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Capitals @ Rangers 3/24/13

View Poll Results: Three Players of the Game?
Henrik Lundqvist 45 54.88%
Marian Gaborik 8 9.76%
Chris Kreider 20 24.39%
Arron Asham 32 39.02%
Darroll Powe 2 2.44%
Dan Girardi 1 1.22%
Martin Biron 5 6.10%
Anton Stralman 1 1.22%
Michael Del Zotto 26 31.71%
Ryan McDonagh 8 9.76%
Steve Eminger 3 3.66%
Roman Hamrlik 1 1.22%
Rick Nash 2 2.44%
Derek Stepan 43 52.44%
Carl Hagelin 4 4.88%
Taylor Pyatt 1 1.22%
Ryan Callahan 9 10.98%
Anyone but Beaver 15 18.29%
Brian Boyle 3 3.66%
Kris Newbury 5 6.10%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:25 PM
  #251
Leetch2McDonagh27
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i would say jam but beaver doesnt have any...i cannot explain this one
is Beaver sucking so bad because of Torts system....where he just dumps the puck aimlessly into the corners for the opposing D to retrieve

Or has his skills deteriorated (albeit it slipped just enough) where he can no longer perform at a high level (like he has for the past few years). I mean, he was never the fastest, guy, nor had the hardest shot. His Hockey sense and IQ is what carried him to be able to make plays. Except he hasn't ANY plays in ages. I don't remember the last positive thing he has donw for this team. He has not made or set up any passes nor plays. Hell, he can't even connect a single pass to a teammate. He shoots wide EVERYTIME on the opportunities that he has on goal. The last time he did anything for this team was his Game 7 opening goal and the 6.6 seconds Goal in last year's Playoffs.

So the question is.......is he really done as a premier player? Or is this a Bi-product of this Pathetic Tortorella system??? Or both???

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03-24-2013, 11:26 PM
  #252
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So Torts changed the lines because he wanted Kreider to "chase down pucks" for Richards and Nash. So Kreider, the scorer, shooter and power forward is reduced to a Carl Hagelin clone in Torts' mind? What a clown.
Torts and his coaching staff have mentioned many occasions to Kreider that they want him to watch how Hags plays and model his game after him..........

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03-24-2013, 11:26 PM
  #253
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Girardi had one of his bad games today. Eminger got more minutes, actually.

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03-24-2013, 11:27 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Leetch2McDonagh27 View Post
is Beaver sucking so bad because of Torts system....where he just dumps the puck aimlessly into the corners for the opposing D to retrieve

Or has his skills deteriorated (albeit it slipped just enough) where he can no longer perform at a high level (like he has for the past few years). I mean, he was never the fastest, guy, nor had the hardest shot. His Hockey sense and IQ is what carried him to be able to make plays. Except he hasn't ANY plays in ages. I don't remember the last positive thing he has donw for this team. He has not made or set up any passes nor plays. Hell, he can't even connect a single pass to a teammate. He shoots wide EVERYTIME on the opportunities that he has on goal. The last time he did anything for this team was his Game 7 opening goal and the 6.6 seconds Goal in last year's Playoffs.

So the question is.......is he really done as a premier player? Or is this a Bi-product of this Pathetic Tortorella system??? Or both???
I suspect that it is his game deteriorating more than anything else. He is at the age that some of these guys begin to lose it.

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03-24-2013, 11:27 PM
  #255
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Girardi had one of his bad games today.
So did Stralman. Not a bad effort but we need to start finding ways to win.

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03-24-2013, 11:32 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Leetch2McDonagh27 View Post
is Beaver sucking so bad because of Torts system....where he just dumps the puck aimlessly into the corners for the opposing D to retrieve

Or has his skills deteriorated (albeit it slipped just enough) where he can no longer perform at a high level (like he has for the past few years). I mean, he was never the fastest, guy, nor had the hardest shot. His Hockey sense and IQ is what carried him to be able to make plays. Except he hasn't ANY plays in ages. I don't remember the last positive thing he has donw for this team. He has not made or set up any passes nor plays. Hell, he can't even connect a single pass to a teammate. He shoots wide EVERYTIME on the opportunities that he has on goal. The last time he did anything for this team was his Game 7 opening goal and the 6.6 seconds Goal in last year's Playoffs.

