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Old
03-25-2013, 01:09 AM
  #51
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
I think it's called what the majority of western society does all of the time, especially at night on weekends.

I always love the, "Why can't white christian straight men from the West have their own special day of things?" argument.



Are you saying straight people don't talk openly about sex?

Is there a teen movie made that isn't about teenagers talking openly about sex?

SCOTTY DOESN'T KNOW, SCOTTY DOESN'T KNOW, SCOTTY DOESN'T KNOW...
Not what I said at all. IMO it's different for a gay male to talk sexually about men in front of a straight male as opposed to a straight male talking sexually about women in front of a gay person. Do you disagree? Just my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Not all gay guys are that way.

Thing is, I bet there are quite a few straight NHL players that boast about all the girls they get.
Same thing as above..

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:12 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Not what I said at all. IMO it's different for a gay male to talk sexually about men in front of a straight male as opposed to a straight male talking sexually about women in front of a gay person. Do you disagree? Just my opinion.
Something tells me that's not going to happen.

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:33 AM
  #53
Joey Moss
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
Something tells me that's not going to happen.
Not sure what exactly you mean by this but anyways..

I can understand that it can be frustrating if someone says it's "wrong" or gay marriage is wrong but some gay people have to know everyone is entitled to their opinions. Getting really defensive about someone's opinion bothers me.

My opinion is that there is nothing wrong about gay marriage. There is something wrong with making a straight person feel uncomfortable by talking sexually and being really open anywhere other than around your partner/other gay people. And let's be honest, this is the reason we have discussions like this and why some people have problems with it.

That is my opinion, do not ridicule me because of it.

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Old
03-25-2013, 01:39 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RedWinger10 View Post
As a straight man who loves the sport of hockey I can say I am proud to have all types of people involved with the sport. Weather it be race, gender, or sexuality I believe the diversity is a good thing for the sport. And shared interests are what afterall bring us together.
Word. Also straight, but an ally. As is my wife.

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03-25-2013, 01:57 AM
  #55
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Personally not gay but a good friend recently told me and my group of friends he was gay. I thought it was going to be tough for him because we are in High School and people are really judgmental in High School sometimes but so far its been a month and nobody has said or done anything rude to him. Its very nice to see to because in this day and age people can be very quick to judge and rude as well. To me it doesn't bother me if he is gay. If that's what make him happy then so be it.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:00 AM
  #56
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First off, I DO support gay-marriage. That being said.. and I might take some heat for this.. but I find myself annoyed when people are bashed publicly for not supporting gay-marriage. The reason being, it seems that most of those who do come out against it, are doing so because of religious matters. NOW, I DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A RELIGION ARGUMENT... but really, I don't ever expect someone to go against the way they've been raised or their own belief system to allow equality. It ****ing sucks that it has to be that way, but bashing someone for their religious views isn't any better as it's taking away people's Freedom of Religion. I hate to be a pessimist, but we'll never achieve full-blown equality.

To sum it up.. as long as you're not acting like a certain Kansas group, I have no problem if someone is against gay-marriage. I'm for it, others aren't. I really hope my choice in words wasn't bad, if so, I apologize. I just think equality should go for both sides, which would never actually work.

PS. Carrie Prejean should have won.


Last edited by Kurdt Kobain: 03-25-2013 at 04:42 AM.
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Old
03-25-2013, 02:01 AM
  #57
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I personally, cannot wrap my head around the idea around someone not having the same rights and freedoms as everyone else purely because of who they love. I'm a proud ally.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:28 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
Why can't they be themselves right now?
Homosexuality is still widely considered being "less of a man" in sports culture.

Not only that but they would be both massively praised and scrutinized. There is always a backlash if someone have some form of "special status" and if you had a homosexual NHLer who was drawing a few too many penalties, you know the rage would be if referees are either protecting him or if he's being targeted for his orientation.

We're still not a mature enough society for people to be themselves. We're getting there, though. Just have to wait for the ones who've had everything to realize they have to start sharing and that if they become the minority, that doesn't mean we're going to throw them a parade.

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03-25-2013, 03:40 AM
  #59
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How is not supporting it comical? Everybody has their opinion.
Because people should support what makes others happy as long as it doesn't cause harm to others.

The thing I disagree with is your analogy of a gay person being born gay and you being born to be "uncomfortable" around gays. Here's the difference: One is something you're ACTUALLY born with (being attracted to humans of the same sex) and another is a feeling that was conditioned into you by society.

