HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXIV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2013, 02:02 PM
  #251
JoemAvs
Registered User
 
JoemAvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
If Mitchell was a pending UFA, then fine. Now it shouldn't even be a discussion. We managed to sign a good player for a steal at 1.1M. Yes, he isn't smart all the time and stuff like that. But that's why he is a bottom six player and that is why he is earning 1.1M and not more than that. Don't know why some seem to have so big expectations on him?

He is not perfect but still a steal at that price and a good player, and we need good players. Can't whine about that we suck if we actually want to trade away the bargains we find.

Yes he is a steal at that price. But he will fetch a 2nd+ in this market. There is a reason why Mitchell bounced around the NHL so far. If he is in our future longterm plans, we are in trouble. So get what you can for him.

JoemAvs is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:02 PM
  #252
Bubba Thudd
Moderator
#AvsNewAge
 
Bubba Thudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Avaland
Posts: 12,667
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
If Mitchell was a pending UFA, then fine. Now it shouldn't even be a discussion. We managed to sign a good player for a steal at 1.1M. Yes, he isn't smart all the time and stuff like that. But that's why he is a bottom six player and that is why he is earning 1.1M and not more than that. Don't know why some seem to have so big expectations on him?

He is not perfect but still a steal at that price and a good player, and we need good players. Can't whine about that we suck if we actually want to trade away the bargains we find.
Yes, he's earned the 1.1M this year. No doubt in my mind.
But the question is, will the player(s) we get from any pick(s) we get for him likely to be better than him? If so, you trade him. As others have said, this is likely the best we ever see from Johnny.

__________________
Call for the Priest, I'm Dying!
Bubba Thudd is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:04 PM
  #253
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Mitchell is anything but off limits. This is by all indications the best he will ever be. He's poor defensively, sucks as a center and can't make a pass to save his life. Just like when Svatos had a mini-resurgence and I wanted to trade him then, there is no shame in moving Mitchell for peak value on a rebuilding club.
I completely agree. Not sure he's really as crappy defensively or moving the puck as you've indicated, but I totally agree that he's been playing at a level he never has as a NHL player, and the Avs would be moving him at a time of his highest value. Do it.

ABasin is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:04 PM
  #254
RobinDIF
Reunite ROR & Landy!
 
RobinDIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Yes, he's earned the 1.1M this year. No doubt in my mind.
But the question is, will the player(s) we get from any pick(s) we get for him likely to be better than him? If so, you trade him. As others have said, this is likely the best we ever see from Johnny.
Highly doubt it. He would probably fetch a 2nd or a 3rd. How many of those turn into NHL-players? 5% maybe? And how many of them are better than Mitchell? And how many years will it take?

Don't see the point. Kobasew we aren't gonna re-sign. Totally diffrent question.

RobinDIF is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #255
henchman24
#ImagineAvs
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,953
vCash: 500
I'm not a big fan of trading Mitchell, but if a team came and made a good offer for him, I think you almost have to take it. The production he has now through ~30 games is what you should really expect of him through 80 games. He quite frankly isn't as good as he is playing now. The main issue then is how do you solve our center depth? Stastny might be gone at the draft leaving us Duchene and ROR plus Sgarbossa, Hishon, Malone, and Olver. We would need to get a #3C at very least, and could then stand to sign a 3 and 4.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #256
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
If Mitchell was a pending UFA, then fine. Now it shouldn't even be a discussion. We managed to sign a good player for a steal at 1.1M. Yes, he isn't smart all the time and stuff like that. But that's why he is a bottom six player and that is why he is earning 1.1M and not more than that. Don't know why some seem to have so big expectations on him?

He is not perfect but still a steal at that price and a good player, and we need good players. Can't whine about that we suck if we actually want to trade away the bargains we find.
And what if he reverts back to the Leafs or Rags version of Johnny Malkin (which is a pretty strong possibility) next season?

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:08 PM
  #257
DRL
Streak killers!
 
DRL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,160
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to DRL Send a message via Yahoo to DRL
With the success the avs draft recently, they need to stockpile as many picks as possible in this sellers market.