So the question is.......is he really done as a premier player? Or is this a Bi-product of this Pathetic Tortorella system??? Or both???
Probably a combination of both. Although I am not quite sure if it is or isn't the shorten season. It could be that he needs a proper camp. I am skeptical that a guy of his skill set can so dramatically fall apart so quickly.

What I can say is that Richards does not fit a grinding hockey system. Gab-Richards-Nash is not a grinding line. That is a transitional/puck possession line.

Richards does not have the size, strength, or agility to play below the hash marks effectively. Richards is a guy who needs to play high in the Ozone or in the gaps. The only way you can play grind/grit with Richards is with two physically dominating players with decent hands. Gabs does not fix that description at all. Nash is solid on the boards but he is the only one on that line.

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03-24-2013, 11:36 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
I suspect that it is his game deteriorating more than anything else. He is at the age that some of these guys begin to lose it.
I agree with you that it may be diminishing returns. But such a dramatic change?

I don't know man, I don't think its completely his age catching up.

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03-24-2013, 11:42 PM
  #258
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I'm not even pissed about this. I'm just sad.

Torts on Kreider: "I want someone who can go in and chase pucks down on the first line."

That's not Kreider's game or purpose! Jesus this guy is so clueless with the personnel he as on his team right now. The roster transitioned from dump and chase the coach should adjust with them. He's throwing round pegs in square holes right now and getting frustrated that its not working. Well no **** its not working man.

Guy Boucher is not the answer. Trap is not the answer. We need someone who will come in here and preach similar intensity to Torts but emphasize offensive execution a lot more. Ya know, Mike D'Antoni was a good transition coach to get the Knicks from point A to point B but once the Knicks traded for that star player they needed a coaching change. Whether that be a change in mindset needed for the locker room or a slight tune up of coaching styles it was needed, and while the Knicks have had their struggles this season the change has definitely paid dividends for the most part.

I like John, I respect him, but his style is no longer for this team. Just my two cents.

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03-24-2013, 11:44 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Girardi had one of his bad games today. Eminger got more minutes, actually.
The bad games are becoming his normal games

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03-24-2013, 11:46 PM
  #260
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Probably a combination of both. Although I am not quite sure if it is or isn't the shorten season. It could be that he needs a proper camp. I am skeptical that a guy of his skill set can so dramatically fall apart so quickly.

What I can say is that Richards does not fit a grinding hockey system. Gab-Richards-Nash is not a grinding line. That is a transitional/puck possession line.

Richards does not have the size, strength, or agility to play below the hash marks effectively. Richards is a guy who needs to play high in the Ozone or in the gaps. The only way you can play grind/grit with Richards is with two physically dominating players with decent hands. Gabs does not fix that description at all. Nash is solid on the boards but he is the only one on that line.

and that's what I'm getting to. Even if his skills have eroded in the last year or two (he still put up 66 points for us last year and was clutch in the PO's), just on the sheer Law of Averages....he would have a decent/good game here and there. And that is what is frightening. He hasn't. Nothing he does works. His passes are astray. His Decision making is absent minded. Drop passes to no one but the opposition. Glorious Point Blank chances and he Misses the Net, EVERYTIME!!! And to top it off, hes a HUGE defensive liabilty (always has been, we know it is not his job).

I mean........he just hasn't made any good plays time and time again for weeks and weeks now. One would think the Averages have to balance out sooner than later no? Like he could actually get a goal and couple assists in one of these Games???

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03-24-2013, 11:47 PM
  #261
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The bad games are becoming his normal games
Girardi is playing hurt since he took that bomb from PK in the ankle.
He needs some time off.

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03-24-2013, 11:51 PM
  #262
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Girardi is playing hurt since he took that bomb from PK in the ankle.
He needs some time off.
Staal should be back with us shortly. That will fix a good amount of the problems on the backend. Some of the guys are getting too many minutes . Not to mention, Torts is having a problem with match ups.

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03-24-2013, 11:53 PM
  #263
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I would say the #1 priority right now is to get Nash back with Stepan. Then, get Miller back with Cally.

If it means trying Krieder-Richards-Gabs together for a game, so be it.

