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Old
03-25-2013, 11:27 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Don't think he every played wingat a pro level. Played centre in the AHL, and with the Habs, aside from 1 and half period vs Boston in 2011 and he got hurt...
He played wing on the 3rd line in his first year.

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03-25-2013, 11:28 AM
  #27
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Talking about DD is bashing him. The guy is weak in 75% of what hockey is.
He's an offensive weapon that can't win puck battles, can't win faceoffs, can't play defense to save his life. No matter how we twist it... The guy is bad.

Wether we put him on the wing or trade him I don't really care. But we need him out of the C position ASAP. And if he's moved to the wing we need the other manlet gone and faster than anyone on this team.
Look, there's a reason why I dislike comments like "we can't win cup with a guy like DD" because there's a 29/30 chance you're right. So when people use it, it's just noise to me. What if we had gretzky in his prime and lost in playoffs, I guess we can't win with Gretzky...That's my issue, it's a bash argument because it's not validated and it's loaded in your favour despite the fact that there may be zero correalation.

Again, I believe the team has similar faceoff skills. If we look at DD's FO% last 2 years I guess he's better than Eller. Eller should be converted to wing. Eller has less goals, clearly not an offensive player

So I have to disagree. "No matter how you twist it" seems wrong. In reality, you can twist anything to prove a point. I'm an Eller and DD fan (although I admittedly see a different upside for Eller) and Eller's career or last 2 years face off #s are weaker, yet most including yourself say he's a center. Yet, DD with better numbers in last 2 years sucks on faceoffs and is bad. That's why it's called bashing, it's inconsistent and based on your preference and not actual fact. Most people reply "matchups" and "sheltered minutes" at this point which doesn't help the faceoff argument against DD at all. Truth be told, I think they are equal, but I'm illustrating a point, how can you say one yes but the other no when the stats say otherwise?

The fact you call the guy a manlet proves your bias. What do you want me to say? I'm 6'4 and don't have a smurf self defense mechanism or anything.

If we want to argue Desharnais' validility as a Center given our depth and flexibility, I'm okay with that, it's a very fair argument. I just dislike pointless discussions relating to "you cant win with him as C" then we win with him as a C.

What do you suggest as a line-up? I think if we can all agree Desharnais helps the team but we all see him with a different role that's fine. Just where do you see an ideal line-up, I think we can have a discussion off that if there's a reasoning to the line-up. In regards to DD, why X line and why X linemates, how will this help the team and not the individual.

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03-25-2013, 11:28 AM
  #28
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He played wing on the 3rd line in his first year.
In the AHL?

Because he never played wing other than that 1 period vs Boston.

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03-25-2013, 11:31 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
In the AHL?

Because he never played wing other than that 1 period vs Boston.
He's played wing in the NHL. I'm 99.9% certain.

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03-25-2013, 11:32 AM
  #30
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I don't like the thread title as it doesn't reflect its content. Here's my suggestion:

David Desharnais: the Human Pinata Edition.



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03-25-2013, 11:33 AM
  #31
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Right, I forgot he's ''good'' if you give him tons of O-zone soft match-ups and that he's from QC.

While we could see the same damn production from Galchenyuk if we gave him the same role, while developping him to be our first C.

But DD is a fan/media favorite so, eh.
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
And this is why I'm partial to what Bergevin will be down the road.

He seem's to be too emotional when thinking hockey. Same with MT.
The Armstrong and Bouillon signing are prime indicators.
Ah ok, we get it now. Signing players born in Quebec can only be based on "emotions", never on "reason", according to you, that's it?

I have one suggestion for you : Look at the standings, and look at which position the Habs are. After that, think about this : Maybe, just maybe, MB is the one using his reason while you're the one being too emotive about it?

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03-25-2013, 11:38 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
In the AHL?

Because he never played wing other than that 1 period vs Boston.
First stint in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Look, there's a reason why I dislike comments like "we can't win cup with a guy like DD" because there's a 29/30 chance you're right. So when people use it, it's just noise to me. What if we had gretzky in his prime and lost in playoffs, I guess we can't win with Gretzky...That's my issue, it's a bash argument because it's not validated and it's loaded in your favour despite the fact that there may be zero correalation.

Again, I believe the team has similar faceoff skills. If we look at DD's FO% last 2 years I guess he's better than Eller. Eller should be converted to wing. Eller has less goals, clearly not an offensive player

So I have to disagree. "No matter how you twist it" seems wrong. In reality, you can twist anything to prove a point. I'm an Eller and DD fan (although I admittedly see a different upside for Eller) and Eller's career or last 2 years face off #s are weaker, yet most including yourself say he's a center. Yet, DD with better numbers in last 2 years sucks on faceoffs and is bad. That's why it's called bashing, it's inconsistent and based on your preference and not actual fact. Most people reply "matchups" and "sheltered minutes" at this point which doesn't help the faceoff argument against DD at all. Truth be told, I think they are equal, but I'm illustrating a point, how can you say one yes but the other no when the stats say otherwise?