DRL is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #258
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
And what if he reverts back to the Leafs or Rags version of Johnny Malkin (which is a pretty strong possibility) next season?
What? What made him so bad for the Rags or Leafs? The Rangers would have kept him if they could.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  #259
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
And what if he reverts back to the Leafs or Rags version of Johnny Malkin (which is a pretty strong possibility) next season?
I'm not sure the word 'if' should be in that sentence.

The Avs picked up Mitchell as a 4th line player, which is what he is, and what he's been for his career. He's been scoring at a 2nd line pace, so even if they get a 3rd line return for him, it's a win.

Or does someone feel that Mitchell is in the Avs post-rebuild (whenever the hell that might be) plans?

ABasin is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  #260
RobinDIF
Reunite ROR & Landy!
 
RobinDIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
And what if he reverts back to the Leafs or Rags version of Johnny Malkin (which is a pretty strong possibility) next season?
Then he still costs 1.1M and is a decent bottom six player who can be moved at the trading deadline next season for a 5th or something.

Is the risk of Mitchell falling back to being a worse player really so big that we NEED to move him now to not miss out on a late 2nd or a 3rd? I don't know why some people here overrate the draft picks so much.

There is also a chance that Mitchell has developed into a better player than he was at Rangers or Toronto. What if we dump a player who finally has started to produce good as an NHL:er and he keeps doing that for several years and all we got was a late 2nd or a 3rd round pick for him?

RobinDIF is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:14 PM
  #261
ABasin
SelkeCaliber Defense
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
What? What made him so bad for the Rags or Leafs? The Rangers would have kept him if they could.
He wasn't at all bad with the Rangers, but he's been scoring at a 25-30 goal pace (not exactly sure where he is right now), and he's never once had even half of that as a NHL player. He's still the same tough player teams love to have for the playoffs, but this short season, he's added a scoring pace that he'll likely have a hard time repeating.

Sell high.

ABasin is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:15 PM
  #262
JoemAvs
Registered User
 
JoemAvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Then he still costs 1.1M and is a decent bottom six player who can be moved at the trading deadline next season for a 5th or something.

Is the risk of Mitchell falling back to being a worse player really so big that we NEED to move him now to not miss out on a late 2nd or a 3rd? I don't know why some people here overrate the draft picks so much.

There is also a chance that Mitchell has developed into a better player than he was at Rangers or Toronto. What if we dump a player who finally has started to produce good as an NHL:er and he keeps doing that for several years and all we got was a late 2nd or a 3rd round pick for him?
So you want to take a 5th next year but don't want a 2nd or atleast 3rd right now?
Ya there is a chance that he has developed. And there is a chance that the Avs make the playoffs this year. Just sell high on him please.

And if we dump him, what is the harm? It is not like we are contending this year. And if he is gone next deadline why bother?

JoemAvs is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #263
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
What? What made him so bad for the Rags or Leafs? The Rangers would have kept him if they could.
Did I say he was bad with Rags and Leafs? I'm simply pointing out that he's playing his best hockey of his entire NHL career right now and if I might add by a considerable margain.

As AB pointed out:

Sell high.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #264
RobinDIF
Reunite ROR & Landy!
 
RobinDIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
So you want to take a 5th next year but don't want a 2nd or atleast 3rd right now?
Ya there is a chance that he has developed. And there is a chance that the Avs make the playoffs this year. Just sell high on him please.

And if we dump him, what is the harm? It is not like we are contending this year. And if he is gone next deadline why bother?
Yes I would rather risk getting less for him next year and keep him. If he really is this good. Why would we want to sell him? I'm not saying we should sell him next year either even he drops.

If we should sell anyone on a high shouldn't we trade Parenteau as well? He is hot right now and was also crap a few years ago?

RobinDIF is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #265
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,210
vCash: 50
Just because players can fetch picks doesn't mean you have to trade your players for picks. Avs need players too. Hanging on to those that work out well seems like a good idea.

I have a hard time seeing a team make us an offer we can't refuse for Mitchell. He's performing well, is reasonably young and on a good contract. There is every reason to hang on to him.

Trading O'Byrne/Kobasew and possibly another of the #6-7 defenders make sense because of age, contract status and needs going forward.