A heterosexual's uncomfortableness with homosexuals is a result of growing up being conditioned to think that a heterosexual relationship is the "right way" to do things... this obviously stems from the distant past when procreation was a necessity in life. But times have changed and procreation isn't something looked at as life's "ultimate goal" anymore (ie. we're not cavemen/cavewomen anymore)... therefore homosexuality should be viewed as being just as "right" as heterosexuality.

Obviously this all goes to crap if you bring certain religions into it because of the made up rules and whatnot... again, more conditioning.

For me it's pretty obvious... I accept and enjoy all good people no matter what their sexual preference is.

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Old
03-25-2013, 04:44 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
Because people should support what makes others happy as long as it doesn't cause harm to others.

The thing I disagree with is your analogy of a gay person being born gay and you being born to be "uncomfortable" around gays. Here's the difference: One is something you're ACTUALLY born with (being attracted to humans of the same sex) and another is a feeling that was conditioned into you by society.

A heterosexual's uncomfortableness with homosexuals is a result of growing up being conditioned to think that a heterosexual relationship is the "right way" to do things... this obviously stems from the distant past when procreation was a necessity in life. But times have changed and procreation isn't something looked at as life's "ultimate goal" anymore (ie. we're not cavemen/cavewomen anymore)... therefore homosexuality should be viewed as being just as "right" as heterosexuality.

Obviously this all goes to crap if you bring certain religions into it because of the made up rules and whatnot... again, more conditioning.

For me it's pretty obvious... I accept and enjoy all good people no matter what their sexual preference is.
Nail on the head.

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Old
03-25-2013, 05:10 AM
  #61
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Gay. Probably more of us here than many people think.
Major league confirmed. I know of at least four more Stars fans alone that are.

And as others have said, you would never have guessed unless I wanted you to.

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Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
But please, don't have these ridiculous festivals (pride parades). It's sexually uncomfortable. And before you call me a bigot for this, what I mean is when you have guys in leather chaps showing off their butt and making out in public etc...I'm sure the LGBT community would be upset by a straight pride parade where hetro sexual's were half naked prancing around and making out.
You've never been to Mardi Gras if you don't think straight people have those type of parades/events (or St. Patrick's day after what I saw this year). It's the one time of year we can celebrate and enjoy ourselves. No one is forcing you to attend. It's much better when completely plastered, might I say, and not 105 degrees out.

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Old
03-25-2013, 07:21 AM
  #62
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Personally, I don't care whether someone is gay or not. As long as you're a decent human being, you're good in my book. Who and what we are attracted to is out of our control. Any logical person knows that. I didn't personally decide to be attracted to blondes more than brunettes or red heads. I didn't personally decide to be attracted to girls with big boobs. I didn't personally decide to be attracted to women in general. Attraction is just something that comes naturally. So there should be no reason as to why being gay or bisexual is frowned upon. I will say this though. I could see there being some problems in the future once society starts to accept homosexuals and bisexuals more and more. Hear me out.

We have established who and what we are attracted to is out of our control. So under that sentiment, a person who is beastisexual, incest, ect. could claim that if society is going to accept heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexuality, then we as a society should accept them as well. After all, they didn't choose to be that way. They could argue that we're being prejudice to them.

Do not take this as me being supportive of beastality and incest people. Im just bringing up an interesting point. I find those things absolutely disgusting and straight up freaky. While I find being gay gross as well (like any other heterosexual would), I can support people who are. Now Im aware that's a hypocritical stance to have. That is why I see problems in the future. I could see a beastality and incest community forming (if there isn't already one that Im not aware of) to fight for equality.

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Old
03-25-2013, 07:40 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
They could argue that we're being prejudice to them.
They have absolutely nothing to base their prejudice off of.

One is basically ****** (edit: didn't realize that was considered a bad word :/, starts with an r) helpless animals that have absolutely no say in the matter.
The other is illegal in most places and if a child is born out of it, could become seriously mentally handicapped because of the said incident.

Two things that are hurting other people or animals in the process, hence no case what so ever.