The fact you call the guy a manlet proves your bias. What do you want me to say? I'm 6'4 and don't have a smurf self defense mechanism or anything.

If we want to argue Desharnais' validility as a Center given our depth and flexibility, I'm okay with that, it's a very fair argument. I just dislike pointless discussions relating to "you cant win with him as C" then we win with him as a C.

What do you suggest as a line-up? I think if we can all agree Desharnais helps the team but we all see him with a different role that's fine. Just where do you see an ideal line-up, I think we can have a discussion off that if there's a reasoning to the line-up. In regards to DD, why X line and why X linemates, how will this help the team and not the individual.
Who ever said Eller was good at faceoffs ? Who ever said it was a Eller vs DD post?
I'm not a fan of players I'm a fan of the team. I've witnessed one cup and I was fairly young. I want to see others. Or atleast dominant teams, not bubble teams. It's about the team winning games here. DD and Eller have fairly similar offensive production and Galchenyuk and Plekanec are way ahead of both of them. All in all theres four C spot on the team. The team will need to make a choice(I know it will be the wrong one.)
It's not about bashing the great DD its about the damn team winning. Frankly, is DD a second line center on a dynasty like team? Is he ? Can we have Gionta-DD-Gally-Plek in our top 6 ?

I like the guy too. He has some sweet moves and all.. But at the end of the day its will he help us win. (When I refer to winning, it's not only a cup, but a dominant team year in and out(See Detroit circa Lidstrom, Pittsburgh, Philly, NYR, SJ.))

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Old
03-25-2013, 11:41 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Ah ok, we get it now. Signing players born in Quebec can only be based on "emotions", never on "reason", according to you, that's it?

I have one suggestion for you : Look at the standings, and look at which position the Habs are. After that, think about this : Maybe, just maybe, MB is the one using his reason while you're the one being too emotive about it?
What...

What I meant is that MT/MB sign players they like as HUMAN being not hockey players. Which is why I mentionned Bouillon(Not because he's Qcer, but because he's basically MT's own son and Armstrong.)

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03-25-2013, 11:41 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Ah ok, we get it now. Signing players born in Quebec can only be based on "emotions", never on "reason", according to you, that's it?

I have one suggestion for you : Look at the standings, and look at which position the Habs are. After that, think about this : Maybe, just maybe, MB is the one using his reason while you're the one being too emotive about it?
Armstrong is from Quebec?

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03-25-2013, 11:42 AM
  #35
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Lets get real here.. Are DD, Army and Bouillon the best value we could get for our line-up?
Or is there a better player somewhere that we could've landed?

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03-25-2013, 11:42 AM
  #36
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Armstrong is from Quebec?
His french is better than most people from the west island. All makes sense, now.

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03-25-2013, 11:48 AM
  #37
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First stint in the NHL.



Who ever said Eller was good at faceoffs ? Who ever said it was a Eller vs DD post?
I'm not a fan of players I'm a fan of the team. I've witnessed one cup and I was fairly young. I want to see others. Or atleast dominant teams, not bubble teams. It's about the team winning games here. DD and Eller have fairly similar offensive production and Galchenyuk and Plekanec are way ahead of both of them. All in all theres four C spot on the team. The team will need to make a choice(I know it will be the wrong one.)
It's not about bashing the great DD its about the damn team winning. Frankly, is DD a second line center on a dynasty like team? Is he ? Can we have Gionta-DD-Gally-Plek in our top 6 ?

I like the guy too. He has some sweet moves and all.. But at the end of the day its will he help us win. (When I refer to winning, it's not only a cup, but a dominant team year in and out(See Detroit circa Lidstrom, Pittsburgh, Philly, NYR, SJ.))
It wasn't a DD vs Eller post but that's his competition for last top 9 center spot right? Now that you feel neither are good at faceoffs and have similar production, which center should we acquire or maybe package them both for? Yes, I am doing it on purpose. It's a legit question if you do feel they are both weak on faceoffs. Means Plekanec, Galchenyuk are our #1-2 for the future, who should be our #3. Won't be leblanc, white, dumont, etc... so we'd need someone else given their poor faceoff and limited offensive upside.

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03-25-2013, 11:49 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Lets get real here.. Are DD, Army and Bouillon the best value we could get for our line-up?
Or is there a better player somewhere that we could've landed?
All are worth their price. Boullion and Army are bargain bin type players, and are fine in a limited role.

