HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > World Cup of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

World Cup of Hockey Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Olympics and the Worlds- Participiation qualifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2013, 04:42 AM
  #76
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
I consider Galchenyuk to be a Russian, but I think if Russians did not have funny names, nobody would notice or care
True. If Olaf Kolzig had a more anglo sounding name, say like David Beck and had decided to play (assuming he makes the team) for Canada most people wouldn't have known he had any connection to Germany whatsoever.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 06:21 AM
  #77
Dustin Peener
First of his name
 
Dustin Peener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 68,313
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
True. If Olaf Kolzig had a more anglo sounding name, say like David Beck and had decided to play (assuming he makes the team) for Canada most people wouldn't have known he had any connection to Germany whatsoever.
Same goes for Wojtek Wolski. I guess my point is, if you had a British/Canadian kid in the same situation, people would find it easier to accept he is Canadian due to the name, or they may not even think about it at all.

I remember back in 2008 at the Beijing Olympics when Nastia Liukin won all those medals in gymnastics people were like "hurr durr a Russian won those medals for USA" but she was trained in the US and I bet if she had an English name all the gymnastics casuals who come out every 4 years would be none the wiser.

Dustin Peener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-25-2013, 01:53 PM
  #78
EbencoyE
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 1,934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Hoops? Half the WBC Italian baseball team essentially consisted of American born and raised players whose only hope to go through was to board a flight to Phoenix from Spring training. That'd be like Ireland (or Norway since they are actually in the tournament) offering me a free ticket to Sochi and saying here's your authentic jersey with your name on it.
I don't know what tournament you are referring to. The World Championships? Ireland also competes in the WC.

Anyway, obviously a tournament funded by the MLB is going to be able to take care of all the player costs, but Ireland's hockey federation isn't going to able to provide for any Irish-American/Canadian guy they want to bring across the Atlantic to play for them. Not to mention the World Championships are going on during the North American club season so who would even be available to make that trip? Only beer leaguers who aren't going to give Ireland much of an advantage.

Norway already has a good roster, I'm not sure why they would go out of their way to bring third rate Canadians or Americans onto their team.

Quote:
Regarding Brodeur, he was a full developed hockey player when he came to the US. He was born and raised in Canada. Not withstanding the fact that he played multiple times for Canada, he has no connection to US hockey.
But he has plenty of connection to the United States where he lives and is a citizen, so I would find it hard to tell him that he can't personally identify as American. Obviously he has played for Team Canada in the past which would make him ineligible for Team USA, but I'm just speaking hypothetically.

EbencoyE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 12:48 AM
  #79
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 5,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
One could argue that living in a country for 15 years is a lot more of a connection than a mere parent.

Though of course Pominville's been living in the US for 10 years himself.
Sure, but in that case the US could simply field a team of NHL stars from Canada. Why not? They have lived there for 10 years right?

We could have Brodeur, Boyle, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Getzlaf, Marleau.... you guys can keep Iginla.

Xokkeu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 12:51 AM
  #80
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 5,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
I don't know what tournament you are referring to. The World Championships? Ireland also competes in the WC.

Anyway, obviously a tournament funded by the MLB is going to be able to take care of all the player costs, but Ireland's hockey federation isn't going to able to provide for any Irish-American/Canadian guy they want to bring across the Atlantic to play for them. Not to mention the World Championships are going on during the North American club season so who would even be available to make that trip? Only beer leaguers who aren't going to give Ireland much of an advantage.

Norway already has a good roster, I'm not sure why they would go out of their way to bring third rate Canadians or Americans onto their team.



But he has plenty of connection to the United States where he lives and is a citizen, so I would find it hard to tell him that he can't personally identify as American. Obviously he has played for Team Canada in the past which would make him ineligible for Team USA, but I'm just speaking hypothetically.

It was a hypothetical. If an American is called to play for Italy, because he has a grandparent and isn't good enough to play for the US team, then he'll likely do it to play in a prestigious competition. There is a major hockey tournament in Sochi next year, one in which Norway is a part of. Norway could use a host of 3rd line NHLers that aren't good enough for Canada, but might be good enough for Norway.

Xokkeu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #81
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
We could have Brodeur, Boyle, Pronger, Niedermeyer, Getzlaf, Marleau....

They have lived there for 10 years right?
Yes, some of them even played juniors in the US. Wolski or Heatley cannot claim the same about their birth country which allegedly they should be allowed to represent, and neither can Pominville.

If a Canadian is allowed to go to Germany and get into the national team after a few years, why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same in the US? Either it's allowed or it's not, I don't see how their parents should make any difference.

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 02:43 PM
  #82
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 5,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Yes, some of them even played juniors in the US. Wolski or Heatley cannot claim the same about their birth country which allegedly they should be allowed to represent, and neither can Pominville.