Freudian is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:21 PM
  #266
Pierce Hawthorne
Formerly Avsare1
 
Pierce Hawthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Caverns of Draconis
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,726
vCash: 500
Mitchell is only 27 and until this year hasn't been given the opportunity to see what he can do in bigger role. So far he hasn't shown any signs of regressing back to his normal level of play through 30 games.

Its still very much possible that Mitchell was simply a bit of a late bloomer, and is capable of playing a 3rd line role or even 2nd line when injuries hit.


No reason to move the guy right now without knowing for certain what we have in him, he could be just like PAP.

Although again in saying that, if someone came to the Avs with an offer of a 1st + another pick or prospect, I don't think you could say no.

But if the best were being offered is a 2nd, whats the point in moving him for a pick that's only 40% to even make the NHL(and 40% is being generous).

Pierce Hawthorne is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:22 PM
  #267
henchman24
#ImagineAvs
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 10,953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Just because players can fetch picks doesn't mean you have to trade your players for picks. Avs need players too. Hanging on to those that work out well seems like a good idea.

I have a hard time seeing a team make us an offer we can't refuse for Mitchell. He's performing well, is reasonably young and on a good contract. There is every reason to hang on to him.

Trading O'Byrne/Kobasew and possibly another of the #6-7 defenders make sense because of age, contract status and needs going forward.
This plus maybe Jones is all I really expect to see. So 2 minimum (ROB Kobasew) and 4 maximum (Zanon/Hunwick Jones) trades before the deadline.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:24 PM
  #268
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Then he still costs 1.1M and is a decent bottom six player who can be moved at the trading deadline next season for a 5th or something.

Is the risk of Mitchell falling back to being a worse player really so big that we NEED to move him now to not miss out on a late 2nd or a 3rd? I don't know why some people here overrate the draft picks so much.
I'm sorry but did I even say what kind of a return we could get for Mitchell? Who's to say he doesn't get lumped up with someone else to bring an asset of higher value? We don't NEED to move him, but if someone offers someting good for him it would be pretty ill-advised to hang on to him in hope that this season is going to become a norm for him rather than a one off fluke year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
There is also a chance that Mitchell has developed into a better player than he was at Rangers or Toronto. What if we dump a player who finally has started to produce good as an NHL:er and he keeps doing that for several years and all we got was a late 2nd or a 3rd round pick for him?
There is, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it, since his play right now is awfuly similar to the way he played with Rags and Leafs except for one thing, his shot is finding the net more often than before.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #269
JoemAvs
Registered User
 
JoemAvs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Yes I would rather risk getting less for him next year and keep him. If he really is this good. Why would we want to sell him? I'm not saying we should sell him next year either even he drops.

If we should sell anyone on a high shouldn't we trade Parenteau as well? He is hot right now and was also crap a few years ago?
Rebuilding 1x1 :
Maximize your assets. How? Keep your core players (if reasonably young) at all costs and build around them. Sell off the expendable pieces for futures whenever you can. When July 1st comes around, restock on expendable pieces.
PAP is a core player going forward.
But would I sell him off if someone offers something crazy like a TOP6 Pick ? Hell yes I would. But ideally we want to keep him.

Mitchell? Expendable. Use to reload your prospect pool.

Go after some other 4th line guy in the offseason. Hell maybe even try to get McClement back if the Leafs are dumb enough to let him go.

I am not a fan of Mitchell. I don't care for offense from my 3rd/4th line center. I want him to pester and ideally shut down the opposing top guys. And most of all, I want him to be good at the PK. I am not a fan of using your top offensive players on PK. I loved the Winnik/ McClement duo. Hope they pick up someone in that mold instead of Mitchell next year.

Maximize your assets. Sell high. Benefit from it in the future.

JoemAvs is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:28 PM
  #270
Ivan13
Avs/Habs fan
 
Ivan13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 13,489
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Yes I would rather risk getting less for him next year and keep him. If he really is this good. Why would we want to sell him? I'm not saying we should sell him next year either even he drops.

If we should sell anyone on a high shouldn't we trade Parenteau as well? He is hot right now and was also crap a few years ago?
If you can't see the difference between PAP and Mitchell and if you'll resort to this kind of hyperbole there's really no point in discussing this any further.

