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Rumor and Proposal Thread Vol. 8: The North Remembers

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Old
03-24-2013, 11:47 PM
  #676
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If Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo are both unsigned come July 1 - I'd focus my concentration on Shattenkirk.

1) Teams are going to be lining up for Pietrangelo, and STL is going to make it their focus to get this guy re-signed/match an offer sheet

2) This leaves Shattenkirk - who is literally almost at Pietrangelo's level. He becomes expendable if they have to pay a premium to play Pietrangelo. Their internal cap dictates this. He's been playing with Jackman for most of the past couple seasons, and together they've operated at the level of a 1st pairing. Shattenkirk-Smid would be a pairing I'd bill as our #1 if they were to ever be assembled.

3) I'd offer Shattenkirk 5.75-6.25M, and happily give up the picks. Then to make this all affordable for the future, I'd trade Eberle and his 6M+ in a package for depth (something like Eberle+ for McDonagh).

Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
MPS-Gagner-Yakupov
____-RNH-Ward

Smid-Shattenkirk
McDonagh-Petry
Fistric-J.Schultz

Voila, a legitimate top pairing, a legitimate 2nd pairing, and elimination of some of the clutter within our top-9 forwards.


Last edited by The Perfect Human*: 03-24-2013 at 11:55 PM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 12:00 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
In what world is Hemsky our 2nd best winger, especially looking ahead to next season? In terms of skill, perhaps, but there is more to hockey than stick handling drills. To a team heavy on grit but light on skill Hemmer is an appealing player, a team like the Bruins. For us however, what he brings is beyond redundant. Yak and Ebs are our right wingers in the top 6, and Hemsky is the complete opposite of what you want in the bottom 6. What team is moving a Dman out of their top 4 for Hemsky?

Also, I didn't fill in the blanks on the proposed roster because I wanted to hear suggestions from other posters. My hope would be a guy like Eric Fehr in UFA, maybe for around 2mil or so. Ideal 3rd liner with size (6'4 212), solid defensively, can PK a bit, plays with some grit and yet very disciplined (only 98 PIMs in 294 career games). He brings much more of what we don't have vs Hemsky bringing what we're already rich in.
This year IMO Hemsky has been our 2nd best winger behind Hall, in the future I understand Eberle and Yakupov will be better but they haven't been lately. A couple teams I could see being interested in Hemsky are Nashville, Phoenix, Winnepeg, LA, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Carolina, Clb

So from each of those teams these are guys I'd be looking to get for Hemsky: Nash: Klein, Josi, Blum; PHX: Yandle(obviously we add), Stone; Win: Enstrom, Bogosian, Buff (We add to all 3), Mark Stuart (Winnepeg adds a prospect like Klingberg); LA: Voynov(We add), Jake Muzzin, Alec Martinez; Tor: Gunnarsson, Gardiner; Mon: Emelin; Bos: Boychuk; Car: Mcbain, Gleason.

Those are some of the guys I'd target. I think the place that makes the most since for Hemsky is Nashville, Phoenix, or Carolina all those teams need scoring and have d men to move. I think there might be a deal to be made with Columbus but for another forward not a dman, maybe someone like Foligno or Dubinsky in return for Hemsky which would help both clubs IMO.

As for the blanks I guess we'll see what happens at the TD because it will really depend who all moves. I've said it before on here but I think for d men depending if we move Hemsky I'd like to see Zidlicky and Scuderi brought in to help mentor the kids, as for the forwards I'd like to see Clarke Macarthur or Fedotenko for the 3rd line LW and for the RW spot I'd like to see them send out a 4 year 3.8M per offer sheet to Cal Clutterbuck. I'm willing to overpay for what he brings to the ice every night.

Something like this would dramatically change our perception of being easy to play against around the league.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yakupov
Fedotenko-Horcoff-Clutterbuck
Brown-Smithson-Orr
Petrell, Smyth

Klein-Smid or if not resigned Ference
J.Schultz-Scuderi
Petry-Fistric

Klein brought in through Hemsky trade. Everyone one else can be traded for picks and prospects(Tambo favorite kind of trade). There needs to be a lot of turnover for this team to be considered a playoff team next year, and Tambo has to start making moves now for next season IMO.


Last edited by raab: 03-25-2013 at 12:08 AM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 12:04 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
Would anyone be willing to do Hemsky for Booth+ in the off-season?

I know there's a major discrepancy in production statswise, but I think Booth is being mis-used out in Vancouver.

Kesler is a low-IQ offensive player, and when combined with Booth (also low-IQ), they don't produce much together.

