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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XXXIV

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #276
JoemAvs
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
If someone offers something very good, we should always consider it. It goes for every player. But for me, this should be the last season of the re-build. The pending UFA's Kobasew and O'Byrne could go. And the ones who has showed they are clearly not good enough, Zanon, Hunwick etc.

But other than that, I don't think we should actively try to move anyone who is actually doing something good for us. Next season I want to make a push for the playoffs. Not move some of our good players for a 2nd or 3rd who could turn into NHL-players in 3-4 years if we are lucky.

It's mainly because I feel that we should be done with this re-build now and Mitchell has a contract for next year so we have him locked up. If you want to move him out for a draft pick.. then fine. Your opinion. But I don't think you should complain about us being in this re-build anymore then. Which, if I'm not mistaken, you kinda have? Correct me if I'm wrong though. I get people here mixed up all the time.
That is the problem. You "feel" we should be done with this rebuild.
Newsflash. We are not.
Will we be better next year under another coach? Highly likely.
Will we be a serious playoff contender in the future? We could if our young guns pan out.
Can we just skip a few steps in the rebuilding process because it is painful to watch as a fan? No we certainly can not and should not.
Look at our center situation. ROR and Stastny are big questionmarks going forward.
Will they be traded or will they be re-signed? We will have to decide on this matter in the offseason. Depending on what we do there and on defense (UFA D-pool is beyond catastrophic), we are certainly not a lock for the playoffs next year.
If everything goes right, we might contend for the wild card spot in our new division.
I myself believe that we won't make it next year. The year after could be the year if our management plays it cards right.

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03-25-2013, 02:40 PM
  #277
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Thing is, your whole "revert" argument doesn't hold water. Mitchell was great for the Rangers last season, and he didn't suck for the Leafs either. NY lost a bunch of players simply because Rick Nash's ridiculous contract didn't allow them the cap room to retain those players.
He was? Based on what if I might ask?

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03-25-2013, 02:41 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
That is the problem. You "feel" we should be done with this rebuild.
Newsflash. We are not.
Will we be better next year under another coach? Highly likely.
Will we be a serious playoff contender in the future? We could if our young guns pan out.
Can we just skip a few steps in the rebuilding process because it is painful to watch as a fan? No we certainly can not and should not.
Look at our center situation. ROR and Stastny are big questionmarks going forward.
Will they be traded or will they be re-signed? We will have to decide on this matter in the offseason. Depending on what we do there and on defense (UFA D-pool is beyond catastrophic), we are certainly not a lock for the playoffs next year.
If everything goes right, we might contend for the wild card spot in our new division.
I myself believe that we won't make it next year. The year after could be the year if our management plays it cards right.
We will find out this summer if we are. If we go for one or two free agents and put some salary into them. Hopefully two defenseman. Then I guess the Avs feel we are.

It's very likely though they don't have high hopes of making the playoffs next year. That would be fine by me too. I was just saying what I would do.

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03-25-2013, 02:43 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
He was? Based on what if I might ask?
I've seen several Rangers-fan saying it was stupid to let him go. Especially when they lost Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Anisimov and Prust. He is a solid bottom six player.

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03-25-2013, 02:44 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
We will find out this summer if we are. If we go for one or two free agents and put some salary into them. Hopefully two defenseman. Then I guess the Avs feel we are.

It's very likely though they don't have high hopes of making the playoffs next year. That would be fine by me too. I was just saying what I would do.
There is nothing to put salary into in Free Agency. Aside from the fact that I don't think that we will spend to the cap unless we make the playoffs, there is just no one worth spending on this year.
ROB is arguably a TOP 5 UFA option on defense.
Streit stays with NYI and if Smid does not re-sign with EDM, he will command 4.5-5 M+. And he is never worth that.
I agree with you Freud that it is not very pleasant to sell off recent signings but in the wake of the actual situation of the Avalanche it could become a necessity. And we are a damn classless organisation. So why stop where it would actually benefit us for once?

And it is not like any of them would really complain that long about getting traded from a bottom 3 team to a playoff team.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:45 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
He was? Based on what if I might ask?
http://snyrangersblog.com/advanced-s...season-part-1/

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How about those Relative Corsi ratings for 4th liners John Mitchell and Mike Rupp? Two players many Rangers fans could do without on next year’s team posted very strong Relative Corsi ratings against tough competition. This suggests Mitchell and Rupp were two of the better players in terms of puck possession and they did so while lining up against some of the opposition’s top players.
The article goes on to blast guys like Brian Boyle, who has played so abysmally he's actually been on the ice for all of three Rangers goals this season. Three.

I really, really don't get the Johnny Malkin hate. Yes, he has flaws in his game. Big ones. Most guys who are career 3rd/4th liners do. But it didn't cost a thing to acquire him, and his contract is dirt cheap with a minimal cap hit. How could anyone be wanting to move a guy like this? You're not going to get better value that what he currently brings to the team, I guarantee you.

