though. All this aside, you're still better off playing Midget Major than Junior B as a 17-18 year old/senior in high school. D-I, USHL, and NAHL scouts at every game in Midget Major. Not so much in Junior B.
Very few D1 committed players go from AAA direct to D1, many go the NDTP way or a couple of years of Jrs.

Very, very few will be playing Jr. A or D1 if the have not already moved on from AAA MM before they age out. Many 95's are already playing NAHL and USHL. The draft coming uo is for 96's already.

The rarity is someone undrafted, didn't make camp, non-D1 committed to suddenly appear on the radar in their final year of AAA MM.

If you have specific examples. I'd be glad to consider them, but they will remain the outliers.

btw-I went to the NCAA D1 Hockey site and looked at the 1st rosters listed to find Illinois guys. Found 5, some I know, none played MM their last year of eligibility. Most actually played MM underage and then moved on.


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03-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Very few D1 committed players go from AAA direct to D1, many go the NDTP way or a couple of years of Jrs.

Very, very few will be playing Jr. A or D1 if the have not already moved on from AAA MM before they age out. Many 95's are already playing NAHL and USHL. The draft coming uo is for 96's already.

The rarity is someone undrafted, didn't make camp, non-D1 committed to suddenly appear on the radar in their final year of AAA MM.

If you have specific examples. I'd be glad to consider them, but they will remain the outliers.
Never once disputed any of that. No one goes right from Midget Major to DI. You also rarely will suddenly jump on to the radar your final year if you haven't been already to at least some extent. It does happen, but it's rare. There are a number of Midget Major players that haven't been drafted prior to their final Midget year that do get tendered or drafted during that final year, however, especially in the NAHL. Happens a lot. USHL it happens less, but still happens. What I did say, however, is those committed players still return to play for their Midget Major teams in their final year and often go on to junior after that. So to say no one playing their final Midget Major year is going anywhere like you originally did was false. You better clarified that fact in your last post so I see where you're coming from now.

I still stand by the fact that I'd tell any 17-18 year old/senior in high school to play Midget Major over Junior B, costs/being able to afford to play notwithstanding. You're still going to be seen by way more people and if you don't get any sniffs at all you always have Junior B to fall back on the year after that once your Midget eligibility is up. You're still giving yourself the best option to possibly get a look and the hockey is still better and more competitive. If nothing comes of it, then you always have Junior B to fall back on if that's truly your ceiling the year after that when you can no longer play youth hockey. Again, all of this is the cost of playing notwithstanding, though playing Junior B in the States most of the time isn't cheap, either, especially when you account for billeting costs on top of having to pay to play and other expenses depending on the organization.

None of this is a slight on Junior B at all, either. That's a great avenue for a lot of players and is a way to move your way up to NCAA D-III, ACHA, and in some cases up to Junior A even as someone who's over high school age. I spent some time at that level, myself.

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03-26-2013, 01:09 PM
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Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Never once disputed any of that. No one goes right from Midget Major to DI. You also rarely will suddenly jump on to the radar your final year if you haven't been already to at least some extent. It does happen, but it's rare. There are a number of Midget Major players that haven't been drafted prior to their final Midget year that do get tendered or drafted during that final year, however, especially in the NAHL. Happens a lot. USHL it happens less, but still happens. What I did say, however, is those committed players still return to play for their Midget Major teams in their final year and often go on to junior after that. Not been my experience at all. So to say no one playing their final Midget Major year is going anywhere like you originally did was false. You better clarified that fact in your last post so I see where you're coming from now.

I still stand by the fact that I'd tell any 17-18 year old/senior in high school to play Midget Major over Junior B, costs/being able to afford to play notwithstanding. You're still going to be seen by way more people and if you don't get any sniffs at all you always have Junior B to fall back on the year after that once your Midget eligibility is up. You're still giving yourself the best option to possibly get a look and the hockey is still better and more competitive. If nothing comes of it, then you always have Junior B to fall back on if that's truly your ceiling the year after that when you can no longer play youth hockey. Again, all of this is the cost of playing notwithstanding, though playing Junior B in the States most of the time isn't cheap, either, especially when you account for billeting costs on top of having to pay to play and other expenses depending on the organization.

None of this is a slight on Junior B at all, either. That's a great avenue for a lot of players and is a way to move your way up to NCAA D-III, ACHA, and in some cases up to Junior A even as someone who's over high school age. I spent some time at that level, myself.
I'd never slight anyone's playing level, ever. Players top at where they top out, no shame whatever that level may be.

My personal opinion, as a parent of a player is this; Top 6 AAA, okay let's keep the dream alive, bottom 6- we aren't made of money. Playing Jrs. while in High School, keep the dream alive. Player MM senior year or sometimes beyond- let's get real find a school you like and maybe they have an ACHA team.

Some of the College recruiting camps do a good job laying that out. Red Berenson hasn't spoken with you somewhere along the way by the time you are a Soph/Jr in High School, don't sit by the phone, D1 isn't calling. Not playing Jr.s in High School? DIII is unlikely. The rest, pick a good school, play ACHA if you want to keep playing.

Mostly you and I are in agreement.

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03-26-2013, 01:25 PM
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There's also different Division I expectations. If you're talking the top 10, 15 schools perennially, sure, you probably know by the time you're a junior in high school or that following summer that you're going to be going in that direction. However, there are a lot of Division I programs outside of those where Freshmen are often 19, 20, even 21 years old and guys going to those schools don't play their first Junior A action until after they've graduated high school, many times still being Midget Majors their final year. Even the top college commitments often are 19 as Freshmen as most places want a year or two of junior first. 18 year old true freshmen are the exception, not the norm, in hockey. A lot of guys commonly start as 19 and 20 year old freshman and still get a full four-year ride to a Division I school, which is ultimately the goal for most.

