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Old
03-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #801
sandysan
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
If the Habs are top 3 in the East and healthy at the trade deadline and Bergevin does nothing when will be the right time to make a playoff push ? Does the Habs must win all 82 games before being consider a Stanley cup contender ?

- Markov, Gionta and Ryder are healthy and they will not get younger and better
- Pacioretty, Eller, Gally, Galchenyuk and Plekanec are ready to perform and will be in the top 9 for a long time.
- Emelin, Subban, Diaz and Eller will have a big pay raise soon

- Dumont, White, Moen, Desharnais, Leblanc, Pateryn, Kristo, the first round pick and the secound round picks are good assets that Bergevin could use to add a great top 6 froward like Igilna, Clarkson, Erickson, Pominville or Vanek.

For some reason we are not on the teams that iginla will waive his ntc for. Erickson is someone I can pass on along with pominville.
That leaves Clarkson and Vanek. I'd like both but the word is that clarkson will likely resign with the devils which leaves Vanek.

I'd love thomas vanek, but your not going to get him for any real combinantion of the players you listed above without having to throw in a bunch of picks. his cap hit is like 7 million for next season. and he has a lower body injury, I suspect he will be back to the sabres soon, but if they are going into tank more its far better to bring him back slow.

just because the pens are making some somewhat lateral moves, does not mean we have to follow them. I'm actually more worried that clowe or iginla ends up on the bruins then seeding for the playoffs will define the fates of a lot of teams.

yes ryder is getting older, but we can walk with no consequences. We cant ship Gionta anywhere and Markov is worth way more to us than anyother team because of his glass knees. yes subban and eller will be getting more ( subban>>eller) but emelin and diaz are not going to break the bank.

if montreal has to do something, I'd hope they would get more sandpaper than what vanek would bring ( again I like him, hes super talented but I'm not sure he's what the habs need this year or next)

I'm actually happy that murray costs two seconds ( or a second and another one conditional on him resigning) because the cost for the players you mentioned just went up A LOT and the idea of bringing them in as rent a players to help with a cup run just got a lot more expensive. im not sure that clowe or iginla to the bruins makes them cup favorites or not, but it makes montreal's playoff course a whole lot more difficult.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
If the Habs are top 3 in the East and healthy at the trade deadline and Bergevin does nothing when will be the right time to make a playoff push ? Does the Habs must win all 82 games before being consider a Stanley cup contender ?
For me, it will be when Galchenyuk (or someone else) is a legit #1 C.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #803
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Old
03-25-2013, 02:16 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Gauthier spent his entire career as a GM stockpiling 2nd round picks.
We should honor his effort by cashing in one or two for a Cup run.

Who do you suggest we get on the backend at the deadline? Or would you just stand pat?
Gauthier gave away 3 2nd rounders in his first year on the job. He's hardly a hoarder of picks.

If Montreal are on an equal footing with PIT before these deals I don't see that as having dramatically changed after the deals.

The biggest boost for Montreal would be for Price to start living up to his potential and outplay his counterpart.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #805
Mario Lemieux fan 66
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Our last 2nd round picks are PK Subban, Danny Kristo, Sebastian Collberg and Dalton Thrower with 3 years in there where we traded them away.

Id rather not trade them for depth players when Timmins can turn them into these players.
I am also not a big fan of trading high pick for depth player but i am not against trading high pick for impact player. People will have to realize that not all of our prospects will play for the Habs and that one day or another Bergevin will have to make his move to make the Habs a Stanley Cup contender.

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03-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
I am also not a big fan of trading high pick for depth player but i am not against trading high pick for impact player. People will have to realize that not all of our prospects will play for the Habs and that one day or another Bergevin will have to make his move to make the Habs a Stanley Cup contender.
Yeah I get that, but who would you rather have Collberg and Thrower in the pipe, or Douglass Murray playing 8-10 mins a night?

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03-25-2013, 02:20 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Not sure if you understand french, but Lavoie basically made it seem like he won't be traded in that video.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:27 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
For me, it will be when Galchenyuk (or someone else) is a legit #1 C.
So we wait until Galchenyuk put 75 + points ? He may never produces at that rate, who knows. If we wait 2 or 3 years, by then Markov will be near the end as Gionta and the team depth will probably be less good with the pay raise of Subban, Eller, etc.

I understand that the Habs have not a gamebreaker player like Kane, Crosby or Malkin but they certainly have the pieces to get one (Desharnais or Eller+ Diaz or Beaulieu+ Kristo or Leblanc+ a first round pick).

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03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Mario Lemieux fan 66 View Post
So we wait until Galchenyuk put 75 + points ? He may never produces at that rate, who knows. If we wait 2 or 3 years, by then Markov will be near the end as Gionta and the team depth will probably be less good with the pay raise of Subban, Eller, etc.

I understand that the Habs have not a gamebreaker player like Kane, Crosby or Malkin but they certainly have the pieces to get one (Desharnais or Eller+ Diaz or Beaulieu+ Kristo or Leblanc+ a first round pick).
Yes, we wait until Galchenyuk is a 75+ point player before going nuts for rentals like PIT is and it appears Bergevin will too based on his comments about not going for rentals last week and building for the future since he took over. The history of SC champs demonstrates you need a #1 C on your roster.