Ivan13 is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #271
RobinDIF
Reunite ROR & Landy!
 
RobinDIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Rebuilding 1x1 :
Maximize your assets. How? Keep your core players (if reasonably young) at all costs and build around them. Sell off the expendable pieces for futures whenever you can. When July 1st comes around, restock on expendable pieces.
PAP is a core player going forward.
But would I sell him off if someone offers something crazy like a TOP6 Pick ? Hell yes I would. But ideally we want to keep him.

Mitchell? Expendable. Use to reload your prospect pool.

Go after some other 4th line guy in the offseason. Hell maybe even try to get McClement back if the Leafs are dumb enough to let him go.

I am not a fan of Mitchell. I don't care for offense from my 3rd/4th line center. I want him to pester and ideally shut down the opposing top guys. And most of all, I want him to be good at the PK. I am not a fan of using your top offensive players on PK. I loved the Winnik/ McClement duo. Hope they pick up someone in that mold instead of Mitchell next year.

Maximize your assets. Sell high. Benefit from it in the future.
If someone offers something very good, we should always consider it. It goes for every player. But for me, this should be the last season of the re-build. The pending UFA's Kobasew and O'Byrne could go. And the ones who has showed they are clearly not good enough, Zanon, Hunwick etc.

But other than that, I don't think we should actively try to move anyone who is actually doing something good for us. Next season I want to make a push for the playoffs. Not move some of our good players for a 2nd or 3rd who could turn into NHL-players in 3-4 years if we are lucky.

It's mainly because I feel that we should be done with this re-build now and Mitchell has a contract for next year so we have him locked up. If you want to move him out for a draft pick.. then fine. Your opinion. But I don't think you should complain about us being in this re-build anymore then. Which, if I'm not mistaken, you kinda have? Correct me if I'm wrong though. I get people here mixed up all the time.

RobinDIF is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #272
RobinDIF
Reunite ROR & Landy!
 
RobinDIF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 4,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
If you can't see the difference between PAP and Mitchell and if you'll resort to this kind of hyperbole there's really no point in discussing this any further.
I obviously do. But I was just pointing out that I dont think that "trade anyone who is good now who used to be bad" strategy is any good.

It would be kinda nice to hold on to a good player too. Draftpicks aren't that valuable.

RobinDIF is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #273
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,210
vCash: 50
What exactly do you think we'll get for Mitchell? Anyone think teams don't know what kind of player he is and will lose their minds because of 9 goals this year?

Add that it's generally frowned upon to sign a guy as a UFA and flip him first chance you get. I thought some posters here has a problem with how 'classless' Avs are as an organization.

The logic behind wanting to trade him seems very video gameish to me.

Freudian is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #274
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I'm not sure the word 'if' should be in that sentence.

The Avs picked up Mitchell as a 4th line player, which is what he is, and what he's been for his career. He's been scoring at a 2nd line pace, so even if they get a 3rd line return for him, it's a win.

Or does someone feel that Mitchell is in the Avs post-rebuild (whenever the hell that might be) plans?
I don't think we need to get rid of ALL our bottom-six role players. Mitchell was a great pickup. He was pencilled in as our 4th line center, the fact that he's been able to shoulder a far heavier load than expected is fantastic. No, not nearly as defensively sound as McClement, but he's made up for it in other ways. And he's only slightly below 50% in faceoffs this season. Looking at his advanced stats, our possession game actually improves with him on the ice.

In a cap-era NHL, you need players who provide value. Mitchell is exactly that. Kobasew, on the other hand, is a marginal NHLer who has played better than expected of late. That's the guy you send packing, not Mitchell.

Av-merican is offline  
Old
03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #275
Av-merican
@Av_merican
 
Av-merican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The Frozen Wasteland
Country: Scotland
Posts: 10,723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
If you can't see the difference between PAP and Mitchell and if you'll resort to this kind of hyperbole there's really no point in discussing this any further.
Thing is, your whole "revert" argument doesn't hold water. Mitchell was great for the Rangers last season, and he didn't suck for the Leafs either. NY lost a bunch of players simply because Rick Nash's ridiculous contract didn't allow them the cap room to retain those players.

Av-merican is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.