Personally, I would love to bury Richards with 4th line minutes; but that aint going to happen.

IMO, if Torts directly acknowledges Richards struggles with demotion: That could make him look REALLY bad to Sather. Especially, if the team starts turning it around..


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03-24-2013, 11:53 PM
  #264
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I don't buy the lack of camp excuse for a quarter of a second for Richards anymore. That idea had legs when we were three weeks into the season. By now though, he should have gotten into form if it was just a matter of not having a camp.

Moreover, if you're really watching him play, I don't think it has anything to do with Torts' (awful) system. He's playing timid. He's hesitating. He's not looking before he tries a pass. He's not willing to challenge defenders one on one. He gets rid of the puck quickly and sloppily when pressured. His poise is greatly diminished. It is not, even remotely, all on the system.

Sure, he could probably produce a bit more in a better offensive system, but he is not playing like a talented player. He looks like a good third line center at best. He's not at the point where he's so washed up that he can't hack it in the NHL anymore but he's deteriorated to the point where he is about 3.5m overpaid with regards to what he can actually offer.

He just isn't playing with the poise or confidence of a star player right now. He looks like a slow Matt Lonbardi or an older Tim Connolly. Run of the mill third liners. Not a superstar on a massive 10 year contract.

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03-24-2013, 11:55 PM
  #265
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Staal should be back with us shortly. That will fix a good amount of the problems on the backend. Some of the guys are getting too many minutes . Not to mention, Torts is having a problem with match ups.
Should tell us something that Girardi at 90% is more trusted than any other RD to play top pairing minutes.

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03-24-2013, 11:56 PM
  #266
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So why did Hagelin get an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for diving? I wasn't listening and didn't understand.

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03-24-2013, 11:59 PM
  #267
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Considering we were down 2-0 so early getting a point isnt the worst thing. I still think Torts needs to go, its clear he's lost the room and his stubborn attitude to adaptation will be our downfall. If Torts isn't gonna get canned, at least hire another assistant to run the offence and PP and let Torts and Sully play with each other or whatever.

I thought Gabby looked good, Stepan continued his great efforts, Hags and Kreider were flying today. Boyle looked good on faceoffs, our 4th line had a good grinding and forechecking game. Nash is being dragged down by Richards, and as our best forward this needs to be rectified.
Since we're down 1 contract I expect Sather to fill that spot pretty soon, either Zucc or a trade. I wouldn't mind it being Zucc actually.
Ideal lines would be Hags - Nash - Stepan, Kreider - Richards - Callahan, Zucc - Miller - Gabby, Pyatt/Powe/Asham on the wings with Boyle at C on the 4th line

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03-25-2013, 12:04 AM
  #268
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This team needs Marc Staal back. There's just something about him that makes me feel more comfortable about our D corps

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03-25-2013, 12:09 AM
  #269
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Staal brings a good first pass out of the zone as well as his hardness on the puck . PMD is not just rushing the puck . Our first pass has sucked

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03-25-2013, 12:15 AM
  #270
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This team seriously needs to practice shooting. Their accuracy is awful. I bet a guy with no hands who shoots with his feet has better accuracy than 90-95% of our guys.

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03-25-2013, 12:19 AM
  #271
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People were complaining about Torts teaching Kreider "defense".

Now, he's trying to get Kreider to play MORE in the offensive zone, and people are chastising him?

Look, I'm not a fan of Tortorella's recent decision making, but I actually think this is a very good move by Torts. If Kreider is chasing down pucks, it gets him more involved in the play, gets him on the puck, and it teaches him puck possession. He has the tools to be an offensive force, this is adding another dimension to his game. Hagelin is a fantastic player. He doesn't have a great shot or a big frame. He's not a great finisher. Yet he's still a legitimate top-6 player. Why? His forechecking and puck pursuit skills. He's a hound on the puck. He creates a ton of scoring chances. Tortorella wants to try and get that from Kreider, and if Kreider can learn to do it even half as well as Hagelin, it will completely open up his game. Tortorella knows that if Kreider learns to be strong on the puck and with the puck on his stick, he'll be a very dangerous player with his shot. He'll have the puck more, get into the speed of the game more, and he'll learn to use his size along the boards. He has the speed to be an elite puck retriever, so there is absolutely no reason Tortorella should't be telling him to use that skill.