Booth is at his best when with one of those high-IQ C's (Weiss in FLA) - he'd look really good as RNH/Gagner's LW. He's younger, cheaper (4.25M), and bigger than Hemsky - and I'm not willing to write him off just yet. He's put up 30+ goals in the league before. Our line-up heading into next season would read:

Booth-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Gagner (4-5M)-Yakupov
MPS-Horcoff-______
Brown-______-____
If you could add a guy with some spunk to that 3rd line (Dupuis, Lapierre) and play them 18-19 min/night to win the match-up game, you got a pretty good line-up there.
Booth is done as an effective NHLer.

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03-25-2013, 12:04 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
If Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo are both unsigned come July 1 - I'd focus my concentration on Shattenkirk.

1) Teams are going to be lining up for Pietrangelo, and STL is going to make it their focus to get this guy re-signed/match an offer sheet

2) This leaves Shattenkirk - who is literally almost at Pietrangelo's level. He becomes expendable if they have to pay a premium to play Pietrangelo. Their internal cap dictates this. He's been playing with Jackman for most of the past couple seasons, and together they've operated at the level of a 1st pairing. Shattenkirk-Smid would be a pairing I'd bill as our #1 if they were to ever be assembled.

3) I'd offer Shattenkirk 5.75-6.25M, and happily give up the picks. Then to make this all affordable for the future, I'd trade Eberle and his 6M+ in a package for depth (something like Eberle+ for McDonagh).

Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
MPS-Gagner-Yakupov
____-RNH-Ward

Smid-Shattenkirk
McDonagh-Petry
Fistric-J.Schultz

Voila, a legitimate top pairing, a legitimate 2nd pairing, and elimination of some of the clutter within our top-9 forwards.
Like the idea. Would be ok with trading playrs for Shattenkirk also.

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03-25-2013, 12:06 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Unlikely given who is making the trade, not to mention Iginla's UFA status limits his value.

Nor is Calgary a couple of moves from respectability either.
I know he made a pretty big mistake with the ROR offer sheet, but he was named executive of the year in 04, and has a cup ring. Something no one on our management team has accomplished in a management position.

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03-25-2013, 12:18 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Like the idea. Would be ok with trading playrs for Shattenkirk also.
They'd only be interested if they were getting defense for defense. And I doubt any of our players fit the billing for them. Maybe Petry+Yakupov for Shattenkirk+Schwartz gets it done, but even then I doubt it.

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03-25-2013, 12:42 AM
  #682
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Lowe could pull his puppet strings and make management staff offersheet both Piet and Shat in hopes of landing just 1, all while doing the Dr. Evil laugh.

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03-25-2013, 01:05 AM
  #683
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I know he made a pretty big mistake with the ROR offer sheet, but he was named executive of the year in 04, and has a cup ring. Something no one on our management team has accomplished in a management position.
Wasn't comparing Edmonton/Calgary management groups, though if I was - I would say they are both terrible, and Feaster's scrambling to try to put together a team is in fact remarkably similar to the Oiler's pre-rebuild futility years. Lowe's success in 2006 isn't considered an excuse for the team being bad today, so why would Feaster's screw up with one of the primary aspects of his job in 2013 somehow be absolved by what he did under a different CBA nearly a decade ago? It doesn't, and the fact he's still around to make another move that could hurt the franchise is very telling of ownership group.

They are being run into the ground by a succession of bad GMs, and are about to lose the most popular player in franchise history over it.

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03-25-2013, 01:12 AM
  #684
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I disagree that we need a major shake up. What we have in Edmonton is poor asset management. We need to protect our assets better AND get a couple better vets to do some heavy lifting.

Step 1: put Yak RNH MPS together on our 3rd line and let them grow all of this season AND next. RNH and Yak could be the next Brett Hull and Adam Oats. Give them time to figure it out. A little grit and speed in the other wing doesn't hurt either

Step 2: get a vet winger to play with Horcs and Hemmer on the 1st line. And who will last till the end of next year, who can play against the other teams top line and come out +vs on +/-

Step 3: put Hall Gagner Eberle on the #2 line. Ebs and Hall share the same brain so put them back together. Gags has proven that he has figured it out and is coming into his own. Plus this line is good enough that if the opposition gets their # 1 line out during road games they will do just fine

Step 4: energy and muscle required. #13 is a good start. Jones too. Finding a center for the 4th line can't be that hard

Step 5: the rest? out or press box or on the farm

Management needs to be fired for the centerman fiasco. The number of games we have played without 4 bonified centermen is inexcusable. That has been the difference between being in the top 8 in our conference or being 4 points out of the playoffs.

