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2013 Draft Discussion (Mar. 29 article, post #976)

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03-25-2013, 08:56 AM
  #826
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I have a question about Mackinnon. Is he really an elite finisher? His goal numbers don't seem overwhelming, a little better than Couturier's. A scouting report I read said he's someone that would challenge for an Art Ross, so I'd expect more goal production from him.
I don't know about Art Ross for MacKinnon. I think, kind of like Giroux, there is a sense that he could be scoring more goals if he applied himself to doing so, but he's an excellent passer as well and probably defers to that more than he needs to.

He'll be a 30-40 goal guy in the NHL. Likely not competing for many Art Ross's, but should be more reasonably competing to break the 90 point threshold. No question in my mind that he's a regular PPG player or better.

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03-25-2013, 09:14 AM
  #827
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Can't wait for the lottery. Want Seth Jones so bad. The kid's skating for someone that size is unreal. After him I go for Mackinnon mostly because of his elite skating. I think speed is something we lack at both forward and D. If you guys go back and watch the game last night there were way too many dump ins. We were lucky to score a goal against a team that's not very good defensively to begin with.

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03-25-2013, 09:16 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I don't know about Art Ross for MacKinnon. I think, kind of like Giroux, there is a sense that he could be scoring more goals if he applied himself to doing so, but he's an excellent passer as well and probably defers to that more than he needs to.

He'll be a 30-40 goal guy in the NHL. Likely not competing for many Art Ross's, but should be more reasonably competing to break the 90 point threshold. No question in my mind that he's a regular PPG player or better.
To be fair to him I don't think anyone is competing for the Art Ross when Crosby is healthy.

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03-25-2013, 09:24 AM
  #829
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My fault I meant Richard, not Art Ross.

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03-25-2013, 09:36 AM
  #830
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For all the tankers out there tomorrow's game is by far the most important game of the year. The Rangers sit 5 points ahead of us with the same amount of games played. We win, we close into 3 points and have 4 more games at home to catch up(5 game home stand). We lose we fall 7 points behind and are almost undoubtedly out of the race for good. You have to think management is eyeing this game like that as well.

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03-25-2013, 10:21 AM
  #831
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For all the tankers out there tomorrow's game is by far the most important game of the year. The Rangers sit 5 points ahead of us with the same amount of games played. We win, we close into 3 points and have 4 more games at home to catch up(5 game home stand). We lose we fall 7 points behind and are almost undoubtedly out of the race for good. You have to think management is eyeing this game like that as well.
Tank you very much.....

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03-25-2013, 10:42 AM
  #832
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The "drop" in talent is after top 4 actually, Barkov belongs to that group just as well, has belonged whole season, but people just seem to forget about him now that Drouin is the newcomer to this "big 4", and also because Barkov plays far away in Europe.
From what I've read Barkov doesn't possess the elite speed or skating ability that Drouin or MacKinnon do, and he doesn't have quite as much upside.

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03-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
From what I've read Barkov doesn't possess the elite speed or skating ability that Drouin or MacKinnon do, and he doesn't have quite as much upside.
Bolded part is true, but everything else about him screams elite.

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03-25-2013, 12:07 PM
  #834
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From what I read about Barkov is the scouts love how ready he is for the NHL.

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03-25-2013, 12:16 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
From what I read about Barkov is the scouts love how ready he is for the NHL.
Would I be wrong in saying that Barkov might be the safest pick in the draft?

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03-25-2013, 12:20 PM
  #836
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Would I be wrong in saying that Barkov might be the safest pick in the draft?
I'd assume MacKinnon is still the safest pick, but Barkov might be 2nd.

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03-25-2013, 12:29 PM
  #837
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My (pessimistic) prediction is that the Flyers finish 7th, unchanged by the lottery, as a lower-seeded team will win it. ISS and Button both have Zadorov, Lindholm and Monahan around there. I'll fearlessly (cluelessly) predict they take Zadorov.

I'd like to see the Flyers end up with Nurse. I just think, though, that this squad will cobble together a few too many end-of-season points to get into the top 5 selection.

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03-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #838
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Bolded part is true, but everything else about him screams elite.
I'm not saying he's not elite. I just think we need another high end forward that has elite speed that can create problems for the other team at even strength. I just have reservations using a high pick on a guy who scouts say is a "below average skater." It's somewhat obvious when Coots is on the ice that his skating ability is holding him back a little.