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Old
03-25-2013, 07:54 AM
  #64
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Personally not gay but a good friend recently told me and my group of friends he was gay. I thought it was going to be tough for him because we are in High School and people are really judgmental in High School sometimes but so far its been a month and nobody has said or done anything rude to him. Its very nice to see to because in this day and age people can be very quick to judge and rude as well. To me it doesn't bother me if he is gay. If that's what make him happy then so be it.
This is encouraging to hear. I'm not THAT far out of high school, but it would have been a big deal for someone to announce his/herself as gay when I was that age. There would most definitely have been social backlash. That's just the way it was. And again, this was less than 15 years ago.

It's amazing how quickly things have changed from one generation to another, that what would have been a big deal before is now basically a non-issue.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:35 AM
  #65
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I'm a gay hockey fan and player. It is very encouraging to see more positive than negative support in this thread so far. While I am "out" at work and to friends, I am not out to my teammates, except for one. I have been playing on the same team for nearly 6 years now. I don't go out of my way to hide my orientation, I just also don't go out of my way promoting it.

Now, to dispel a few myths. As a hockey player, here is a list of things I am there to do at my hockey games:
-socialize with my teammates
-play hockey

Here is a list of things that I am not there to do:
-make a pass at you
-make you feel uncomfortable

For those who are uncomfortable being in the same locker room/dressing room as a gay person, I am here to let you know that we are not there to make any sexual advances towards our straight teammates. We are there to play hockey and socialize. And not to make anyone more uncomfortable, but there are more gay people out there than you think. Some of us are just more difficult to detect .

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:44 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
I have nothing against gay people.. I know it's not a choice and it's not right to judge someone because of it. The thing that can sometimes get to me is gay people who are open about their sex life and basically just all around open in a creepy way around straight people. I feel it's something that should be kept to yourself. Like the show on MTV with all the gay guys talking is just so uncomfortable to watch.
I don't think anybody (gay, straight, etc.) should be that open about their sex life in public.

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Old
03-25-2013, 08:56 AM
  #67
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Straight ally here. A good proportion of my friends are LGBTQ in some way or another, including some absolute "manly-man" athlete types for men and some "glamorous" makeup and high fashion types for women. There is no real "gay personality" per say, and society is just starting to realize that.

As for people who are saying things along the lines that they don't hate homosexuals but don't approve of pride parades, public discussions about homosexual sex, etc., take a minute to realize how often the same types of things happen in predominantly heterosexual environments. Just like how there are straight people who are more reserved or more open with their sexuality, it is the same with gay people. There is no monolithic gay culture in the same way there is no monolithic straight culture. All sexual orientation is is a preference for who one chooses to love/have sex with etc.

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:41 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
Only problem I have with an LGBT athlete is dressing room issues, like someone being uncomfortable being naked in the same room as a homosexual male. Personally I wouldn't care, but I'm sure some would (and they have every right to...the same way a women would want to get dressed in a different room than a man).
Ever stopped to think that maybe this is a problem for the straight person, not the gay person? If they feel so uncomfortable showering with a gay person, they are free to leave or skip the shower. I don't see why this should prevent the gay player from showering with the rest of his team that isn't uncomfortable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
The thing that can sometimes get to me is gay people who are open about their sex life and basically just all around open in a creepy way around straight people. I feel it's something that should be kept to yourself. Like the show on MTV with all the gay guys talking is just so uncomfortable to watch.
There are TV shows that I dislike as well. I don't watch them.

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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Not what I said at all. IMO it's different for a gay male to talk sexually about men in front of a straight male as opposed to a straight male talking sexually about women in front of a gay person. Do you disagree? Just my opinion.
I absolutely disagree. Both situations are an individual talking about their sexual experiences/feelings with another individual. Again, if this makes you uncomfortable, feel free to remove yourself from the conversation instead of preventing another person from sharing in a social experience. Also, being gay, I can say with full confidence that gay people listen to people talk about straight sexual experiences MUCH more than straight people listen to people talk about gay sexual experiences (especially when you include advertisements, pop culture, music, etc.), so I think the straighties can suck it up, even if they are a bit uncomfortable at first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rey72335 View Post
First off, I DO support gay-marriage. That being said.. and I might take some heat for this.. but I find myself annoyed when people are bashed publicly for not supporting gay-marriage. The reason being, it seems that most of those who do come out against it, are doing so because of religious matters. NOW, I DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A RELIGION ARGUMENT... but really, I don't ever expect someone to go against the way they've been raised or their own belief system to allow equality. It ****ing sucks that it has to be that way, but bashing someone for their religious views isn't any better as it's taking away people's Freedom of Religion. I hate to be a pessimist, but we'll never achieve full-blown equality.
What if a group of people was preventing you from being allowed to marry? What about if that group of people would not be affected one way or another by this decision, but still wanted to prevent you the opportunity anyway? You'd probably be a bit annoyed and upset at this group of people, regardless of their reasoning.