Def is tougher. You have to look at it from the top up

N Shultz and Fistric are a quality #5-6 $$$ will come into play here at some point. J. Shultz should not be thrown to the wolves. Put him and Smid together as your #3-4 and play them 20 min a nite. Our problem is our #1 pairing. Petry can be one and we need a quality vet who is a bonified #2. Our first pairing can be 2 #2. Probably Our management's toughest assignment.

Finally a quality back up for Dubnyk. He has proven that he can carry the mail so now he needs support that can push him to stay sharp

TBA Horc Hemmer
Eberle Gagner Hall
MPS RNH Yak
Brown TBA Jones
**after next season this #1 line is gone and these #2-3 lines become #1-2

TBA Petry
Smid JShultz
NShultz Fistric

Dubnyk
TBA

To me those 4 TBA are not a real tough shopping list. 2 could likely be acquired on waivers or smaller trades. A 1st line winger is tougher, but is easier than trying to find a #1 center for sure. And a #2 Dman isn't easy either but WAY easier than finding a #1 stud dman

And get a centerman for the press box for Pete's sake!!!!


Last edited by jeetz: 03-25-2013 at 01:17 AM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 01:33 AM
  #685
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What if we overpaid for Clarkson and Stalberg, and used any combo of the 1st, Hemsky, Harti, Belanger, or Jones to get help on D.
Ference would also be cool, or "Bob" Scuderi.

Hall Horcoff Clarkson
MPS Gagner Ebs
Stalberg Nuge Yak
Harti/Jones Lander? Brown

Also hire a GM to make the money work for me


Last edited by T-Funk: 03-25-2013 at 01:41 AM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 01:35 AM
  #686
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What if we overpaid for Clarkson and Stalberg, and used any combo of the 1st, Hemsky, Harti, Belanger, or Jones to get help on D and maybe a bottom center.

Ference would also be cool, or "Bob" Scuderi.
Then we'd be an even worse-off team?

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03-25-2013, 01:50 AM
  #687
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Then we'd be an even worse-off team?
Losing Hemsky and Belanger for a top 1/2D and Clarkson and Stalberg makes us worse? Not expecting those two guys to necessarily be worldbeaters points-wise as we already have the players for that.

Losing Hemsky and Belanger for just a top 1/2D already makes us better.

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03-25-2013, 01:54 AM
  #688
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Losing Hemsky and Belanger for a top 1/2D and Clarkson and Stalberg makes us worse? Not expecting those two guys to necessarily be worldbeaters points-wise as we already have the players for that.

Losing Hemsky and Belanger for just a top 1/2D already makes us better.
But you're not going to get that kind of return for those players...nor the other ones you mentioned in the original post.

At best you'll get another 3-4 defenseman to share the role played by Smid-Petry. This player will struggle in a top-pairing role the same way Smid/Petry have and we'll become marginally better off.

Stalberg is like Booth without the size - low IQ player with great wheels. Clarkson is interesting but like you said - it will take an overpay to acquire him. Definitely not worth it. Valuable player that will never be worth the price.

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03-25-2013, 02:05 AM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
But you're not going to get that kind of return for those players...nor the other ones you mentioned in the original post.

At best you'll get another 3-4 defenseman to share the role played by Smid-Petry. This player will struggle in a top-pairing role the same way Smid/Petry have and we'll become marginally better off.

Stalberg is like Booth without the size - low IQ player with great wheels. Clarkson is interesting but like you said - it will take an overpay to acquire him. Definitely not worth it. Valuable player that will never be worth the price.
Stalberg is technically free to acquire compared to Booth and even another 3/4D (if that is the best return for Hemmer and our 1st) is better than another 5/6. Marginally better off is not worse off.

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03-25-2013, 02:23 AM
  #690
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Hall-RNH-Ebs
Paajarvi-Gagner-Yak
???-Horc-???
Harti-???-Brown

???-???
Smid-JSchultz
Fistric-Klefbom

???
Dubie

Hall - RNH - ???
??? - Gagner - Eberle
PRV - ??? - Yak
Harti - Horcoff - Brown
Petrell

??? - ???
Smid - Petry
Fistric - J. Schultz

Dubnyk
???

If the Oilers can fill those winger spots with functional size, find a big 2-way centre for the 3rd line and find a top pair of D, they could roll 4 lines and 3 sets of D and the Oil might actually be a half decent team.

This way JS and Yak can get sheltered minutes 5 x 5 and then will get their other minutes on the PP. I'm assuming Klefbom will probably start in OKC unless he's lights-out at camp and stays that way through first 10 games.

