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The Trade Proposal Thread 2013

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Old
03-24-2013, 03:57 AM
  #951
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by kassian View Post
Buffalo without Vanek is gurananteed to be at Toronto-post lockout level. And you know how bad that is...
Buffalo with Vanek is turning into Toronto 2009-2011 with Kessel. And you know how bad that is...

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03-24-2013, 03:58 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Agreed.
Buffalo is in 10th place, 2 points from a PO spot.

Now imagine, Buffalo trades Vanek AND get in PO and loose in first round because of lack of offense.

For now, Calgary, Florida and Colorado are the only ones who would be sellers now.
In a week we could see Buffalo, Philadelphia, NYI and Edmonton added to that list.
Disagree...Buffalo is 2 points from TYING Carolina and that being said Carolina has 2 games in hand and not only that even if Buffalo wins their next game and Carolina loses theirs..Buffalo is still out I believe so that's kinda moot. Tell me what would you do if you were a GM and all you needed was 2 points to POSSIBLY make the post season..would you be a buyer or a seller? tough choice eh are you a band aid GM or a realist. I look at Tampa..they only need 2 wins and a tie and their in..big deal 5 points...easy to make up does your analogy of only needing 2 points really mean anything...it's tight from 14th to 8th doesn't mean 8th place on up they all start losing.

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03-24-2013, 04:04 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Marian Hossa was worth a 1st rounder, 4th liner Eric Christensen, 3rd liner Colby Armstrong, and fringe prospect Angelo Esposito.

Rick Nash (with several years left on his contract, not a rental) was worth a 1st rounder, Artem Anisimov, Brandon Dubinski, and Tim Erixon.

Chris Pronger was worth a 1st rounder, Luca Sbisa, and Joffrey Lupul.

Is Vanek is worth as much or more than them, as you believe? No.

You basically equated Vanek to Pronger, Hossa, and Nash.
Hossa was an impending UFA.

Nash had requested a trade.

Pronger was in his mid-30s.

Why would Vanek not be worth the equivalent of the above? I don't see any reason why Vanek would be worth less than Nash, for example.

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03-24-2013, 04:20 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Hossa was an impending UFA.

Nash had requested a trade.

Pronger was in his mid-30s.

Why would Vanek not be worth the equivalent of the above? I don't see any reason why Vanek would be worth less than Nash, for example.
Nash is better than Vanek, and comes packaged with a long-term contract at fair market value.

Hossa did not come packaged with a long-term contract, but he is a vastly superior player to either Nash or Vanek.

Pronger did not come with a long-term contract, but he was the best player mentioned on the page.

Vanek is a better Cammalleri, or a lesser Semin. You'd want him on the team, but you shouldn't break the bank for him.

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03-24-2013, 04:21 AM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Habsfan2992 View Post
Disagree...Buffalo is 2 points from TYING Carolina and that being said Carolina has 2 games in hand and not only that even if Buffalo wins their next game and Carolina loses theirs..Buffalo is still out I believe so that's kinda moot. Tell me what would you do if you were a GM and all you needed was 2 points to POSSIBLY make the post season..would you be a buyer or a seller? tough choice eh are you a band aid GM or a realist. I look at Tampa..they only need 2 wins and a tie and their in..big deal 5 points...easy to make up does your analogy of only needing 2 points really mean anything...it's tight from 14th to 8th doesn't mean 8th place on up they all start losing.
We are saying the same thing.
Vanek is not for sale because Buffalo is very near from a PO spot.

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:38 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
We are saying the same thing.
Vanek is not for sale because Buffalo is very near from a PO spot.
Not really,if it came right down to it not knowing if I was going to end the season in 9th or MAYBE making 8th, I'd sell. With the possibility of being 9th and getting a crap draft pick I'd strive more towards the future and trade Vanek to ensure something half decent meaning a high pick and a roster player. Even with Vanek in their line up I'm sure they know they don't have enough depth to go anywhere in the post season. So my vote if our team was the Sabres................sell!
just my opinion anyways.







