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2013 League Rumors/Trades/Signings Discussion IV

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:54 PM
  #276
bp13
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Well, they also added a whole bunch of sand paper too, that's for sure. How did essentially this group of B's (minus Pouliot + Pandolfo) fare against a similarly big and tough group (albeit incredibly less talented) in the playoffs last year?
Is this because last year had everything to do with matchups and nothing to do with fatigue from being defending Champs? This notion that something can be learned from last year's deadline is completely off the mark IMO. Defending champs don't repeat these days. Doesn't happen. The Cup run is too grueling, and losing in that series or the one after was a virtual certainty.

Further if your point was accurate, wouldn't they struggle against "sandpaper" teams this year? I'd argue the opposite is true. The Bruins lose to fast, skilled teams. Like Montreal and Pitt. Pitt adding grit is good for them, but it will not be an issue for Boston. Skill is an issue for Boston.

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03-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by reidy View Post
Fair enough, but that doesn't answer my question. Also, not sure Horton is a plus in any way shape or form right now.

Pittsburgh is already immensely talented. They just added two gritty character types to their lineup without sacrificing anything from their current roster.

Do you really think this Bruins club even with a healthy Chris Kelly can compete with them in a 7 game series? I don't.
My god, yes, easily. We've already been toe to toe with them in two games under suboptimal conditions. Do I expect to bury them? No not at all, but compete with them? Nothing over the past 2-3 seasons has shown me otherwise.

People underrate the hell out of the level of talent here given that fact that having a Norris and Vezina contender is in fact a talent. Nevermind that when our top 6 are playing well they can hang with anyone.

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03-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Did I say I think he'll sulk?

No, I said why are people expecting him to crank things up because he got moved to Pittsburgh?
My mistake, it sounded like it...

He will be playing with Neal and Malkin when he comes back, no? You think he might do a teeny bit better?

I'm glad that the Bruins didn't get either, but let's please not pretend the Penguins are a worse team now, or that they didn't improve...seems like that's what you are doing..

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03-25-2013, 02:56 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by reidy View Post
Fair enough, but that doesn't answer my question. Also, not sure Horton is a plus in any way shape or form right now.

Pittsburgh is already immensely talented. They just added two gritty character types to their lineup without sacrificing anything from their current roster.

Do you really think this Bruins club even with a healthy Chris Kelly can compete with them in a 7 game series? I don't.
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Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
Yes, I personally do.

I didn't think Washington could compete with the defending cup champs last year. I didn't think we would blow a 3-0 series lead to Philly. All it takes is a hot goalie, or one important player getting snakebit or hurt and then everything goes to ****.
I think you are both right. It's one of the reasons I'm personally not getting bent out of shape right now. The road to Cup seems to be a crapshoot of who stays healthy, has a hot goalie etc. Ateam just needs to get in and they have a shot.

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03-25-2013, 02:57 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Is this because last year had everything to do with matchups and nothing to do with fatigue from being defending Champs? This notion that something can be learned from last year's deadline is completely off the mark IMO. Defending champs don't repeat these days. Doesn't happen. The Cup run is too grueling, and losing in that series or the one after was a virtual certainty.

Further if your point was accurate, wouldn't they struggle against "sandpaper" teams this year? I'd argue the opposite is true. The Bruins lose to fast, skilled teams. Like Montreal and Pitt. Pitt adding grit is good for them, but it will not be an issue for Boston. Skill is an issue for Boston.
Right, which is why I'm advocating adding more skill to this team. I don't want to see "depth" moves. If Chiarelli makes another Rolston/Zanon-type play I'm going to be beside myself.

This Bruins team is not currently good enough (read: skilled) to compete with Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is more skilled than the Bruins and they just added two guys who even things up in the grit department. They've improved their odds of beating Boston in a 7 game series. The Bruins need to answer.

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03-25-2013, 02:57 PM
  #281
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Rolston was a solid bottom six forward. If he is in any kind of shape would love to have him back. Played decent on the Powerplay as well.
I'd rather have Rex out of retirement, but neither's gonna happen...

My real point is that I don't see the Bruins as going far this season principally due to the play or Horton and Lucic. I don't think they have the desire to embark upon a SC campaign. And, we have too little talent on this team to compete for an SC.

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03-25-2013, 02:57 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
My god, yes, easily. We've already been toe to toe with them in two games under suboptimal conditions. Do I expect to bury them? No not at all, but compete with them? Nothing over the past 2-3 seasons has shown me otherwise.

People underrate the hell out of the level of talent here given that fact that having a Norris and Vezina contender is in fact a talent. Nevermind that when our top 6 are playing well they can hang with anyone.
I agree, but the Pens have a bunch of champions over there as well, including their goalie. I think the series goes either way, in 7 games wihen both are healthy...