And you won't get a legit gamebreaker for any of those assets you talk about unless you trade 4 or 5 in a package, and I don't see which gamebreaker is available. (Iginla and Gaborik are not gambreakers right now. I doubt Vanek is available)

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:41 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Gauthier gave away 3 2nd rounders in his first year on the job. He's hardly a hoarder of picks.

If Montreal are on an equal footing with PIT before these deals I don't see that as having dramatically changed after the deals.

The biggest boost for Montreal would be for Price to start living up to his potential and outplay his counterpart.
When did Gauthier trade away all these picks? Wisniewski is the only one I can recall.

He left Bergevin with 5 2nd rounders in 2012 and 2013 when he left.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:45 PM
  #811
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When did Gauthier trade away all these picks? Wisniewski is the only one I can recall.
Moore for our 2nd in 2011 and trading our 2nd in 2010 to move up for Tinordi would be the other 2.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:45 PM
  #812
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FWIW the 2014 2nd rounder in the Murray trade is conditional. If the Pens don't reach the ECF or fail to re-sign Murray, it's a 2014 3rd.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:47 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Moore for our 2nd in 2011 and trading our 2nd in 2010 to move up for Tinordi would be the other 2.
Two 5th rounders for Mara and Sopel as well. Before that, Gainey also traded a 2nd to get Schneider. The year before, it was a 1st for Tanguay... And then a 2nd for Robert Lang.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:50 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Not sure if you understand french, but Lavoie basically made it seem like he won't be traded in that video.
Lavoie is about as good as Eklund unless he's stealing the news from Bob McKenzie (e5)

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #815
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Rangers bringing Zuccarello back from the KHL.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:02 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Bask View Post
Lavoie is about as good as Eklund unless he's stealing the news from Bob McKenzie (e5)
Except when Bob McKenzie uses Lavoie as a source, which happens quite often if you follow both on twitter.

Comparing Lavoie to Eklund is like comparing apples to a rotted pumpkin in mid-November.

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03-25-2013, 03:04 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Moore for our 2nd in 2011 and trading our 2nd in 2010 to move up for Tinordi would be the other 2.
Moving up in the 1st round isn't on par with trading a pick for a rental player. Tinordi will be around for 5-10 years.

So Gauthier traded away 2 2nds for rentals and got 3 back.

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03-25-2013, 03:05 PM
  #818
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Not even relevant. We need a big stay at home Dman.

Not an idiotic multi-player trade.
Completely relevant when you suggest this team has been conservative. Habs have traded 2007 1st (aka McDonagh), 2008 1st, two 2009 2nd, two 2010 2nd, 2011 2nd from 2008 summer to 2011 summer.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:05 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Bask View Post
Lavoie is about as good as Eklund unless he's stealing the news from Bob McKenzie (e5)
That's not true at all, Lavoie is reliable.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Our last 2nd round picks are PK Subban, Danny Kristo, Sebastian Collberg and Dalton Thrower with 3 years in there where we traded them away.

Id rather not trade them for depth players when Timmins can turn them into these players.
Looks good on paper. Only one is on the ice.

The three that you mentioned are years away from being impact players. And a 2nd round 2014 player is even farther away.

It does appear though that we are willing to throw this year away.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:06 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Bask View Post
Lavoie is about as good as Eklund unless he's stealing the news from Bob McKenzie (e5)
Lavoie is usually on the ball, not sure how you can compare him to Eklund(who posts crap and drops "names" just to get hits). Lavoie is the most "plugged in" Habs journalist.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
  #822
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So the Sharks give up on the playoffs?

Or Murray is just washed up?

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03-25-2013, 03:10 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Completely relevant when you suggest this team has been conservative. Habs have traded 2007 1st (aka McDonagh), 2008 1st, two 2009 2nd, two 2010 2nd, 2011 2nd from 2008 summer to 2011 summer.
Irrelevant still. We need to add a physical D man, not engage in a multi-player deal. Especially since I am referring to acquiring players at the deadline.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:12 PM
  #824
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So the Sharks give up on the playoffs?

Or Murray is just washed up?
They still have 7 D's and a pretty solid unit on paper...

Boyle
Burns
Vlasic
Stuart
Demers
Braun
The surprising Irwin

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03-25-2013, 03:16 PM
  #825
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Looks good on paper. Only one is on the ice.

The three that you mentioned are years away from being impact players. And a 2nd round 2014 player is even farther away.

It does appear though that we are willing to throw this year away.
I totally agree with you that the Habs have been handed an opportunity to compete this year by things breaking their way.

What I don't see is the guys that would have a big enough impact on how good the team will be to be worth acquiring. There are no Marian Hossa's this year. Even Iginla has declined to a uni-dimensional sniper rather than the great all round player he once was.

For example, the guys the Penguins got with 2 2nd rounders and a Beaulieu equivalent are more name than player at this point.

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