Boullion should be nowhere near the PK or especially the PP but is decent enough on 5 on 5. I have no idea why he was extended AND given a raise, but he's been a little better than I expected.

Armstrong, along with his fantastic French , while very limited, has been an important part of the 4th line and has probably been better than the more expensive Moen lately.

Desharnais...well, we've already discussed this, is getting paid like a second liner and playing like a second liner. I think 50 points for an exploitation scorer isn't good, but this team is not so packed with offensive talent that it's not valuable.

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03-25-2013, 11:50 AM
  #39
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All are worth their price. Boullion and Army are bargain bin type players, and are fine in a limited role.

Boullion should be nowhere near the PK or especially the PP but is decent enough on 5 on 5. I have no idea why he was extended AND given a raise, but he's been a little better than I expected.

Armstrong, along with his fantastic French , while very limited, has been an important part of the 4th line and has probably been better than the more expensive Moen lately.

Desharnais...well, we've already discussed this, is getting paid like a second liner and playing like a second liner. I think 50 points for an exploitation scorer isn't good, but this team is not so packed with offensive talent that it's not valuable.
Don't think Bouillon gota raise. Before someone else jumps on you for it.

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03-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #40
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Don't think Bouillon gota raise. Before someone else jumps on you for it.
Checked capgeek...my bad, I thought people were complaining that he was making more next year.

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03-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #41
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Checked capgeek...my bad, I thought people were complaining that he was making more next year.
Well, if we wanna get tecnical, the cap is going down, so he will be taking up more of the cap next year than he is this year, and while being one year older/slower to boot. I'm getting pretty off topic for a DD thread, though.

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03-25-2013, 12:01 PM
  #42
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Well, if we wanna get tecnical, the cap is going down, so he will be taking up more of the cap next year than he is this year, and while being one year older/slower to boot. I'm getting pretty off topic for a DD thread, though.
Well, there's not anything new to say about Desharnais until the next game, is there?

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03-25-2013, 12:10 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Lets get real here.. Are DD, Army and Bouillon the best value we could get for our line-up?
Or is there a better player somewhere that we could've landed?
Armstrong and Cube are 4th liner and 6th D... really, how good do you expect your 6th D and 4th line RW to be ?

as for DD, players like him, pretty much every team has one or two (even contenters), they're all paid about the same (+/- 3 or 4 Mil) and have flaws in their game, like DD who isnt that strong physically or Ryder who's far from great defensively...

when they dont have major flaws in their game, they're paid 5 Mil + like Plekanec, Bergeron (Boston) and a few others...

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03-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #44
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When I hear maxpac go on about how Desharnais is the best player with whom he played, or when I hear former habs, like cammy, (who has no reason not to speak his mind) insists to go on about how he knew Desharnais would pan out, it just adds weight to the stats and his game as we see it. Are bashers watching games ? it often comes back to the same brutal HF ''experts'' approach , where OMGZZ PROSPECTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> established NHLers. ''we need to make room for Leblanc OMGZ'' no we don't. its broken, your brains are broken.

so by watching the games, I can understand he needs to get better (like any other player) in some areas of his game, but I'm pleased with the way he plays, and I think he's a big part of our quality depth.

but if I ever consider someone's negative imput, its probably going to be the coach/players' opinion on the matter ... not the guy bashing Desharnais while he scrubs doritos out of his belly button because one of his fetish prospects with whom he is dangerously obsessed with is denied a roster spot.

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03-25-2013, 12:19 PM
  #45
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Lets get real here.. Are DD, Army and Bouillon the best value we could get for our line-up?
Or is there a better player somewhere that we could've landed?
For their current prices? They are pretty good value to be honest. Thats like less that 4 million on 3 players (this year), all of which who play significant minutes on a team fighting for 1st in the conference. Especially since 2 were UFAs (automatically overpaid), I think the Habs signed some great depth deals.

But then again, the Habs sure are messing up this year. These signings are probably the reason why this season has been such a enormous failure.

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03-25-2013, 12:42 PM
  #46
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Can I just say that for all of the people saying "Oh no not another DD thread", I love this thread and hope there are many more like this.

I find it downright strange when people complain about what other people are talking about. In every discussion there are is at least one person talking and one person listening. If you don't like the discussion, don't do either.

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03-25-2013, 01:02 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He's played wing in the NHL. I'm 99.9% certain.
@Mrb1p

Can you guys find me a GTD or something showing that, not to call you guys out, but I have looked back at many GTD and all have him at centre.

I've watched almost every game, and don't remember every him playing on the wing. I remember he got called up for a few games, along with White and Pyatt I believe, and they were the 4th line. And in his first half year, he played mainly on the 4th line with Pouilot and Darche I believe.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I don't ever recall him playing wing other than that 1 and half period in the playoffs.