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03-25-2013, 02:58 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
My mistake, it sounded like it...

He will be playing with Neal and Malkin when he comes back, no? You think he might do a teeny bit better?

I'm glad that the Bruins didn't get either, but let's please not pretend the Penguins are a worse team now...seems like that's what you are doing..
Worse? No. Better? Not by much. At least IMO. I wouldn't have been excited about a Morrow trade other than the possibility of it being a scratch ticket.

I'd be better playing with Malkin and Neal than my usual linemates too, doesn't mean the team will be better.

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03-25-2013, 02:59 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by reidy View Post
Fair enough, but that doesn't answer my question. Also, not sure Horton is a plus in any way shape or form right now.

Pittsburgh is already immensely talented. They just added two gritty character types to their lineup without sacrificing anything from their current roster.

Do you really think this Bruins club even with a healthy Chris Kelly can compete with them in a 7 game series? I don't.
Yup. In fact, a 7 game series is exactly the right scenario for Boston. The Bruins have better defense and better goaltending. When you can roll 4 lines and wear a team down over two weeks, I'll take Boston against anybody. You are wildly exaggerating the gap between these teams. Wildly. The Bruins lost a 2 goal lead in the third on a b2b scenario, and then by one goal in a game the Bruins owned for half of it. To paint that as some sort of nightmare matchup is greatly underrating the Bruins.

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03-25-2013, 02:59 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by TheReal13Linseman View Post
I'd rather have Rex out of retirement, but neither's gonna happen...

My real point is that I don't see the Bruins as going far this season principally due to the play or Horton and Lucic. I don't think they have the desire to embark upon a SC campaign. And, we have too little talent on this team to compete for an SC.
I'm a lot less worried about Horton and Lucic than the giant blackhole we know as the 3rd line.

There is plenty of talent on this team. Enough to win a Championship with the right deadline moves.

If Chiarelli doesn't try to go for it, then what's the point?

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03-25-2013, 02:59 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
My mistake, it sounded like it...

He will be playing with Neal and Malkin when he comes back, no? You think he might do a teeny bit better?

I'm glad that the Bruins didn't get either, but let's please not pretend the Penguins are a worse team now, or that they didn't improve...seems like that's what you are doing..
He will be better.

Whoever they move off that line (Beau Bennett I believe) will be worse though. It's give and take. And I personally think they would have been better off keeping Bennett and his .5 ppg on an ELC on that line while using their excess assets and available cap space to actually address their D-problems (Murray does not do that at all). Maybe a Bouwmeester or something (just spitballing, the who isn't really important to the point I'm making...as long as it is a clear upgrade.

I really appreciate this debate being relatively civil. I'm legitimately having a good time hearing others feedback, even if I don't necessarily agree with it

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03-25-2013, 03:00 PM
  #287
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The fact that Chia apparently offered Dallas Koko+2nd for Morrow, I have a feeling he is willing to overpay. Which worries me. I'm not entirely off on overpaying slightly on Iginla, as long as it's not Spooner involved.

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03-25-2013, 03:00 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
Worse? No. Better? Not by much. At least IMO. I wouldn't have been excited about a Morrow trade other than the possibility of it being a scratch ticket.

I'd be better playing with Malkin and Neal than my usual linemates too, doesn't mean the team will be better.
So Morrow makes their 2nd line better, but making one line better doesn't make the team better. Is that what you're saying?

Because I'd like you to take a look at the Bruins' 3rd line...

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03-25-2013, 03:00 PM
  #289
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I agree, but the Pens have a bunch of champions over there as well, including their goalie. I think the series goes either way, in 7 games wihen both are healthy...
Sure, which honestly is all you can ask. There's not much you're realistically going to do to go head and shoulders over the Pens and overpaying for depth guys certainly isn't the way to go about it.

Also, their D and Goalie may be "champions" but they aren't as talented back there and that counts.

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03-25-2013, 03:00 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by CDJ View Post
He will be better.

Whoever they move off that line (Beau Bennett I believe) will be worse though. It's give and take. And I personally think they would have been better off keeping Bennett and his .5 ppg on an ELC on that line while using their excess assets and available cap space to actually address their D-problems (Murray does not do that at all). Maybe a Bouwmeester or something (just spitballing, the who isn't really important to the point I'm making...as long as it is a clear upgrade)
J-Bo is a trainwreck on D, I'm not sure their is a softer D-man out there.

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03-25-2013, 03:02 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by HortonHearsAWoo View Post
So Morrow makes their 2nd line better, but making one line better doesn't make the team better. Is that what you're saying?

Because I'd like you to take a look at the Bruins' 3rd line...
Pretty sure I never said Morrow makes their 2nd line better, because I don't think he does.