Oh and sell to the Habs

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Old
03-24-2013, 06:10 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Nash is better than Vanek, and comes packaged with a long-term contract at fair market value.

Hossa did not come packaged with a long-term contract, but he is a vastly superior player to either Nash or Vanek.

Pronger did not come with a long-term contract, but he was the best player mentioned on the page.

Vanek is a better Cammalleri, or a lesser Semin. You'd want him on the team, but you shouldn't break the bank for him.
How is Nash better than Vanek?

Other than rookie campaigns:
Vanek: 82-43-41-84
Nash: 78-40-39-79
Vanek: 80-32-41-73
Nash: 80-38-31-69
Nash: 76-33-34-67
Nash: 75-32-34-66
Vanek: 73-40-24-64
Vanek: 82-36-28-64
Vanek: 78-26-35-61
Nash: 82-30-29-59
Nash: 75-27-30-57
Vanek: 71-28-25-53

Looks roughly the same to me.

Nash had also requested a trade, which lowers his value.

Nash's cap hit is $7.8m, which is not fair value. At the time of the trade, that was the 5th highest cap hit in the NHL. Nash is not the fifth best player in the NHL. He is not a top 20 player.

Columbus' GM stated that Rick Nash controlled the trade negotiations, as he held a NTC. Nash only wanted to play for a handful of teams.

Hossa is a completely different trade as he was an impending UFA. Even if he's vastly superior, he holds significantly less value as he was a rental. Your unwillingness to acknowledge this is baffling.

Pronger, too, is very different, as he was on the decline in his career.

...

Nash is easily a good benchmark for Vanek. Hossa and Pronger less so, but worth keeping in mind for what stars could return. Your placement of Vanek as somewhere in between Semin and Cammalleri is peculiar and demonstrative of a lack of appreciation or knowledge for Vanek's overall game.

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Old
03-24-2013, 06:11 AM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Habsfan2992 View Post
Jesus...are you serious? I'd hate what to think you'd offer for Perry or Getz if they were still available
As noted above, this is probably around market value. It's similar to what was paid for Nash--probably a bit less, in fact, and Nash was dealt under strenuous circumstances. Buffalo doesn't need to move Vanek. Expect to pay even more, frankly.

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Old
03-24-2013, 10:05 AM
  #959
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Vanek would commend a bigger price than Nash. he's a better player and consistently plays better than Nash. Nash's value imho is in part based on his performances with Team Canada and is a bit inflated. Nash needs to be well surrounded to perform, Vanek seems to make players around him better.

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03-24-2013, 10:10 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
Vanek would commend a bigger price than Nash. he's a better player and consistently plays better than Nash. Nash's value imho is in part based on his performances with Team Canada and is a bit inflated. Nash needs to be well surrounded to perform, Vanek seems to make players around him better.
Nash can perform well by himself.

Vanek seems like a player who can always elevate himself slightly based on what he has to play with. If he plays with crap, he'll be good. If he plays with good players, he'll be great. If he plays with great players, he'll be elite. If he plays with elite players, he'll be a franchise player.

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03-24-2013, 10:59 AM
  #961
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Nash can perform well by himself.

Vanek seems like a player who can always elevate himself slightly based on what he has to play with. If he plays with crap, he'll be good. If he plays with good players, he'll be great. If he plays with great players, he'll be elite. If he plays with elite players, he'll be a franchise player.
Yeah within those parameters I much prefer Vanek and I think a lot of GMs would agree. Anyhow I forgot that the price for Nash was probably too high to begin with. So Duby & Anisimov sound about right. We'd have to give up Eller for sure and I don't think this board would like that at all.

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03-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Marian Hossa was worth a 1st rounder, 4th liner Eric Christensen, 3rd liner Colby Armstrong, and fringe prospect Angelo Esposito.