I agree that bashing someone's religion isn't the best course of action, but I also don't understand why Mark and Matt getting married will go against anyone else's religion, except for possibly their own. Why are religious people griping about secular people getting married, regardless of sex/gender. Also, why is this griping helping to shape public policy? This is where the whole church/state separation really just doesn't seem to exist as it should...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
We have established who and what we are attracted to is out of our control. So under that sentiment, a person who is beastisexual, incest, ect. could claim that if society is going to accept heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexuality, then we as a society should accept them as well. After all, they didn't choose to be that way. They could argue that we're being prejudice to them.

Do not take this as me being supportive of beastality and incest people. Im just bringing up an interesting point. I find those things absolutely disgusting and straight up freaky. While I find being gay gross as well (like any other heterosexual would), I can support people who are. Now Im aware that's a hypocritical stance to have. That is why I see problems in the future. I could see a beastality and incest community forming (if there isn't already one that Im not aware of) to fight for equality.
Well, the HUGE difference between homosexuality and beastiality (or the other example that gets tossed around which is pedophilia) is CONSENT. Two adults engaging in a sexual act are able to give consent to the experience. Animals and children cannot give consent. Its really that simple.

Its certainly not a given that all heterosexuals find being gay gross. I have many male heterosexual friends that aren't interested in sex with other men, but have no problem talking about it or commenting on it. They most certainly aren't disgusted by gay people or by being gay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupfailure713 View Post
For those who are uncomfortable being in the same locker room/dressing room as a gay person, I am here to let you know that we are not there to make any sexual advances towards our straight teammates. We are there to play hockey and socialize. And not to make anyone more uncomfortable, but there are more gay people out there than you think. Some of us are just more difficult to detect .
I know, right? I love the mentality of some straight guys who think that EVERY gay guy out there wants them or is attracted to them. Its very likely that the gay guy(s) in the locker room aren't interested in any of the other guys on the team. I've played many team sports before, so I know this from experience.

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Old
03-25-2013, 09:44 AM
  #69
Killem Dafoe
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Neither did mine, so I made sure to never give them a grandchild while they were alive. Spiteful but worth it.
Yeah, they are pretty ridiculous. I can't figure out people like that, good people, but so closed minded and heartless when it comes to certain things. They are the types who would most likely disown their own child or grandchild for being gay. I love them to death but that is just mind boggling. I became pretty close to the guy from my last job who said to me that he was from Ohio. I asked, "Man what are you doing way out here?" he replied, "I came out to my parents and they kicked me out." That is just something I will never be able to grasp, especially having kids myself.

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03-25-2013, 10:00 AM
  #70
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l love other dudes and hockey. When someone chirps me and calls me a ****** on this ice, I'm usually just like, "Yeah. But you're not my type". That usually shuts them up.

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03-25-2013, 10:06 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by rey72335 View Post
First off, I DO support gay-marriage. That being said.. and I might take some heat for this.. but I find myself annoyed when people are bashed publicly for not supporting gay-marriage. The reason being, it seems that most of those who do come out against it, are doing so because of religious matters. NOW, I DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A RELIGION ARGUMENT... but really, I don't ever expect someone to go against the way they've been raised or their own belief system to allow equality. It ****ing sucks that it has to be that way, but bashing someone for their religious views isn't any better as it's taking away people's Freedom of Religion. I hate to be a pessimist, but we'll never achieve full-blown equality.

To sum it up.. as long as you're not acting like a certain Kansas group, I have no problem if someone is against gay-marriage. I'm for it, others aren't. I really hope my choice in words wasn't bad, if so, I apologize. I just think equality should go for both sides, which would never actually work.

PS. Carrie Prejean should have won.

This carries as much weight as me getting mad at someone who insults Harry Potter. Adults who still cling to "what they're raised with" garner no respect when it comes to their anti-gay marriage views.

The second bold portion is basically the cause for the majority of hate and injustice that has ever occurred in the world, from the crusades to current religious fanaticism. I don't think you understand how ridiculous that statement really is.