If a Canadian is allowed to go to Germany and get into the national team after a few years, why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same in the US? Either it's allowed or it's not, I don't see how their parents should make any difference.
My philosophy is generally to let the player decide. If Heatly or Wolski want to play for Germany or Poland, I am not opposed. However if I were a German fan I would not want Heatley to play for my team because he really has no connection to Germany. That is my personal opinion. Wolski on the other hand I would be happy to have a Polish player seeing as his parents are Polish and he was born there. The US and Canada share a pretty integrated development system in the sport so I think I don't consider either country a foreign development system for either team.

Also the only way a Canadian should be able to get into the German national team is either if he were already eligible for German citizenship or otherwise I believe the residency requirement is 8 years.

Xokkeu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-26-2013, 05:52 PM
  #83
Mr Kanadensisk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Yes, some of them even played juniors in the US. Wolski or Heatley cannot claim the same about their birth country which allegedly they should be allowed to represent, and neither can Pominville.

If a Canadian is allowed to go to Germany and get into the national team after a few years, why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same in the US? Either it's allowed or it's not, I don't see how their parents should make any difference.
I don't think either should be allowed if they change countries as adults. I think a system as you are suggesting could hurt a lot of the smaller hockey countries. Imagine if they lost their best player because they were in the NHL and wanted to play for the US or Canada and in turn they got back a minor league North American from their domestic league.

Mr Kanadensisk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 03:48 AM
  #84
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
My philosophy is generally to let the player decide. If Heatly or Wolski want to play for Germany or Poland, I am not opposed. However if I were a German fan I would not want Heatley to play for my team because he really has no connection to Germany. That is my personal opinion. Wolski on the other hand I would be happy to have a Polish player seeing as his parents are Polish and he was born there.
Heatley's mother is German and he was born there too. Sounds like his connection to Germany is the same as Wolski's to Poland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
The US and Canada share a pretty integrated development system in the sport so I think I don't consider either country a foreign development system for either team.
Then it means every NA player automatically fulfills the 2-year requirement and should only need to apply for citizenship in the other country after a few years there to be eligible for the national team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Also the only way a Canadian should be able to get into the German national team is either if he were already eligible for German citizenship or otherwise I believe the residency requirement is 8 years.
It's obviously easier to become a citizen in some countries than in others, but once a player gets his citizenship and fulfills the 2-year requirement, he's eligible. It's really none of the IIHF's business how he got that citizenship.

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-27-2013, 02:27 PM
  #85
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 5,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Heatley's mother is German and he was born there too. Sounds like his connection to Germany is the same as Wolski's to Poland.


Then it means every NA player automatically fulfills the 2-year requirement and should only need to apply for citizenship in the other country after a few years there to be eligible for the national team.


It's obviously easier to become a citizen in some countries than in others, but once a player gets his citizenship and fulfills the 2-year requirement, he's eligible. It's really none of the IIHF's business how he got that citizenship.
I didn't realize his mother was German. Then no problem.

Xokkeu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 06:49 AM
  #86
jekoh
Registered User
 
jekoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I didn't realize his mother was German. Then no problem.
Well if he didn't have a German parent, why exactly would he be a German citizen? He would not be, and therefore wouldn't be eligible for the German national team even if the 2-year requirement wasn't part of the rules any more.

jekoh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-28-2013, 12:36 PM
  #87
Xokkeu
Registered User
 
Xokkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Frozen
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 5,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Well if he didn't have a German parent, why exactly would he be a German citizen? He would not be, and therefore wouldn't be eligible for the German national team even if the 2-year requirement wasn't part of the rules any more.
I did not know if he had a German passport or not.

Xokkeu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-31-2013, 02:22 AM
  #88
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,278
vCash: 931
I really frowned upon the many former soviet nationals who was really not russian, but chose to play for Russia becouse they had the greatest chance of winning something there. Lets see here: Kasparaitis, Zhitnik, Zherdev, Tverdovsky, perhaps Nabokov although i have some memory of him being a special case, god damn i cant remember any more right now but there where plenty. Kudos to guys like Osolins, Khristich, Ponikarovsky, Skrastins and Irbe who represented their real people.

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2014, 01:52 PM
  #89
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 7,318
vCash: 500
The appeal for the Olympics is that it pits country against country peacefully (unless it's hockey where fights are allowed). Everyone can identify with a country but not a club team.

If a lot of athletes do not have significant ties to a country they represent, I feel the Olympic ideal is compromised. I quickly lose interest in the Olympics.

You might have a competition that is truly "open" and forget about all the flag waving. Of course that may mean less interest and money but at least you truly know who is the best athlete(s) at a particular sport.

Tyrolean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-22-2014, 02:07 PM
  #90
flyin_finn
Fighter Jet Pilot
 
flyin_finn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
I think players should be able to play for whatever nation they identify with.
Some of the US universities let students specify their gender as "self-identified".

It isn't that much of a stretch to see the parallelism.

flyin_finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.