Rick Nash (with several years left on his contract, not a rental) was worth a 1st rounder, Artem Anisimov, Brandon Dubinski, and Tim Erixon.

Chris Pronger was worth a 1st rounder, Luca Sbisa, and Joffrey Lupul.

Is Vanek is worth as much or more than them, as you believe? No.

You basically equated Vanek to Pronger, Hossa, and Nash.
Yes he is... and that's actually a very fair proposal, something we don't see very often on HF.

I'd do it... except I'd try to replace Beaulieu with Thrower...

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:59 PM
  #963
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Same here. I love Eller and have ripped almost every proposals that included him but I would trade him and Beaulieu and our late first and late second for Vanek. Admittedly I'm not sold on Beaulieu though and I think if we are to trade a prospect it could be him since he holds good value but is not irreplaceable in the organization's depth chart. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent and a real sniper, something we haven't had in a while.

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Old
03-24-2013, 02:51 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by Guilliam View Post
Same here. I love Eller and have ripped almost every proposals that included him but I would trade him and Beaulieu and our late first and late second for Vanek. Admittedly I'm not sold on Beaulieu though and I think if we are to trade a prospect it could be him since he holds good value but is not irreplaceable in the organization's depth chart. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent and a real sniper, something we haven't had in a while.
If Vanek doesn't like it here and won't resign with us, Bergevin is more or less toast.

I'd trade Beaulieu, a 1st and a roster player for him, I'd prefer the player to be Gionta because salary needs to be moved to balance the books for next year.

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Old
03-24-2013, 03:15 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Vanek doesn't like it here and won't resign with us, Bergevin is more or less toast.

I'd trade Beaulieu, a 1st and a roster player for him, I'd prefer the player to be Gionta because salary needs to be moved to balance the books for next year.
Well that is a risk. But if we're a competitive team amd we'll have about just as much money as anybody else to convince him to stay.

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:19 PM
  #966
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Hello guys

we will have long jam of forwards when Prust, Bourque come back so could we possibly get descent player with size if we were to trade Ryder, Moen in package along with our second round pick?
This could be good setup trade with another team going into playoff.

which team is best suitable for this kind of trade?

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:40 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Habs4ever View Post
we will have long jam of forwards when Prust, Bourque come back so could we possibly get descent player with size if we were to trade Ryder, Moen in package along with our second round pick?
This could be good setup trade with another team going into playoff.

which team is best suitable for this kind of trade?
I don't see us trading Ryder unless it's for an obvious upgrade.

Gionta would make much more sense though that's problematic too.

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:52 PM
  #968
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I really don't want to trade Eller and Beaulieu, but it would be hard to say no to someone like Vanek...

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Old
03-24-2013, 04:58 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
If Vanek doesn't like it here and won't resign with us, Bergevin is more or less toast.

I'd trade Beaulieu, a 1st and a roster player for him, I'd prefer the player to be Gionta because salary needs to be moved to balance the books for next year.
So would I... but not Buffalo and certainly not Gionta who would laugh at MB's proposal, hang up the phone... then be pissed all season long screwing our chances to get better... so let's not involve his name around these trade proposals.

Vanek has a year left on his contract, so he's not strickly a rental and with the new CBA, it would improve our chances to re-sign him with the 8th year.

His value is sky high.

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Old
03-24-2013, 07:31 PM
  #970
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Same here. I love Eller and have ripped almost every proposals that included him but I would trade him and Beaulieu and our late first and late second for Vanek. Admittedly I'm not sold on Beaulieu though and I think if we are to trade a prospect it could be him since he holds good value but is not irreplaceable in the organization's depth chart. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent and a real sniper, something we haven't had in a while.
That is called way over payment. Vanek is a good player but I wouldn't even consider him a true allstar every year. He had 61 points last year,he doesn't play on the PK or hit or fight or shut down other players,he is just an offensive player that only got 61 points. You are willing to give up a 6'2 210 centre that can score while playing on the third line,play a shut down role, oh and he is 23 years old. Plus Beaulieu a first round pick in 2011 that looks to be an offensive defensemen we will need when Markov retires. Plus this years 1St and 2nd round picks?
That is a worst trade than the Kessel trade. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent ?when does an elite offensive talent only get 61 points in a season? in 8 years Vanek has only scored a point a game pace once.