And I'd give Dubnyk another year but I'm also looking for a guy to back him up that has future starter potential that might be 2 or 3 years away.

I'm looking to move anyone else along with prospects and picks in hopes of filling some of the empty spots.

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03-25-2013, 02:24 AM
  #691
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Stalberg is technically free to acquire compared to Booth and even another 3/4D (if that is the best return for Hemmer and our 1st) is better than another 5/6. Marginally better off is not worse off.
We'd be marginally better off defensively. Let's not even begin to talk about how bad we would be offensively if we made those changes.

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03-25-2013, 02:35 AM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
We'd be marginally better off defensively. Let's not even begin to talk about how bad we would be offensively if we made those changes.

Clarkson versus Hemsky: Clarkson has a higher ppg and (actual points) in both this year and last, both had a hot start and cooled down, Clarkson is big and hits(this difference is astronomical). We do not have a player like Clarkson in our top 6.

Stalberg is a better option than Smyth or Harti or even Jones lately, and is a big boy.

Lander would put up more points than Belanger.

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03-25-2013, 02:42 AM
  #693
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Clarkson versus Hemsky: Clarkson has a higher ppg and (actual points) in both this year and last, both had a hot start and cooled down, Clarkson is big and hits(this difference is astronomical). We do not have a player like Clarkson in our top 6.

Stalberg is a better option than Smyth or Harti or even Jones lately, and is a big boy.

Lander would put up more points than Belanger.
Clarkson has 4 points in his last 18 games, and has spent the entire season playing with some combination of Elias-Zajac/Henrique.

He's had a good run, but he's playing with premier-level offensive players. It's to be expected.

I'm starting to understand what you're saying. He brings a lot of what this team needs. Physicality, grit, etc. While playing a top-6 role.

I just don't want to be the GM that commits 5M+ to this guy to watch it turn into multiple <0.5 point/game seasons.

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03-25-2013, 02:48 AM
  #694
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Just gotta watch the term. You could pay him a stupid number for at least 2 years before it's a problem.

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03-25-2013, 02:49 AM
  #695
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Klefbom's starting with us next season. He's good enough to make the club. I think a lot of you forget that he was far and away the best player at the rookie camp, even way ahead of Yak.

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03-25-2013, 02:56 AM
  #696
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Klefbom's starting with us next season. He's good enough to make the club. I think a lot of you forget that he was far and away the best player at the rookie camp, even way ahead of Yak.
If he earns his place that's fine, but I don't want to hand him a spot.
In a perfect world he plays 1 year in OKC.

Smid Petry Schultz Fistric and Klefbom still requires a #1 or at least a damn good #2

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03-25-2013, 02:57 AM
  #697
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Klefbom's starting with us next season. He's good enough to make the club. I think a lot of you forget that he was far and away the best player at the rookie camp, even way ahead of Yak.
But he's also coming off a year full of injuries...I guess we just need to see how he improves/progresses over the summer.

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03-25-2013, 06:35 AM
  #698
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But you're not going to get that kind of return for those players...nor the other ones you mentioned in the original post.

At best you'll get another 3-4 defenseman to share the role played by Smid-Petry. This player will struggle in a top-pairing role the same way Smid/Petry have and we'll become marginally better off.

Stalberg is like Booth without the size - low IQ player with great wheels. Clarkson is interesting but like you said - it will take an overpay to acquire him. Definitely not worth it. Valuable player that will never be worth the price.
How is Stalberg like Booth without the size. Stalberg is 6'3" and 210lbs. Booth is more aggressive but he also has major concussion issues which is a concern for someone who plays rather recklessly.

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03-25-2013, 08:38 AM
  #699
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Klefbom's starting with us next season. He's good enough to make the club. I think a lot of you forget that he was far and away the best player at the rookie camp, even way ahead of Yak.
And this is the type of thinking that shouldn't be happening. Getting all excited about a bright shinny object that hasn't played one pro game in North America. Looking good against lower level of competition is something we seen for years. Member Robbie Schremp lighting up the Golden Bears with end to end passes, or Alex Giroux ripping up the AHL or Petrell having 9 goals in his first 10 games or something in the Fin league?

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03-25-2013, 08:44 AM
  #700
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And this is the type of thinking that shouldn't be happening. Getting all excited about a bright shinny object that hasn't played one pro game in North America. Looking good against lower level of competition is something we seen for years. Member Robbie Schremp lighting up the Golden Bears with end to end passes, or Alex Giroux ripping up the AHL or Petrell having 9 goals in his first 10 games or something in the Fin league?
or justin schultz destroying the AHL and then disappearing in the nhl?

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