On the topic of Kreider, I think he has looked very good thus far. He was OK against the Panthers, made a few nice plays, but tonight, he looked very sharp. I think he could have scored a goal or two if his linemates could get the puck out of the defensive zone. He seemed confident every time he was on the ice. I think it's only a matter of the right line combinations, and a little bit of time before Kreider starts scoring in bunches.

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03-25-2013, 12:23 AM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
People were complaining about Torts teaching Kreider "defense".

Now, he's trying to get Kreider to play MORE in the offensive zone, and people are chastising him?

Look, I'm not a fan of Tortorella's recent decision making, but I actually think this is a very good move by Torts. If Kreider is chasing down pucks, it gets him more involved in the play, gets him on the puck, and it teaches him puck possession. He has the tools to be an offensive force, this is adding another dimension to his game. Hagelin is a fantastic player. He doesn't have a great shot or a big frame. He's not a great finisher. Yet he's still a legitimate top-6 player. Why? His forechecking and puck pursuit skills. He's a hound on the puck. He creates a ton of scoring chances. Tortorella wants to try and get that from Kreider, and if Kreider can learn to do it even half as well as Hagelin, it will completely open up his game. He'll have the puck more, get into the speed of the game more, and he'll learn to use his size along the boards. He has the speed to be an elite puck retriever, so there is absolutely no reason Tortorella shouldn't be telling him NOT to use that skill.

On the topic of Kreider, I think he has looked very good thus far. He was OK against the Panthers, made a few nice plays, but tonight, he looked very sharp. I think he could have scored a goal or two if his linemates could get the puck out of the defensive zone. He seemed confident every time he was on the ice. I think it's only a matter of the right line combinations, and a little bit of time before Kreider starts scoring in bunches.
I agree.
But as part of the growing pains, there will be the occasional bad game. Which is perfectly normal for a kid his age. Just hope Torts doesn't banish him.

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03-25-2013, 12:25 AM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
People were complaining about Torts teaching Kreider "defense".

Now, he's trying to get Kreider to play MORE in the offensive zone, and people are chastising him?

Look, I'm not a fan of Tortorella's recent decision making, but I actually think this is a very good move by Torts. If Kreider is chasing down pucks, it gets him more involved in the play, gets him on the puck, and it teaches him puck possession. He has the tools to be an offensive force, this is adding another dimension to his game. Hagelin is a fantastic player. He doesn't have a great shot or a big frame. He's not a great finisher. Yet he's still a legitimate top-6 player. Why? His forechecking and puck pursuit skills. He's a hound on the puck. He creates a ton of scoring chances. Tortorella wants to try and get that from Kreider, and if Kreider can learn to do it even half as well as Hagelin, it will completely open up his game. Tortorella knows that if Kreider learns to be strong on the puck and with the puck on his stick, he'll be a very dangerous player with his shot. He'll have the puck more, get into the speed of the game more, and he'll learn to use his size along the boards. He has the speed to be an elite puck retriever, so there is absolutely no reason Tortorella should't be telling him to use that skill.

On the topic of Kreider, I think he has looked very good thus far. He was OK against the Panthers, made a few nice plays, but tonight, he looked very sharp. I think he could have scored a goal or two if his linemates could get the puck out of the defensive zone. He seemed confident every time he was on the ice. I think it's only a matter of the right line combinations, and a little bit of time before Kreider starts scoring in bunches.
Not criticizing Torts for this. I just don't think Kreider's offense is suited for dump and chase. I watched him for 3 years here at BC. That wasn't his game and I don't think it ever will be.

He needs someone who can outlet him really quickly or create plays on their own away from him and feed him the puck. He'll score in bunches if he has that.... not, lets dump the puck and play along the boards. Nash on the same line with him is one part of that. Him and Stepan makes the perfect line in my opinion cause none of those players are really dump and chase players. Richards on the other hand seems to be dumping a lot more this year than he ever has.

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03-25-2013, 12:33 AM
  #274
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Im starting to really sense the frustration from Hank. The way he skated off tonight had that "**** this team" feel to it. He gets no help on a nightly basis.

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03-25-2013, 12:35 AM
  #275
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Hank is sick of torts for sure .

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