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Old
03-24-2013, 07:47 PM
  #971
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That is called way over payment. Vanek is a good player but I wouldn't even consider him a true allstar every year. He had 61 points last year,he doesn't play on the PK or hit or fight or shut down other players,he is just an offensive player that only got 61 points. You are willing to give up a 6'2 210 centre that can score while playing on the third line,play a shut down role, oh and he is 23 years old. Plus Beaulieu a first round pick in 2011 that looks to be an offensive defensemen we will need when Markov retires. Plus this years 1St and 2nd round picks?
That is a worst trade than the Kessel trade. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent ?when does an elite offensive talent only get 61 points in a season? in 8 years Vanek has only scored a point a game pace once.
Vanek to me is a perennial all star LW, every bit as good as Nash, just not as hyped due to Nash playing for Canada. Would be a huge addition,though my biggest fear is he would walk in 16 months.

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Old
03-24-2013, 08:07 PM
  #972
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That is called way over payment. Vanek is a good player but I wouldn't even consider him a true allstar every year. He had 61 points last year,he doesn't play on the PK or hit or fight or shut down other players,he is just an offensive player that only got 61 points. You are willing to give up a 6'2 210 centre that can score while playing on the third line,play a shut down role, oh and he is 23 years old. Plus Beaulieu a first round pick in 2011 that looks to be an offensive defensemen we will need when Markov retires. Plus this years 1St and 2nd round picks?
That is a worst trade than the Kessel trade. Vanek is an elite offensivd talent ?when does an elite offensive talent only get 61 points in a season? in 8 years Vanek has only scored a point a game pace once.
Well I don't have as much faith in Beaulieu as you seem to have. I think at this point he has just as many chances to become a PP specialist than a true top-4 D. I hope I'm wrong.

When I said our first and our second it's probably around 25th and 55th.

I know that's a lot but I just want this kind of elite finisher on this team and I don't see us getting one on the free agent market.

Now that I looked at his stats he hasn't been as consistent as I thought, so maybe that offer was a bit generous. But I would pay more for him than for Semin, no doubt.


Last edited by Guilliam: 03-24-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old
03-24-2013, 08:20 PM
  #973
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Could WPG be a good potential trade partner for us? They have size and grit to spare at forward. How could we fit their needs?

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Old
03-24-2013, 08:41 PM
  #974
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Vanek to me is a perennial all star LW, every bit as good as Nash, just not as hyped due to Nash playing for Canada. Would be a huge addition,though my biggest fear is he would walk in 16 months.
Your biggest fear should be that the Habs braintrust would risk so much of the future, to acquire a player that is a one dimensional,a truly offensive player.My belief in Bergevin as the Habs GM,is that no player is bigger than the team,therefore Vanek would create Panic not cohesion.Unless a player will be a piece of the whole picture, a complete player,that puts his team before himself,Bergevin won't allow his presence to infect his Habs.IMHO.

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Old
03-24-2013, 09:16 PM
  #975
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Your biggest fear should be that the Habs braintrust would risk so much of the future, to acquire a player that is a one dimensional,a truly offensive player.My belief in Bergevin as the Habs GM,is that no player is bigger than the team,therefore Vanek would create Panic not cohesion.Unless a player will be a piece of the whole picture, a complete player,that puts his team before himself,Bergevin won't allow his presence to infect his Habs.IMHO.
I really don't see Vanek as a selfish one dimensional player. I think he would be great on Plek's wing.

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