I think Nathan MacKinnon is definitely the safest pick in the draft. He's produced at every level and has been on the radar of the scouting world for a long time. I remember reading about him three years ago when he was dubbed as the next Crosby. We all know now that his ceiling is not quite that high, but he's got the potential to be a top 15 player in the league.

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03-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
I have a question about Mackinnon. Is he really an elite finisher? His goal numbers don't seem overwhelming, a little better than Couturier's. A scouting report I read said he's someone that would challenge for an Art Ross, so I'd expect more goal production from him.
Yes he is an Elite Finisher, he has an unreal shot, and is deadly accurate.

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03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
I'm not saying he's not elite. I just think we need another high end forward that has elite speed that can create problems for the other team at even strength. I just have reservations using a high pick on a guy who scouts say is a "below average skater." It's somewhat obvious when Coots is on the ice that his skating ability is holding him back a little.
There's a big gap between "elite" and "below average". Many scouts put a "fringe" to "below average" rating on Couturier's skating. Most scouts have Barkov pegged as average and actually say he's got good technique, just needs to add some leg strength.

I'm not saying I necessarily want Barkov, but he will end up being a better skater than Couturier. He reminds me a lot of Kopitar.

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03-25-2013, 03:43 PM
  #841
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I really think anthony mantha is probably the best skater in the draft.

Still don't know how more people aren't talking about this kid. If we end up picking 10-15 I'd really consider picking him, if we end up with multiple picks in the 1st round, I want anthony mantha on this team.

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03-25-2013, 03:48 PM
  #842
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I really think anthony mantha is probably the best skater in the draft.

Still don't know how more people aren't talking about this kid. If we end up picking 10-15 I'd really consider picking him, if we end up with multiple picks in the 1st round, I want anthony mantha on this team.
No, MacKinnon is still, quite easily, the best skater in the draft.

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03-25-2013, 05:30 PM
  #843
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No, MacKinnon is still, quite easily, the best skater in the draft.
He may be. Quite easily? Doubtful. Mantha is an amazing skater, especially for his size.

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03-25-2013, 05:45 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Reduxs View Post
I'm not saying he's not elite. I just think we need another high end forward that has elite speed that can create problems for the other team at even strength. I just have reservations using a high pick on a guy who scouts say is a "below average skater." It's somewhat obvious when Coots is on the ice that his skating ability is holding him back a little.

I think Nathan MacKinnon is definitely the safest pick in the draft. He's produced at every level and has been on the radar of the scouting world for a long time. I remember reading about him three years ago when he was dubbed as the next Crosby. We all know now that his ceiling is not quite that high, but he's got the potential to be a top 15 player in the league.
He's definitely not even close to be a Crosby-level prospect but MacKinnon is probably my favorite player in this draft. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he'll be the best and I love Drouin, Jones, Barkov and a few others as well, but I just love how he plays the game.

That being said, Barkov's skating (in my limited viewings of him) is better than Couturier's was at this point and it wouldn't be a reason not to take if he were the BPA where the Flyers pick.

I still don't think the Flyers will be drafting top 3 unless they win the lottery.

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03-25-2013, 06:01 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
He's definitely not even close to be a Crosby-level prospect but MacKinnon is probably my favorite player in this draft. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he'll be the best and I love Drouin, Jones, Barkov and a few others as well, but I just love how he plays the game.

That being said, Barkov's skating (in my limited viewings of him) is better than Couturier's was at this point and it wouldn't be a reason not to take if he were the BPA where the Flyers pick.

I still don't think the Flyers will be drafting top 3 unless they win the lottery.
Well, if we win the lottery we pick 1st... So hopefully that happens.

I like mackinnon as well, but jones is my favorite player from the draft, an not just because we need a defenseman. He's the perfect weapon on the backend. He's big, he can skate, he can hit, his positioning is sound, his shot is great and his passing is very good. He also oozes confidence and is the kind of guy who will be a good leader in the future. I think mackinnon is a bit less of a gamble than jones, but I think jones has the ability to be a more important player on his team.

I really see a lot of Shea Weber in Seth Jones.

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03-25-2013, 06:44 PM
  #846
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Well, if we win the lottery we pick 1st... So hopefully that happens.