P.S. I'll probably catch more heat for my post than yours will


Last edited by 7toZulu: 03-25-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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03-25-2013, 10:29 AM
  #72
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Count me in as an ally.

gay or straight, white or black, who cares anymore. We are all just humans looking for the same basic things.


We are all looking to love and be loved.

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03-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #73
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Count me in as an ally.

gay or straight, white or black, who cares anymore. We are all just humans looking for the same basic things.


We are all looking to love and be loved.
I completely I agree with this, except for those damn Goobacks, they took our jobs!

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03-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Not sure what exactly you mean by this but anyways..

I can understand that it can be frustrating if someone says it's "wrong" or gay marriage is wrong but some gay people have to know everyone is entitled to their opinions. Getting really defensive about someone's opinion bothers me.

That is my opinion, do not ridicule me because of it.
I'm fine with not ridiculing people over their opinion; but if there are holes in your beliefs and you refuse to see them should other people not question them?

If I said that in my opinion everyone on earth can marry a consenting adult except Joey Moss and some how a large group of people agreed with that. Would you think "oh that's someone's opinion guess I get less rights than everyone else" or would you question it? Would you want to open up minds to more discussion than "I was raised this way" / "buddy in the sky doesn't like Joey"

Opinions are great everyone should have them and not be ridiculed; but opinions should also be open for change and questioned/debated and if you can't handle your opinion being questioned when someone sees holes in it the fault lies in your immaturity.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rey72335 View Post
The reason being, it seems that most of those who do come out against it, are doing so because of religious matters. NOW, I DON'T WANT THIS TO TURN INTO A RELIGION ARGUMENT... but really, I don't ever expect someone to go against the way they've been raised or their own belief system to allow equality. It ****ing sucks that it has to be that way, but bashing someone for their religious views isn't any better as it's taking away people's Freedom of Religion. I hate to be a pessimist, but we'll never achieve full-blown equality.
Religon has been used to justify many things sometimes we use it to justify doing extra for the homeless or to come together as a community; other times we use it to justify slavery or mass murders. Should we just say well all these things belong in our society so if religon is an excuse then never question it.

We have laws in society that are independent of religon and people who want to control those laws and only back their reasoning with there religious views really don't understand the freedoms of everyone who does not go to their specific church.

I think it's great that everyone can connect with their spiritual side where ever they choose to be to say that we can't question people's beliefs (and espeically any that ripple outside of that area) is ridiculous.

and why can't we achieve full blown equality?

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03-25-2013, 12:10 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 7toZulu View Post
Adults who still cling to "what they're raised with" garner no respect when it comes to their anti-gay marriage views.
Then they can equally give you "no respect" for your beliefs. Why is your belief more correct or important then theirs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7toZulu View Post
The second bold portion is basically the cause for the majority of hate and injustice that has ever occurred in the world, from the crusades to current religious fanaticism. I don't think you understand how ridiculous that statement really is.
Think about how ridiculous your statement about that is. You imply its bad for people to hate and impose their beliefs in the name of religion, however, its ok for you to hate and impose your beliefs on them because you dont believe in religion?

Again, why is your opinion or belief any better or give you more right to impose it on anyone just because you dont do it in the name of religion?

There has been an almost equal attack on religion in recent years as there has been religious attacks on the atheists.

Neither party is right and has the right to impose their beliefs on anyone that does not agree.

In our society though, we have laws and majority rule. If the majority decide that gay marriage is ok, then fine and those that do not believe in it will simply be allowed to not practice it.

However, if the majority decide they do not want it, then those that believe in it need to sit back and accept it, just as they'd want those against it would accept it if it becomes legal.

You cant have it both ways. If you want them to respect your beliefs, then you NEED to respect theirs. Simple as that.

All that said, I'm not choosing either side and am simply playing devils advocate and get angry when someone says they dont respect someone elses beliefs while arguing to make them respect their own because they think they're more right.

I'm not religious, but respect their beliefs having grown up Catholic. I couldnt care less about gay marriage, my life goes on either way. I understand the religious beliefs and have three gay uncles so can understand their point of view as well.

The bottom line is statements like I quoted are just as ignorant as religious people that cant see the other side. We can all live by the morals and beliefs we see fit, but have to understand not everyone will see it the same way and we need to respect them and their beliefs just as much as we hold dear to ours.

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