At the end of the day it's all about what your realistic expectations are and what each individual is looking to do. It's a lot for a kid and a family to decide. Very unlike any other sport. Everyone has a different opinion and philosophy and that's great.

The Division III realm is another world altogether as far as what's "normal" for a starting age and where you had to have played prior at a certain age to make it. It's a very wide spectrum.

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03-26-2013, 01:51 PM
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Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
There's also different Division I expectations. If you're talking the top 10, 15 schools perennially, sure, you probably know by the time you're a junior in high school or that following summer that you're going to be going in that direction. However, there are a lot of Division I programs outside of those where Freshmen are often 19, 20, even 21 years old and guys going to those schools don't play their first Junior A action until after they've graduated high school, many times still being Midget Majors their final year. Even the top college commitments often are 19 as Freshmen as most places want a year or two of junior first. 18 year old true freshmen are the exception, not the norm, in hockey. A lot of guys commonly start as 19 and 20 year old freshman and still get a full four-year ride to a Division I school, which is ultimately the goal for most.

At the end of the day it's all about what your realistic expectations are and what each individual is looking to do. It's a lot for a kid and a family to decide. Very unlike any other sport. Everyone has a different opinion and philosophy and that's great.

The Division III realm is another world altogether as far as what's "normal" for a starting age and where you had to have played prior at a certain age to make it. It's a very wide spectrum.
I do not see evidence of that. Of the 40-50 D1 players from Illinois, I've now checked 7 (from the Atlantic Div-not powerhouses), none played MM in their final year of eligibility.

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03-26-2013, 02:21 PM
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The Junior A club I work for, currently we have 10 players tendered from this season who were playing Midget Major their final year to do so and will play for us next year. The similar has been done the past two seasons (and has been done by many other teams in our league) and we've had 18 Division I commitments the past two seasons, with more likely to come before this summer, and are among one of the best teams in our league in that time span. That doesn't include the draft which will likely have a mix of 96's and 95's. There are college coaches scouting 95's all the time (or whatever the older year is in any given season) keeping tabs on them for after they play junior next year and maybe even the year after. See and chat with them at the rinks all the time.

Everything varies from program to program and you can find results all over the map everywhere you look for whatever you side you're looking for.

We generally agree and should probably just leave it at that before we keep going in circles The bottom line is there are lot of options for the young hockey player and it's up to them and their family to make the decision that is best for them.


Last edited by Blue Liner: 03-26-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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03-26-2013, 02:38 PM
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Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
The Junior A club I work for, currently we have 10 players tendered from this season who were playing Midget Major their final year to do so and will play for us next year. The similar has been done the past two seasons (and has been done by many other teams in our league) and we've had 18 Division I commitments the past two seasons, with more likely to come before this summer, and are among one of the best teams in our league in that time span. That doesn't include the draft which will likely have a mix of 96's and 95's. There are college coaches scouting 95's all the time (or whatever the older year is in any given season) keeping tabs on them for after they play junior next year and maybe even the year after. See and chat with them at the rinks all the time.

Everything varies from program to program and you can find results all over the map everywhere you look for whatever you side you're looking for.

We generally agree and should probably just leave it at that before we keep going in circles The bottom line is there are lot of options for the young hockey player and it's up to them and their family to make the decision that is best for them.
Your club must have cornered the market.

I thought of the Chicago 6 at Notre Dame and the 3 at Madtown and none of those boys finished at MM either. All together that's nearly 1/3 of all Illinois D1 players already??

If you are able to get comits for those boys that's great, keep up the good work. Any names we may recognize?

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03-26-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Your club must have cornered the market.

I thought of the Chicago 6 at Notre Dame and the 3 at Madtown and none of those boys finished at MM either. All together that's nearly 1/3 of all Illinois D1 players already??

If you are able to get comits for those boys that's great, keep up the good work. Any names we may recognize?
I'll take your word for it! I honestly don't know how many Illinois DI players there currently are. Now that I scout around here I'll have a much better idea going forward from here on out, but I do know there are quite a few currently making us proud.

There could be some recognizable names if you're in the know as you seem to be with a child/children who play as we do currently have four Chicago kids tendered with possibly one or two more on the way. No shortage of talent in this area, that's for sure.

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03-26-2013, 03:16 PM
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I'll take your word for it! I honestly don't know how many Illinois DI players there currently are. Now that I scout around here I'll have a much better idea going forward from here on out, but I do know there are quite a few currently making us proud.

There could be some recognizable names if you're in the know as you seem to be with a child/children who play as we do currently have four Chicago kids tendered with possibly one or two more on the way. No shortage of talent in this area, that's for sure.
Absolutely no shortage of talent. Our biggest problem is people unscrupulously selling the dream to the kids and parents. Hockey should not be a business at the youth level!

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03-26-2013, 03:19 PM
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Yeah it's unfortunate that it's gotten that way. Something's wrong when you have agencies approaching families about their 13 year old.

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03-26-2013, 04:18 PM
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Things are changing on the east coast this year. The USPHL is shaking everything up. Junior B on the east coast is probably going to take the biggest hit as you now have a new level of talent with the Premier league.

Cant speak for anything out west, but as of right now the east is looking like this:

USPHL

EJHL AJHL
USPHL U18


Junior B

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