I like mackinnon as well, but jones is my favorite player from the draft, an not just because we need a defenseman. He's the perfect weapon on the backend. He's big, he can skate, he can hit, his positioning is sound, his shot is great and his passing is very good. He also oozes confidence and is the kind of guy who will be a good leader in the future. I think mackinnon is a bit less of a gamble than jones, but I think jones has the ability to be a more important player on his team.

I really see a lot of Shea Weber in Seth Jones.
Really....that's a very interesting comparison. I watch Seth Jones and I see a Rob Blake type player. Funny thing about Seth Jones is that everything you mention about him, I see in Darnell Nurse. Nurse also reminds me of Rob Blake. You really can't go wrong with either guy.

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03-25-2013, 06:52 PM
  #847
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Really....that's a very interesting comparison. I watch Seth Jones and I see a Rob Blake type player. Funny thing about Seth Jones is that everything you mention about him, I see in Darnell Nurse. Nurse also reminds me of Rob Blake. You really can't go wrong with either guy.
Pretty much whatever Darnell Nurse does, Seth Jones does it better IMO.

The only thing I can see Nurse potentially being better at is: more physical & better defensively (but not by much).

Hell, Jones is 4th in scoring among all WHL dmen.

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03-26-2013, 01:17 AM
  #848
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Really....that's a very interesting comparison. I watch Seth Jones and I see a Rob Blake type player. Funny thing about Seth Jones is that everything you mention about him, I see in Darnell Nurse. Nurse also reminds me of Rob Blake. You really can't go wrong with either guy.
Hmm. Idk I see a very similar skill set to Shea weber when I see him play. Perhaps a tad less aggressive. I could understand a Rob Blake comparison though.

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03-26-2013, 10:23 AM
  #849
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Pretty much whatever Darnell Nurse does, Seth Jones does it better IMO.

The only thing I can see Nurse potentially being better at is: more physical & better defensively (but not by much).

Hell, Jones is 4th in scoring among all WHL dmen.
Jones also plays on a loaded Portland Winterhawks team. I would love to see what Nurse can do on a team that sports three one hundred point scorers and three sixty point scorers. In comparison, Nurse plays on a team with one one hundred point scorer and two sixty point scorers.

As for Nurse, he's right up there with Jones in terms of offensive ability. Nurse chose to be the shut down defender in the Soo this year and he still put up 40 points. He's considerably more physical than Jones and he's significantly a better defender.

I'm not harping on Jones, but the overrating that's going on with regards to Jones is borderline ridiculous. He's a fantastic player, but the difference between Jones and Nurse has closed significantly to the point that Nurse is considered by some scouting services to be possibly the number 2 player and depending on a Sault Ste Marie playoff run, could be the number one guy by the time all is said and done.

Funny story about Nurse. When the junior hockey year started, he wasn't even rated by ISS or CSB or any of the major scouting services. As of now, he's climbed to number 5. The only other person to see a ratings jump like that? Claude Giroux was the last guy who wasn't rated when his draft year started and climbed all the way to 24 by the time the season ended.

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03-26-2013, 10:39 AM
  #850
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Jones also plays on a loaded Portland Winterhawks team. I would love to see what Nurse can do on a team that sports three one hundred point scorers and three sixty point scorers. In comparison, Nurse plays on a team with one one hundred point scorer and two sixty point scorers.

As for Nurse, he's right up there with Jones in terms of offensive ability. Nurse chose to be the shut down defender in the Soo this year and he still put up 40 points. He's considerably more physical than Jones and he's significantly a better defender.

I'm not harping on Jones, but the overrating that's going on with regards to Jones is borderline ridiculous. He's a fantastic player, but the difference between Jones and Nurse has closed significantly to the point that Nurse is considered by some scouting services to be possibly the number 2 player and depending on a Sault Ste Marie playoff run, could be the number one guy by the time all is said and done.

Funny story about Nurse. When the junior hockey year started, he wasn't even rated by ISS or CSB or any of the major scouting services. As of now, he's climbed to number 5. The only other person to see a ratings jump like that? Claude Giroux was the last guy who wasn't rated when his draft year started and climbed all the way to 24 by the time the season ended.
Money post. I just learned a lot. Makes me feel a lot better about getting Nurse should it play out.

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