And if Claude could have ever been persuaded to play Kelly-Spooner-Peverley, I don't think he'd have made that line better either.

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03-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #292
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Right, which is why I'm advocating adding more skill to this team. I don't want to see "depth" moves. If Chiarelli makes another Rolston/Zanon-type play I'm going to be beside myself.

This Bruins team is not currently good enough (read: skilled) to compete with Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is more skilled than the Bruins and they just added two guys who even things up in the grit department. They've improved their odds of beating Boston in a 7 game series. The Bruins need to answer.
No my point is they struggle HANDLING skill. Sure they could use more, but IMO the bigger issue is that they are seeing subpar play from their top d-men thanks to having to play too many minutes to compensate for injuries, a rookie, and a couple struggling vets. Moreover, they have always been exposed by two-man forechecks because their D is slow and not great with the puck. I argue this team needs a top 4 dman more than anything.

I won't argue the Bruins need to answer, they do. But this notion that there's a huge gap between the teams now is just wrong.

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03-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #293
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For a fan base that understands how physical play can alter the outcome of games I'm surprised at how many folks around here don't see the value in the two guys the Penguins just added. This was a team that was already fairly gritty with guys like Cooke, Glass, Adams, Dupuis and now they've added both Morrow and Murray.

To put it in perspective Pittsburghs top 6 forwards in hits are:
Glass (81)
Kunitz (78)
Cooke (66)
Dupuis (65)
Morrow (48)
Neal (46)

Boston's are:
Lucic (104)
Thornton (48)
Campbell (39)
Kelly (28)
Paille (27)
Horton (26)

Now they've also gone out and added Murray to their blueline.

Not world beaters, but smart moves on Shero's part and moves that should make them harder to beat in a 7 game series where they can wear you down.

Kunitz and Dupuis stand out for me here. They're on the top line with Crosby, and they hit. No wonder they're so good. Hitting creates space, and Crosby helps too.

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03-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
I'm a lot less worried about Horton and Lucic than the giant blackhole we know as the 3rd line.

There is plenty of talent on this team. Enough to win a Championship with the right deadline moves.

If Chiarelli doesn't try to go for it, then what's the point?
Just not seeing a lot of heart from this team this year. I think it's incumbent upon a GM to recognize when it's better to fold them than to hold them in a given year.

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03-25-2013, 03:04 PM
  #295
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J-Bo is a trainwreck on D, I'm not sure their is a softer D-man out there.
Like I said, I was just spitballing names (he was the first to pop to mind out of those who might be available).

Anyways, he is a good player who can log huge minutes and skate with the best of him. I don't give a **** if he doesn't hit. You pair him with Orpik and you might have one of the better tandems in the league.

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03-25-2013, 03:04 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by HortonHearsAWoo View Post
So Morrow makes their 2nd line better, but making one line better doesn't make the team better. Is that what you're saying?

Because I'd like you to take a look at the Bruins' 3rd line...
On the positive side, Morrow couldn't sniff our second line.

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03-25-2013, 03:05 PM
  #297
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Just not seeing a lot of heart from this team this year. I think it's incumbent upon a GM to recognize when it's better to fold them than to hold them in a given year.
I don't think heart is the problem here. This team has the ability to go all the way. They just need that nudge from their GM to make it happen.

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03-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by CupChamps2011 View Post
The fact that Chia apparently offered Dallas Koko+2nd for Morrow, I have a feeling he is willing to overpay. Which worries me. I'm not entirely off on overpaying slightly on Iginla, as long as it's not Spooner involved.
Pittsburgh got back a 3rd with Morrow and gave up a 5th plus the D...

Why do people try to rip the Bruins off? Are our prospects not as good as we think? Do they think Chia is dumb?

Koko plus a 2nd for Morrow is ridiculous. Koko and a 5th for Morrow and a 3rd is more like it.

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03-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by TheReal13Linseman View Post
Just not seeing a lot of heart from this team this year. I think it's incumbent upon a GM to recognize when it's better to fold them than to hold them in a given year.
The amount of assets Chiarelli could acquire for Horton in this market will help set up the team to continue to remain competitive year after year.

B. Morrow got J. Morrow and a swap of mid-round picks. Horton could get a J. Morrow level prospect and probably a 1st.

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03-25-2013, 03:07 PM
  #300
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Like I said, I was just spitballing names (he was the first to pop to mind out of those who might be available).

Anyways, he is a good player who can log huge minutes and skate with the best of him. I don't give a **** if he doesn't hit. You pair him with Orpik and you might have one of the better tandems in the league.
Being soft reaches a lot farther than just not hitting.

But anyways, I don't think the guys they added are world beaters or anything, but Shero ID'd a need and addressed it. We know what the Bruins need, I hope Chiarelli addresses those too.

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