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03-25-2013, 02:46 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
I've seen several Rangers-fan saying it was stupid to let him go. Especially when they lost Dubinsky, Fedotenko, Anisimov and Prust. He is a solid bottom six player.
And I've seen several Rags fans who were happy he's gone because that meant no more Johnny Malkin on the PP and no more of his attempts of deking past the whole opposing team.

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03-25-2013, 02:49 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
And I've seen several Rags fans who were happy he's gone because that meant no more Johnny Malkin on the PP and no more of his attempts of deking past the whole opposing team.
Really? A career bottom-six forward is put on the PP on a team with star talent all over the place and fans are complaining about Mitchell!? I'd say those fans are morons. Are they thrilled to death the team decided to keep Brian Boyle?

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03-25-2013, 02:50 PM
  #284
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Minus the fact that I think Mitchell is very good at both center and wing, I think people are missing a key ingredient to the likelihood of him being dealt.

The Avs absolutely love his $1.1M price tag. He's the kind of guy they'll keep around until after next season, and then low ball him and let him walk.

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03-25-2013, 02:51 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I really, really don't get the Johnny Malkin hate. Yes, he has flaws in his game. Big ones. Most guys who are career 3rd/4th liners do. But it didn't cost a thing to acquire him, and his contract is dirt cheap with a minimal cap hit. How could anyone be wanting to move a guy like this? You're not going to get better value that what he currently brings to the team, I guarantee you.
I couldn't agree more. Part of the problem here is that Mitchell has the stigma of HF groupthink working against him. Toronto fans relentlessly blasted him and since they're the largest and most vocal fanbase, it basically gets repeated over and over that he's a bum until people start to believe it. Truth is, he was a very good bang for your buck signing. He's already contributed more than anyone thought he would at minimal cap hit.

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03-25-2013, 02:51 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Minus the fact that I think Mitchell is very good at both center and wing, and while he's a shoot first kind of guy, he has made a few nice passes on the rush this year, I think people are missing a key ingredient to the likelihood of him being dealt.

The Avs absolutely love his $1.1M price tag. He's the kind of guy they'll keep around until after next season, and then low ball him and let him walk.
Unfortunately, this is true.

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03-25-2013, 02:52 PM
  #287
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Both sides of the Mitchell argument are right in areas. He shouldn't be untouchable, but he shouldn't be traded just for the sake of trading him. If Chicago decided that they needed the depth and got the stupid urge to send Teravainen our way for Mitchell you do the deal. If anybody offers a 3rd, you should just keep Mitchell and see how he does next year. He is young enough and has enough talent that he could be on this team for 4-5 years, no sense trading him off for scraps before we know if we want to keep him around.

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03-25-2013, 02:53 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
The Avs absolutely love his $1.1M price tag. He's the kind of guy they'll keep around until after next season, and then low ball him and let him walk.
Damnit. When you're right, you're right.

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03-25-2013, 02:54 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Both sides of the Mitchell argument are right in areas. He shouldn't be untouchable, but he shouldn't be traded just for the sake of trading him. If Chicago decided that they needed the depth and got the stupid urge to send Teravainen our way for Mitchell you do the deal. If anybody offers a 3rd, you should just keep Mitchell and see how he does next year.
Good post. And what I think the correct approach should be. Though I'd probably move him for a 3rd. But not for a late round pick.

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03-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Minus the fact that I think Mitchell is very good at both center and wing, I think people are missing a key ingredient to the likelihood of him being dealt.

The Avs absolutely love his $1.1M price tag. He's the kind of guy they'll keep around until after next season, and then low ball him and let him walk.
It is like you are looking into the future. This is exactly what will happen.

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03-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
http://snyrangersblog.com/advanced-s...season-part-1/



The article goes on to blast guys like Brian Boyle, who has played so abysmally he's actually been on the ice for all of three Rangers goals this season. Three.

I really, really don't get the Johnny Malkin hate. Yes, he has flaws in his game. Big ones. Most guys who are career 3rd/4th liners do. But it didn't cost a thing to acquire him, and his contract is dirt cheap with a minimal cap hit. How could anyone be wanting to move a guy like this? You're not going to get better value that what he currently brings to the team, I guarantee you.
What hate? I'm honestly amazed that we can't have a single discussion going on around here without someone being labeled as a ''hater''.

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03-25-2013, 02:56 PM
  #292
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Just for the record, I don't think there is any "Johnny Malkin hate" from anyone here. You don't have to hate, or even dislike, a player to want to sell high, especially when you're a rebuilding team.

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03-25-2013, 02:58 PM
  #293
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Really? A career bottom-six forward is put on the PP on a team with star talent all over the place and fans are complaining about Mitchell!? I'd say those fans are morons. Are they thrilled to death the team decided to keep Brian Boyle?
Check out the ''Mitchell signs with the Colorado Avalanche'' if you want to see a lot of face plam worthy posts.

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03-25-2013, 03:05 PM
  #294
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What hate? I'm honestly amazed that we can't have a single discussion going on around here without someone being labeled as a ''hater''.
Fair enough, didn't mean to generalize. I just don't get the arguments against him, that's all. I don't get your argument that he will "revert" to the player he was in Toronto and New York. If he does, that's fine, that guy was a good hockey player.