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03-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
It wasn't a DD vs Eller post but that's his competition for last top 9 center spot right? Now that you feel neither are good at faceoffs and have similar production, which center should we acquire or maybe package them both for? Yes, I am doing it on purpose. It's a legit question if you do feel they are both weak on faceoffs. Means Plekanec, Galchenyuk are our #1-2 for the future, who should be our #3. Won't be leblanc, white, dumont, etc... so we'd need someone else given their poor faceoff and limited offensive upside.
AG takes DD's place on the second offensive line and Eller keeps his place on the 2nd shutdown line. Simple.

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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
All are worth their price. Boullion and Army are bargain bin type players, and are fine in a limited role.

Boullion should be nowhere near the PK or especially the PP but is decent enough on 5 on 5. I have no idea why he was extended AND given a raise, but he's been a little better than I expected.

Armstrong, along with his fantastic French , while very limited, has been an important part of the 4th line and has probably been better than the more expensive Moen lately.

Desharnais...well, we've already discussed this, is getting paid like a second liner and playing like a second liner. I think 50 points for an exploitation scorer isn't good, but this team is not so packed with offensive talent that it's not valuable.
It's not about caphit, its not about salary. It's about building the best team. There's ALOT of better 6th D than Bouillon in this league/other leagues and the same goes for Army.(For the record I defended both alot so my point is not to bash them, its to prove that they're building this team based on emotional values over business.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Armstrong and Cube are 4th liner and 6th D... really, how good do you expect your 6th D and 4th line RW to be ?

as for DD, players like him, pretty much every team has one or two (even contenters), they're all paid about the same (+/- 3 or 4 Mil) and have flaws in their game, like DD who isnt that strong physically or Ryder who's far from great defensively...

when they dont have major flaws in their game, they're paid 5 Mil + like Plekanec, Bergeron (Boston) and a few others...
Read up. And which contending team has a small C, good only for offensive starts only, who can't win a faceoff to save his life(its a hyperbole dont go crazy.) taking the place of a 3rd overall pick capable of producing?

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Originally Posted by THE HOFF View Post
When I hear maxpac go on about how Desharnais is the best player with whom he played, or when I hear former habs, like cammy, (who has no reason not to speak his mind) insists to go on about how he knew Desharnais would pan out, it just adds weight to the stats and his game as we see it. Are bashers watching games ? it often comes back to the same brutal HF ''experts'' approach , where OMGZZ PROSPECTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> established NHLers. ''we need to make room for Leblanc OMGZ'' no we don't. its broken, your brains are broken.

so by watching the games, I can understand he needs to get better (like any other player) in some areas of his game, but I'm pleased with the way he plays, and I think he's a big part of our quality depth.

but if I ever consider someone's negative imput, its probably going to be the coach/players' opinion on the matter ... not the guy bashing Desharnais while he scrubs doritos out of his belly button because one of his fetish prospects with whom he is dangerously obsessed with is denied a roster spot.
You know what ? This comes down to DD being a freaking nice guy that every body likes. The guy worked his butt off since he was a little boy playing in the Q(And I'm sure he worked his ass off before.). He never calls out anybody and he's too chubby to hate. Comes down to emotions over real hockey business. I feel bad myself calling DD out for christ sakes.

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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
For their current prices? They are pretty good value to be honest. Thats like less that 4 million on 3 players (this year), all of which who play significant minutes on a team fighting for 1st in the conference. Especially since 2 were UFAs (automatically overpaid), I think the Habs signed some great depth deals.

But then again, the Habs sure are messing up this year. These signings are probably the reason why this season has been such a enormous failure.
Read up. I didnt really diss the Armstrong and Bouillon signing.n Its the fact that Bouillon/army are MT's sons and that they're not all that top notch yet we still signed them. Bouillon is playing too much minutes and Army too.

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03-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
@Mrb1p

Can you guys find me a GTD or something showing that, not to call you guys out, but I have looked back at many GTD and all have him at centre.

I've watched almost every game, and don't remember every him playing on the wing. I remember he got called up for a few games, along with White and Pyatt I believe, and they were the 4th line. And in his first half year, he played mainly on the 4th line with Pouilot and Darche I believe.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I don't ever recall him playing wing other than that 1 and half period in the playoffs.
Yes on the 4th line, if I remember correctly he was centered by Pyatt (for what 4 games?)
And yeah in his first half a year he played C in between Darche and Poulet.

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03-25-2013, 01:12 PM
  #50
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Yes on the 4th line, if I remember correctly he was centered by Pyatt (for what 4 games?)
And yeah in his first half a year he played C in between Darche and Poulet.
yup

but I'm 100% sure Pyatt was the LW and DD playing centre.

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