I also don't buy the arguments that he can't play center and can't pass. Okay, he's not a star in either category, but I don't see why he has to be.

Trust me when I say the Rangers don't know jack **** when it comes to valuing role players. Toronto is the same.

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03-25-2013, 03:12 PM
  #295
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If we can re-sign Kobasew at a decent price, I wouldn't trade him either. Draft picks are very overrated around here and these cheap bottom six players aren't easy to replace. If they are good in the lockerroom and work out well on the ice and accept their role on the team. They bring much more than a 3rd round pick for example. Those players aren't as easy to replace as it seems.

Now, however, I dont think we want to re-sign Kobasew, or he will ask for too much money, in that case. Trade him. Otherwise it's poor assetmanagement.

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03-25-2013, 03:17 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
If we can re-sign Kobasew at a decent price, I wouldn't trade him either. Draft picks are very overrated around here and these cheap bottom six players aren't easy to replace. If they are good in the lockerroom and work out well on the ice and accept their role on the team. They bring much more than a 3rd round pick for example. Those players aren't as easy to replace as it seems.

Now, however, I dont think we want to re-sign Kobasew, or he will ask for too much money, in that case. Trade him. Otherwise it's poor assetmanagement.
I tend to agree with this, but we have plenty of good bottom 6 players that are signed or will only be RFAs for the next few seasons. Assuming Stastny is gone and Mitchell stays. Getting rid of Kobasew wouldn't really hurt us at all.

Palushaj-Mitchell-Downie/Jones
McLeod-Olver-Bordy

For next year you could sign somebody like a Ryan Jones or Peter Regin for a bottom 6 spot and make Olver and Bordy the 12/13th forward... or bring Malone up. Or if you wanted to run 3 scoring lines, bring up Sgarbossa to center Mitchell and Downie/Jones. There are plenty of options there even with trading Kobasew.

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03-25-2013, 03:18 PM
  #297
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Fair enough, didn't mean to generalize. I just don't get the arguments against him, that's all. I don't get your argument that he will "revert" to the player he was in Toronto and New York. If he does, that's fine, that guy was a good hockey player.

I also don't buy the arguments that he can't play center and can't pass. Okay, he's not a star in either category, but I don't see why he has to be.

Trust me when I say the Rangers don't know jack **** when it comes to valuing role players. Toronto is the same.
No hard feelings from my side of things.

Anyway I was just trying to say that they should consider moving Mitchell if they don't have him in their long term plans because his value is most likely at its highest right now, if they think they should hang on to him for a longer period of time that goes beyond his current contract I have absolutely no problem with that.

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03-25-2013, 03:18 PM
  #298
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To be fair, I do hate the role he is given under Sacco. Until Ryan cameback the guy was given responsibilities he didn't perform in. PK? Hah, McLeod was better, Jones too. He kills plays with his hotdog stick handling efforts and the coaching staff eats it up like candy.

He has a good shot and he's a team guy, but he's by no means irreplaceable and is not worth falling on a grenade over to keep. Get a 2nd rounder in a deep draft, promote Sgarbossa and let Pracey do his job. We will get an asset that competes on this team just in time for our contention status out of the 2nd round this draft. Look at Boston with guys like Marchand (early 3rd) or Caron (late 1st).

Mitchell if he keeps it up won't be back after next season. If he doesn't keep it up we won't get anything better for him than we will now.

What is there to lose?

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:24 PM
  #299
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I tend to agree with this, but we have plenty of good bottom 6 players that are signed or will only be RFAs for the next few seasons. Assuming Stastny is gone and Mitchell stays. Getting rid of Kobasew wouldn't really hurt us at all.

Palushaj-Mitchell-Downie/Jones
McLeod-Olver-Bordy

For next year you could sign somebody like a Ryan Jones or Peter Regin for a bottom 6 spot and make Olver and Bordy the 12/13th forward... or bring Malone up. Or if you wanted to run 3 scoring lines, bring up Sgarbossa to center Mitchell and Downie/Jones. There are plenty of options there even with trading Kobasew.
Speaking of Bordy, some Habs-fans seems really high on him just cause he is from Montreal. I wonder what he could get us back.

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03-25-2013, 03:29 PM
  #300
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No hard feeling from my side of things.

Anyway I was just trying to say that they should consider moving Mitchell if they don't have him in their long term plans because his value is most likely at its highest right now, if they think they should hang on to him for a longer period of time that goes beyond his current contract I have absolutely no problem with that.
Well I certainly won't argue that. I think you should always consider offers for any player no matter what. No one on this team is untouchable, certainly not a 4th line center. That said, I just don't think you get rid of a guy like that for a pick, even if you're holding onto him for just next year.

As for Kobasew, sorry, I don't consider him to be more than an average-to-below-average NHLer who just happened to hit a hot streak at the right time. I don't believe we can find a good replacement for Mitchell very easily. I do believe we already have possible replacements for Kobasew.

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